alan1000January 06, 2023 at 15:427675 views119 comments
Shouting has no place in philosophy. The still small voice of reason appeals to the intellect, not the eardrum. However much one may like sausages or David Bowie.
Comments (119)
unenlightenedJanuary 06, 2023 at 16:21#7699250 likes
Your suggestion does not appeal to the intellect. Philosophers are also humans and like to socialise and go off topic. If there were not suitable places for such activity, it would happen more in the philosophical threads where it really does not belong.
Unfortunately, objective analysis in philosophy does not recognise the right to go "off topic". "Off topic", by defnition, is not relevant to the question being posted. Or am I being too subtle here?
On the other hand, if you are referring to brainstorming (which can have a philosophical value), perhaps the page name should be changed to reflect this. "Shouting" is chiefly associated with Fascist and Communist philosophies.
This is essentially an admission of incompetence on the part of the moderators.
Yes it is. moderators here are unpaid volunteers, and they don't catch everything. It is an art anyway, not a science, because one has to have an eye for the members as they are. There's no point in deleting, stuff all the time and alienating folks. They'll just go somewhere else. At the same time an unmoderated site is inevitably shit. Here of course we manage the perfect balance of alienating shit-posters, and allowing different levels of wisdom to interact fairly freely. I have been conditioned to think so anyway.
Because the rule of contribution in the shoutbox permits any conversation or contribution, any posts in it are on topic. The hidden purpose of the shoutbox is to produce a satori about the nature of discourse; the philosophical underpinnings of conversation are the conversational underpinnings of philosophy.
Naturally the equation of the two in principle does not establish the equation of the two as practices. But since both are practices there's no identity established in principle either.
QED through the absence of proof. The Shoutbox stays.
HeracloitusJanuary 06, 2023 at 18:32#7699640 likes
Reply to alan1000 You need to get out more. People need places where they can exhibit their normal human irrationality, and yell at each other, or just yell.
The "still small voice" belongs to the Holy Ghost, not to mere mortals--everyone here. People can shout reasonably.
Metaphysician UndercoverJanuary 06, 2023 at 20:42#7699900 likes
It appears this thread is becoming a second shoutbox.
Nice work Alan1000!
SophistiCatJanuary 06, 2023 at 20:51#7699950 likes
Reply to Baden I, for one, would not want anyone to be out of the loop. Especially @alan1000
Jack CumminsJanuary 06, 2023 at 23:35#7700540 likes
Reply to alan1000
When I first came across the Shoutbox I wondered what was going on. However, after seeing it for over a year, I now see it value because some of the philosophy debates can be so academic and detached from life. Sometimes, the Shoutbox seems full of pigs, and it does put me off a little, but on the other hand, I I probably feel so oppressed by philosophical pigs and other creatures, that a certain amount of light relief is necessary. It may be that the Shoutbox allows for a certain amount of emotional ventilation which cannot be contained in the rational perimeters of so many philosophers threads.
Reply to alan1000 The shoutbox is sacred, pointing back to previous incarnations of the forum. It was there on the front page, and much more immediate, a place for less formal and more open conversation.
But we Elder were cast out, wandering the webs until @Jamal made this place for us.
And he gave us the new shoutbox, a faded memory from the Dreaming.
But we Elder were cast out, wandering the webs until Jamal made this place for us.
I could have told you where this gaff was straight off, mate, seeing as it was set up before old PF finally collapsed. But you probably like wandering around webs anyway.
In those days, a strange wanderer named @Agustino fell in with them. And lo, he created mayhem and havoc wherever they might go, until he mysteriously disappeared, having most likely been taken up to heaven without tasting death.
Reply to Baden Sure, but it had no value until the diaspora. If you prefer, Paul left us in the hands of the evil ones, but Jamal gave us this place...
I dunno. I go to the trouble of inventing a new religion and you immediately indulge yourself in schism.
