Philosophical Chess Pieces

introbert October 16, 2022 at 11:50 7125 views 39 comments
Chess is a game that requires the players to think ahead and carry-out strategic combinations of movements with the chess pieces to entrap the king. A chess piece is basically a form that gives it an outward identity, and also content regarding rules for its use. I have always appreciated a good chess player that is able to outmaneuver another player's forms by being attentive to the complexity of content presented on the board. However, I do not have much attention for chess because I find it uninteresting.

Something I do find interesting, on the other hand, is philosophical debate / method. There is an element of chess that I try to emulate in philosophical debate / method, and that is thinking ahead in anticipation of how my argument or idea will be countered by an opponent. This is a reflexive activity when thinking alone, and a good practice in debate, but it is sometimes difficult to do on the fly. Socrates himself enacted a strategy by feigning ignorance and then applying his method of questioning to pick apart his opponent's concept.

If Socrates is taken as an example his concept would be a king, feigning ignorance would be any move that leaves an opening or seems naive or clumsy, a question would be a piece, let's say a Knight, because its movement looks like a question mark. His opponent simply states a 'fact' which we will call a pawn. So, in a standard Socratic dialogue the player makes clumsy moves with his knight and the opposing player sacrifices his pawns. But what other pieces are taking the pawns? Fortunately, a chess set only has king, queen, bishop, knight, rook and pawn, so I only need to think of three more things to complete this essay. King is concept, knight is question, pawn is 'fact', bishop can be reason, queen can be irrationality, and rook can be denial. The philosophical chessboard is more varied than that, but these few pieces will help me elaborate my point.

Of course, the type of arguments the pieces represents are the forms, but the contents are what they can do and what they can't do. A concept has a basic defense of its own merits, but it can't defend itself well. Irrationality has the least limitations, but it is prone to be used too wildly, so is easily sacrificed. Reason is a direct challenge against any other piece, but it is limited by rules. Question has to be used with calculation to be used with good effect. Denial is a basic defense that can be used as a barrier or used offensively as a negation. Fact is a fundamentally weak and vulnerable but is used for basic defense and offence.

The reader might be wondering, if arguments or parts of arguments are chess-pieces how can they be used with strategy? Earlier the basic strategy of Socrates was employed. Personally, I am not good at chess or at arguing, but I do have a basic strategy that I employ naturally: irony. This is related to Socrates, but the basic strategy how it unfolds is thus:

I open up my concept early with clumsy movements of facts and irrationality. I do not ask any questions, leaving them in the back row. The opponent responds with reason and questioning, judiciously stating facts that are threatening but also defensive of its concept. I am forced to castle, denying a combo of rational-questioning directed at my concept. However, I am able to defend my irrationality with rationality, eliminating the facts directed against it. The opponent's concept is left defended only with denial. I exchange irrationality with the opponent, both sacrificing it. And somehow the game ends, and I ironically, still think I won.



Comments (39)

Mww October 16, 2022 at 12:32 #748872
Reply to introbert

That was kinda fun.

Quoting introbert
I am able to defend my irrationality with rationality, eliminating the facts directed against it.


This says a queen’s defense, but there’s no defender named “rationality”. What’s defending the queen, sufficient for eliminating pawns/facts directed against it? It’s cool to attack irrationality with facts.....I get that.....but it’s usually an exercise in futility to attack a queen with a pawn, especially without knowing what allies the queen might have.

Seems a waste of power to have reason stand for a direct challenge against any other piece, then don’t use it for defense of your own concept.

Anyway.....something out of the ordinary, making it worthy just for that.


introbert October 16, 2022 at 12:34 #748874
Reply to Mww thanks,

Rationality=reason=logic=bishop
Mww October 16, 2022 at 12:49 #748878
Reply to introbert

Ahhhh...ok, that’s better. Still, to attack a fact/pawn with reason/bishop, an awful lot of antecedent conditions must have already been aligned. The rules of reason/bishop movement are quite restricted, which makes explicit the reason being used must relate to the fact it is attacking.....the colors of both must have a correlation, or no bishop attack is even possible. It’s like.....you can’t take a picture with a sewing machine.
Agent Smith October 16, 2022 at 12:56 #748880
All I know is I feel like a pawn. So which piece do other posters identify themselves with?
introbert October 16, 2022 at 13:25 #748882
Reply to Mww Im not sure how deep the metaphor goes but the pawn/fact is related to the concept/king. The bishop/ reason is attacking a fact in defence of the concept. So if the concept is 'utilitarian' and fact is 'happiness is good' reason attacking could be 'happiness is from using things, using is ethically bad or wrong, happiness is bad or wrong' or something. The bishop being on one colour going diagonally is just reflective of degree of restriction relative to, say, irrationality where there are less rules but obviously some rules or else it would be something else (another piece).

