Liz Truss (All General Truss Discussions Here)
Been PM for a couple of weeks and already starting with a disastrous economic policy that's apparently prompted Conservative MPs to start sending in letters of no confidence.
And Boris is favourite to retake the position!
Fucking Tories. When can the public just vote them out and we can get some sanity back in Government.
And Boris is favourite to retake the position!
Fucking Tories. When can the public just vote them out and we can get some sanity back in Government.
Comments (123)
Something's got to give. I expect the path of destruction will go: Sterling, the economy, house prices, and only then, the Tories.
It's always about helping the rich stay rich (or get richer) at the expense of everything else. The lie of trickle-down economics. People are going to starve and freeze because a minority want to buy a fifth house.
Tories are usually a bit more subtle about their social engineering. But this is the Liz Truss who thinks you plebs don't show enough graft. Maybe the idea is a choice of graft or freeze.
Btw, now the BoE is buying bonds to stop interest rates getting completely out of control. Sounds OK until you realize what that will further do to the value of Sterling. Below dollar parity by Christmas is my bet.
I heard a lot of interest from friends and family in Nadhim Zahawi.
This. The whole idea has been debunked for decades now, so it's not even a lie at this point. It's just piss.
But having a stock broker who invests your inheritance, or collecting rent from your tenants, is a shining example of a working man.
Robin Hood for PM.
That's would represent a real democratic system!
Quoting javi2541997
Like, I don't know, a General Election? And with something like alternative vote or proportional representation? Labour have recently committed to the latter.
Q: What do you think about David Cameron?
A: He doesn't make me think.
Except that Truss has a genocidal streak to her. My, with leaders like these, who needs villains?
I don't know the solution neither. But the system is flawed when the leaders of each party are not elected by the people but the few who are part of the political arena. For example: you vote for Labour, but... who chooses the person who would run for the presidency? Here is when the problem starts.
That's from Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead.
Toohey: Mr. Roark, we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me? In any words you wish. No one will hear us.
Roark: But I don't think of you.
Well, we vote for a person, not a party.
Quoting javi2541997
We don't have a President.
Ha! One good line in that horrible book! Ironic that Hitchens hated her.
Not that Hitchens was exemplary, far from it, towards the last part of his life. But it's a good quote, and its applicable to a decent range of world leaders, imo.
Britain has been having disaster after disaster since Brexit. Truss is just next in line...
Who decides (or chooses) that person previously to go to the polls? I don't see we are allowed to choose between one member or another. For example: What leader of Labour do you want to run for presidency in the next elections? A) Jeremy Corbin. B ) Keir Starmer. Choose one of the candidates.
Well, we can't take part in such decision because one or the other are elected by their affiliates.
Quoting Michael
Prime Minister, whatever... I see the same problem in both Republic and Monarchy. I live in a kingdom and it is similar the process of elections.
Yes, was thinking of shorting but you never know what they'll do next. The volatility is ridiculous. Moving like a meme coin :lol:
I assumed the game has been from the beginning (of Brexit) to bankrupt the country and then move to Panama.
That's what I use. I just lost a tenner because of the international cabal that watches me when I press a button and makes the market move the other way. :sad:
Shame they didnt back it when Lib Dems tried to make it happen. Maybe because the Lib Dems were basically the true opposition for decades in terms of proportional representation.
The campaign waged against proportional representation was taken on by both Labour and Conservatives AND set back the Lib Dems very, very, very far sadly. Imagine a choice between three parties would at least increase the odds that one of them might not be so bad.
The public is mainly to blame to though. Too many people want to hear make believe policies above the harsh reality.
Anyway, I dont live there anymore and have no intention to in the future. Good luck
:lol:
:pray:
Also Casablanca:
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you Rick?
Rick: Well if I gave you any thought I probably would.
I mean... the ideological information is right there in front of anyone if they were to look, but people have learned to stop listening to experts and instead listen to influencer-style con-artists without any second thought as to any underlying agendas of these people.
This is what people get for wanting irrational people in power to "shake things up a bit"... because now they have shaken things up quite a bit. Hopefully, the people who voted for them are happy now that the whole economy has been shaken up because that's what happens when you give the power to these people and stop listening to experts who tried to warn about upcoming issues.