[quote=The Gay Science, B1 aphorism 51] Truthfulness -- I favor any skepsis to which I may reply: "Let us try it!" But I no longer wish to hear anything of all those things and questions that do not permit any experiment. This is the limit of my "truthfulness"; for there courage has lost its right
[/quote]
I demand a more significant place in the myth building. It were me and Hanover who originally battled against the evil Pharaoh Porat, leading the first sheep from Egypt PF into exile. Yeah a few goats followed later and Jamal built Jerusalem PF, whatever.
Reply to Baden Twisting the threads to suit your own aggrandisement...
The lost wandered aimlessly, yet a chosen few found themselves in a bar in Amsterdam somewhere. For the serving wench there was transformed, and @SittinWSocratesTiff became @ArguingWAristotleTiff, and spread the good news of Jamal's promised land.
In those days, a strange wanderer named Agustino fell in with them. And lo, he created mayhem and havoc wherever they might go, until he mysteriously disappeared, having most likely been taken up to heaven without tasting death.
Yea! And Amen! It is prophesied that he shall return during the endtimes.
(which should be in about 3 weeks... ) :halo: :monkey:
demand a more significant place in the myth building. It were me and Hanover who originally battled against the evil Pharaoh Porat, leading the first sheep from Egypt PF into exile. Yeah a few goats followed later and Jamal built Jerusalem PF, whatever.
It most certainly was a small group of us, easily identified by scrolling back in the membership logs as to who first joined here.
I have had few enough moments of integrity in my life that I'm willing for them to be written out of history, so I'll state here that I bolted immediately from the old site when it was clear my posts were to be treated as a commodity for Porat"s I'll fated plan to make the place a source of financial profit. If he was to get meaningfully paid, I wouldn't be his volunteer for his enterprise, especially when he was who he was.
And no doubt @ArguingWAristotleTiff was a part of keeping what she saw as her community together, yet she seems to be away for a long time now, as we all patiently await her return from her troubles. Anyone have any updates on that they can share?
If we're going to talk forum history and mythology and stuff, we should not forget the heroes who have fallen on their swords or had their swords fall on them:
If Im to have any anointed or divine status, I see myself as a low-level demiurge, but a bit more benevolent than that of the Gnostics. Following the fall of Paul, allegiance was transferred to the supreme God Plush, who is entirely indifferent and non-interventionist with respect to TPF.
Reply to T Clark Lets not forget those who did not make it here in the first place, high quality contributors such as To Mega Therion (fierce but fair Leninist physicist) and Sheps (wishy-washy socialist). A few others made it across but dropped out quickly, perhaps feeling that the death of PF was a good time to break the habit.
@Hanover was indeed instrumental in making a success of this place. His immediate enthusiasm for the move was unexpected, and the fact that he didnt become a moderator until weeks or months later must have been, and must remain, a source of deep bitterness.
I never posted in the Shoutbox on old PF, nor did I pay any attention to the short story competitions. At the time it was philosophical discussion or nothing for me. Times change.
javi2541997January 07, 2023 at 07:48#7702060 likes
We had a Shoutbox dark age when all lounge discussions were removed from the front page. @SittinWSocratesTiff and @Shawn wee instrumental in convincing us to bring it back, which we eventually did by separating it from the other lounge threads through the creation of the Symposium category. Tiff's instincts were right on here whereas some of the rest of us, including me, were slow learners. Just an example of the value she's brought to the community. Hope she's well and will return to active posting soon.
god must be atheistJanuary 07, 2023 at 11:59#7702270 likes
I demand a more significant place in the myth building. It were me and Hanover who originally battled against the evil Pharaoh Porat, leading the first sheep from Egypt PF into exile. Yeah a few goats followed later and Jamal built Jerusalem PF, whatever.
What's with the Biblical referencing?
