The Prevalent Mentality

Bug Biro January 10, 2023 at 15:18 5775 views 38 comments
A nearly ten-year-old theory of mine described. Since my first admission (of eight admittances, give or take) to a psychiatric wing of a hospital, this is my realization; I believe it rings true:

The antithesis of psychosis is the prevalent mentality, the prime driver of inequality: People who are tranquil of unjust societies and at peace with being controlled by severely corrupt, if not absolutely evil, governance. Most "sane" people blindly comply or ignorantly consent to the mistreatment of themselves and others. Most people deemed "insane" placed faith in friends, family, and authorities undeserving of trust and were devastated by discoveries of betrayal. Far more often than not, psychotics yearn for indemnification. Some are active in its development, while others passively await its arrival.

What do you think of these thoughts?

Comments (38)

javi2541997 January 10, 2023 at 15:39 #771119
Quoting Bug Biro
What do you think of these thoughts?


I don't get the correlation between prevalent mentality and "inequality" that ends up with psychosis. I just see all your arguments very twisted.

Quoting Bug Biro
Most "sane" people blindly comply or consent to the mistreatment of themselves and others. Most people deemed "insane" placed faith in friends, family, and authorities undeserving of trust and were devastated by betrayal.


These are very general arguments. Not all the persons act with the same pattern. There is not an absolute truth towards of how the individuals or authorities should act.

Quoting Bug Biro
People are tranquil of unjust societies and at peace with being controlled by severely corrupt, if not absolutely evil, governance


I think not. Look at the revolutions of Iran or Peru.

Most of the governments are corrupt anyway... so it is very difficult to make a comparative with those who live under a government with zero corruption.
Bug Biro January 10, 2023 at 16:57 #771138
I did not consider Iran or Peru, I will now. Thanks for your advice there. These gatherings by me are based on personal experience and discussions I've had with others who experienced psychotic symptoms, typically while being held inside the same psychiatric ward together. With the information given in your retort, I suppose my findings would mostly be applicable to present First World nations.
Vera Mont January 10, 2023 at 17:25 #771147
Quoting Bug Biro
What do you think of these thoughts?


I think that summary inaccurately reduces all mental illness to two dimensions, whereas I believe the large group of emotional and cognitive malfunctions to be four-dimensional. It can, however, be subdivided into smaller groups for ease of comprehension and discussion.

OTOH, I very much agree that one major cause of mental illness, emotional breakdown and conceptual dissonance is the gap between experienced reality and received wisdom. That is, the lies we tell children from the moment they are born. It isn't just the organs of corrupt governments that lie: parents, teachers, employers, news outlets, pastors, movies, salesmen, barristers - all kinds of people lie about all kinds of things, everywhere, all the time. Entire mythologies are constructed out of untruths to define a nation's self-image, just like an institution's or individual person's.
Attempting to reconcile these disparate narratives with one's direct experience and fashion them into some a coherent view of the world is exhausting work; it occupies a great deal of a person's time and attention, and consumes a great deal of his life energy. So he either becomes acquiescent and quiescent, or he explodes in some manifestation of protest: political action, criminal action or madness. (However I dislike it, It's the simplest, least apt but most accessible word to describe this kind of emotional break.)
Bug Biro January 11, 2023 at 00:07 #771322
Quoting Vera Mont
I believe the large group of emotional and cognitive malfunctions to be four-dimensional


Four-dimensional, I wonder how so? Please explain.
Vera Mont January 11, 2023 at 00:15 #771326
Quoting Bug Biro
Four-dimensional, I wonder how so? Please explain.


They exist in direct perception, familial (or intimate) interaction, social context and life-time. They are also based in instinct, emotion, thought and projection. There may be other ways to describe the multi-faceted nature of mental illness. But you shouldn't take my image of four dimensions literally; all i really meant to illustrate was that they are more complex and varied than expectation > betrayal > disillusionment > breakdown. Yes, that sequence plays a part, but only a part.
baker January 12, 2023 at 18:19 #771858
Quoting Bug Biro
The antithesis of psychosis is the prevalent mentality, the prime driver of inequality: People are tranquil of unjust societies and at peace with being controlled by severely corrupt, if not absolutely evil, governance. Most "sane" people blindly comply or consent to the mistreatment of themselves and others. Most people deemed "insane" placed faith in friends, family, and authorities undeserving of trust and were devastated by betrayal.