Initially sceptical
[i]Ms Truss decision to attend today came as something of a surprise when announced last week, as she was initially sceptical about the idea of an EPC.
She said in July that there were too many organisations in Europe and that existing bodies should instead be made more effective.
Her Foreign Secretary James Cleverly has also said more recently that the UK does not needto be a member of more institutions in the European sphere.[/i]
She is even more Eurosceptical than Boris Johnson.
The British government also reportedly asked that the name be changed to the European Political Forum possibly to avoid associations with the European Community, an earlier name of the EU but other European governments appear to prefer the term community. :yikes:
Warning. Do not attempt to make sense of this government.
The reality is a better progressive tax system. The job of government is to support everyone to provide the required services a modern society needs and provide support for proper investment in infrastructure and maximising business opportunities in a fair way.
Globally however the normal expectation of continued gdp growth fuelled by consumer spending and the reality of growth fuelled by energy and the modern reliance on oil and hydrocarbons to support unsustainable growth given we are at peak oil means overall sadly for the majority standards and quality of life will be reduced with no easy answers.
Historically it has been those with power and money that have provided for themselves and close friends and political allies that maintain their position.
For sure democracy and voting with the one person one vote seems on paper the right idea but you get the government you vote for. Those with the wealth and power are still the minority yet the majority voting are arguably still getting it wrong so we end up with the government we voted for setting aside the recent vote to change pm.
The biggest issue for the tories is no obvious leader with the right ideas and enough support to plan and implement it. Manifestos become wish lists to fool voters. Yes who would want to be a pm in those circumstances but no political party would ever be able to solve all these problems.
Individuals can help themselves by doing their own budgets and working out how to get by with the basics. Inflation although the problem is going to face the stark reality of falling demand as we cut back as the majority will focus on just spending on the essentials. I expect certain industries like tourism and arts and entertainment, the luxuries will suffer the most.
Imperative for the country, yes. But we can assume the Tory party will pursue self-interest first. The question therefore is whether there's anything they can do to stop defeat in 2024. Installing Hunt was a wise move - although it destroys Truss's credibility. I don't see how she can win even if all goes well from now on. 'Well' that is given the looming cuts, inflation and mortgages crises - which is not really 'well' at all. Their only chance I think is to ditch Truss ASAP and install Sunak in a coronation. However the party seems so divided now that that looks unfeasible. Anyway, I think Sunak is sensible enough to know that even then he'd probably lose in 2024, so he'll bide his time and wait to step in in the aftermath of the 2024 rout as the unity post-Truss candidate..
Or, if the zombie economists have made their killing, they might just call an election and let Labour take the blame for the long grind of poverty and the breakup of the union.
But the chances of the Prime Muppet making it to Christmas are
Im guessing, with no evidence, that she hangs on and continues for some time. Take a page out of Boris playbook.
:cool:
:snicker: El Rachum!
Maybe the most tragic part of this is Jacob Real Snob turning full thug and physically bullying backbench MPs into voting with the government. Guy looks like he couldn't push over a daisy and suddenly he's a Victorian hall monitor. Smh.
Truss meeting 1922 committee chairman
:smirk:
Whether she's got to the exact number or not, she has no authority left and the Tories are in full panic mode. I'm sure he'll explain the inevitable to her.
Only a general election in the UK and a labour government down South will improve things a little for the UK. But labour under Keir Starmer and the right wing of the labour party is just a less offensive shade of capitalist blue. It's a shame so many people will have to continue to suffer until some kind of UBI system/economic parity alongside a resource-based economy is finally embedded.
Not in my lifetime probably but we are moving snail speed in that direction imo.
Unfortunately with the current polling there is no chance the Tories will call for a general election. They'd become the 4th party. As much as I'd love to see it. Labour and Lib Dem as the top two parties would be so much better.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1582039734846574592[/tweet]
Yep, I think you are correct, BUT, only the tories themselves could call for a general election, and they may actually do that, if they think that they have no alternative but to spend time in opposition, so as to rebuild their nuked party. If they continue as they are, no matter who steers their crippled ship, they might totally sink without trace before the two years they have left, passes.
