The 2020 PhilPapers Survey

Banno November 19, 2022 at 21:31 7200 views 48 comments
https://survey2020.philpeople.org

I just became aware of this. A new survey of 1785 English-speaking philosophers from around the world on 100 philosophical questions.

Turns out you are probably safe to cross a bridge with a philosopher, who will most likely be an atheist and a socialist and will pull the leaver on the trolly.

Extended mind comes out in front by a fair margin, the Chinese Room does not understand Chinese, philosophy is mainly about conceptual analysis.

Non-skeptical realism remains far ahead of idealism.

Comments (48)

jgill November 19, 2022 at 21:35 #757590
Quoting Banno
A new survey of 1785 English-speaking philosophers


Why is the year 1785 considered special? :chin:

:cool:
Banno November 19, 2022 at 21:54 #757592
Reply to jgill Very droll.

More philosophers were agnostic than structuralist or constructivist with regard to mathematics, but 38% think the continuum hypothesis determinate, 29% think it indeterminate, and 27% are undecided.

Is there any similar survey of mathematicians? The comparison might be amusing...
jgill November 19, 2022 at 22:23 #757598
Quoting Banno
Is there any similar survey of mathematicians? The comparison might be amusing..


I'm not aware of any, but there may be. I've never associated with a fellow mathematician who had more than a passing curiosity about the CH. Set theory and transfinites in particular were not applicable to our studies in complex analysis. From what I've seen on arXiv.org there's not a lot of current interest in this subject.

Determinate? Well, you can tack it on as another axiom to ZFC I suppose.
T Clark November 20, 2022 at 17:46 #757688
Quoting Banno
I just became aware of this. A new survey of 1785 English-speaking philosophers from around the world on 100 philosophical questions.


As I went through the questions and answers, my main thought was "Geez, no wonder people think philosophy is bullshit."
Moliere November 20, 2022 at 18:51 #757699
Reply to Banno Was surprised by the overwhelming majority of people who believed in a priori knowledge. Though I bet, with a few questions, the majority could split up (a priori in relation to a posteriori, or a priori as defined, or a priori as general structures of the brain(EDIT:) or a priori as in "what else could math be?"...)
Moliere November 20, 2022 at 18:53 #757700
Reply to T Clark Yeh, in general, people aren't creative enough to see the connections between the abstract questions philosophers ask and the lives they live.

But people have beliefs on these things -- just usually indistinct. Philosophers, on the whole, prefer more detail than most people care for.
180 Proof November 20, 2022 at 23:50 #757735
Banno November 21, 2022 at 00:15 #757740
Reply to Moliere Much the same might be said of any academic survey.
Moliere November 21, 2022 at 00:18 #757743
Reply to Banno Yeh, true.

People who like detail more than most people like detail more than most people... :D Fair enough.
Cuthbert November 21, 2022 at 13:46 #757833
"Post-modernism - worth a mention or ignore completely?" Ignore.

"Any philosopher living in the last seventy years - name-check or not bothered?" Nah.

Still, interesting for what it's worth.
Hanover November 21, 2022 at 15:44 #757861
Quoting Banno
I just became aware of this. A new survey of 1785 English-speaking philosophers from around the world on 100 philosophical questions.


You're getting old my friend. You talked about this a year ago

here..
Cuthbert November 21, 2022 at 20:27 #757920
An obscure reason to keep your weight down, if you need it, is that if you stay slim then you will be safe on bridges where some disaster is happening below that might be prevented by a fat person being pitched over the edge by a philosopher who unluckily and perhaps mistakenly holds the view that it's the right thing to do.
jgill November 21, 2022 at 20:45 #757924
Quoting Cuthbert
. . . . . fat person being pitched over the edge by a philosopher who unluckily and perhaps mistakenly holds the view that it's the right thing to do.


I think this needs a thread elucidating this important train of thought. Why might a philosopher think this is the right thing to do? If she is an analytic type it could make sense, provided she is also into foundations of mathematics. But if she be in ethics, then that is a whole other can of worms!
Banno November 21, 2022 at 20:52 #757925
Reply to Hanover That was the 2009 survey...