I think sane people are more cunning than you give them credit for. It seems they only pretend to "blindly comply or consent to the mistreatment of themselves and others"; they only pretend to be "tranquil of unjust societies and at peace with being controlled by severely corrupt, if not absolutely evil, governance". They have a vibrant inner life and they choose their battles wisely. They know how to "hide in plain sight".
Vera Mont January 12, 2023 at 20:21 #771924
Quoting baker
I think sane people are more cunning than you give them credit for.


That's a good way of putting it. Some psyches are (innately ?) more fragile than others; and some are subjected to a more intense barrage of crazy-making fiction in the formative years, while others are given an opportunity to verify and validate their subjective experience.
But, beyond that, we all make compromises; draw our personal lines of compliance, forbearance and hypocrisy. It's not an easy balance to maintain, but most people manage to function and keep their societies functioning - more or less.
Collectively, though, we're a completely bonkers species.
Tom Storm January 12, 2023 at 20:29 #771933
Quoting Bug Biro
What do you think of these thoughts?


Lots of people have made similar arguments over the years. I think it was Orwell who said that the norms of one culture might look insane next to the norms of another. Ditto for people. Moving away form the idea of what is insane and what is normal we might be better served by asking what behaviors help or harm the community? We then get into morality and politics and debate reigns supreme. There's no correlation between sanity/normality and being nice.
Bug Biro January 15, 2023 at 05:14 #772660
Quoting baker
They know how to "hide in plain sight".


The requirement or the belief that people need to hide in plain sight is a sign we live life wishing for better and merits the past-proven concept that achieving life improvements through personal actions is hazardous to us. It is an example of us fearing what our rulers, those who claim they do what's best for people, are directly capable of causing us. Perhaps individuals speaking up against injustice and stating ways to make life better for most of us will result in even worse life for certain people. Maybe life will stay the same. If enough people speak up in peaceful protest, rulers will listen and adjust to meet our standards. I see no other way for life to get better. Failure to do so will result in the gradual worsening of life until reaching a point of irreparable damage and rapid deterioration of our quality of life.
Bug Biro January 15, 2023 at 05:45 #772665
Quoting Tom Storm
There's no correlation between sanity/normality and being nice.


To me, normality is synonymous with sanity when really, they are antonyms. What's normal by today's standards is far from what's nice. Likewise, my belief is negation between the terms "normal" and "nice." All people perform both kind and unkind acts. The most unkind tend to be the excuses they make to not fight back against an obviously present evil, denying people relief from unnecessary suffering.
Bug Biro January 15, 2023 at 05:55 #772668
Quoting Vera Mont
It's not an easy balance to maintain, but most people manage to function and keep their societies functioning - more or less.


I'm under the impression the functions of all societies fall under the "less" category. Far less for some.
Tom Storm January 15, 2023 at 06:24 #772671
Quoting Bug Biro
What's normal by today's standards is far from what's nice.


Can you give an example of normal today being far from nice? I would have thought it's a nicer world today in many places, except in some countries where it is still like the 1500's.
Bug Biro January 15, 2023 at 06:30 #772673
Quoting Tom Storm
Can you give an example of normal today being far from nice?


Quoting Bug Biro
All people perform both kind and unkind acts. The most unkind tend to be the excuses they make to not fight back against an obviously present evil, denying people relief from unnecessary suffering.


The suffering of people, typically those who are poor, is the biggest injustice.

Quoting Tom Storm
I would have thought it's a nicer world today in many places, except in some countries where it is still like the 1500's.


I compared our capacity for niceness with today's output and what the future could hold. Life for humans could be near-perfect through changes easier than we think. It involves the most ineffective and detrimental aspects of societies, removing them or reversing their means to achieve the desired results.