Reply to Agent Smith Definitely irrationality/ queen, to the extent of having a grandiose delusion of being the most powerful unit in the game but in practice so out of control i am vulnerable.
Mww October 16, 2022 at 13:53 #748888
Quoting introbert
Im not sure how deep the metaphor goes.....


That’s what’s so interesting about it. Can go wherever one wishes to take it, then figure out whether it conforms to the conditions you presented, and, why it does or does not.

Metaphysical reductionism writ large. Satisfied by imagination on the one hand, killed by sheer boredom on the other.



T Clark October 16, 2022 at 14:26 #748893
I usually don't see what we do here on the forum as competition. I have an idea I believe in or want to examine. I give my thoughts. I try to think them through before I do. Others respond.

Actually, maybe it is a competition, but it's between ideas, not people. Survival of the fittest.
Agent Smith October 16, 2022 at 16:06 #748934
Quoting introbert
Definitely irrationality/ queen, to the extent of having a grandiose delusion of being the most powerful unit in the game but in practice so out of control i am vulnerable.


:cool:

Long live the Queen!

Did you know, Queen = Bishop + Castle? Of course ya did!

Universal Student October 16, 2022 at 21:12 #749041
Quoting T Clark
I usually don't see what we do here on the forum as competition. I have an idea I believe in or want to examine. I give my thoughts. I try to think them through before I do. Others respond.

Actually, maybe it is a competition, but it's between ideas, not people. Survival of the fittest.


My thoughts exactly.
Srap Tasmaner October 17, 2022 at 00:06 #749079
Reply to introbert

This is a terrible idea.

Chess is illuminating because it presents questions that may be decidable in principle but are not, for humans, in practice. The alternating reliance on calculation and heuristics, with the goal of grounding a decision under uncertainty, is very reminiscent of philosophy, which rarely gives opportunities for decisive arguments and must content itself with persuasion. And you still calculate whenever you can.

Quoting T Clark
I usually don't see what we do here on the forum as competition.


But don't forget that chess is also cooperative. Takes two to play a game.
Ciceronianus October 17, 2022 at 14:38 #749175
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
But don't forget that chess is also cooperative. Takes two to play a game.


And to Tango! Let's talk about how philosophy is like the Tango.

Srap Tasmaner October 17, 2022 at 15:12 #749183
Reply to Ciceronianus

Insofar as the practice of philosophy is largely a sort of conversation, there are obvious analogies to dance.
Alkis Piskas October 17, 2022 at 15:24 #749186
Quoting introbert
I do not have much attention for chess because I find it uninteresting.

You find it "uninteresting", and yet not only you seem to appreciate it a lot, but you have created a topic with a title based on an allegory connecting Phiosophy with Chess! :smile:
introbert October 17, 2022 at 16:25 #749203
This post is meant to be fun, but there is a serious component in the metaphor of chess for philosophy. I have a sort of platonic perception of the forms and contents of things and the analogy of those to other seemingly unrelated things as sort of a phenomenon of forms and a noumenon of content. I look at the forms of the chess pieces as establishing a hierarchy of value and but the actual code or logic is noumenal. For philosophical forms like concept or irrationality there is an outward idea we get that is somewhat analogous to the forms in chess, and to a certain extent to the noumenal logic of both the pieces and the philosophy connected to them. It's easy enough to deny any relation to these two separate things altogether, but to me that some comparison can be drawn suggests to me that the material world is merely a very imposing distraction to an actual world of 'form' which is one level of informational reality and 'content' which in this case is the rules or code the analogous subjects. So I guess this post is a little bit of a lazy allusion to something more complicated, but I do appreciate the above comments and will address them in turn after work, as I am now on lunch break.
introbert October 17, 2022 at 22:04 #749276
Reply to T Clark That's the typical way ideas are presented. Consider that your opening set of moves. If your idea is well thought out to begin with, concept is supported by facts and reason, you have already questioned your concept, and can strongly deny that it is flawed. In terms of irrationality, you have an ability to think intuitively and imaginatively about the idea, and are ready to defend it with strong emotion but not too much irrationality whereupon you commit fallacy and lose. That is just using the pieces on the board. A well thought out idea is analog to a strong opening before the opponent comes in and you become reactive, potentially setting your pieces into disarray: your facts are questioned, your reason is denied, you are put on the defensive and your irrationality and questioning surround your concept, so are not attacking the opponent's concept. Will they be a strong enough defense or is your entire 'strategy' a weak overall argument that can fall against a Socratic method, or other philosophical method, many of which can not be represented by the pieces in the outlined chess set.
introbert October 17, 2022 at 22:06 #749279
Reply to Agent Smith Q=B+C did I know? Yes, it is an observation I have made before. Does it fit here that rationality + denial (or its negation) = irrationality. I think it does.

introbert October 17, 2022 at 22:17 #749283
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
This is a terrible idea.

Chess is illuminating because it presents questions that may be decidable in principle but are not, for humans, in practice. The alternating reliance on calculation and heuristics, with the goal of grounding a decision under uncertainty, is very reminiscent of philosophy, which rarely gives opportunities for decisive arguments and must content itself with persuasion. And you still calculate whenever you can.


Of course, there are non-dialectical methods of philosophy that are not argumentative, but as you say this uncertainty surrounding the making of decisive arguments and resorting to persuasion has a lot to do with the fallibility of the subject and the weaknesses that are revealed when encountering another mind. An idea that seems well thought out to one person based on their (his and her etc) knowledge and capacities may be a very weak game to someone else more experienced or better able.
introbert October 17, 2022 at 22:23 #749284
Reply to Ciceronianus "it takes two to tango", "philosophy most often is a solitary activity (it can be done alone)" Tango=/=philosophy

Chess takes two players as well, but believe it or not, a person can play themselves (him and her etc.) at chess.
introbert October 17, 2022 at 22:29 #749286
Reply to Alkis Piskas Yes, ironically, I do not find chess interesting, but I find philosophy interesting and think the two are similar.
T Clark October 18, 2022 at 00:32 #749309
Reply to introbert

That is not how I see philosophy. I don't do it that way either, not when I do it right.
Agent Smith October 18, 2022 at 01:39 #749323
Quoting introbert
Q=B+C did I know? Yes, it is an observation I have made before. Does it fit here that rationality + denial (or its negation) = irrationality. I think it does.


It looks very complicated from where I stand. Perhaps more advanced folks might be of greater assistance to you than me.
introbert October 18, 2022 at 16:22 #749501
Reply to Agent Smith Maybe in an extremely technical sense it is a difficult question, but the simple semantic meaning of irrationality conforms to that simple formula.

Alkis Piskas October 18, 2022 at 17:41 #749536
Reply to introbert
OK. BTW, I love both. :smile:

As for their similarity, I can't find anything that connects these two in a special way. You say, e.g. "thinking ahead in anticipation of how my argument or idea will be countered by an opponent." Well, this applies to most two-player board games, but also to sports (tennis, box ... you name it. It applies even in courts between defence and prosecution. In fact, it applies to most confrontations between two opponents.

But most of all, chess resembles to war. It's actually a "war" game. And I believe it is based on war, since all chessmen are war characters or elements. So, if philosophy resembles to chess, as you say, it certainly also resembles to war. Which sounds too weird.


Srap Tasmaner October 18, 2022 at 18:10 #749547
Quoting introbert
An idea that seems well thought out to one person based on their (his and her etc) knowledge and capacities may be a very weak game to someone else more experienced or better able.


That's right. In making a move, you put your ideas to the test, but it's not generally a dispositive test, only what another fallible player like yourself could come up with under the same constraints as you. These days, if you really want to know the truth, you'll ask Stockfish, but in the old days, you had to do your own analysis. A writer might give their analysis of a famous game between top-ranked players, only to be contradicted later by another writer who came up with some ideas the first writer overlooked.

And this is another way in which chess has, before the computer era at least, resembled philosophy, or the sciences: it is cumulative. There is voluminous accumulated knowledge on openings and endings, middlegame strategies and combinational patterns. The first really serious use of computers was in completing, and in some cases correcting, our knowledge of fundamental endings. Now they just do everything better than us.

None of which is really a surprise, because, as John von Neumann remarked, chess is not a game but a form a calculation. Of course it can be turned over to computers.