True, they could become the third party or even 4th behind the SNP. But they would at least survive. The liberals were almost wiped out after their very bad coalition with the tories and they have made a respectable comeback since. But you may well be correct that the tories will be too scared to drop down the league so far, even temporarily and will prefer to try to rebuild their status over the next two years and hope they don't shatter into a hundred factions in that time.
The other point to consider is that the country is in such a mess that giving labour the reigns and watching them probably fail to make any significant positive improvements in the next 4 years, might be the best way to dupe the populous into liking the tories again.
Your 30 mins prediction was quite close to the 'time left for the latest tory donkey.' I can already hear the HEEEE HAWWWWS of her potential replacements.
What a farce!
Next.
There's a naughty chubby lad with messy hair and even messier morals waiting in the wings and ready for a return to action! Hi, ho, silver!
So the only people they have available as replacements is the last dude who failed. What does this say about Tories?
And why doesn't the more rational and balanced Tories just leave and start their own new party and leave the incompetent and stupid parts to drive Tories into the ground? I think they would have tremendous success if they did that at this time.
Send back the clown, there has to be clowns, send in the clowns, BUT, they're already there!
You are kinda describing Tony Blairs New Labour Party or perhaps even Keir Starmer's current labour party, who are indeed having tremendous success in the (non-Scottish) polls. That's why the tories keep stealing a lot of their policies, because they are soft tory policies.
Current labour and the liberal party should just merge as there is very little between them. :angry:
I'm not that well read-up on British politics so I didn't know that they did that.
In all essence I think a lot of western nations of the world needs new political movements that aren't fascist conservative super-capitalist racists. I'm kind of stunned that there aren't enough people who want a more non-extreme leftish movement, but maybe such voters are so content in their middle class life that they're too fat and obsessed with TikTok and social media to ever care about politics until it's too late. Just look at all the Millennials and Gen Zs in Russia who were just ignoring everything up until now and then being all surprised about everything.
When Maggie Thatcher was asked what she considered her greatest achievement her answer (true and a very bitter pill for all true socialists, like myself,) was TONY BLAIR!
In the UK, the left or right are just rejected by the majority in England. The center ground is therefore where the main dance then happens between capitalism and socialism.
We need to get rid of party politics. No political parties allowed. Each constituency should vote for their own local representative based on agreement with their viewpoints. People should be voting for people not political parties.
Could devolve into becoming just like presidential elections and wrestling fights between individuals and media covering who wore the best clothes and so on.
Such a system needs moderator personel who will steer the ship away from such downfalls and focus on the actual politics and strategies being pit against each other.
No there should be no president or presidential elections as there would be no political parties.
The representatives elected by the constituencies would elect and remove their own 'hierarchy' as they saw fit within the 4 years they would have.
There would be a citizen's chamber, who would act as the second house and they would be made up of the main stakeholders such as science, business, youth, the aged, police, military, medical etc. They would 'moderate and scrutinise' the main chamber.
This could still happen at a constituency level but no more than it does now. It would be the responsibility of an educated electorate to see past such bullshit between constituency candidates.
People have to grow above the excitement and entertainment of the freak show.
They never do. Voters are rarely intellectually involved and politicians desperately seek voters attention, everything in current democracy is always boiling down to demagogues and populism.
Democracy needs to evolve to a higher form, what that is, is up to political philosophers to figure out.
I remain convinced we can see beyond the 'circus.'
Most people I talk to about the attraction of 'reality TV' and the various opiates of the masses, do understand the human attraction to the freak show and the oooh ahhhhh scandal media news stories.
It's a double-edged sword, as its good when all that is said is true and it brings down the nefarious, but it is not so good when it is not true, and it is simply used as a tool to fool many people most of the time.
Most people know this, and they can be convinced to be more sceptical and drill down a little further and check all sources of the info they are being fed.
Removing party politics and presidential elections would greatly help imo.
