All that matters?

TiredThinker September 29, 2022 at 01:31 6200 views 37 comments
How do we decide what matters? Towards the end of our lives we probably don't have the mental functionality to concentrate on anything but the basics, but that alone doesn't make the basics worth more? Is what matters and what we're willing to forgo have everything to do with our own mental state and less to do with the world we are trying to describe?

Comments (37)

Deus September 29, 2022 at 01:51 #743256
Being content, finding joy in the little things and accepting the world as incredible incompetent incomplete and hopeful.
Tom Storm September 29, 2022 at 02:01 #743258
Quoting TiredThinker
How do we decide what matters?


Generally I don't decide. I act.

Quoting TiredThinker
Is what matters and what we're willing to forgo have everything to do with our own mental state and less to do with the world we are trying to describe?


I don't divide the world into deliberations about what matters. I act.

Now if in acting I get 'knocked on my ass', I might learn and reflect or try something new. My actions are based on whatever's already there inside me, a consequence of socialization, enculturation, personality, reading, conversations, that kind of thing. I don't sort it out or care to sort it out, I make judgements and go with them.

Mikie September 29, 2022 at 02:29 #743264
Quoting TiredThinker
How do we decide what matters?


It's a matter of values and the prioritizing of those values. What do you care about? What do you like or love about life?

I think actions speak much louder than words (or thoughts...or professed beliefs), so looking at how we spend our time is, in my view, important. Not the time that we experience, per se, but the time we've standardized through the agreed upon duration of a "second" and a "day" -- so we can be a little more objective about it. How many non-sleeping hours are we spending on x, y, and z? That will tell you a lot about where your priorities are -- i.e., what "really matters" to you.

So we better try our best to align our time with our values. If we spend excess amount of time (A) alone, drifting, watching TV (or screens), overeating, being sedentary, or working a job we hate rather than (B) spending time with family and friends, or generally being sociable, or working in the community, or spending time getting healthier by being active and eating well, or doing creative, productive work voluntarily -- than we're likely in real trouble, because in this case B > A in terms of what matters, but A > B in terms of what we actually do.

To reverse a lot of this requires real reflection, an awareness that there's a problem, a desire to want to change, and the wherewithal to formulate a plan and stick with it. It means overcoming unhealthy habits of mind and body that we've developed, and which says something about our society as well.

Not an easy task. But an important question.
180 Proof September 29, 2022 at 03:10 #743269
Quoting TiredThinker
How do we decide what matters?

To do so I think one must [s]suffer, lose, fail[/s] ... reflectively.
[quote=Albert Camus] ... whatever you're doing that prevents you from killing yourself.[/quote]
NB: Such as cultivating habits of courage ... of learning ... of ecstasy ...
Yohan September 29, 2022 at 08:04 #743306
What matters to us is survival and evolution. So when we ask if something matters, we are asking is it necessary for survival and helpful toward evolution.

Can I live without this?
Is this empty (going nowhere) or full of potential?



Seeker September 29, 2022 at 08:35 #743311
Many things can and will happen between now and tomorrow, we and our circumstances change along with our chemistry and our ever changing external realities. Tomorrow we will reflect differently from today, to walk ahead of today might be considered meaningless in that context.
I like sushi September 29, 2022 at 08:56 #743313
Reply to TiredThinker We do not decide what matters. What matters is present it is just a case of paying attention and being honest with yourself. - not that this is an easy task.

Note: Edit your OP as it is incoherent in places.
alan1000 September 29, 2022 at 12:28 #743351
I'm recalling a British comedy movie of the 1950's called "The Man Who Liked Funerals". One of the characters says: "Remember the family motto: first we act, then we think!"
TiredThinker September 30, 2022 at 02:48 #743479
Reply to I like sushi

I'm incoherent in places.
Abdul September 30, 2022 at 19:14 #743652
Reply to Tom Storm Reply to Tom Storm

I think such an approach to life is generally an unbalanced one. One should always spend time reflecting and evaluating their own judgment, sharpening the moral self if you will. I wouldn't practically heavily rely on one of my virtues such an intuit as attractive as it may seem. It's something I need more of personally, though.
Banno September 30, 2022 at 22:25 #743695
Quoting TiredThinker
How do we decide what matters?


When you cross a swamp, where you decide to put your feet depends on how firm the ground looks. Be prepared to change your footing if the ground gives way under your weight. It's also not a bad idea to step where others have already stepped, and to keep an eye on how those around you are getting on.
Janus September 30, 2022 at 22:46 #743697
Reply to TiredThinker What matters is what makes you alive, and not just material, but emotional, intellectual and spiritual sustenance. It is not enough to merely be alive, we need to feel alive. If you feel alive your feelings, thoughts and actions will also be lively.