"I demand a more significant place in the annals of history. It were me and Hanover who originally gave speeches to the thought-workers of Ostovstorosk Malfactory, the idea-workers of Mozeyevski Ship Yard, the party-workers of Groznenko's Bagel and Cheese Emorium, leading the first workers and peasants from capitalist mess to exile by the Lena river. Yee, we succeeded in getting the philosophy-and-sex workers united, and we marched into the town of Ozolvks, to establish a better future in which every philosopher gives all that they can, and takes away nothing by way of learned insight."
@Hanover was indeed instrumental in making a success of this place. His immediate enthusiasm for the move was unexpected, and the fact that he didnt become a moderator until weeks or months later must have been, and must remain, a source of deep bitterness.
I was such a humble servant, wanting nothing but maybe a smile cast my way, constantly ignored, always striving, never good enough, to today to still be reminded sarcastically of those months of. Impenetrable blackness.
"I demand a more significant place in the annals of history. It were me and Hanover who originally gave speeches to the thought-workers of Ostovstorosk Malfactory, the idea-workers of Mozeyevski Ship Yard, the party-workers of Groznenko's Bagel and Cheese Emorium, leading the first workers and peasants from capitalist mess to exile by the Lena river. Yee, we succeeded in getting the philosophy-and-sex workers united, and we marched into the town of Ozolvks, to establish a better future in which every philosopher gives all that they can, and takes away nothing by way of learned insight."
Following the fall of Paul, allegiance was transferred to the supreme God Plush, who is entirely indifferent and non-interventionist with respect to TPF.
What was that guy's name who took over PF just to transform it into a cesspool? And whatever happened to that site, is it completely gone now?
Tiff still going through difficult times. I'm sure you will all join us in looking forward to her return.
Tell her if you have a chance, we're thinking of her, and to stop back by when she's up to it, at least to read these posts. I think she'd get comfort from it.
Lets not forget those who did not make it here in the first place, high quality contributors such as To Mega Therion (fierce but fair Leninist physicist) and Sheps (wishy-washy socialist). A few others made it across but dropped out quickly, perhaps feeling that the death of PF was a good time to break the habit.
I participated in the old forum, but not to the extent I have here. I can't even remember my user name. So I'm glad you've been able to fill in the gap a bit.
I wanted to say that he complained about "shoutbox" while he "shouted" in his posts in this thread. It is a paradox
I didn't object to "shouted," it was "literally." He used "shouted" metaphorically, i.e. figuratively, not literally. Literally would only apply if he actually said "shout" very loudly.
javi2541997January 07, 2023 at 17:07#7703010 likes
Reply to Shawn
Well, I am not a very good representative to give an account of the matter since the majority of my interests fall outside the common terms of discourse here but I have noticed that many of the banned only got to that place after attempting to dominate all other conversations in a discussion.
@Mayor of Simpleton joined at the beginning of TPF, helped in bringing people over from the old site, and shows up here sometimes. Hes posted 661 times.
javi2541997January 08, 2023 at 06:56#7704880 likes
At current rates of posting, Shoutbox 2 will overtake Shoutbox 1 in number of posts at 2:13 am on the 2nd of March 2031.
Metaphysician UndercoverJanuary 08, 2023 at 12:42#7705320 likes
Reply to javi2541997
I know, and I'm not worried, I just thought I'd mention how your specific use of words affected me.
See, I'm calling you a user too, by saying that you use words. But by specifying exactly what it is that you are using, I avoid that blackhole, or vacuum of nothingness (which triggers the imagination), that your use of "user" fell into in my mind.
javi2541997January 08, 2023 at 13:26#7705400 likes
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover I see. I thought I wasn't able to call him friend, mate, buddy, etc... Because I didn't meet him yet inside this online symposium.
Nevertheless, you are right. I think the word user represents the nothingness or the zero 0? in terms of computational digits.
I think I should call him for his name now on.
javi2541997January 08, 2023 at 13:28#7705410 likes
At current rates of posting, Shoutbox 2 will overtake Shoutbox 1 in number of posts at 2:13 am on the 2nd of March 2031.
