Frozen Bodies, Warm Hearts - By 0 thru 9

If birds could speak, we would not understand them, but the homeless we could understand if we cared to. The last line diminished the story, and so failed as a twist. But the story was strong without that.

I would suggest instead something like "The old man shuffled off into the night still clutching the precious jar of ashes."

Particularly as I was wondering about the absent wife.

I liked it right up to the last line, too. Married cardinals are rarely more than a few yards apart, except when incubating eggs. And they don't know from money, bridges or coffee.

The whole conversation was very human, and rather more intimate than just buddies; so much so that I assumed them to be a married couple. I took this:
Quoting Caldwell

My wise wife wanted to vacation Southwards. I foolishly disagreed. If she’s smart, why’s she with me?

to be part of the affectionate banter, as it's not uncommon for spouses to go along with each other's bad ideas. It's not uncommon for the one who had the bad idea to regret it and the one who had warned against to refrain from saying so. And the 'big' ass sounds like something a mature woman might say only to a well-accustomed spouse or close female friend.

In spite of the birds, though, I like the story for the authenticity of dialogue.

Here's a quote to pull in the final line that is criticized:

"I never saw a wild thing feeling sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." ? D.H. Lawrence.

Think on that.

The story reminded me of right now, where it's 7 degrees (F), and that's incredibly cold for where I live. My wife has been pouring hot water into the frozen chicken water every few hours. If fretting were of value, the chickens would live 100 years.

Last night I was telling her you don't see dead birds lying all over the ground after a hard freeze, so the chickens will be fine.

That's why the bird laughed. And the men laughed as well. It's an everything will be fine story. Not a feel sorry story. That's how I read it.

Birds having money? Or coffee? Threatening to jump of a bridge seems a bit moot as a bird....

Quoting Hanover

"I never saw a wild thing feeling sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." ? D.H. Lawrence.

What made him a reader of avian minds? You never see wild things feeling sorry for themselves, because you never see a wild thing at all, except in glimpses when they're all right or when they're being ambushed by hunters.

No, the birds don't work. It was fine - really fine - as a human story; it didn't need a twist.

Quoting Vera Mont

, the birds don't work. It was fine - really fine - as a human story; it didn't need a twist.

The distinction between fiction and reality for me is that in the former, we acknowledge the story has meaning because it was created by a designer, and so we assume everything within the story occurred for a reason, and we can't erase the parts we think don't fit. So, if a cardinal flew up and a pigeon chuckled, we must figure out why because we are to assume those things occurred.

As to the latter, I think the same thing too.

Quoting Hanover

So, if a cardinal flew up and a pigeon chuckled, we must figure out why because we are to assume those things occurred.

As a reader, I don't feel that obligation at all. I react to what's on the page.

Quoting Vera Mont

As a reader, I don't feel that obligation at all. I react to what's on the page.

Yeah, but I gotta be me.

Quoting Hanover

"I never saw a wild thing feeling sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."

I agree with Vera Mont.

Could be due to the ineptitude of Lawrence, could be due to the ineptitude of the wild thing, could be anything that he never actually saw a bird or something feel sorry for his or her self.

One thing is for sure: For Lawrence it was not only self-sorrow, but a bunch of other emotions, moods and stances of the wild things, that were unseen, unheard, unfelt.

This quote by Lawrence was one of the most inept observation in all literature. Why did he do that? Obviously to earn some points, and apparently he did.

Quoting god must be atheist

Why did he do that?

I think he wasn't much into nature, except as an abstract. We had to analyze The Snake in school, and even at 17 I could see that his grasp of wildness was symbolic, allegorical. That poem, like most poems, was about the author, not the subject. That doesn't mean it's less good or meaningful; it's just another POV.

Reply to Vera Mont Thanks, Vera Mont. I'll look up "The Snake" now on the 'Net. I am not at all familiar with that poem... infact, I hear OF it first time today.

See link. He wrote better poems than stories, to my taste.

Reply to Vera Mont I read it already. Nice poem. He feels dignified by the presence of a good-looking predator, and throws a brick or something at him when he is in a vulnerable position. Lawrence made a despicable, cowardly act, and he felt the moral weight of it. For it's not often that you keep company with deadly dignitaries and celebrities, who are cool and they know they look cool. The power Lawrence felt from the snake made L richer, and yet he was ashamed because he repaid this gift with throwing some heavy thing at the unsuspecting powerful beast when he was not looking and in a vulnerable position.

L was forced to admit he was a coward, and it was not an easy decision to admit to that. But humans admit to things that they have done and are not too criminal or not too embarrassing. If he threw a handgrenade in the path of the British royal in their horse-drawn coaches, he would be less reluctant to make a poem of that.

Bin there, done that. Admitting to minor sins and crimes, in order to appear honest and contrite.

