Having purpose?

TiredThinker August 26, 2022 at 03:33 9150 views 35 comments
What does it mean to give oneself purpose? That almost sounds like that exaggerates ones own sense of importance if the individual is giving themselves this purpose or rather a "sense" of purpose?

If say I believed in God and they created me and told me clearly what to do I would have purpose and it wouldn't be limited to my sense of self and ego. Sure we assign ourselves with tasks to make life go better, but isn't "purpose" a bold thing to give to oneself?

Comments (35)

Tom Storm August 26, 2022 at 03:39 #733160
Reply to TiredThinker Does anyone use such language these days outside of archaic religiosity or fanatical devotion to a cause?

People talk about pursuing meaningful activities from which they derive satisfaction. Car collecting, helping at a charity, employment, parenting, study. I think this is normal. Some people might call this having a purpose.

180 Proof August 26, 2022 at 08:12 #733222
Quoting TiredThinker
What does it mean to give oneself purpose?

Nothing more than "I gave myself an enema". :mask:
Agent Smith August 26, 2022 at 08:46 #733225
Has anyone heard of functional fixedness and the associated the candle problem?
Pantagruel August 26, 2022 at 13:02 #733264
Quoting TiredThinker
What does it mean to give oneself purpose?


Extending one's concerns beyond the limitations of the self. We are fundamentally social beings. Being stranded on an island of self-indulgent thoughts and actions can only lead to isolation. Believing that our actions contribute to an overall good, on the other hand, can be very rewarding in and of itself.
Alkis Piskas August 26, 2022 at 15:15 #733288
Quoting TiredThinker
What does it mean to give oneself purpose?

I assume you mean that someone sets a purpose for me (e.g., God, parents), which indeed is not a good idea at all and most probably it won't work. Otherwise, to set a purpose for myself, a goal, something to achieve, is a very good idea.

As for the "sense of purpose" I'm not sure what does that mean. Something indefinite, illusory, fake, etc. that can think of as a purpose? A purpose is generally something specific, concrete. It's not like, e.g. freedom, which is an abtract idea and a "sense of freedom" has indeed a meaning.
javi2541997 August 26, 2022 at 15:44 #733298
Quoting Alkis Piskas
"sense of freedom" has indeed a meaning.


Which kind of meaning? Are you referring to politics or democracy?
Agent Smith August 26, 2022 at 15:49 #733305
Quoting Tom Storm
Does anyone use such language these days outside of archaic religiosity or fanatical devotion to a cause?


A beautiful question! Hats off to you señor/señorita.
Alkis Piskas August 26, 2022 at 17:14 #733373
Quoting javi2541997
Which kind of meaning? Are you referring to politics or democracy?

(Re:"sense of freedom"). Democracy can be included too. But it has really a lot of applications. It is actually a very common phrase.

Here's one of the definitions DICTIONARY.COM offers for the word "sense", which pertains esp. to the meaning I used it with:
"A more or less vague perception or impression: a sense of security."

In fact, we always live with a "sense of fredom", i.e. an idea, a feeling that we are free (regarding something). We are never totally, absolutely or actually free, are we? Freedom is something relative.
javi2541997 August 26, 2022 at 18:44 #733392
Quoting Alkis Piskas
We are never totally, absolutely or actually free, are we? Freedom is something relative.


Agreed. Very good thought :up:
Yohan August 26, 2022 at 19:03 #733399
Quoting Alkis Piskas
We are never totally, absolutely or actually free, are we?

I see it that, as children we are mentally free but physically bound.
Then by the time we get physical freedom, are mentally bound


SpaceDweller August 26, 2022 at 19:47 #733407
Quoting TiredThinker
What does it mean to give oneself purpose?

To know what one lives for.


Alkis Piskas August 27, 2022 at 05:03 #733525
Reply to javi2541997
Glad you agree. :smile:
Alkis Piskas August 27, 2022 at 05:05 #733526
Quoting Yohan
as children we are mentally free but physically bound.
Then by the time we get physical freedom, are mentally bound

Nice. :up:
unenlightened August 27, 2022 at 07:49 #733548

Quoting TiredThinker
What does it mean to give oneself purpose?


Why do yo ask? Does misery seek company?

Quoting TiredThinker
isn't "purpose" a bold thing to give to oneself?


Yes. If you try, you can fail.