I think we all can agree this is the greatest, most ironic, thread in the history of TPF. We owe thanks to alan 1000. I suggest you pin it to the top of the first page right under The Shoutbox.
The rate of rate of increase of Shoutbox 2 posting vs Shoutbox 1 posting is now exponential such that Shoutbox 2 will overtake Shoutbox 1 in number of posts 23 minutes ago at 21:25 on Jan 08 2023 (though my calculations might be slightly off). Enjoy this success while you can as Shoutbox 2 may potentially become a victim of its own success such that in order that the number of posts doesn't soon exceed the number of atoms in the known universe, it may have to be closed.
One day I wish to retire so I could become a farmer, which is something a farmer never said, and something no one ever said is that they wanted to retire so they could become a lawyer.
One day I wish to retire so I could become a farmer, which is something a farmer never said, and something no one ever said is that they wanted to retire so they could become a lawyer.
As Shakespeare wrote (Henry VI, Part 2) - "The first thing we do, let's retire all the lawyers."
Comments (119)
You don't actually have to shout to yourself what's written in the Shoutbox.
Any other issues, let us know. :up:
On the other hand, if you are referring to brainstorming (which can have a philosophical value), perhaps the page name should be changed to reflect this. "Shouting" is chiefly associated with Fascist and Communist philosophies.
That is why we have Facebook and Twitter.
This is essentially an admission of incompetence on the part of the moderators.
Yes it is. moderators here are unpaid volunteers, and they don't catch everything. It is an art anyway, not a science, because one has to have an eye for the members as they are. There's no point in deleting, stuff all the time and alienating folks. They'll just go somewhere else. At the same time an unmoderated site is inevitably shit. Here of course we manage the perfect balance of alienating shit-posters, and allowing different levels of wisdom to interact fairly freely. I have been conditioned to think so anyway.
It's a community anyways.
Naturally the equation of the two in principle does not establish the equation of the two as practices. But since both are practices there's no identity established in principle either.
QED through the absence of proof. The Shoutbox stays.
The "still small voice" belongs to the Holy Ghost, not to mere mortals--everyone here. People can shout reasonably.
Nice work Alan1000!
You should look up the meaning of "shout." Also "literal."
That does sound fun.
Just got my first test saying my cholesterol is too high.
Pigs just make some noise; but, they're really just harmless.
Balls.
Nasty fuckers.
Maybe we should copy all posts from Shoutbox 1 to Shoutbox 2 and vice versa in case someone misses something. :chin: :snicker:
When I first came across the Shoutbox I wondered what was going on. However, after seeing it for over a year, I now see it value because some of the philosophy debates can be so academic and detached from life. Sometimes, the Shoutbox seems full of pigs, and it does put me off a little, but on the other hand, I I probably feel so oppressed by philosophical pigs and other creatures, that a certain amount of light relief is necessary. It may be that the Shoutbox allows for a certain amount of emotional ventilation which cannot be contained in the rational perimeters of so many philosophers threads.
But we Elder were cast out, wandering the webs until @Jamal made this place for us.
And he gave us the new shoutbox, a faded memory from the Dreaming.
You children would not understand.
So suck it up, or fuck off.
I could have told you where this gaff was straight off, mate, seeing as it was set up before old PF finally collapsed. But you probably like wandering around webs anyway.
and in the void there was the paul
a memory within a dreaming of a dream...
Actually silly of me to critique Banno's creation myth by taking it literally. Maybe Shoutbox 2 can become a kind of TPF Bible?
and thus baden beget shoutbox 2
:halo:
And lo, there was a thing. But nobody could agree what it was or tasted like.
I dunno. I go to the trouble of inventing a new religion and you immediately indulge yourself in schism.
Truthfulness -- I favor any skepsis to which I may reply: "Let us try it!" But I no longer wish to hear anything of all those things and questions that do not permit any experiment. This is the limit of my "truthfulness"; for there courage has lost its right
[/quote]
I demand a more significant place in the myth building. It were me and Hanover who originally battled against the evil Pharaoh Porat, leading the first sheep from Egypt PF into exile. Yeah a few goats followed later and Jamal built Jerusalem PF, whatever.