But yes, I am getting old.
javra November 22, 2022 at 16:09 #758070
Reply to Cuthbert Reply to jgill

It always struck me as odd that a bunch of numbskulls oblivious to the fact that a train is about to hit them should be rescued so as to live and reproduce in favor of killing an individual that, in one way or another, has no evident stupidity to speak of. … A kind of Darwin Awards handed to those who so select for the human species’ gene pool.

p.s. I should add: that whole intentional killing of a person thing aside.
Cuthbert November 23, 2022 at 08:31 #758211
I think the point (whimsy aside) is to distinguish the original trolley problem, where deaths are caused incidentally to saving lives, from a situation in which a death is caused deliberately in order to save lives. I flip the switch on the trolley, knowing that people will die (though more will be saved). Is this morally different from pushing a man over a bridge and killing him deliberately in order that more lives will be saved? One defence of abortion grants that the fetus is a human being with full rights but that in order to save a woman's life the death of the fetus is incidental, because (as it happens) the woman's life cannot be saved without sacrificing the fetus. An objection to this defence is that the distinction between killing the fetus incidentally and killing it deliberately is a distinction without a moral difference. It's a curious cartoon of a fat man on a bridge but it is, as the saying goes, a thing.
javra November 23, 2022 at 17:03 #758323
Quoting Cuthbert
I flip the switch on the trolley, knowing that people will die (though more will be saved). Is this morally different from pushing a man over a bridge and killing him deliberately in order that more lives will be saved?


No, it's not morally different. No more than would be pulling the trigger of a gun - flipping its switch, so to speak - so as to accomplish the same result via the same means. One could even address the pushing of red buttons so as to launch nukes with the same overall intent.

Whimsy aside, though we all like to believe people are all of equal value when we intellectualize, in our everyday lives we judge very differently - and maybe, at least at times, this for good reasons. Making things other than a simple numbers game. For instance, most would consider it ethically wrong to cause the death of one Einstein or one Gandhi so as to save a thousand Hitlers (neo-Nazis excluded). In many versions of the trolley problem (such as the one where a person is pushed off of a bridge), what can be known beforehand - all else being equal - is that one would sacrifice an innocent bystander to rescue a plurality of people that give no heed to the sounds of an approaching train while standing on train tracks. Here is a question of relative value, including that of merit, rather than one of strict numbers.

But adjust the trolley problem's parameters and the ethical issues drastically change: e.g., five captive people tied down to train tracks by some assailant vs. one bystander. It's still a question of value - is the value of the five captives more than that of the one bystander? - and here it seems far more appropriate to deem "yes". This despite there yet being a lot of unknowns in terms of who these people are. But we live with risks in the choices we make all the time.

Btw, while a different thread might indeed be appropriate for this topic, as jgill says, I'm not prepared to start one.
Banno November 23, 2022 at 22:48 #758375
Quoting jgill
I think this needs a thread elucidating this important train of thought.


I already did that for another of your stray ideas, achieving nothing.

Quoting javra
...a bunch of numbskulls oblivious to the fact that a train is about to hit them...
The origin of what is now called the trolley problem is an article by Philippa Foot , the point of which was to draw attention to the Doctrine of Double Effect. Reply to Cuthbert seems to be aware of it's place in relation to discussions of abortion.

Foot's article, in the link above, is immediately followed by Anscombe's quibble. At stake was the logic of intentionality, but now the argument is used to amuse neophytes.

(I've no objection to discussing this here rather than in another thread.)
jgill November 24, 2022 at 05:45 #758412
Quoting Banno
I think this needs a thread elucidating this important train of thought. — jgill

I already did that for another of your stray ideas, achieving nothing.


As you well should. A joke. :cool:

To achieve nothing on TPF is refreshingly consistent. :wink:
Banno November 24, 2022 at 06:06 #758415
Quoting jgill
To achieve nothing on TPF is refreshingly consistent. :wink:


One might do worse than not to add to the net total of confusion hereabouts.
DingoJones November 24, 2022 at 17:55 #758488
Hilarious how many major philosophical inquiries are pretty close to an even split despite being discussed and debated for centuries.

So academic philosophy is a complete joke. Roger that.