Each individual is unique, human diversity is great; so there are no universal rules governing what matters. The way and its struggle is different for each person, but the formula closest to being able to claim universality I can think of would be Nietzsche's "become who you are".
Banno September 30, 2022 at 22:50 #743699
Reply to Janus Reads like an ad for Nike.

Tom Storm September 30, 2022 at 23:17 #743703
Quoting Abdul
I think such an approach to life is generally an unbalanced one.


What does an unbalanced life mean and how would you demonstrate that this is the case?

Quoting Abdul
One should always spend time reflecting and evaluating their own judgment, sharpening the moral self if you will. I


What does it mean to reflect? When is it done and how is it done?

What does sharpening the moral self mean?

Quoting Abdul
I wouldn't practically heavily rely on one of my virtues such an intuit as attractive as it may seem.


I don't understand this sentence? Are you saying that you do not trust your own judgements?




Janus September 30, 2022 at 23:30 #743705
Reply to Banno Reads like instructions for going to the outhouse.
Banno September 30, 2022 at 23:40 #743709
Reply to Janus Shitting matters more than prestige footwear.
Janus September 30, 2022 at 23:59 #743717
Reply to Banno True, shitting is essential to survival, but if instructions are required something is terribly amiss. Feeling alive in the sense I have in mind is not essential to survival, but is rare; no instructions can be given and prestige footwear won't help. Go figure, eh?
Banno October 01, 2022 at 00:08 #743721
Quoting Janus
...but if instructions are required something is terribly amiss.


Never used a pubic toilet?

Feeling alive is pleasant, but does it matter? Naturalistic fallacy, yet again.

General gripe: Reply to Deus, Reply to Yohan, Reply to Seeker , Reply to I like sushi and you all posit suggestions that fall at this first hurdle. What we wish to do is not always what we ought to do. Nor can one derive what we ought do from what we in fact do. Basic stuff.
Banno October 01, 2022 at 00:09 #743722
Reply to Tom Storm I agree, except for you spelling of arse. An undesirable Americanism.
Janus October 01, 2022 at 00:17 #743723
Quoting Banno
Never used a pubic toilet?

Feeling alive is pleasant, but does it matter? Naturalistic fallacy, yet again.

General gripe: ?Deus
, ?Yohan
, ?Seeker
, ?I like sushi
and you all posit suggestions that fall at this first hurdle. What we wish to do is not always what we ought to do. Nor can one derive what we ought do from what we in fact do. Basic stuff.


I was referring to shitting and specifically outhouses, not public toilets. I hate using them and avoid it as much as possible, but I have never needed instructions.

If you don't feel alive then your life is wasted, so of course it matters. It has nothing to do with naturalism.

There is not "what we ought to do", other than try to feel alive and to appreciate the life in others. Everything follows without the need for instructions. Instructions are for the machine men.
Banno October 01, 2022 at 00:23 #743725
Quoting Janus
but I have never needed instructions.


I'm sure it's not you who shits on the seat or bleeds in the sink, but it is apparent that instructions for using public toilets in a way that does not put others at risk might be of use.

Quoting Janus
If you don't feel alive then your life is wasted,

Why? We might make your unhappy life not a waste by harvesting your organs...

You haven't presented, and can't, present an argument because you can't move from what is the fact to what ought to be the fact.

Otherwise, it's just organ harvesting or advertising slogans.
Janus October 01, 2022 at 00:36 #743727
Quoting Banno
Why? We might make your unhappy life not a waste by harvesting your organs...

You haven't presented, and can't, present an argument because you can't move from what is the fact to what ought to be the fact.

Otherwise, it's just organ harvesting or advertising slogans.


If no one feels alive then life is wasted. and harvested organs won't help, so you're only kicking the can down the road.

I don't need to present an argument; it is self-evident that the life lived with a vivid intensity of feeling is better than the unlived life; a life that manifests a paucity of feeling; a life of just organ harvesting and advertising slogans. Is the latter the life you want for yourself and others?
Banno October 01, 2022 at 00:44 #743728
Quoting Janus
it is self-evident...


Ok, so long as you are happy...

:roll:
Janus October 01, 2022 at 01:00 #743733
Reply to Banno You don't look so happy there; what's the matter?
Banno October 01, 2022 at 01:07 #743738
Reply to Janus It's bloody raining again. Can't get out in the garden.
Janus October 01, 2022 at 01:13 #743742
Reply to Banno It's raining up here too. I have a fractured ankle and have been more or less stuck in the house for the last five weeks, so it doesn't make so much difference to me. The dogs would like me to go outside and throw the ball for them, but they're not hassling me as they usually would if it were not raining. Hopefully it'll ease off and I'll be able to attend to their desire for ball action. :smile:
Banno October 01, 2022 at 01:23 #743745
Reply to Janus So what matters is that it stop raining.