At the sametime I don't think L is insincere... he's just slimy and slithering like the snake, in L's own moral self-judgment.

Frozen Bodies, Warm Hearts

What or whose bodies; heavenly or earthly? Why are they frozen?
Frozen: physically or mentally ice-cold; fixed, stubborn or immobile.
Heart: anatomical blood pump; spiritual or moral kindness; a courageous core; love.

Can frozen bodies have warm hearts?

Trying to make out who is saying what in this dialogue.
Looks like the Cardinal speaks first, then the Pigeon with his preceding dash (-) to help us navigate.
Quoting Caldwell

Damn it’s cold!
-Yep. So cold it burns!

Freezing separately but in agreement.

Quoting Caldwell

Love living outdoors, but SHEESH! Wind’s punching me like a middle-school bully who forgot his meds!
-Teehee! Makes one wanna quit this nomadic life, sleep by a fireplace.

Cardinal loves the freedom but feels its punches. Remembers school violence and kids controlled by meds. A fighter in the playground?
Pigeon laughs - does he feel the same way? Would like to settle down, and rest in domestic bliss...

Quoting Caldwell

Or sit IN a fireplace, haha!
-Least until thawed!

They're a pair of jokers. Cardinal looking for fire/passion; Pigeon warm comfort, not cooked.

Quoting Caldwell

Definitely. My wise wife wanted to vacation Southwards. I foolishly disagreed. If she’s smart, why’s she with me?
-Ha, maybe you’re her “sugar daddy”?

Cardinal seems to regret not following his wife's sensible wish to take it easy in warmer climes.
He is lonely and vulnerable wondering what his wife sees in him. Right now, he is alone and talking to a Pigeon. His own heart frozen with a stubborn mind. Has she taken temporary leave...?
Pigeon again laughs and cynically suggests she only wants Cardinal for what he can give her.

Quoting Caldwell

Don’t you need money first? Instant disqualification.

-Ouch! Haha... Dang... my coffee’s so cold, black, and bitter... it’s balsamic vinegar.

'Money Can't Buy Me Love'. She loves Cardinal for himself...hmm...
Pigeon dips into a paper cup expecting sweet coffee but no such luck. Perhaps restorative in other ways.

Quoting Caldwell

Reminds me... any handouts tonight? I’m starving. Makes the night colder and emptier.
-Too late. Everyone’s sleeping. More handouts tomorrow.

Cardinal is not looking after himself. Needs something to warm his heart or keep his spirit up.
Long lonely nights.
Pigeon tells him he'll get nothing more from the sleeping people. More tomorrow. When Today will be Yesterday.

Quoting Caldwell

Oh well... Gotta finda bridge. Whether I sleep underneath it or jump off... stay tuned! Kidding...
-Hilarious! Hey, here’s a little food for ya...

Cardinal has to find a solution; a bridge, either a place to shelter or to commit suicide but again he's 'kidding'.
Pigeon duly amused, not taking him seriously, offers some crumbs...of hope?

Edit: re the bridge and 'stay tuned'.
The song 'Whatever gets you through the night' comes from the album 'Walls and Bridges'
Lennon said, "Walls keep you in either protectively or otherwise, and bridges get you somewhere else."

Quoting Caldwell

Oh no... you need it!
-Just had a big meal. Look at me... Got fat stored for an emergency... in my big ass, haha! Take it.

Cardinal initially declines. The Pigeon needs it more than he does?
Not so. Pigeon has been a wise old bird, storing up his fat resources. Again a joke, perhaps to hide the awkwardness. He has a warm heart, even if outwardly cold.

Quoting Caldwell

Wow, thanks. That will definitely help!

-Whatever gets you through the night...
...Is alright, is alright... ‘Night, friend!

Warm improvisation as friends; inspiration for a song.

Quoting Caldwell

Then the Cardinal flew up into the blizzard, while the Pigeon chuckled deeply.

The red, important Cardinal, now defrosted by the warm heart and food, flies up to make his mark in the white-out. To find the bridge that will 'get him somewhere else'.
Meanwhile, fat Pigeon laughs on in his self-satisfied comfort...

***

OMG. All the way through, I've been thinking of the Cardinal as John Lennon; the Pigeon as Paul McCartney. Why Pigeon?

From an interview:

Speaking candidly about Lennon, who was assassinated on December 8, 1980, McCartney said: "Thinking back on it, it's crazy.
"[John] wore glasses and I didn't, so if we got into an argument I would call him 'four-eyes.' Four-eyes!"
John didn't take the insult sitting down, however.
McCartney went on: "He would go: 'Pigeon chest!' My chest was not as developed as his, or whatever.
"So you know, we did all that. But these things obviously bring you together."

Mrs. Cardinal at the time of writing the song was Yoko Ono.
And if you want to follow their 'separation', go right ahead...

