Ukraine Crisis - By Olivier5

Caldwell December 12, 2022 at 02:57 1950 views 48 comments
Often I check on this forum devoted to the SMO in Ukraine. Mostly guys yelling at one another, but there is this poster, "Custine", dropping tart aphorisms I kinda like. E.g.:

"In Russia, whatever the appearance of things, violence and arbitrary rule is at the bottom of them all."

It took me some time to get that these were quotes from Russia in 1839, by Marquis de Custine, an imitator of Tocqueville. The book he published in Paris, after meeting a clique of aristocrats in Saint Petersbourg and Moscow, drips with the usual western contempt for our mother Russia. At times it rings tragically true though, and current.

So I posted another quote of his:

"In that country, a sincere man would be taken for an idiot."

The sucker PMed me: "You like Custine?" We chatted a bit. I think he liked me, or rather my pretense of your average American dude. I got his IP easily. Turns out he's Russian. Emigrated to the US in 2015. He teaches Russian literature at NYU, Tolstoy Pushkin Dostoevsky... I saw his lectures on Youtube. Pretty boring!

Regardless, I'm gonna drop spyware on him, just in case.

Comments (48)

Vera Mont December 12, 2022 at 03:24 #763037
Doesn't have a lot to do with Ukraine, but I love the last line.
Quoting Caldwell
"In that country, a sincere man would be taken for an idiot."

I guess Dostoevsky took him up on that.
Banno December 12, 2022 at 03:38 #763038
I thought this competition was for fiction, not confession.
Shawn December 12, 2022 at 03:43 #763039
I've heard of talent; but this takes the cake.
Mikie December 12, 2022 at 03:58 #763040
Got me to chuckle, so thumbs up.
javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 06:15 #763052
Quoting Banno
I thought this competition was for fiction, not confession.


:up:

This one is not a short story at all. The author just shared an experience with a thread of the forum. It is far away from all the other stories where the authors put effort on them.
Jamal December 12, 2022 at 06:20 #763054
Reply to javi2541997 It might be fictional as far as we know. At least, I don’t think the events of the story happened on this forum.
javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 06:44 #763059
Reply to Jamal Yeah, it is fictional but the plot and scenario are not imaginative enough (even the title is literally the same of the main thread)
The author just switched the name of one user and mixed up the conversation with a story of spies.
It is like if I write a short story based on a PM I had with you. I switch your name and cause and then, I write it. At least I personally don't see it "imaginative"

At least that's how I see it :eyes:
Jamal December 12, 2022 at 06:49 #763060
Reply to javi2541997 Yes, I don't disagree.
javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 07:09 #763066
Caldwell December 12, 2022 at 07:19 #763067
I gave it a thumbs up, like Mikie and Shawn.

*I'm supposed to be in bed, but I couldn't let this one go tonight without saying anything -- hence, a headache at the moment* :shade:

This is very Edgar Allan Poe-esque. Cleverly written in plain, salty language -- the injury of the insult caused by Custine, the plotting by our hero -- the baiting of the "enemy", then finally the revenge.

The title is forgivable -- it rings tragically true, and current -- says our hero.

Goodnight.
Amity December 12, 2022 at 09:34 #763078
Reply to Caldwell
:clap: :clap: :clap:

A quick response in delight at this micro-fiction response to a dare.
For context:

Amity:As one scrolls down the list of discussion topics and 200 word story titles, they start bleeding together as equally plausible titles.
— Bitter Crank

I dare someone to write a story with 'Ukraine Crisis' as title :scream:


In the Short Story 4 discussion thread, the challenge was met with this gem:
Vera Mont:
Ukraine Crisis

Crazy Zelenskyy applied to join NATO and crazy Putin launched a crazy war, and everybody got sucked in. Between sanctions and somebody blowing up pipelines, the price of oil went up and all the taxes on gas, so transport costs went up and the grocery chains used the excuse to jack up prices way beyond their cost increase, which is causing inflation, but my wages didn't go up to cover the difference. So I didn't have enough money for groceries and beer. I think there's still some packs of ramen in the cupboard. Want a beer?


Interesting responses so far:

Quoting Banno
I thought this competition was for fiction, not confession.


Quoting Mikie
Got me to chuckle, so thumbs up.


Quoting javi2541997
This one is not a short story at all. The author just shared an experience with a thread of the forum. It is far away from all the other stories where the authors put effort on them.


I disagree with those that suggest it is not short story fiction. It might very well be based on the experience of the original 'Ukraine Crisis' thread. But this, as a countermeasure, is exactly what I had hoped for!

Previously:
Amity :I want it as an entry so that it pops up on the Front Page.
To confuse and disturb the occupants of the siege of the 'Ukraine Crisis' thread.
Which is as far away from micro as you can imagine.
And keeps on and on; sucking the life out of TPF. (in my opinion)
Not that I've looked in lately.


