The elephant in the room.
We've all heard that expression. I believe Aristotle originated that phrase (don't remember where). He tells the story of two philosophers standing before an elephant. One says, prove to me there is an elephant. Aristotle says nothing can be proven to an extreme skeptic who will not acknowledge what is before you.
Comments (55)
Which is the true elephant? The extreme skeptic, or Aristotle, who, as a true skeptic, does not prove that a skeptic will not acknowledge things before him, as the case might be.
The "elephant" is something so large and obvious, that to question its existence is a refusal to discuss its nature.
To you perhaps. Aristotle talking about having rational discourse.
So, if an argument has as a premise that 1 + 2 = 3 and someone seeks to dispute that premise by asserting that 1 + 3 = 8, then one does not need to bother with that person. They have not raised a reasonable doubt. They've just asserted something obviously false. It may not be obviously false to them, but that says something about them rather than about reality. And there is no point trying to argue with them, for any argument in support of 1 + 2 = 3 would appeal to premises less plausible than that 1 + 2 = 3. We have reached bedrock, so to speak.
Similarly, if one has as a premise that, say, sensations are mental states, and someone seeks to deny that premise by just contradicting it, then again, one should simply ignore that person. There is no point arguing with them, for any argument to the contrary would appeal to premises less apparent than the premise they are being used to support.
Likewise, if one has as a premise that, say, those who have done nothing deserve no harm, and someone seeks to deny that premise by just contradicting it, once more one should ignore that person for any argument one might try to give for the premise in question would have premises less clearly true than the premise itself.
Needless to say, virtually nobody here understands this.
I'd be very interested if you can produce any reference for that, I think it's bogus.
High quality philosophy and great writing skills to boot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_the_room
and that isn't the scenario it is used in. It's not an epistemological saying it's more of social denial, fear related one. I think Wayfarer here...
is probably correct at least about part of what is being dragged in. Though that's not an elephant as symbol 'hey it's obvious, apriori' can't you see it, it's more, well, like Wayfarer says, and generally about how we may only notice the trees but not the forest. (oh, no)
Ah Wayfarer spotted the Aristotle problem already :up:
It was interesting to see how a hallucinated use of the elephant in the room expression led to arguments using Aristotle or 'Aristotle' as a foundation.
Then Wayfarer had to come in and say the emporer has no clothes.
Oh, wait, that's not quite the right use either. Damn. My fault, not Wayfarer's.....
I do not care what you think.
I do. Glad you aspire to my knowledge.
Wow, super interesting.
Only the very ignorant use wiki.
When did that happen? Please explaiin.
I am not very observant, but this is a classic experiment. The subjects are asked to count the number of passes made by the white-shirt team. One is unlikely to notice the non-player dressed as a clown in the group.
Alertness for one particular thing can disrupt our perception of unrelated things. So drivers (and bicyclists, for that matter) may not notice bicyclists or pedestrians because they are focussed on cars--or something else.
You do what?
What?
What did "I do" refer to?
Marriage ceremony.
Great writing skills indeed.
I do have great writing skills. Thank you.
:rofl:
Thank you for the compliment!
How's your thread about elephants going?
Good, thank you for your friendly contribution!
[quote= Confucious]Only the wilfully ignorant don't use Wikipedia.[/quote]
"The expression the elephant in the room is a metaphorical idiom in English for an important or enormous topic, question, or controversial issue that is obvious or that everyone knows about but no one mentions or wants to discuss because it makes at least some of them uncomfortable ..." Wikipedia
"The parable of the blind men and an elephant is a story that illustrates ontologic reasoning. It is a story of a group of blind men who have never come across an elephant before and who learn and imagine what the elephant is like by touching it. Each blind man feels a different part of the elephant's body, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then describe the elephant based on their limited experience and their descriptions of the elephant are different from each other." Wikipedia.
The former is a metaphor of recent coinage, and the latter is an Indian parable. Aristotle has some stuff to say about elephants, but does not use it metaphorically or in a parable as it would not have been sufficiently familiar to his audience to make a vivid image. his information would have come mainly from Alexander's rampage to India.
Gosh, wiki.
Snide comments are not an argument. Sources are cited at the bottom of Wikipedia. Feel free to post your own source about Aristotle, otherwise you've been shown to be mistaken.
Irony noted.
Ignoring the rest of what I posted noted. Do not troll.
Noting the irony.
Wikipedia is a perfectly respectable source of information, I have contributed to it, and I donate monthly. Speaking of ignorance, did you manage to validate your spurious claim about Aristotle?
One does not validate spurious claims, one doubles down on them.
We're most grateful! Complete strangers are payin' for my education! :heart:
Isn't there already an elephant in this particular room?
I dunno!
Oh yeah babe, Jackson got banned.
The link doesn't work.
My memory is in tatters!
Mine too. Not to worry.
Thought I said this but the link is boken
:rofl: Elvis has left the building!
In Ivan Andreyvich Krilov's 1814 epigrammatic story "The Inquisitive Man" a man visits a museum and notices all the creatures except the elephant. He told the story to make fun of people who miss the obvious.
Full text of Aristotle in translation can be found on Project Gutenberg. Lots about elephants.
That's true. People who already possess knowledge do not need to seek it out. My local library houses an awful lot of untrustworthy rubbish. But that's not a reason to distrust every book in it.
https://www.earthdate.org/episodes/birth-of-a-monster