For example, justice systems expect crimes to occur to prevent crimes. Highly inefficient. The documentary Where to Invade Next? by Michael Moore taught me that less freedom taken from incarcerated criminals leads to lower crime rates. Proven by a country after trading traditional jails with lodgings and practices far more similar to rehabilitation centres. Respect given is respect earned.
Agent Smith January 15, 2023 at 08:11 #772682
I blame all our problems on the wiseguy who, 10,000 BC, went "hey guys, why not grow our own food?" My personal opinion is that human individualism though toned down over innumerable generations by natural selection is too strong for social existence; groups larger than 50 - 100 are, I think, unstable and it shows - large cities tend to have high crime rates. As our astute OP seems to have noticed, a person only wants a friend so that the probability of ending up as a lion's lunch goes down from 100% to 50%. Selfish is us and of course the same goes for all life.
Bug Biro January 15, 2023 at 08:47 #772686
Quoting Agent Smith
As our astute OP seems to have noticed, a person only wants a friend so that the probability of ending up as a lion's lunch goes down from 100% to 50%. Selfish is us and of course the same goes for all life.


I did not notice this said before. Yes, friendship over animosity reduces the risk of harm. Grudges that develop into violence are avoidable exaggerations. Self-preservation should always be upheld, except for extreme situations typically reserved for hypothetical. While selflessness is impossible, I hope the trait turns into one we all strive for. Doing so should provide the utmost happiness for those we encounter and ourselves. Being selfish will still exist because at no point will everyone always think the same or lie to make others believe we do. It is sometimes the better option to be selfish. Perhaps we reach a point where being selfish only happens if it is the best option for all parties, even if it takes time for those involved to realize it is. So, technically, in that case, selfishness won't exist.
Agent Smith January 15, 2023 at 09:01 #772689
Reply to Bug Biro I believe you're close to the truth. From an evolutionary standpoint, it (selfishness) seems critical to survival, but from ethics, it's a prime evil/cardinal sin. Perhaps it violates the basic principle of quid pro quo. An individual enjoys the protection the group offers, but gives nothing back in return. There's another word for such folks - parasite.
Bug Biro January 15, 2023 at 09:45 #772698
Quoting Agent Smith
An individual enjoys the protection the group offers, but gives nothing back in return. There's another word for such folks - parasite.


There should be nothing forcing the group to interact with such folk, folk I doubt exist. Who's to say parasites owe providers anything? What if people no longer rely on face-to-face interactions with others to get what they want or require? Would that make non-parasites less inconsiderate of a parasite? Self-loathing people, most likely those considered parasites by others, those who lack friendship, might go into total seclusion. I feel sad for those types of people. Those who neglected them should feel sad for imposing self-hatred on another. I want a world where people no one wants to associate with have people they consider friends. Where selfless people are willing to suffer if it might preserve the life of another. Where people exist who would rather die than not attempt to provide everyone with love.
Bylaw January 15, 2023 at 10:33 #772705
Reply to Bug Biro I think perhaps some people who are in psychosis are reacting to or their state came into being because of facets of society: but also their families and contacts or lack thereof. But I think other things can be at play: trauma, lack of sleep and stress (not necessarily caused by societal problems) drug and alcohol use, medication, long term social isolation (chicken and egg issues here) and likely other things that don't come to me off the top of my head.

My guess is that it's not the best idea to at least simply blame psychosis on society.

I do think people are not reacting, all the time. They have been trained to not react, to take certain things as given if not also good, to hide their reactions even from themselves, to get along and not rock the boat and for those who can't or don't want to do these things there is tremendous emotional stress.

I think it might be better to focus on what seems mentally healthy - being ok with things as they are - and say there may well be a widespread mental illness in that, than to say psychosis comes from the problems in society. I think that there are people who see and feel the things you dislike but who are never in psychosis. I think people who are psychosis are not always for the reasons you say/imply.

A narrower focus I think is better and then also focus on the crazyiness of the general shrug and blindness.
Agent Smith January 15, 2023 at 10:54 #772710
Reply to Bug Biro God is merciful mon ami! :death: :flower:

I don't know how the system actually works, but there's a price to pay for everything - some are willing to, others no, still others are, as we speak, turning their options over in their heads. Hope for the best, prepare for the best, oui monsieur?

The socioeconomic climate, inter alia, and "the prevalent mentality", is the radix of our problems. Is it right to fault a man who's already off-balance for being knocked down by gale-force winds?
Vera Mont January 15, 2023 at 16:12 #772800
Quoting Bug Biro
If enough people speak up in peaceful protest, rulers will listen and adjust to meet our standards.