It was kinda tongue-in-cheek, so please no warriors hunting me down, pretty please :pray:
We are having fun; playing with imagination and perspectives.
My suggestion that:
If there's more than one entry, they can have numbers attached.
Like in Die Hard.

was met with Vera's:
There's a kiss'o'death! :smile:

Again, I disagree with @javi2541997's:

Quoting javi2541997
Yeah, it is fictional but the plot and scenario are not imaginative enough (even the title is literally the same of the main thread)
The author just switched the name of one user and mixed up the conversation with a story of spies.
It is like if I write a short story based on a PM I had with you. I switch your name and cause and then, I write it. At least I personally don't see it "imaginative"


Perhaps now you better understand why the same title!
It is not a case of substituting names. It is imaginative and I look forward to a closer reading.
unenlightened December 12, 2022 at 09:46 #763080
By far the best of the only one I read all the way through.
Amity December 12, 2022 at 09:48 #763081
Reply to unenlightened :up: :sparkle:

What kept your interest and why did you enjoy it so?

Edit:
Quoting unenlightened
...the only one I read all the way through.


Might sound a bit disrespectful to other authors but at least you tried.
Of course, not everyone has the time or inclination to wade through so many entries.
Some are immediately attracted to a certain topic or theme and look no further.
Perhaps their loss...but each to his own.
javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 10:15 #763082
Reply to Amity That's what I missed in this story: imagination. I don't deny it is fictional but the effort of the author was vague.
The rest of the stories are full of imagination: characters, scenarios, plot, words, intrigue, etc... they developed a short story by their own imaginative skills.
Again, that's how I see it and we are not forced to like all the stories :blush: and that's I see why most of the members like this story: the simplistic is catching.

Again, it is just my own opinion but this is about imagination skills and for me this story is lazy. Switching names: boring.
Amity December 12, 2022 at 10:23 #763085
Quoting javi2541997
...that's I see why most of the members like this story: the simplistic is catching.

Again, it is just my own opinion but this is about imagination skills and for me this story is lazy. Switching names: boring.


Catching the 'simplistic'.
There is simply no hope for you :brow:
javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 10:24 #763086
Reply to Amity

What I mean: the easiest of read, the easier to be liked.

Amity December 12, 2022 at 10:26 #763087
Quoting javi2541997
What I mean: the easiest of read, the easier to be liked.


You think that is 'why most of the members like this story'?
Outlander December 12, 2022 at 10:50 #763088
Quoting Amity
You think that is 'why most of the members like this story'?


I liked it because I didn't know I was reading a story. "The bloody thing tricked me!"

It was also somewhat eldritch- as if someone made a thread mocking or disparaging another thread than before you know it an innocent enough man was vilified and victimized, placing the reader in the cusp of a spy vs. spy thriller with a vague backdrop of wry humor along the way.
Amity December 12, 2022 at 11:06 #763091
Quoting Outlander
I liked it because I didn't know I was reading a story. "The bloody thing tricked me!"


:lol: Caught more micro readers, yay! The author did well.

Don't really know about 'eldritch' and haven't had time to read it properly.
Your description is inviting :cool:



javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 11:12 #763092
Quoting Amity
You think that is 'why most of the members like this story'?


Exactly. As why best sellers sell millions of copies. Because of their easy read :blush:
javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 11:13 #763093
Quoting Amity
Caught more micro readers, yay!


It is not a positive view in my own thought. Do not force me to like it Amity! :rofl:
Amity December 12, 2022 at 11:21 #763095
Reply to javi2541997 Reply to javi2541997

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink :sparkle:
javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 11:33 #763097
Reply to Amity En fin, corre más un galgo que un mastín... :flower: :sparkle:
Amity December 12, 2022 at 11:49 #763098
Reply to javi2541997 :up:
Never heard that before. In full translation:

"In short, the greyhound runs more than the mastiff; But if the road is long, the mastiff runs more than the greyhound."

***
[An aside]
In politics:
Quoting If the road is long - Spain - El Pais
This popular sentence could reduce the hopes of the Government of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero. Resist the onslaught of the crisis, not faint, and wait for a new situation to allow access to another perspective in the vision of Spanish society....

Wonder how that could be applied to the Ukraine Crisis :chin:
But no, that's another discussion. Another place... ]
***

Re this story and your response. Who is the greyhound and who the mastiff?
Amity December 12, 2022 at 11:59 #763100
Quoting javi2541997
Caught more micro readers, yay!
— Amity

It is not a positive view in my own thought


Why is it not positive for more TPF participants to be lured into the Short Story 4 - Microfiction thread?
javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 12:22 #763103
Reply to Amity the saying can be applied for both politics and real life. If you interpret it in a political view you will not understand what I tried to say. I meant that whatever I say I would not convince you and the things still remain as the beginning of this debate. (Doesn't matter if the way is short or long, the greyhound is faster than the mastiff. The debate about about the road is careless)

Quoting Amity
Why is it not positive for more TPF participants to be lured into the Short Story 4 - Microfiction thread?


The negative view is only in my mind, Amity. When I published my short story I didn't expect good comments but at least some members take part on it. That's what makes me happy... I mean people debating about the story and taking some notes to improve the next time rather than say "excellent" "the only one I read" as a previous user said (disrespecting the other stories)

But again, it is just my view and perspective. I understood this was not a competitive contest but a praxis to show our imagination skills.
Amity December 12, 2022 at 13:02 #763109
Reply to javi2541997
I am not sure you understand the point I was making:
It related to encouraging more TPF members into the Exhibition/Contest.
That is:
I think it is good to have more people reading the stories, don't you?

***
Quoting javi2541997
"the only one I read" as a previous user said (disrespecting the other stories)


NB. It was the only one he read 'all the way through'.
I think not everyone has the time or inclination to read all the stories to the very end.
That doesn't necessarily show disrespect.
Consider that you too could be open to accusations of not paying full attention or respect to this story.
Rightly or wrongly.

Also to the readers:

Quoting javi2541997
You think that is 'why most of the members like this story'?
— Amity
Exactly. As why best sellers sell millions of copies. Because of their easy read


***

Quoting javi2541997
I meant that whatever I say I would not convince you and the things still remain as the beginning of this debate. (Doesn't matter if the way is short or long, the greyhound is faster than the mastiff. The debate about about the road is careless)


Thanks for the clarification. That is not how I understood the proverb.

Perhaps you are like the greyhound; speedily reaching a conclusion without taking time for closer reading and appreciation. Quick to judge and dismiss...
Slow and steady wins the race.

Enough already. I understand your view as you do mine. That's fine :sparkle:
Amity December 12, 2022 at 13:10 #763111
Reply to Caldwell
I hope you feel better today. A lovely response to the story. I'm now gonna have to visit Edgar :nerd:
Olivier5 December 12, 2022 at 13:23 #763113
Quoting Caldwell
The title is forgivable


I understand that the title was mandatory, as per @Amity's dare. The author could have stuck to it better by making the victim a Ukrainian, teaching Ukrainian literature.
javi2541997 December 12, 2022 at 13:25 #763114
Reply to Amity I see you take it so personally. I guess this is your story and you did not like my comments so I am sorry because it wasn't my intention to hurt you.

Anyway, we finish here our discussion and I leave you alone and don't disturb you in your analysis.
Amity December 12, 2022 at 13:29 #763115
Quoting Olivier5
I understand that the title was mandatory, as per Amity's dare. The author could have stuck to it better by making the victim a Ukrainian, teaching Ukrainian literature.


Yes. The title was 'imposed' but any potential stories could have been from all kinds of perspectives.
From cradle to grave. As a distant observer or close-up and personal.
It could even be written from Putin's point of view!
A chocoholic dog, a curious cat or an unsuspecting alien from outer space...
It's a work of imagination.

Amity December 12, 2022 at 13:31 #763116
Quoting javi2541997
I see you take it so personally. I guess this is your story and you did not like my comments so I am sorry because it wasn't my intention to hurt you.


Again, you make assumptions. It is not my story and I'm not taking it personally.
I am not and never will be 'hurt' by TPF comments; so, you're good. No need to apologise :up:

Quoting javi2541997
...we finish here our discussion and I leave you alone and don't disturb you in your analysis.


As you wish...until the next time :flower:
Hanover December 12, 2022 at 13:33 #763117
Maybe this is another @Michael story, where it's really just a recounting of something that happened online, but this time he's keeping it more subtle.

There's that blurred line between art and reality that causes people to go to museums of modern art and to stare at nails in the wall and to wonder if the artist meant to show the emptiness of it all or whether they had just taken the painting down for cleaning.

In any event, I did find this story the most readable, largely because it was written as a post, and I generally don't read fiction, but I do read posts.
Olivier5 December 12, 2022 at 13:36 #763118
Quoting Amity
It could even be written from Putin's point of view!


It is, actually.

Quoting Amity
It's a work of imagination.


I agree. I even searched for "Custine" on TPF: there's no mention of him in here. As told, this story did not happen on TPF.
Amity December 12, 2022 at 13:38 #763119
Reply to Olivier5
:smile: :up:
Banno December 12, 2022 at 20:16 #763225
Reply to javi2541997 Joke free zone? It's fiction, one of the better, if not the best, so far. It subverts the forum by imitation - that's satire. There's the low-key display of erudition, too, simultaneously historical and topical.