"Don't hold your breath but the pretty things are going to hell"
The lost wandered aimlessly, yet a chosen few found themselves in a bar in Amsterdam somewhere. For the serving wench there was transformed, and @SittinWSocratesTiff became @ArguingWAristotleTiff, and spread the good news of Jamal's promised land.
And so it was that they came unto this place, and amongst them were @unenlightened, @Tobias, @Michael, @Moliere and @Banno
And they use the Shoutbox in memory of those gone before.
No pigs were hurt in the making of Shoutbox 2.
Quoting Banno
If I don't, who will? :smirk:
I wasn't complaining; only setting out the facts...
Yea! And Amen! It is prophesied that he shall return during the endtimes.
(which should be in about 3 weeks... ) :halo: :monkey:
It most certainly was a small group of us, easily identified by scrolling back in the membership logs as to who first joined here.
I have had few enough moments of integrity in my life that I'm willing for them to be written out of history, so I'll state here that I bolted immediately from the old site when it was clear my posts were to be treated as a commodity for Porat"s I'll fated plan to make the place a source of financial profit. If he was to get meaningfully paid, I wouldn't be his volunteer for his enterprise, especially when he was who he was.
And no doubt @ArguingWAristotleTiff was a part of keeping what she saw as her community together, yet she seems to be away for a long time now, as we all patiently await her return from her troubles. Anyone have any updates on that they can share?
I have been told that such language here on the forum is "hate speech."
I'll claim it as a cultural birthright.
@TimeLine
@Sapientia or @S
@Streetlight
@Donald Trump Jr.
@Agustino
@Marco in his many manifestations
@Clarky
@Jamalrob
@Hugh G. Rection
@tim wood
@Buxtebuddha
@Posty McPostface
@Pattern-chaser
@Valentinus
@Terrapin Station
And many more
Lets not forget those who did not make it here in the first place, high quality contributors such as To Mega Therion (fierce but fair Leninist physicist) and Sheps (wishy-washy socialist). A few others made it across but dropped out quickly, perhaps feeling that the death of PF was a good time to break the habit.
@Hanover was indeed instrumental in making a success of this place. His immediate enthusiasm for the move was unexpected, and the fact that he didnt become a moderator until weeks or months later must have been, and must remain, a source of deep bitterness.
I wanted to say that he complained about "shoutbox" while he "shouted" in his posts in this thread. It is a paradox :smile:
I think Wayfarer thought the same:
Quoting Wayfarer
We had a Shoutbox dark age when all lounge discussions were removed from the front page. @SittinWSocratesTiff and @Shawn wee instrumental in convincing us to bring it back, which we eventually did by separating it from the other lounge threads through the creation of the Symposium category. Tiff's instincts were right on here whereas some of the rest of us, including me, were slow learners. Just an example of the value she's brought to the community. Hope she's well and will return to active posting soon.
David Bowie DOES like sausages.
More pissing. I need more pissing.
What's with the Biblical referencing?
"I demand a more significant place in the annals of history. It were me and Hanover who originally gave speeches to the thought-workers of Ostovstorosk Malfactory, the idea-workers of Mozeyevski Ship Yard, the party-workers of Groznenko's Bagel and Cheese Emorium, leading the first workers and peasants from capitalist mess to exile by the Lena river. Yee, we succeeded in getting the philosophy-and-sex workers united, and we marched into the town of Ozolvks, to establish a better future in which every philosopher gives all that they can, and takes away nothing by way of learned insight."
I was such a humble servant, wanting nothing but maybe a smile cast my way, constantly ignored, always striving, never good enough, to today to still be reminded sarcastically of those months of. Impenetrable blackness.
Bitter, no, I'm not bitter.
Years.
:lol:
I think I may have had the highest shout-count on old PF.