Whether there is some reason philosophy cannot be, is an open question.
180 Proof October 18, 2022 at 19:19 #749571
Chess is a finite syntactical game of strategy played within rigid parameters (64-checkered squares board & 32 pieces). Philosophy, however, is an infinite semantical meta-game of 'hermeneutics' played without rigid parameters. It seems to me that analogizing chess to philosophy (or vice versa) makes about as much sense as analogizing "Guitar Hero" to music theory.
introbert October 18, 2022 at 22:03 #749599
Quoting Alkis Piskas
As for their similarity, I can't find anything that connects these two in a special way. You say, e.g. "thinking ahead in anticipation of how my argument or idea will be countered by an opponent." Well, this applies to most two-player board games, but also to sports (tennis, box ... you name it. It applies even in courts between defence and prosecution. In fact, it applies to most confrontations between two opponents.

But most of all, chess resembles to war. It's actually a "war" game. And I believe it is based on war, since all chessmen are war characters or elements. So, if philosophy resembles to chess, as you say, it certainly also resembles to war. Which sounds too weird.


This is the fun with metaphor, that a seemingly unrelated object is used to make a point or to superimpose some quality from one disparate thing onto another. In the case of chess::philosophy, the chess-pieces superimpose an order onto the components of philosophical thought, as well as a dialectical nature found in two conflicting sides. I'm not going to go through the analogies between form and content of the pieces and the philosophy, as this has been done. The other games you mention could be used as a metaphor as well, but I find this one a richer allegory.

Yes, chess is a war game, but philosophy in the dialectical perspective is about conflict. To say that philosophy is war would not be accurate, but drawing a comparison between something about war and something about conflict is not a stretch.

Reply to Srap Tasmaner Reply to 180 Proof Both of your comments relate to the finitude of chess but the boundlessness of philosophy. A computer can easily calculate all the moves of chess, but philosophy is something like an Quoting 180 Proof
infinite semantical meta-game of 'hermeneutics' played without rigid parameters
. Of course, this is the way chess is not like philosophy, it doesn't have unlimited content. But in the platonic vision I have of the analogical nature of 'reality' the forms of philosophy which are abstract ideals are represented in the chess pieces, but represent a possibly limitless amount of real content. Irrationality represents one abstract ideal but it is so many varied real things as logical fallacies, to intuition, to emotion, to divination, to imagination and so much more.



Srap Tasmaner October 18, 2022 at 22:24 #749604
Quoting introbert
A computer can easily calculate all the moves of chess


Well no.

The number of possible chess games is so large that — here I'm guessing — we'd need quantum computers to actually decide chess. As of now, it is common knowledge that white has some advantage; the statistics have been clear for a long time. What isn't clear, and no computer has determined yet, is whether that advantage is sufficient to win. Which just tells you that the concept of "advantage" is still, even with computer chess, a little tricky.

Point being: chess being still undecided, computers are not in a qualitatively different position from us; they just have infallible memories, fewer biases (nowadays, not at the beginning), and can calculate very much faster.

But there are also techniques to achieving such successes. Robert Kowalski, a key early figure in logic programming (especially the development of Prolog) and thus early AI, has suggested that humans might consider — instead of trying only to get them to think like us — learning to think a bit more like them.
introbert October 18, 2022 at 22:28 #749606
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
Well no.


Quoting Srap Tasmaner
— here I'm guessing —


That's my excuse.

Agent Smith October 19, 2022 at 02:35 #749660
Quoting introbert
Maybe in an extremely technical sense it is a difficult question, but the simple semantic meaning of irrationality conforms to that simple formula.


What is this formula you're talking about?
Alkis Piskas October 19, 2022 at 07:52 #749703
Reply to introbert
OK,. I accept your analogy. I don't want to spoil it more! :smile:
Agent Smith October 19, 2022 at 08:56 #749711
Quoting introbert
Maybe in an extremely technical sense it is a difficult question, but the simple semantic meaning of irrationality conforms to that simple formula


Sorry for the double post. Irrationality, what is it?
introbert October 19, 2022 at 11:01 #749726
Reply to Agent Smith A variety of things. It can be considered a type of passion such as being persistent about an argument. It can be considered the opposite of reason. It can be a way of acquiring knowledge, such as by intuition, imagination or divination. It can be a type of position such as nihilist, solipsism, or sophistry. And more but the work-bell has just rung.