How many - or rather, what percent of the population - is enough?

How Quoting Agent Smith
groups larger than 50 - 100 are, I think, unstable and it shows - large cities tend to have high crime rates.

Two things about that.
100 doesn't provide a big enough gene pool or work force for self preservation. It needs to be at least 1000 - but, IMO, not more than 10,000 for sustainable population and governance.
And the crime rate in modern industrial urban settings is a product of economic and organizational factors more than simple numbers.
Quoting Agent Smith
Selfish is us and of course the same goes for all life.

Ye-e-e-s... but so is altruistic and sociable.

All vertical social organizations impose some degree and form of thought-control on the populace: having a single, unified world-view (which posits the necessity of hierarchy and assumes the legitimacy of the present rulers) makes the lower classes compliant. Any deviation from that world-view poses a threat to the power-structure and must be suppressed.
A small, more egalitarian society is able to withstand differences of opinion, because these are discussed openly, face to face. If the dissonance causes a rift, it has to be resolved through compromise or social change - has to be, because it puts the whole group, everyone's children and loved ones - at risk. Horizontal social arrangements are far more flexible, responsive and adaptable than large, stratified ones. Think flock of starlings vs pyramid.


Agent Smith January 15, 2023 at 16:40 #772807
Quoting Vera Mont
groups larger than 50 - 100 are, I think, unstable and it shows - large cities tend to have high crime rates.
— Agent Smith
Two things about that.
100 doesn't provide a big enough gene pool or work force for self preservation. It needs to be at least 1000 - but, IMO, not more than 10,000 for sustainable population and governance.
And the crime rate in modern industrial urban settings is a product of economic and organizational factors more than simple numbers.


Agreed! My analysis leaves much to be desired.
Vera Mont January 16, 2023 at 00:54 #772943
I just watched an interesting documentary about Paleolithic people, which, among other things, dealt with a meeting place where a number of many small bands came together from time to time, so the young men and women could meet. There was dancing and stone art and presumably feasting. Either the man or the woman could then join the people of their chosen mate. It seems they were aware of the need for genetic diversity.
Bug Biro January 18, 2023 at 03:40 #773576
Quoting Vera Mont
How many - or rather, what percent of the population - is enough?



The answer to this depends on various factors, the most determining being what people ask of rulers. Civilian demands that decrease benefits, short-term or long-term, for wealthy and influential people, the response from the government will most definitely be to resist what is asked of them. Who allies with protesters is likely to reveal causes deemed valid or invalid by the opposition in power. Celebrities whose opinions hold gravitas (or so it appears) who claim approval of urged acclimation indicate the wants of commoners will soon be met. The fewer the riches or less manipulation anticipated for decision-makers by enact of change, the greater the sum of humans mandatory for a victorious end to their protest and imperative is the maximal time spent by rebels declaring the value of their stance to bolster its fulfillment.
Vera Mont January 18, 2023 at 03:53 #773577
Quoting Bug Biro
The answer to this depends on various factors, what it is people ask of rulers the most determining of which.


I suspect it's more a question of what kind of leaders they're asking. Not every government will order running over a protester with a tank, but some will. Not every government dares to gun down a crowd from atop buildings, but some do. A government might back down on punitive taxation or ease up on civil liberties, but they will never, ever make a move against the rich. Who is on the protesters' side matters, if it's top army brass or top level clergy - otherwise, not.
Bug Biro January 18, 2023 at 04:09 #773578
Quoting Vera Mont
I suspect it's more a question of what kind of leaders they're asking.


That truly is the most impactful factor. I failed to consider that. Good that you did.
Vera Mont January 18, 2023 at 04:35 #773579
Our world is a very sick puppy. It's no surprise so many of us are, too.
BC January 18, 2023 at 06:23 #773596
Quoting Bug Biro
What do you think of these thoughts?


Have you read The Sane Society by Erich Fromm? Pretty good book.

There are people who are crazy without reference to society--people experiencing the severe depression and mania which is often manifested in bipolar disease are an example. Schizophrenia is another, as is OCD and a few other mental illnesses.

Then, as you say, there are a lot of people who have been driven crazy by the crazy society they live in.

However people arrived at 'crazy', living in a nuthouse society makes things worse.