Of course, this is only my interpretation. But it's high time I got something right and the author!
If I'm right, then the author is obvious...
If I'm right, this is seriously smart and a joy to read!! :heart: :flower:
I have to be right, right?!

Whatever Gets You Thru The Night (Remastered 2010)

Wiki:The inspiration for the lyrics came from late-night television. In December 2005, May Pang told Radio Times: 'At night he [Lennon] loved to channel-surf, and would pick up phrases from all the shows. One time, he was watching Reverend Ike, a famous black evangelist, who was saying, 'Let me tell you guys, it doesn't matter, it's whatever gets you through the night.' John loved it and said, 'I've got to write it down or I'll forget it.' He always kept a pad and pen by the bed. That was the beginning of "Whatever Gets You thru the Night".'

Another link to the short story and its bridge. The song comes from the album 'Walls and Bridges'...

Wiki:... has a variety of musical stylings and many of the lyrics make it clear that Lennon both enjoyed his new-found freedom and also missed Ono. The album title refers to the barriers that Lennon had constructed between himself and others and his hope that those barriers could be surmounted.[12] Lennon said, "Walls keep you in either protectively or otherwise, and bridges get you somewhere else."

Quoting Hanover

, the birds don't work. It was fine - really fine - as a human story; it didn't need a twist.
— Vera Mont

The distinction between fiction and reality for me is that in the former, we acknowledge the story has meaning because it was created by a designer, and so we assume everything within the story occurred for a reason, and we can't erase the parts we think don't fit. So, if a cardinal flew up and a pigeon chuckled, we must figure out why because we are to assume those things occurred.

As to the latter, I think the same thing too.

Exactly so. So it goes. :fire:

Reply to Caldwell
I like the way it is broken up like a collage of 'stream of consciousness' associations, with John Lennon's song coming in. I also wondered if there was an indirect allusion to The Red Hot Chilli Peppers' 'Under the Bridge', which I have always seen as being about the paradox of jumping from the bridge or lying underneath it. Generally, I like the piece and it is like a micro fiction version of the beat generation classic, Kerouac's, 'On the Road'.

Quoting Hanover

So, if a cardinal flew up and a pigeon chuckled, we must figure out why because we are to assume those things occurred.

I'd accept that part. But the references to money, fireplace and jumping off a bridge, coffee and vinegar are either wholly out of place or deliberately misleading. I like fanciful storytelling, allegory, symbolism - all that fictiony stuff - but can't abide dishonesty.

Quoting Vera Mont

...the references to money, fireplace and jumping off a bridge, coffee and vinegar are either wholly out of place or deliberately misleading. I like fanciful storytelling, allegory, symbolism - all that fictiony stuff - but can't abide dishonesty.

You gotta be kidding, right?!

Quoting Vera Mont

I liked it right up to the last line, too. Married cardinals are rarely more than a few yards apart, except when incubating eggs. And they don't know from money, bridges or coffee. [...]
In spite of the birds, though, I like the story for the authenticity of dialogue.

It's the birds representing humans that carry the dialogue...

Quoting Amity

It's the birds representing humans that carry the dialogue...

What for? What narrative or symbolic purpose do they serve? It stands up just fine without the birds.

Reply to Vera Mont
I can only repeat what I've already written in my interpretation. I'm not going to do that.
I might be wrong. If you don't see it, you don't see it. *shrugs*

Quoting Vera Mont

I'd accept that part. But the references to money, fireplace and jumping off a bridge, coffee and vinegar are either wholly out of place or deliberately misleading. I like fanciful storytelling, allegory, symbolism - all that fictiony stuff - but can't abide dishonesty.

Dissonance, implausibility, and anachronism are some discordant elements in fiction -- so we want to avoid those. Because even in fiction, we do want harmony.
It is evident that you've felt at least one of these elements after reading the story. But as an experienced reader yourself, you have at your disposal the word charity. A charitable interpretation of the story can get over the hurdle of that one annoying element, so to speak.
Otherwise, blame the dissonance to editing.

I like the story very much. It doesn't need charity: it can make its own way in the world. There is just one single thing I don't like about it. Why is this such a bad thing to admit?

Quoting Caldwell

Otherwise, blame the dissonance to editing.

Okay. The editor should have cut that last line.

Quoting Vera Mont

Okay. The editor should have cut that last line.

Could be.

They’re dogs... and they’re playing poker!!! :scream:

We had a story to go with this painting, but it was way too intense... -Bart :snicker:

Like old scousers "Lennon & McCartney" riffing on a surreal bit of Vladimir & Estragon. :sweat:

Reply to Amity Well here's another clue for a rhyme / The walrus was @0 thru 9 ... :victory: :cool:

Reply to 180 Proof haha! Happy just to be Ringo’s roadie. :victory: :starstruck: