If Death is the End (some thoughts)
Many people believe death is not the end. When the body dies, they believe that heaven or reincarnation or some other fate awaits. And, of course, they may be right. Yet, as far as I am aware, no iron-clad proof exists about what happens after death; its still an open question. If God and an afterlife do in fact exist, then apparently God doesnt want us to be too sure about it, so religions offer conflicting answers about the afterlife.
So, the possibility remains that death is the absolute and final end, that when its over, its over. Period. Lets think about that.
One comforting thought is that if I do, indeed, cease to exist when I die,I will never know it. It is not possible for me to experience anything if I no longer exist. The writer Mark Twain once wrote: I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. (I expect Twain had conceived in mind rather than born) If I cease to exist when I die, then Ill be in the same state I was before I existed. Both states are equally impossible for me to experience.
So, if no after-death state, then no worries? Not quite. Because if I cease to exist at death, then all the people Ive known and loved who have passed have also ceased to exist, a sad thought indeed. A thought that leads to questions about the meaning and purpose of life itself. If we utterly cease to exist, then its easy to feel, in the words of Shakespeare, that
These thoughts are sad but they also contain lessons. The people around you may one day cease to exist, so appreciate them while they are here. This life may be all that there is, so make the most of it. Treasure each day. Not a bad takeaway from such sad thoughts, Id say.
So, the possibility remains that death is the absolute and final end, that when its over, its over. Period. Lets think about that.
One comforting thought is that if I do, indeed, cease to exist when I die,I will never know it. It is not possible for me to experience anything if I no longer exist. The writer Mark Twain once wrote: I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. (I expect Twain had conceived in mind rather than born) If I cease to exist when I die, then Ill be in the same state I was before I existed. Both states are equally impossible for me to experience.
So, if no after-death state, then no worries? Not quite. Because if I cease to exist at death, then all the people Ive known and loved who have passed have also ceased to exist, a sad thought indeed. A thought that leads to questions about the meaning and purpose of life itself. If we utterly cease to exist, then its easy to feel, in the words of Shakespeare, that
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more.
It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
These thoughts are sad but they also contain lessons. The people around you may one day cease to exist, so appreciate them while they are here. This life may be all that there is, so make the most of it. Treasure each day. Not a bad takeaway from such sad thoughts, Id say.
Comments (30)
Ha ha ha! I expect Twain had in mind exactly what he wrote. He was that kind of writer.
When a star explodes, its atoms continue, and their trajectory reflects and continues that of the star, including the added effects from the event of its demise. In fact, if you view the star as a gravitational phenomenon from far enough away, it has a very similar profile before it has actually ignited and after it explodes.
Do you get no comfort from the suggestion that we are all connected via the components we are made of? Conservation laws? Only the form changes, nothing is destroyed or created. We disassemble after death and what we were become universal spare parts again. How many atoms in you right now were once part of other life forms? All newborn humans are made from components which have existed in different forms, since the origin of the universe. Maybe some sub-atomic bits of you were once bits of Aristotle, uggar the now completely unknown friend of Lucy the Homo Sapien, a tree, a comet, a star and Adolf Hitler.
Yes. However this thought does not arise when one is dead, IF we are correct in assuming that post-life is a similar state than pre-life. Death is "only" painful for the living who experience it of others and to people who are on there way out. But the actual "state", is not a reason to worry, I think.
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[quote=Epicurus]Death is nothing to us. When we exist, death is not; and when death exists, we are not. [/quote]
[quote=Hillel the Elder]What you find hateful [harmful], do not do to anyone.[/quote]
[quote=Spinoza]A free man thinks of death least of all things, and his wisdom is a meditation not of death but of life.[/quote]
Carpe diem! Non serviam. Sapere aude. Amor fati ....Memento mori, memento vivere. :death: :flower:
1. Awesome: Heaven
2. Bummer: Nothingness
3. F**k: Hell
Which of these 3 obtains is, luckily/not, past our event horizon. What determines which of these 3 outcomes will come to pass is also very doubtful (no pattern that could've come in handy in solving this puzzle holds).
I like it. Haven't seen it before.
Good point. I'd say the OP concerns the ego but we also may be said to have a deeper self in that we are an expression of the entire universe, not that we are the universe but rather that the universe is us.
In typical Socratic fashion, this is not an answer but is intended to raise questions.