The interesting cases are the very decent, imminently sane people who manage to live in crazy societies without suffering.
Vera Mont January 18, 2023 at 14:58 #773694
Quoting BC
The interesting cases are the very decent, imminently sane people who manage to live in crazy societies without suffering.


I don't think they escape suffering. They just cope with it privately, and express it only in prose, teaching and art.
Bug Biro January 19, 2023 at 01:09 #773860
Quoting Bug Biro
Civilian demands that decrease benefits, short-term or long-term, for wealthy and influential people, the response from the government will most definitely be to resist what is asked of them.



A thought arose that expands on my above statement and relates to another long-time belief of mine: Certain conspiracy theories. This theory combines collusion with philosophy:

Any ask of civilians that will improve their lives will undoubtedly cause affluent people to lose immense amounts of money or weaken their abilities to control what matters. Every society operates under the same overarching objective: An optimized increase in riches and influence of people who already possess far more than most. Certain countries are nearly at capacity for this goal. Sovereign people are supplied with insurmountable fortunes from a small group with staggering wealth, those who possess the most currency from all over the world across history. So much money given requires the provided to obey the whims of their benefactors. The sum entails committing any action without repercussions. The richest in the world inherited what was secured by their ancestors, control over nearly every facet of life. For entertainment and pleasure, the supremely wealthy puppeteer governance regulations with slow incremental rise, difficult to discern, of misery and discomfort for most humans or stage horrifying conditions to bestow on individuals. The more an amendment benefits the masses, the more sizeable a reduction of earnings for the stockpilers of wealth. Changes that worsen the lives of civilians accumulate fortune and leverage for the collective of heirs and subsidiaries. Splendour existence leads to allotment of wealth comparable to the early ages of currency circulation. After a far spread of even funds, the next logical step is to render money worthless around the globe. The success of this concept relies on balancing resources to build camaraderie between all nations. Fair distribution of necessities followed by sporadic dispersal. All countries convert to First World countries. Removal of currency proves a potent suppressant of human suffering. The initiative of no cash, no cost will be considered the remedy for wasted human potential, the spark for rapid progress toward a near-perfect existence for all of us.
javi2541997 January 19, 2023 at 12:49 #774021
First of all, this is impossible to reach out: Quoting Bug Biro
The initiative of no cash and no cost is considered the most helpful remedy gifted to humans by humans and sparks rapid progress in the accomplishment of a near-perfect existence for all of us.


In the other hand, I am somehow agree with you arguments on conspiracy but I object that it looks like all societies work as you described and that's a fallacy.
We don't have perfect countries, communities, organisations, etc... it is true, but we have to consider some examples which work with efficiency: I guess Nordic countries such Denmark, Norway, Finland or Sweden can fit on what you are looking for. Their population is relatively small, public administrations work good, politicians are not so corrupted, there are a lot of civic people, etc... so, in my view, I doubt that conspiracy has a clue in Nordic countries at all.
The richest - as you targeted - only operate with evil practices in the countries they are allowed to do so. It is not the same being a monopoly in Mexico where the justice doesn't even existence, that in European Union where is the markets are controlled.

Note: I am not pretending to say that European Union is perfect compared to Mexico (for example). My point is the fact that conspiracies have more deep impacts in some countries than others.
Bug Biro January 19, 2023 at 14:27 #774037
Quoting javi2541997
I guess Nordic countries such Denmark, Norway, Finland or Sweden can fit on what you are looking for. Their population is relatively small, public administrations work good, politicians are not so corrupted, there are a lot of civic people, etc... so, in my view, I doubt that conspiracy has a clue in Nordic countries at all.


The unproven vastness of riches the supremely wealthy possess, I don't doubt they have bribed every single politician there is right now and most of how many there ever were. Cash flow siphons to them daily. I would guess hundreds of millions or more each day. Perhaps you are right, but I have a hard time believing that the wealthiest people could have jurisdiction in only certain parts of the world. I think the lives of every person on the planet and the future of all of us are a part of a carefully laid out plan of prolonged power and to keep the massive corruption going on in secrecy for the most part.