That usually would mean that Truss would have been a prime minister for a long time. :smirk:
Yet this thread won't be long now. Perhaps we go to the Boris Johnson thread again? :snicker:
There is s possible world where Boris gets in, fucks up again, and they bring back Liz Truss. :lol:
They'll try again the next time they get the chance. The only reason why they couldn't this time was because of that meddling UK economy.
Before then though, I expect the GOP in the US to ride into power through inflation-concerned voters and try to pull off the exact same thing, perhaps more successfully.
It looks as though this might now be happening.
Better than a limp lettuce!
Shhhh, don't say such things--it might encourage them.
The DEM vs GOP polls are already sending me into the slough of despond.
On the bright side at least in the UK it doesn't look like the conservatives have much of a chance the next time a general election happens. Though who knows since voters have very short attention spans and 2025 is some ways away.
Unless an election is called soon, which seems unlikely if the Tories are in power -- they admit they'd be wiped out -- the next one is 3 years away. In just a few weeks, our election will be over; people appropriately voted based on conditions in 2022, not 2019.
Rapidly rising inflation is frightening to everyone whose income is marginal. They are not in danger of losing access to luxury goods, they are in danger of losing access to necessities -- milk, gasoline ($6+ a gallon in California), diapers, heating, decent food (fruits, vegetables, etc.) and so on.
Voting for conservative will not change the economy for the marginal income groups (which are composed of quite a few million people). Voting for the Democrats will not change the economy for the marginal income groups either. Our political system (like some others) repeatedly offers empty choices to the electorate.
Whoever is elected will be reliably committed to the articles of faith of the dominant capitalist paradigm. The economy is not democratic -- it's plutocratic. The millions of extremely rich, very rich, and merely rich income groups will be well taken care of. Fuck the food stamp crowd; fuck the must-drive-old-car-crowd; fuck the must-work-3-jobs crowd; fuck the priced-out-of-housing crowd; fuck 'em all!
Pretty much. Voting is mostly just a way for people to vent their current frustration at the status quo and they're dissatisfied with that the majority of the time. Rarely is it about long term policy or ideology which is unfortunate since the current GOP's ideology is atrocious.
I don't think that the Dems will hold on to power for this years midterms, but I'm honestly mostly content that the Dems were able to get something done this time around on climate, drug prices, and healthcare, even if it's not much. The IRA is a popular bill (as is the larger BBB which didn't pass) regardless of people's opinions about the Democratic party, but people will forget it by next month and vote for the Republicans and their tax cuts anyways, which people will forget about too.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Don't forget the military.
The people you mention are indeed indoctrinated to believe they are the chosen ones who were born to lord it over the masses. They can't do it without many members of the masses supporting them. They are expert manipulators of the politically ignorant mind. That's why many poor people vote tory and that's why they will fight tooth and nail against the idea that politics should be taught in state schools, from an early age. Capitalism is about nurturing personal profit and growing personal wealth, it is not about nurturing people, and it never ever will be
:clap: That just about covers it! I wonder when the masses will fully realise, they have the power to change this almost ridiculous reality you accurately describe. Will they just continue to watch 'the Elon Musk show' or shows about how the rich wives of millionaires interact with each other socially and spend the money their husbands leached off the backs and sweat of their workers?
Will they continue to watch such insults and think 'hey, that's who I want to be, that's the life for me!, those are my role models, my ideal humans.' REALLY!!!! :rage:
Btw, a small aside, It annoys me that you gift the nefarious with the handle 'bitter crank,' to throw back at you, when you type such social/political truths.
To put this in terms a capitalist might understand, a market that deals in pigs in pokes, snake oil and Ponzi schemes is not worth trading in at all. It's not worth being an expert in, or a market leader of, and it's nothing to write home about. It has no value. None at all.
There is no government in the UK because no one can believe anything the government says. This means that no one will seriously try to do what the government says, and this means that they cannot govern anything or anyone.
In such a situation, people are reduced to their own sense of decency and must care for each other as best they can. The government has the status of bad weather, and must be endured and adapted to.
Don't the British have any other universities? What's wrong with Cambridge University?
Ain't my Prime Ministers, bruv. I'm Irish.
I remember meeting an Irish woman and asking her if she was from real Ireland or Northern Ireland. Thankfully she was from real Ireland. Probably would have been offended if she was from Northern Ireland.