Edit: as in sophistry, using fallacies such as false appeals etc. but even these can be powerful. Taking an extreme position is also irrational which is ironic in the case of extreme rationality such as scientism. Naturally a moral position is irrational if one argues in the virtues of immorality or amorality. Anything analogous to mental disorder such as postmodernism=schizophrenia or using paranoia to delve into the hidden motivations, inspirations, intentions and consequences etc. of a particular position. Having a fixed idea is also an irrational problem in philosophy but this kind of obsession can result in getting lots of mental work done. My own fixation on irony is about something irrational because it is about a discrepancy between idea and reality. Work-bell again.

There are also irrational states such as being angry, or under the influence of drugs such as mescaline which some claim to have transcendental effects. Some forms of transcendence especially when the thing being transcended is the basis for rationality like experience in empiricism or the moral order in transvaluation. Thinking about philosophy idly is an irrational practice compared to methodical, disciplined work. There is much more actually but lunch is almost over.

So to attempt a definition of irrationality in isolation is difficult, but as the opposite or absence or negation of rationality is easiest. Rationality is not just one thing like logic, it is a number of things like objectivity, empiricism, following rules, being of sound mind, making sense, organized, following a method and more.
Agent Smith October 20, 2022 at 02:38 #749923
Reply to introbert

Quoting introbert
So to attempt a definition of irrationality in isolation is difficult, but as the opposite or absence or negation of rationality is easiest


As the opposite/absence/negation of rationality, ok. What is rationality then?
180 Proof October 20, 2022 at 07:42 #749959
Quoting introbert
Irrationality represents one abstract ideal but it is so many varied real things as logical fallacies, to intuition, to emotion, to divination, to imagination and so much more.

The antithesis of philosophy (i.e. reflective / dialectical discursive practices aka "reason").
introbert October 20, 2022 at 16:28 #750110
Reply to Agent Smith I'll attempt two definitions one "irrational" and another "rational".

Irrational: Rationality is conformity in thought and action to socially constructed regimes of truth that determine what is done and said as well as forms the basis for evaluating in a moral sense what is deemed true or false, right or wrong and good or bad.

Rational: Rationality is the objective, logical and empirical basis of thought and action that establishes norms for forming consensus on what is considered true or false, right or wrong and good and bad.

Reply to 180 Proof I sympathise (emotionally) with your position about rationality, and irrationality as the antithesis of philosophy. However, irrationality is too vast a field to be banished by broad strokes from philosophy. There is much to say on the topic from classical greek philosophy to Kierkegaard and Nietzsche, but I will not appeal to irrationalism's role in the history of philosophical thought. My own fixation on irony which is reducible to discrepancy between idea and reality is irrational but it connects to postmodernism and the irrational definition that precedes this paragraph. A definition of rationalism that is relativistic or contingent is opposed to the expectations of objectivity and realism that would be found in a contemporary definition. To deny irrationality in philosophy would be to deny descent in the face of sanctions used to preserve the established rules. If objectivity is deindividuating, a subjective individual position appears irrational to a social group that has established norms based on this value.
Agent Smith October 21, 2022 at 02:22 #750288
Reply to introbert Rationality can get you killed (vide Socrates, death by hemlock).
introbert October 21, 2022 at 09:49 #750348
Reply to Agent Smith Socrates used logic but was not rational in the sense that he was often challenging the basic ideas of Athenian society. It is fundamentally irrational to do something that can get you killed.
Agent Smith October 21, 2022 at 09:51 #750351
Quoting introbert
Socrates used logic but was not rational in the sense that he was often challenging the basic ideas of Athenian society. It is fundamentally irrational to do something that can get you killed.


Right you are amigo! Socrates was irrational but logical, si? Care to expand on the difference between the two?
introbert October 21, 2022 at 10:49 #750359
Reply to Agent Smith It's possibly complicated, but I look at it as something fairly simple. At bottom I think people are basically irrational. With effort we can train our minds to think with skill, using logic and empirical methods etc. I see being dichotomously dual natured, irrational-rational, as being more plausible than being completely one or the other. There are other such things as individual-collective: no man is an island but everyone is an individual. So irrational-logical features this dichotomy, which is embodied in the ironic nature of Socrates' method of feigning ignorance, but then using logic and questioning. I conclude feigning ignorance is an irrational method for the simple reason that it uses deception. To lie is not a rational practice in most situations. That someone can behave irrationally, but think logically, is not nearly unprecedented. It is a regular occurrence to argue with anger, which is an irrational state, in a logical way. Just because two things are opposing doesn't mean they cant exist at the same time, or are unstable together.