On second thought, corruption may take more time than my previous surmise suggests. A relatively short list of suggestible who qualify for social conditioning to be subjugated to evil s not unthinkable. The choice to conserve their typical life or surrender to bottomless funds and unprecedented freedom to do anything, good or bad, perchance, most people would vote to safeguard their moral beliefs. Consideration solely of retailed servility or a tormented demise brings to mind many purchases.
javi2541997 January 19, 2023 at 14:58 #774042
Quoting Bug Biro
. Probably many people would choose to be moral instead accepting bottomless funds and unprecedented freedom to do anything freely, good or bad.


Fortunately, most of the people is in the first group. Otherwise, the world would never had progressed in centuries.
Bug Biro January 19, 2023 at 15:06 #774043
Quoting javi2541997
Otherwise, the world would never had progressed in centuries.


I think you underestimate the wits and resolve of the wealthiest to continue having total freedom and never face punishment for their frightful actions. To secure the same ritual for their future bloodline.
javi2541997 January 19, 2023 at 15:47 #774049
Quoting Bug Biro
wealthiest to continue having total freedom and never face punishment


Sooner or later they face punishment. Most of the politicians who were corrupt or made illegal activity, ended up condemned by judges. The scandals of the richest were uncovered and they suffered a big punishment by both society and courts. Some examples:

1. Impeachment of Bill Clinton: Bill Clinton, was impeached by the United States House of Representatives of the 105th United States Congress on December 19, 1998, for "high crimes and misdemeanors". Charges: Perjury, obstruction of justice, abuse of power. Despite Clinton remained in power, his personal image was depleted in the next elections.

2. Jeffrey Epstein's child prostitution: Epstein was arrested again on July 6, 2019, on federal charges for the sex trafficking of minors in Florida and New York. Epstein's lawyers have disputed the ruling, and there has been significant public skepticism about the true cause of his death, resulting in numerous conspiracy theories.
Bug Biro January 19, 2023 at 17:48 #774085
Quoting javi2541997
Jeffrey Epstein's child prostitution: Epstein was arrested again on July 6, 2019, on federal charges for the sex trafficking of minors in Florida and New York.


My impression was that child sex rings are geared toward people who receive lavish pay for what their job might be. The wealthiest people on the planet have no need for those places. By my speculation, ones who exceed riches have myriads of sex slaves of all ages in stockades on standby for delivery by a single gesture to where they are or will be stationed. I'm convinced that child prostitution occurs daily at numerous locations by multiple perpetrators. An unsurprising discovery would be criminals liable for child trafficking are free because they provide accessibility for people of authority and considerable net worth to commit crimes so heinous they are meticulously hidden from the public. Police officers aware of these "hideouts" and where they operate in their cities is woefully proven. These are severe issues with nothing being done about them. They need to be addressed by the media and ended by the police. Strategies need to be in place to disallow their reestablishing. The day of preventive actions said to be happening will be a tremendous relief for me, and hopefully, it symbolizes better days ahead.
Agent Smith January 21, 2023 at 17:09 #774592
What is the 2020's (as a decade) zeitgeist?
introbert January 24, 2023 at 09:48 #775390
It's an interesting topic. I agree with your theory. Maybe I think in a too philosophical and abstract way for a nonphilosopher, but it is in metaphysics and not science where there is an analogy of concepts rather than an isolation and objectification of everything. Metaphysics is not hard to teach people. Theres a lot to be said on the topic but metaphysics in the modern period is actually in a state of oppression. I believe the premodern was more metaphysical in thinking and this too is akin to schizophrenia. It's a complicated subject to talk about, but what has happened in the modern period from pogroms to prescriptions was really based on an emerging psychiatry. A modernization of morality of the soul of society. There is a lot to know on the subject and despite the argumentative nature of opposing forms of knowledge, and the potential of argument to make revolutionary change, science is a moral decision one makes about metaphysics: about restricting what is understandable. Science is psychiatry, period. Metaphysics connects interrelated webs of concepts that science persecutes: metaphysics-schizophrenia-irony-religion-primitive-natural-soul etc. Antipsychiatry is not just about being against systematic poisonings its about resisting the scientific construction of a reality that isolates, objectifies, and applies methods on everything problematic to it.
Agent Smith January 24, 2023 at 15:58 #775456
Allah Rahim (God is merciful) mon ami, Allah Rahim.