But look at your question; it takes a whole life, yours or mine, and abstracts it from anything personal, then reinserts the personal as an arbitrary "purpose", and demands that there should be some "meaning" of this abstract "life" for its impersonal "self". If you spend your life on meaningless questions, your life will indeed have little meaning. Find a more vital question for God's sake. Make that your purpose for a minute.
TiredThinker August 28, 2022 at 04:34 #733829
Reply to 180 Proof

Dracula dead and loving it reference. Nice!!
TiredThinker August 28, 2022 at 04:41 #733831
Reply to SpaceDweller

We live with or without inventing a mental/behavioral occupation?
TiredThinker August 28, 2022 at 04:47 #733832
I was talking to a prospective date and she seeks someone with a strong sense of purpose. As far as I know Mr. Smith from The Matrix and Loki from Marvel movies are examples of being obsessed with purpose. Like everything needs to line up only too perfectly according to a predetermined design or else it is a failure.
Agent Smith August 28, 2022 at 04:52 #733834
Purpose has for the most part been associated with (joy &) life. What if someone's purpose is to (suffer &) die à la Jesus of Nazareth?
javi2541997 August 28, 2022 at 05:26 #733838
Quoting Agent Smith
What if someone's purpose is to (suffer &) die à la Jesus of Nazareth?


I even think suffering is inherent to us. It is not a "purpose" but a state of mind or at least an important chain of the human evolution and progress.
Agent Smith August 28, 2022 at 06:02 #733840
Quoting javi2541997
I even think suffering is inherent to us. It is not a "purpose" but a state of mind or at least an important chain of the human evolution and progress.


Well, that is a possibility that I didn't consider but isn't it true that when people sense a purpose in suffering, it kinda takes the sting out of it? Hence, I believe, the parallel quest to seek meaning in suffering.
Agent Smith August 28, 2022 at 08:31 #733858
[quote=TiredThinker]What does it mean to give oneself purpose?[/quote]

What is it that you think you're here for? What are you meant to do? What do you want to do with your life?

When you answer these questions by yourself, without looking no further than your own values, you have given yourself a purpose.

Recall that Leibniz called our minds little gods; giving yourself a purpose is (a little) god self-assigning a task.

L'éléphant August 28, 2022 at 19:12 #733965
Quoting TiredThinker
I was talking to a prospective date and she seeks someone with a strong sense of purpose. As far as I know Mr. Smith from The Matrix and Loki from Marvel movies are examples of being obsessed with purpose.

Those are two different mindsets. I think your prospective date meant someone with ambition -- they have a plan and they're going to follow through with it.

Mr. Smith lives in a much more immediate, urgent, and universe-bending reality. They're lucky to have that kind of challenge that we don't have here on Earth.
Hanover August 29, 2022 at 01:11 #734072
Quoting TiredThinker
What does it mean to give oneself purpose?


It means you believe purpose is self created.

If I asked you to give yourself a cause for your existence, you'd likely tell me that whatever caused your existence existed without any effort from yourself.

I'd say the same for purpose. You have a purpose and it isn't created by you.
Hanover August 29, 2022 at 01:20 #734075
Quoting Agent Smith
Recall that Leibniz called our minds little gods; giving yourself a purpose is (a little) god self-assigning a task.


If desires are our purposes, why confuse the issue with the pesky term "purpose" and just instead say "desire"?

I think we have the separate terms because we mean different things by it.

Your invoking little gods here begs the question of why you don't invoke the big God here. If we're going to speak of God or gods, then why not ask what your divine task is, as opposed to your personal desire?
Agent Smith August 29, 2022 at 01:24 #734077
Quoting Hanover
If desires are our purposes, why confuse the issue with the pesky term "purpose" and just instead say "desire"?


Well, as far as I can tell, what God desires of us is what religious folks would consider our purpose. I just ran with that when I said what we want (to do with our lives) is our purpose.

Quoting Hanover
why not ask what your divine task is, as opposed to your personal desire?