Banno November 24, 2022 at 22:31 #758550
Reply to DingoJones Why should that be a surprise. Any topic on which there is general agreement would not be interesting enough to include in the survey.
DingoJones November 25, 2022 at 00:04 #758557
Reply to Banno

That depends on the purpose of the survey. A survey doesnt have to be philosophically interesting ( assuming thats what you mean by interesting) , generally their purpose is to inform. In this case, more like expose.

The fact that even the trained professional philosophers are split fairly evenly on virtually every philosophical query makes it an academic parody. What then does philosophy offer? To what purpose is academic training in philosophy if they offer the same lack of conclusion as a layman?
Those so trained speak with a totally disproportionate amount of confidence on these topics given how little definitive conclusions the academic apparatus actually offers.
I wonder if perhaps academic philosophy is going to turn out to be the last religion to die. Murder/suicide?
Cuthbert November 25, 2022 at 09:38 #758621
Quoting DingoJones
What then does philosophy offer?


Ways of clarifying questions to which there is going to be no indisputable answer. Ways of weighing up the costs and benefits of coming out firmly on one side or another. Ways of understanding the confusion that underlies some questions before rushing into giving answers.

A philosopher who fights confidently and consistently for an untenable position is also doing a service by showing up the epistemic cost of a theory. This is part of what Austin meant in paying tribute to the philosopher who makes a "first-water, ground-floor mistake".

There are plenty of places to go for undisputed answers to difficult questions. E.g. sign up for Twitter and block everything you disagree with. Job done.
DingoJones November 25, 2022 at 16:06 #758668
Quoting Cuthbert
Ways of clarifying questions to which there is going to be no indisputable answer. Ways of weighing up the costs and benefits of coming out firmly on one side or another. Ways of understanding the confusion that underlies some questions before rushing into giving answers.


All of which are accomplished with careful thought, academic philosophy isnt necessary.
Its not like there are a minority of disputes like in other fields, its all but one of the major issues philosophy is supposed to address! Centuries on some of these!

Quoting Cuthbert
There are plenty of places to go for undisputed answers to difficult questions. E.g. sign up for Twitter and block everything you disagree with. Job done.


Its not about an undisputed answer, I understand that dissenting opinions exist in all areas of study.
Look at this study/poll, its an even split on the majority of issues. It shows that academic philosophy is the mastabatory exercise of wishy washy airheads that the public at large has always taken it for.

Cuthbert November 25, 2022 at 16:56 #758677
Quoting DingoJones
Centuries on some of these!


Millenia. I'm thinking about Athens. The philosopher can be seen as a wishy washy airhead, as you say - Thales falling into a well because he's looking up at the stars. Another stereotype is the philosopher as undermining common sense and received wisdom and morality - Socrates corrupting the young by questioning accepted values. A third image is of the philosopher as an intellectual conjuror and trickster - the Sophist, able to persuade us that black is white. Perhaps there is room also for the one who is a careful thinker - and the world will be a better place when the rulers become careful thinkers or careful thinkers become rulers (to adapt Plato).

There is yet another category, which is the philosopher living their philosophy of the good life - the sage, prophet or mystic. That is very out of fashion, although I would cite Peter Singer as a great example of the rare breed.
DingoJones November 25, 2022 at 18:52 #758689
Reply to Cuthbert

I agree, that is why ive attempted a distinction between all of that and academic philosophy.
Banno November 25, 2022 at 20:45 #758702
Reply to DingoJones

Trite.

Can you locate a similar survey in some other discipline, and so demonstrate that there is no similar bifurcation?

Again, and as acknowledged by the editors, the choice of questions is arbitrary. it may well be set to find those that have toughly equal presentation on both sides.

If you would maintain that this is something more than a bias in question selection, you will have to do some more work.

DingoJones November 26, 2022 at 04:00 #758742
Quoting Banno
Can you locate a similar survey in some other discipline, and so demonstrate that there is no similar bifurcation?


No need for a survey, such is the obviousness of the examples in other disciplines. We would first have to agree which other disciplines are fair comparisons.

Quoting Banno
Again, and as acknowledged by the editors, the choice of questions is arbitrary. it may well be set to find those that have toughly equal presentation on both sides.