A more advanced view of death can be achieved, as with Da'at in kaballah. Under the name Da'at, death is first to be known it's 'step' value, rather than ceasing and rebirth. In theory Da'at is a sharper understanding of death and may be wiser in some situations. However, death in it's placid and not lucid form is the only knowledge that counts.
Some of the fear of death may be connected to a fear of an after-life.
There is the prospect of torments as spelled out in The Inferno. The scariest part of that to me is a living person getting to have a tour. So it is the imagination itself that causes despair.
Like those nightmares where each strategy to escape a scene leads to another scene. One comes to wonder: is this a tourist visit or am I dead?
Even if the components are not destroyed that does not mean that we are not. Perhaps we are the form those components takes. When the form those components take that is me changes then I am not.
I agree that YOU as a combinatorial system, no longer exists after death. 'Nothing is destroyed,' only relates to mass/energy equivalence. Any functional system will be destroyed via entropy and will no longer exist in its current form. Death does 'destroy' you in that sense.
Gore Vidal once quipped, 'When I die, I take all of you with me.'
I don't see how meaning or purpose of life are diminished if this is the only life we have and death is the end. It might even be argued that on this basis life could be more precious to us. I don't value my car any less knowing it will be a heap of broken, rusty steel in 25 years. I don't value a lovely spring day any less knowing it will presently be over. I don't value a great evening with friends knowing it will be end in a few hours. I don't value life any less knowing it is finite.
As a happy atheist I think people would be better off enjoying the life we have now, rather than worrying about, or debating, whether we'll get another one.
Matter continuing doesn't have to do with conscious existence continuing. In fact matter exists like 99.9999+% of the time line while matter and life together covers the small difference of time in the history of the universe.
You might be surprised to hear that there are schools of thought that do not concur with your belief.
No big mystery. We, the living, are concerned about it because we experience others never waking up again and its frightening so we make up all these stories about it. But all we ever experience is what we experience in life, including whats mentioned above sleep being the most common. Take away dreaming and there you have it.
I agree with Twain.
There is no end at all for the self since there is no self that ends. That at each moment the individual dies because they change to a different individual.
Birth and death merge into one and thus disappear into eternity.
Concepts of something after death are the result of the fear of death combined with a narcissistic idea that the ego, the self is the center of the universe, so "how could it possibly just disappear!?"
In my opinion, it's a fear and concept that never left a childish state of mind, like how conspiracy people try to understand something really simple with extremely complex and elaborate explanations just because they can't accept the simple as being true. And all attempts to provide rational thought and facts that support the simple truth just make them more scared and in need of even more extremely convoluted ideas about it.
Because they can't simply handle it, "Me... being gone? Preposterous! I'm immortal and evidence of my decay, evidence of mental changes by neurological degradation only means my body dies, and my mind my SOUL will be immortal and exist somewhere else and it will all be better because I will transcend all my bodily pains and aging aches and once again be happy, like I was in my youth... ah, I will be young again, my mind will be young and healthy, and all will be fine, all will be as it was supposed to be for me, all my problems in life, gone, I will be happy again...".
It is... hilarious.
I think ego death is the most lacking thing about our modern world. In a world order built around narcissistic tendencies due to the rampage of neoliberal individualism, we would need an ego holocaust to return to something closer to decent morality for humanity.
However, we're [s]pleased[/s] relieved by some deaths (euthanasia, suicide) for the simple reason that there really is no point to living with pain that's unbearable. Ergo ... nothing ... postmortem.
Hence, postmortem one of two things will happen, you'll either cease to be (nothing) or you'll jump from the frying pan into the fire (hell). Put simply ...
[quote=Albert Camus]There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide.[/quote]
I agree that many religious people have enough doubts about heaven that they fear dying.
But your quote neglects the possibility that the crying is due to leaving loved ones, even if only for a while (i.e., reuniting in heaven)
A question, how do you explain the desire to kill one's enemies and the pleasure one experiences when/after doing so? If the dead go to heaven, why would anyone want to murder one's foe?
Life is everything, and after death is nothing. It is as if the world starts when you are born, and ends when you are dead. I believe that when it happens, there will be no capacity for any thought or feeling, and all truths or perspectives will lose all meaning. I want to live a good life while I'm alive, but there's nothing I want to do before the coming oblivion, as it seems pointless to care about a time when nothing will exist for me.
I'd say that many people really don't believe in heaven and merely want to destroy someone they hate.
But having never killed anyone, I don't speak from experience. :)
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