Ankles are so badly designed. Proof that there is no god, or that he's a right arsehole.Or that things started to go bad when we came down from the trees. Poor choice on our ancestor's part.
Janus October 01, 2022 at 01:38 #743753
Quoting Banno
So what matters is that it stop raining.


Right, so that we can do what makes us feel more alive.

Quoting Banno
Ankles are so badly designed. Proof that there is no god, or that he's a right arsehole. I think things started to go bad when we came down from the trees.


Right, down from the trees, or up on two legs. In my case I came down about 2.5 metres on a ladder that slipped out from its position leaning against a wall; I came down vertically and landed with my whole weight on the right foot, it being still on the rung. Never had a problem with my ankles previously.
Banno October 01, 2022 at 01:46 #743758
Quoting Janus
Right, so that we can do what makes us feel more alive.


You never have such a clear and distinct apprehension of the fact of being alive as when you are bored shitless. Which entirely undermines your point.

I was up on the roof yesterday, trying to locate a leak. I hate ladders. Treacherous, unreliable contrivance of the devil. Killed a friend, one did, moving under him so as to cast him down.

Think I'll go and paint turps and linseed oil the handles on my garden tools.

Janus October 01, 2022 at 01:57 #743762
Quoting Banno
You never have such a clear and distinct apprehension of the fact of being alive as when you are bored shitless. Which entirely undermines your point.


No, since I was talking about feeling alive, not noticing the fact that you are alive. I hardly ever feel bored, and when I do it certainly does not consist in feeling alive; quite the opposite. But maybe that's just me; you know, human diversity...

I consider myself lucky to have come down vertically and not sideways onto the drop saw that might have led to my demise.

I also use (gum) turpentine and linseed oil on my wooden tool handles. Works well on steel too, once any rust has been removed.
Banno October 01, 2022 at 02:03 #743765
Quoting Janus
I hardly ever feel bored...


Well, there's your problem, then. Allow tedium soak in, to permeate your being; meditate on the fact that you might do anything, but instead do nothing; procure an aspidistra and put it in your front window, watch it by degrees become covered in dust.

Have you noticed that gum turps leaves a better colour on the handles?
Janus October 01, 2022 at 02:19 #743772
Quoting Banno
Well, there's your problem, then. Allow tedium soak in, to permeate your being; meditate on the fact that you might do anything, but instead do nothing; procure an aspidistra and put it in your front window, watch it by degrees become covered in dust.


I find it hard to imagine how it would be possible to do nothing. It could be said that I tried for many years via meditation to achieve the state of doing nothing, but I could never get there. Your Aspidistra contemplation sounds like it would be like watching the grass grow, very focused on very little for a very long time. But, it all depends on the state of consciousness. It reminds me of Blake:

[i]To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour[/i]

So the conclusion would be that boredom is a state of mind, not a state of doing (or lack of it).

Quoting Banno
Have you noticed that gum turps leaves a better colour on the handles?


Yes, agree; better than mineral turps. Better for painting pictures too. When I was cabinet-making I used to heat gum turps and linseed oil (very carefully!) and melt beeswax into it, to make an excellent furniture polish. Just the gum turps and linseed oil is good for that too, but not quite as lustrous as with the added beeswax.

I think these things matter, so I guess we're not going off-topic.
Deus October 01, 2022 at 02:21 #743775
Non-awareness of self is when we’re lost in the task at hand. Boredom is when we get good at it
Agent Smith October 01, 2022 at 02:48 #743781
As per a(n) Indian/Sri Lankan lady who did research on what matters to people (search TED talks),

1. Love
2. Health
3. Happiness
(in no particular order)

Sy?d, a good measure of what matters to a person is how much suffering said person is willing to endure/inflict to acquire something. People have died/killed for God, for country, for love, etc. These then havta matter in some way or another, oui mes amies?



TiredThinker October 01, 2022 at 04:01 #743787
Reply to Banno

Good advice, and nice new avatar
Seeker October 01, 2022 at 06:59 #743806
Reply to Banno

One's truth does not in fact make for general truth. Because you like to reflect upon others your truth's so much through the use of analogy here's one for you.

I Ching:A lake evaporates upward and thus gradually dries up; but when two lakes are joined they do not dry up so readily, for one replenishes the other.
I like sushi October 01, 2022 at 07:17 #743809
Reply to Banno Maybe you did not read my response. The OP asked how do we decide what matters. I said, plain and clear, we do not ‘decide’ at all. What I say ‘matters’ to me may not actuallu matter at all.

The OP did not ask ‘does anything matter?’ Also, the last question is incoherent and the person in question has not bothered to correct the grammatical errors so I am still not clear what they were asking there.

Quoting Banno
What we wish to do is not always what we ought to do. Nor can one derive what we ought do from what we in fact do. Basic stuff.


Yes. I never said otherwise.