What was that guy's name who took over PF just to transform it into a cesspool? And whatever happened to that site, is it completely gone now?
Porat.
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Gone, yes.
Tell her if you have a chance, we're thinking of her, and to stop back by when she's up to it, at least to read these posts. I think she'd get comfort from it.
I participated in the old forum, but not to the extent I have here. I can't even remember my user name. So I'm glad you've been able to fill in the gap a bit.
I didn't object to "shouted," it was "literally." He used "shouted" metaphorically, i.e. figuratively, not literally. Literally would only apply if he actually said "shout" very loudly.
And when the shite-ing and shouting become too much, the Soapbox can be used to stand on, and clean things up.
It took all of us....
Incision, hyena, landlady and more that I can remember...
and hyena occasionally pops by?
.... yeah, it was still a shame.
:grin: :up:
Are you sure about that?
Perhaps we should call it Pandora's Box.
Shoutbox 2, the dark side, the Pandorabox!
Idk, there were some members that seemed like it was just life giving them a hard time and just making some noise over it that got them banned.
(Not very many)
I doubt they'd want to come back though as they moved on in their lives.
Well, I am not a very good representative to give an account of the matter since the majority of my interests fall outside the common terms of discourse here but I have noticed that many of the banned only got to that place after attempting to dominate all other conversations in a discussion.
You mean like this;
The struggle is real:
https://youtube.com/shorts/ZeO3KEG5XZg
Yeah, it does. A whole video.
But that's another thing. The pigs have taken over from the goats. Young people these days.
@Mayor of Simpleton joined at the beginning of TPF, helped in bringing people over from the old site, and shows up here sometimes. Hes posted 661 times.
His profile information is full in Japanese! So cool :cool:
I wish he can shows up around TPF again, he seems to be an interesting user.
Edit: I start following him. Just in case he comes back.
Not only interesting, but also a thoroughly decent fellow.
Good to hear such honourable attribute in a person. I wish I can meet him one day too.
Looks like I'm ripe for getting banned.
Speaking of goats.
That's a strange way to refer to a person. It carries some bad connotations in my mind which are very difficult to separate from the term.
If you are worried that much I promise my comment was not lascivious.
I know, and I'm not worried, I just thought I'd mention how your specific use of words affected me.
See, I'm calling you a user too, by saying that you use words. But by specifying exactly what it is that you are using, I avoid that blackhole, or vacuum of nothingness (which triggers the imagination), that your use of "user" fell into in my mind.
Nevertheless, you are right. I think the word user represents the nothingness or the zero 0? in terms of computational digits.
I think I should call him for his name now on.
Windows doing weird maths for me. I am scared now... Probably someone is hacking my computer. That's what happens when you use DuckDuckGo.
Well, here's a goat and a pig. The goat is a voracious animal; but, a pig can be more.
I think we all can agree this is the greatest, most ironic, thread in the history of TPF. We owe thanks to alan 1000. I suggest you pin it to the top of the first page right under The Shoutbox.
Indeed. Goats eat everything. Therefore goats eat pigs.
Quoting Shawn
Proof: sInce goats eat a pigs, a pig can be a goat. Hence your are correct: a pig can be more than a pig, it can be a goat.
It would be a perfect world if we made do with satisfying our appetite from wild pigs instead of growing them for meat in farms.
Yep, talk about nasty shiet.
A pig can be a great pet. A goat however just asks for food.
Indeed, Goats are not subservient in the way pigs are.
They're smarter too and can learn tricks. :smile:
What kind of pigs do you guys have? American pigs are dangerous, as in they kill people.
It's rude to refer to the police as pigs.
Tater, Cornbread, Biscuit, and Jasper makes 4.
Burn!!!
Of course, since everything is a goat, counting them is superfluous.
In Australia they refer to them as "numbats."
Not so much. Might be a regional variation.
As Shakespeare wrote (Henry VI, Part 2) - "The first thing we do, let's retire all the lawyers."