How do we identify the ego?

Self-preservation is hardwired - there's little you can do about it except like in the movie where the guy manning a nuclear power station is :meh: at the multiple alarms going off all around him.

Ego considers itself to be priority #1. Please put the oxygen mask on yourself before you try to be the goody-two-shoes on the doomed plane! Medici, cura te ipsum, first set your own house in order! I'm looking for a sick doctor! I'm in search of a bad cop! I'm dying to meet the sinner saint! :snicker:

Quoting TiredThinker

How do we know what part of us puts self preservation above all else?

We know, I suspect, by our fear, disgust, hunger-thirst, lust, anger reflexes.

What part is self identity?

It's the embodied continuity of autobiographical memories and social conditioning which constitutes a person's self-model.

Is there anything in us that isn't ego?

Everything "isn't ego" except the prefrontal cortex (which is why a prefrontal lobotomy renders most persons almost completely free of ego-driven judgments and behaviors).

Quoting TiredThinker

self preservation

First order of business: Help yourself.

Quoting TiredThinker

self identity

The I is not easy to pin down! It seems to be more a matter of convenience than substance i.e. it just makes life simpler to assume there's a unique self. I've heard people say "I've changed my mind!". Never "I've changed my body!"

Quoting TiredThinker

ego

Like I said, for every individual, the ego comes first - it's the tip of the pyramid of important stuff.

Intriguingly, the ego has this burning desire to be part of something bigger, but the catch is it must negate itself for this. It's not about me anymore!

Is the ego really concerned with self-preservation?

Isn't it easy to come up with examples in which ego-driven behavior is self-destructive, and purpusefully so?

Reply to Tzeentch :up:

Reply to Agent Smith

"Intriguingly, the ego has this burning desire to be part of something bigger, but the catch is it must negate itself for this. It's not about me anymore!"

Apart of something bigger then negates itself? What examples are there?

Reply to Agent Smith I think "ego" is the drive (i.e. megalomania) to be bigger than everything and everyone else and not "to lose oneself in something greater".

Quoting 180 Proof

I think "ego" is the drive (i.e. megalomania) to be bigger than everything and everyone else and not "to lose oneself in something greater".

Quoting TiredThinker

Apart of something bigger then negates itself? What examples are there?

True, true, but I was referring to how those lower down in the pecking order tend to feed their egos by associating themselves with the upper echelons of society (vide name-dropping).

Apologies TiredThinker, I get the impression that what you had in my mind by ego is not what 180 Proof and I are discussing. To be honest the word "ego" comes with negative connotations which I latched onto almost without thinking.

I mean sense of self and requirements of survival and thriving, but not necessarily a sense of importance. Just action towards own goals without thought of who else's needs might be missed in ones own pursuits without consciously thinking the worth of self versus not self. Maybe more of an intuition?

Reply to TiredThinker A more benign/less toxic meaning of ego then.

I dunno, the ego seems to straddle the worlds of the imaginary and real? Is the ego/self the brain/mind? If yes how do you explain the statements "My brain tells me..." or "I changed my mind". Is this an indication that we're confused or is it the plain truth about the ego/self? Perhaps it's got something to do with metacognition. Is it that we're dissatisfied and fearful/hopeful about our selves and hence feel the need to invent an I that isn't anything we could point to using our metaphysical fingers? The ego looks at itself from a 3[sup]rd[/sup] person point of view and as to why?, I haven't the foggiest.

Quoting Tzeentch

Is the ego really concerned with self-preservation?

Isn't it easy to come up with examples in which ego-driven behavior is self-destructive, and purpusefully so?

Keep it comin'!!!

Reply to TiredThinker I don't think the ego is just or even primarly about self-preservation. I think the ego is more about self-focus. Self-focus can be good or bad or anything in between. There is a sense of what I am and what I want - which may be partly delusional. There is wanting things that help us to think of ourselves in certain ways. There is the knowing that this is me and that is you. So, people with leaky boundaries - like some people who have been sexually abused - may not know what is their own desire and what is someone else's.

There is a tendency in some subcultures and even in folk psychology to view the ego as selfish (in a pejorative sense) and negative (only). I disagree, though values play a role here. A battered woman may need to beef up her ego and stop being so concerned about her husband's, yes, horrible childhood and fragile sense of self that leads to his violence. She is likely actually seeing situations through his eyes and needs. That's not her role in life.

There is a lot of confusion about empathy needing one to be egoless.

You are closest to yourself. It makes sense to prioritize many of your own needs. You are right there to take care of them.

Egoless people are not likely to contribute as much because they are damaged and suffering. Can you have a healthy ego and help other people, care about them and even put them ahead of you in many situations? I would argue not only 'yes' but that without a healthy ego you are worse at these things, though on a physical, practical level you may sacrifice yourself and give.