So the survey is the joke. I see.

Quoting Banno
If you would maintain that this is something more than a bias in question selection, you will have to do some more work.


I dont think its out of line to take the survey at face value. Maybe it shows nothing of value, but if its arbitrary and biased and you decided to share it then maybe you have some work to do.

Banno November 26, 2022 at 05:10 #758743
Reply to DingoJones :confused:
Whatever.
DingoJones November 26, 2022 at 07:32 #758744
Reply to Banno

What? I felt like those were fair points.
Cuthbert November 28, 2022 at 08:38 #759055
Quoting DingoJones
I agree, that is why ive attempted a distinction between all of that and academic philosophy.


I don't think academic vs non-academic is the place to put the boundary. Peter Singer is an academic, for example. There is a lot of woolly thinking outside the academe and a lot of sharp thinking inside it.

But I have some sympathy with your complaint. I admit I graduated in 1979 with the thought - "Now Wittgenstein has proved the vacuousness of metaphysics I suppose that's the end of it." But still we debate whether the lump of clay and the statue are one thing or two. It's partly because the confusions arise from deep problems with our thought and language which will repeatedly resurface. I'm prepared to admit that it's partly a desire to play with ideas just because they are there. You put it more derogatorily but I don't entirely reject the complaint.
DingoJones November 28, 2022 at 21:46 #759183
Quoting Cuthbert
I don't think academic vs non-academic is the place to put the boundary. Peter Singer is an academic, for example. There is a lot of woolly thinking outside the academe and a lot of sharp thinking inside it.


I would say that says more about Pinker than in does about academia. I think you are talking about whats being brought to academia from outside its confines, leaving my point about academia itself standing.
What has academic philosophy taught its students if most of the main issues cannot be decided by that education?

Quoting Cuthbert
But I have some sympathy with your complaint. I admit I graduated in 1979 with the thought - "Now Wittgenstein has proved the vacuousness of metaphysics I suppose that's the end of it." But still we debate whether the lump of clay and the statue are one thing or two. It's partly because the confusions arise from deep problems with our thought and language which will repeatedly resurface. I'm prepared to admit that it's partly a desire to play with ideas just because they are there. You put it more derogatorily but I don't entirely reject the complaint.


I tend to agree that there are deeper problems with thought and language when it comes to philosophy, but this falls under the purview of academic philosophy’s responsibility.
What would we say about geology if there was close to an even split between about how old the earth is, how mountains are formed, whether or not the ice age created modern waterways and whether or not diamonds form from coal? We would say “what a joke, get your shit together geology”.
I could have made my point in less harshly but it seems like we have a harsh reality about academic philosophy on our hands. Also, I meant it lightheartedly if that matters. I should have used some emojo’s I guess.
Cuthbert November 29, 2022 at 09:38 #759330
Quoting DingoJones
We would say “what a joke, get your shit together geology"


Would we? How superficial of us, thinking that unanswered questions mean sloppiness.

Quoting DingoJones
says more about Pinker


Pinker is a different philosopher, distinguished by his large mop of curly hair. Peter Singer has lost a lot of his hair, along with a big slice of his income.

Quoting DingoJones
I should have used some emojo’s I guess.


:flower:
bert1 November 29, 2022 at 11:57 #759344
Quoting DingoJones
Hilarious how many major philosophical inquiries are pretty close to an even split despite being discussed and debated for centuries.

So academic philosophy is a complete joke. Roger that.


Quoting Cuthbert
But I have some sympathy with your complaint.


My take on this is that philosophical questions may well have been correctly answered already. But we don't have a way of settling the dispute easily. In science, the scientific method eventually compels dissenters, at least amongst scientists (not flat earthers). In philosophy, it's easier to maintain a dissenting position, as consulting the physical world rarely settles the dispute.
DingoJones December 01, 2022 at 13:38 #759753
Quoting bert1
My take on this is that philosophical questions may well have been correctly answered already. But we don't have a way of settling the dispute easily. In science, the scientific method eventually compels dissenters, at least amongst scientists (not flat earthers). In philosophy, it's easier to maintain a dissenting position, as consulting the physical world rarely settles the dispute.