Because, in my humble opinion, god provides us hints & clues as to what He wants us to do in what we want to do.
TiredThinker August 30, 2022 at 03:52 #734335
I don't know why I exist or what I was supposed to do. I don't know why I feel like throwing up pretty much all day everyday without a clear medical reason. Just added inflammation every year and nothing ever gets better in life.
javi2541997 August 30, 2022 at 04:34 #734342
Reply to TiredThinker

You are just surviving, not living. Stay strong!
TiredThinker August 30, 2022 at 05:02 #734347
Reply to javi2541997

I will be strong if and only if medical advances focus on health span and not specific diseases when they show up inevitably due to poor preventive medicines.
Agent Smith August 30, 2022 at 06:54 #734372
Quoting TiredThinker
I don't know why I exist or what I was supposed to do.


[quote=Agent Smith][ ... ]After that, I understood the rules, I knew what I was supposed to do, but I didn't. I couldn't. I was compelled to stay, compelled to disobey.[/quote]

:grin: and bear it!

universeness August 30, 2022 at 08:53 #734398
Reply to TiredThinker
Quoting Hanover
It means you believe purpose is self created.


Would you say that the purpose of a virus is to replicate or to make humans ill or both?
Does a virus therefore have a purpose or perhaps even an intent?
I think some purpose IS inherent in humans and at its most basic level it must be 'to ask questions.'
From that our purpose or perhaps our intent seems to be to act as as agent of change.
We cause changes mostly deliberately but also sometimes, without intent on just due to our presence.
The presence of humans means that change is not completely dependent on random happenstance. Humans can be agents of intentional change. Could this be claimed to be their 'universal' or 'absolute' purpose? If not, then why not?
TiredThinker August 31, 2022 at 01:26 #734590
Reply to universeness

Well a virus isn't intelligent and doesn't need to think about purpose as it can't suffer or feel comfort. Also it isn't an organism and arguably isn't even alive. Perhaps just incomplete DNA protocol from long dead lifeforms.

If our purpose was to ask questions what purpose do those questions serve if we get no closer to answers?
universeness August 31, 2022 at 10:32 #734702
It seems to me that you are suggesting that a virus has no inherent purpose.
I don't think it matters much, when it comes to inherent purpose, whether or not a virus can suffer or feel comfort. Science cannot confirm for sure that a virus is alive and does not suffer or feel comfort but I agree that it probably doesn't 'feel' at all. BUT that is not proof that it has no inherent purpose.
From YOUR perspective rather than the perspective of a virus. Do you think virus has a purpose.
Quoting TiredThinker
Perhaps just incomplete DNA protocol from long dead lifeforms.


From https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/the-origins-of-viruses-14398218/, we have:

[i]
Where Did Viruses Come From?
There is much debate among virologists about this question. Three main hypotheses have been articulated:
1. The progressive, or escape, hypothesis states that viruses arose from genetic elements that gained the ability to move between cells;
2. the regressive, or reduction, hypothesis asserts that viruses are remnants of cellular organisms; and 3. the virus-first hypothesis states that viruses predate or coevolved with their current cellular hosts.[/i]

There are other interesting small paragraphs and details in the single page of text linked to above such as: Are viruses alive?

Quoting TiredThinker
If our purpose was to ask questions what purpose do those questions serve if we get no closer to answers?

So what do measurements (even if they are subjective) such as 'progression' mean to you or a metaphor/analogy such as 'We see further as we can stand on the shoulders of giants,' mean to you?
TiredThinker August 31, 2022 at 18:41 #734790
I don't know the giants metaphor. I assume it is irrelevant if a virus has purpose as it cannot even seek one. Even its very existence doesn't matter. I guess I have to presuppose that some things are accidental therefore creating contrast with things that have purpose.
introbert August 31, 2022 at 21:09 #734811
I think purpose and questions of purpose are actually part of the human mind's obsession with meaning and interpretation. Other animals with complex nervous systems (eg mammals etc) don't seem to be preoccupied with this question, although they do have limited capacity for identifying things. Humans however look at everything, not just communications, and interpret it. That results in an evaluation that is usually positive or negative. When looking a plant we see it as good or a weed, medicinal or poisonous etc. This cerebral capacity we have can turn against us when we look at our own meaning, purpose, use, value and all. I think context has a lot to do with interpretations, as the way we interpret things contemporarily is for its use or purpose and if it has none it is useless or garbage. If people were more about the aesthetic nature of things, and saw things with just purpose like cars and machinery as ugly and undesirable maybe we would look for the beauty in life instead, which is rather abundant.
TiredThinker September 01, 2022 at 02:31 #734901
Reply to introbert

Very insightful. Thanks.