I'm thinking @Jamal is recounting the purpose of the forums, which were obviously set up during his stint in Moscow using funding from the GRU. He's outing himself, probably looking to make a deal with the CIA.
Caldwell December 13, 2022 at 02:10 #763311
Quoting Amity
I hope you feel better today. A lovely response to the story. I'm now gonna have to visit Edgar :nerd:

Thanks for holding down the fort. :smile:

Yes, I feel better -- thank you.

Quoting Amity
I disagree with those that suggest it is not short story fiction.

This thought that it is not a short story fiction never crossed my mind while reading the story.

Quoting Olivier5
I understand that the title was mandatory, as per Amity's dare. The author could have stuck to it better by making the victim a Ukrainian, teaching Ukrainian literature.

I wouldn't change a thing.





Shawn December 13, 2022 at 03:22 #763319
Quoting Banno
I'm thinking Jamal is recounting the purpose of the forums, which were obviously set up during his stint in Moscow using funding from the GRU. He's outing himself, probably looking to make a deal with the CIA.


Shh, don't talk about GRU.
Benkei December 13, 2022 at 07:11 #763349
Much better Ukraine thread than the other one.
Amity December 13, 2022 at 08:35 #763361
Quoting Benkei
Much better Ukraine thread than the other one.


Well, it's short and sweet...and not a tiresome wrangling of...
Best leave it there :sparkle:
Amity December 13, 2022 at 08:38 #763362
Quoting Banno
It's fiction, one of the better, if not the best, so far. It subverts the forum by imitation - that's satire. There's the low-key display of erudition, too, simultaneously historical and topical.


Well said. I didn't have the words.
I hope @javi2541997 is listening carefully :sparkle:
Amity December 13, 2022 at 08:39 #763363
Reply to Caldwell
:up: :sparkle:
Banno December 13, 2022 at 08:53 #763365
Quoting Amity
I hope javi2541997 is listening carefully :sparkle:


The GRU certainly are.
Amity December 13, 2022 at 08:57 #763367
Reply to Banno I'm sure of it :scream:
Caldwell December 14, 2022 at 03:17 #763640
Quoting Benkei
Much better Ukraine thread than the other one.

:grin:

This writer can write!
Olivier5 December 16, 2022 at 08:07 #764328
This was not a serious entry, I was just having fun with @Amity's dare to write a micro fiction entitled "Ukraine Crisis". It was written very fast, in the style of a post, or an email, and thus it made for easy reading on an internet forum.

I tried to muddle the limit between the reality of the forum and fiction about it, written on the forum, hence I was delighted when some started to ask whether the story had happened here on TPF. Exactly the effect I was aiming for.

For the record, it did not happen anywhere. This is of course pure fiction. It was inspired by a fantastic book I am currently reading, Le Mage du Kremlin by Giuliano da Empoli, soon to be translated in English I am sure. In particular, the Marquis de Custine -- a historical but somewhat romanesque character -- was mentioned in that book.

Custine's book, La Russie en 1839, coined the phrase "Russia, prison of the peoples". It was in fact published in Brussels, away from the reach of both the French and Russian police. So I got that wrong (wrote it was published in Paris). It's polemical and highly subversive. It was banned in Russia during the empire. A full Russian translation is yet to be published.

I got the quotes from no further than Wikipedia. Reading his entry, I thought that Custine would be at ease in today's Internet forums, with his verve and polemic slant, and that what he said almost two centuries ago was still largely true... That's the whole idea.

So I agree with @javi2541997 that there wasn't much effort invested in this one. But it still worked... :-)
Amity December 16, 2022 at 09:29 #764333
Quoting Olivier5
This was not a serious entry, I was just having fun with Amity's dare to write a micro fiction entitled "Ukraine Crisis". It was written very fast, in the style of a post, or an email, and thus it made for easy reading on an internet forum.


I kinda thought it might be you, given your high involvement in the ongoing 'Ukraine Crisis' thread.
Already on your mind and in post mode.
I laughed at your so-called search for 'Custine', knowing already the posters involved in TPF.

Quoting Olivier5
I tried to muddle the limit between the reality of the forum and fiction about it,


You did that so very well. It delighted me to read the reactions!

Interesting to hear of the inspiration and story behind the characters. How Custine would have fitted in well in today's internet age. His ideas more accessible.

Your entry 'worked' because it was an imaginative and swift response to a cheeky dare.
Creativity can be instantaneous and not a terrible slog. Especially if your mind is already primed with associations.

It was brilliant and more than I hoped for.
You sure can write and have fun with it.
Merci beaucoup, mon ami :flower:



Olivier5 December 16, 2022 at 09:44 #764336
Reply to Amity Thank you for the kind words. I did have a lot of fun with this one, both writting it and reading the comments. :-)