Well that is my point…if philosophy is so easy to dispute, so easily justifying of opposing views, isnt that a bit of a joke academically speaking? An academic discipline so lacking doesnt seem to belong.
bert1 December 01, 2022 at 13:48 #759755
Reply to DingoJones On the contrary, this is just to say that philosophy isn't science, and isn't supposed to be. However there can be rigor in the conceptual analysis, examination of inferences, clarifying concepts, mapping the theoretical possibilities (or interpretations of them). Philosophers can and should fix the sloppy thinking when they find it in other disciplines.
Manuel December 01, 2022 at 14:01 #759756
It's an interesting poll(s) result. Though compared to other fields of enquiry, consensus in philosophy is very far from being a sign we are thinking about something correctly.

I mean, if such a poll were to be taken before the 17th century, most European philosophers would likely be dualists.

And the determinism thing continues to be a bit puzzling. It made sense in Newton's time, but now we know that physics tells us that the world is at bottom probabilistic, not deterministic.

Either way, I doubt physics tells us anything about free will.

Still, it's good information to have. Thanks for sharing.
DingoJones December 01, 2022 at 14:14 #759759
Quoting bert1
On the contrary, this is just to say that philosophy isn't science, and isn't supposed to be. However there can be rigor in the conceptual analysis, examination of inferences, clarifying concepts, mapping the theoretical possibilities (or interpretations of them). Philosophers can and should fix the sloppy thinking when they find it in other disciplines.


Im not saying philosophy is science. I'm talking about academic value. Im open minded as to what would constitute a fair comparison, as some academic disciplines (like mathematics) lend themselves to more concrete conclusions.
How can you call academic philosophy rigorous when the results of that “rigor” are inconclusive on so many major philosophical issues?
bert1 December 01, 2022 at 14:19 #759760
Quoting DingoJones
How can you call academic philosophy rigorous when the results of that “rigor” are inconclusive on so many major philosophical issues?


The results are conclusive. Many philosophical problems have been correctly solved. It's just we can't agree on which ones and in what way, because there we don't have a clear enough objective thing that we all have equal access to that we can consult.
DingoJones December 01, 2022 at 14:39 #759765
Reply to bert1

How do you know they have been correctly solved?
How can you call a result conclusive when there is an near even split about what the conclusion is?!
bert1 December 01, 2022 at 14:54 #759771
Quoting DingoJones
How do you know they have been correctly solved?


Because the solution in question is the most reasonable of the options.


DingoJones December 01, 2022 at 15:35 #759777
Reply to bert1

Quoting DingoJones
How can you call a result conclusive when there is an near even split about what the conclusion is?!


bert1 December 01, 2022 at 19:46 #759885
Reply to DingoJones Depends what we mean by 'conclusive' I guess. I don't think it entails agreement. I can find something to conclusively be the case. But someone else might think I'm completely mistaken.
DingoJones December 01, 2022 at 20:11 #759909
Quoting bert1
Depends what we mean by 'conclusive' I guess. I don't think it entails agreement. I can find something to conclusively be the case. But someone else might think I'm completely mistaken.


“Conclusive” according to other academic standards. I previously used a geology example: in geology there is disagreement about specific details, as with philosophy. Fair. We could go down the list until eventually to major questions, in geology whether the world is flat or round for example. If for all such major questions about geology it was a near split, geology would have a big problem. If roughly half the geologists thought the earth was flat, geology would quickly become a punchline. A joke.
This poll shows that philosophy has this problem. The experts have spent centuries or more and still can’t give us a reliable conclusion (the weight of all the experts on one side or the other, rather than more close to evenly divided).
bert1 December 01, 2022 at 20:51 #759948
Quoting DingoJones
The experts have spent centuries or more and still can’t give us a reliable conclusion


Half of the the experts have given us a reliable conclusion, and the other half haven't.

DingoJones December 01, 2022 at 23:01 #760009
Reply to bert1

oh ya? Which half? :shade:
Obviously we are talking about all the experts, not half of them. What you said makes no sense in the context of this discussion.
bert1 December 01, 2022 at 23:03 #760010
Quoting DingoJones
Which half?


The correct half