NDEs video and implications.

NDEs don't occur after brain death. So they tell us nothing about an afterlife.

Reply to jgill There are a few cases where patients have been declared ‘Brain Dead’ then made a full recovery. Whether they were actually brain dead, or it was a mistake by the hospital, is pretty darn hard to determine.

The is an extraordinary thing so maybe what we class as brain dead is not really the same as someone being dead. I do not see how anyone has the authority to state that no one declared brain dead recovers when this has actually happened.

Maybe NDE is simply dying (in a pleasant manner). All reported NDEs are accounts of suspiciously positive experiences (lights/bright colors/survival of consciousness). My bullshitometer gives me a reading that isn't very encouraging, sorry.

I feel the brain wants to end on a good note - the carmen cygni is always a grand performance!

That said, I feel Dr. Bruce Gregson, if he's telling the truth, has a compelling reason to investigate this phenomenon thoroughly and with all the help he can get from science. There are so many mundane explanations for his experience that I feel his research results won't match some people's, those who believe in an afterlife, expectations.

Reply to Agent Smith This is actually false. There are plenty of accounts of people ‘going to hell’ then when they recover from their ‘brain death’ they try and turn their life around.

In physical terms I believe it is ‘just’ DMT being released in the brain somehow - triggered by extreme stress maybe. In such states something very significant happens. I have had a certain ‘state’ and it is very much a transformative experience and sadly something that cannot be put into words.

I think in this century we may make some headway into understanding and harnessing the potential benefits of such experiences. There is already more and more studies into psychedelics after decades and decades of irrational dogma and fearmongering.

Reply to I like sushi Now if unpleasant NDEs are part of the reports, it defintely gives this phenomenon more credibility, but unfortunately this isn't enough for the subject to be taken seriously by scientists. Part of the problem is death is, like it or not, all life's event horizon - we can't see beyond, it is the limit of our observational capabilities.

Also, release of endogenous neuroleptic chemicals maybe how NDEs are triggered. I'm not sure about this, perhaps its anecdotal, but some people who've received severe physical trauma and are still conscious don't feel the pain they should. One explanation that pops to mind is the brain on such occasions releases painkiller chemicals as there's really no point to the pain anymore (death is inevitable). NDEs (the nice ones) could be merely extensions of this mechanism.

One odd thing is there are few/no stories of NDEs vis-à-vis fainting/epileptic fits/general anesthesia.

Reply to jgill

Do they say anything about this life?

Quoting I like sushi

?Agent Smith
This is actually false. There are plenty of accounts of people ‘going to hell’ then when they recover from their ‘brain death’ they try and turn their life around.

It would be nice to see some references here.

Quoting TiredThinker

?jgill

Do they say anything about this life?

I think that is a very good question, one that might be answerable.

Reply to jgill

I actually had a email correspondence with Dr. Greyson for a bit. He said many people who had terrifying NDEs might feel fear or embarrassment talking about that experience versus something pleasant and more iconic.

I'm particularly interested in the brain's ability to recognize real versus imagined things. Many that claim a NDEs say things seem realer than real. And people with schizophrenia and dissociative diseases may experience things seeming less real. I wonder what brain functions plug us into this reality and make it real or meaningful to us.

How might a NDEs' affect on life afterwards potentially answer what life might be about?

I hope NDE researchers also study sleep. Hypnos (sleep) is, as per Greek myth, the twin brother of Thanatos (death). I've had hypnopompic and hypnogogic hallucinations a coupla times. They're quite mind-blowing, probably for the same reason drug-induced highs are - the blurring of the boundary betwixt the real and the unreal (which is which though?) is an experience worth having every once in a while.

Quoting TiredThinker

Many that claim a NDEs say things seem realer than real.

Exactly my first experience with Castaneda's Art of Dreaming many years ago. Stephan King describes an alternate reality in one of his books in which an onion is pulled from the ground and someone a mile away smells it.

Being alive is a "NDE", then you die.

Reply to jgill :up:

On the topic of sleep (quasi-death) & wakefulness some further points people might find worthwhile ...

A few things that wake a person up

1. Pain
2. Cold
3. Noise

Maybe we can use these same stimuli to awaken the awake!

:chin:

N. B. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way recommending torture when I say this, but the Buddha was, to my reckoning, in a whole lotta pain. Why else would anyone in his right mind hyperfocus on anguish like the Buddha did?

The 1[sup]st[/sup] Noble Truth: Life is suffering.

Then ... in a span of 3 decades or so ... nirvana

There's gotta be a better way to trigger an Awakening than via dolorosa.