Er.. isn't that the awful spectre of Borisenstein looming over the horizon?! Are the Tories really so desperate they'll bring back the man they threw out as unfit to govern only 4 months ago? I think, possibly yes. I can't see anyone else uniting the party. Even he can't do it via policy, but by convincing MPs they can yet avoid wipeout at the next election under his charismatic wooing of voters he has a shot. I think the public majority will not forgive his past misdemeanors though. And by the way: isn't there an appalling echo of Trump's situation in all this?!
It wouldn't wash in Ireland. But things are different over there, apparently.
Yeah, I don't recommend increasing your sample size on that experiment. :wink:
God, imagine the Tories actually replace Truss with Boris, and then he's suspended for lying to Parliament and forced to face a by-election, probably prompting an immediate resignation. What a farce.
And here's the Boris Johnson thread waiting to be continued... :snicker:
Now for balance, we don't want Bernie or Barach back, either. Or any number of fine folks who did their bit and are now done.
SO, OVER THERE LEADERS WILL RESIGN JUST FOR DOING A BAD JOB? SOUNDS NICE.
Its simply the Chanels established by the political elites. Through which the chosen ones pass on their path to power.
I was thinking the same thing. Common decency? Very un-American.
Wokeness is pretty new. But there are similar small paths for example in France also. Yet I think for a democracy to work you do need people with different education and career paths. It's just funny to me, but I notice this education especially in the traditional Oxford education in their speeches and oratory: a British prime minister never speaks like a businessman, an engineer or someone from the military. (As they obviously aren't businessmen, engineers of from the military, but well trained in the art of giving speeches.)
But of course as the negative impact of Brexit will be felt as the global economy goes into recession and one cannot blame it on Covid, it's utterly stupid for the Conservative party to "rearrange the deck chairs of the Titanic" and select new prime ministers. The negative effects of Brexit will go for long.
Either Boris should have sat it out and be as popular as Yeltsin was in Russia in the 1990's or then have a new election. Elections have to be had only in 2025, so likely three years feels so long that Conservative party can have a pipe dream that the economy has "a brief rough patch" and walz through it. Otherwise it could be better to be in the opposition and have the Labor now to be in charge when the train wreck happens.
Quoting Punshhh
Second longest Italian leader since Mussolini. And a friend of Putin.
She resigned because, facing electoral annihilation, her party would have given her the boot otherwise. It's not all that difficult to get rid of a PM compared to a U.S. President. If you're in search of common decency, you are probably looking in the wrong place.
Oh, it's more complicated than I thought.
It's January 2025, and given that that would mean a campaign over Xmas it's unlikely. The December 2019 election was shoe-horned in because of the Brexit end-of-year deadline. Normally Autumn would be chosen, so 2 years' time is realistically the latest date. That almost certainly isn't enough time for the Tories to get through the rough patch given the mess public services are in. Besides, the electorate's instinct is usually to 'give the others a chance' after a long period of one party's rule, and they aren't going to forget the calamity of this summer's Tory infighting.
Winter of Discontent 1979, the waste collectors strike:
Yes, my point is that this model is now broken. The Torys have succeeded in gaslighting the population since the establishment of the 1922 committee. Its poignant that this will come to an end exactly 100yrs later.
The economic crisis in the U.K. is really dire. I heard an influential Tory backer interviewed on Radio 4 this morning. Saying that Brexit is a mistake, that the U.K. will become the sick man of Europe again and will probably be bailed out by the IMF.
Who?
With Rishi it isn't, at least when it comes to Oxford. But the private preparatory school, Stroud, likely is nearly as exclusive as Eton.
Plus when you have appease the markets, what better to have than an analyst from Goldman Sachs as the new Prime Minister? :grin:
At least Sunak did understand that the economic policies of Truss were risky in this situation.
I think everyone realised that. Sunak was perhaps the only Tory with the guts to say so. 'Hubris' is the word I thought fitted Truss and her undergrad economics. 'Inept' is the one for her political acumen.
Liz Truss's phone hacked by Putin's spies in search for 'embarrassing' secret information (Express; Oct 30, 2022)