Life is a competition. There are winners, and there are losers. That's a scary & depressing reality.
When you were born into this world, nobody told you that in this world/life, there are winners & losers. Most people of course will obviously dream or wish/hope to be a winner (eg: successful, rich, famous, have a happy life, have a lot of friends, married happily with kids, etc etc etc). But in reality, we all know that's not how the world works. In reality, not everyone can be a winner. People can lose, fail, sometimes even miserably (or tragically).
Some people are lucky, some people are not. Some people are happy, while some other people are not. That's life. It's naive to think/assume that everybody in this world will be happy or successful. Wake up & look at reality. How many people in this world are suffering in pain? (eg: poverty, hungers, wars, disease/illness, failures, etc etc). This is not paradise, heaven, nor utopia. The world is not all sunshine & rainbows, even if most people would always want to be positive/optimistic.
And that realization is scary & depressing, at least for me personally. What's even scarier is even just one single little mistake can eventually be fatal enough to turn your life upside down, sometimes with no way back up again. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. There are a lot of examples & stories like this in life. I'm actually one of the examples (or proof). Of course when I was young, I never thought nor imagined my life could turn out or become like this now. So sad, pathetic, and a failure (at 40 years old now). Nobody told me nor warned me that life can be like this. Nobody told me about the harsh, cold reality (yes maybe I was privileged & spoiled enough to not see the reality). People always hope, or think that I will be successful, that I will 'make it big', etc etc. But unfortunately/sadly, that's not the reality.
What do you think? Can you relate to what I think/feel?
(Sorry if my English is not good, because English is not my first language. I'm from Indonesia)
Some people are lucky, some people are not. Some people are happy, while some other people are not. That's life. It's naive to think/assume that everybody in this world will be happy or successful. Wake up & look at reality. How many people in this world are suffering in pain? (eg: poverty, hungers, wars, disease/illness, failures, etc etc). This is not paradise, heaven, nor utopia. The world is not all sunshine & rainbows, even if most people would always want to be positive/optimistic.
And that realization is scary & depressing, at least for me personally. What's even scarier is even just one single little mistake can eventually be fatal enough to turn your life upside down, sometimes with no way back up again. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. There are a lot of examples & stories like this in life. I'm actually one of the examples (or proof). Of course when I was young, I never thought nor imagined my life could turn out or become like this now. So sad, pathetic, and a failure (at 40 years old now). Nobody told me nor warned me that life can be like this. Nobody told me about the harsh, cold reality (yes maybe I was privileged & spoiled enough to not see the reality). People always hope, or think that I will be successful, that I will 'make it big', etc etc. But unfortunately/sadly, that's not the reality.
What do you think? Can you relate to what I think/feel?
(Sorry if my English is not good, because English is not my first language. I'm from Indonesia)
Comments (67)
Everything has a price tag, not necessarily monetary. One has to pay up at some point, if not now, later, for certain. Some of course don't realize it and I don't mind that, nobody in his right mind would - be happy, enjoy life, have a ball. Others seem to possess the Devil's luck - a smooth ride, no bumps, no flat tyres, a full tank a gas, no engine problems, etc. Then there are folks whose whole life's a train wreck, from start to finish a series of disasters. My heart goes out to them - life wasted, love wasted, potential wasted, just another thing the cat picked up, but always do remember Allah Rahim or El Rachum, God is merciful. :heart:
When life hands you lemons, make lemonade.
Since you asked and you seem troubled:
I think your mind is probably working against you, and you probably need to refactor and refocus. What do you really want from yourself, not the world that comes later? Do you want to be afraid and depressed because the world is not up to your standards? Do you really think that's a good enough reason to sabotage your inner life? Will it really help you or the world in any way? Don't count yourself as a victim NEVER EVER. You have the capacity to adapt; use it. What you think; you feel, and what you feel makes you think it again. Learn to break your cycles.. observe yourself, identify, refactor, and refocus. Your circle of concern should be of the same radius as your circle of influence, no more no less.
On the contrary, life for humans is a cooperative game, a game of loving and caring for each other, and this is a much better game because we all can win. Even the most helpless and feeble has a role and can add to the happiness of the world. Even if you are alone in a hole you cannot get out of, you can decorate your hole and make it the best hole you can.
And your English is good by the way, welcome to the site.
Welcome!
"Life is a competition" is a story that comes from the command "Compete!" But insofar as we are human, to give in to that command is a choice and however we then feel is a result of our own choice. We can deny but not escape our responsibility here. Social ideologies (stories) have only and all the power we give them, and we don't have to give them everything. "Compete" is not the only possible command as un pointed out. There is "Cooperate", "Flourish", "Create" etc.
If the story of our life is based on the idea that we have no control over its direction (there is one and only one ultimate command beyond out capacity to choose) then we have already failed regardless. We have failed to recognise we are human and have choices, not only over how we do things but over what we value. We should not punish ourselves for failing to get to the end of a social cul de sac. Better to create stories for ourselves that give us power and reject those that take it away.
The minute you are summoned by the people with power and money, that fantasy goes away. Agency is had by those that have the knowledge and power is had by those who can make money from that knowledge whilst using those who dont have the knowledge or money to get stuff done so they can sell the products of that knowledge to those who passively and ignorantly use them.
Of course OP feels a sense of alienation and disconnect.
Yes, consumer society is exploitative and alienating. I agree. If that is enough for you to build a prison for yourself, feel free.
Its not just consumer society, but any consumption of advanced technology and workers working for owners/boards with high powered tech and science, is participating in this. Its unavoidable even in a society of relative non consumerism.
Its not of ones own making. One cannot change the throwness of history and society. One can only become more comfortable accepting but never changing the immovable throwness and that seems to be what the OP is getting at. No agency but all acceptance. They can imprison you but they cant break you is not great consolation.
If you think that's the best you can come up with, feel free.
Can that not be said to anyone?
I remember learning this lesson a long time ago; it's one of the best lessons i've ever learned because it's so versatile. This is probably the best advice in this thread , and it's at least worth contemplating upon until it makes absolute sense if it doesn't already.
Keep on trying, and your English is great!
To "win" is to cultivate virtue and self-mastery, though one doesn't triumph over anybody else except perhaps one's lesser self, thus this type of winning does not imply the existence of a loser.
Anyone can do this, and one may very well argue that virtue and self-mastery are cultivated more frequently by those who have less than those who have more.
:smile:
Quoting Tzeentch
:up:
Quoting niki wonoto
What would be the ideal society and situation for you?
Can you redefine the prison or do you just accept the conditions as it is what it is?
Can you redefine your loaded question or do we just accept your condition is what we are?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13957/intent-and-selective-word-use
I desperately wish I knew how to awaken children to their own talents and interest and help them find a path to their self actualization. But in my old age I regret the young do not want to know what I think and they are making very bad decisions, such as smoking pot and refusing to go to school. As they know very little of life, they are sure they know all they really need to know. I think everyone creates their own drama about what life is and who they are and from there they are busy proving themselves right.
I think you may be right about adversity being a good motivator. I am concerned that Christianity has hindered us in the need to learn of virtues and intentionally act on them until doing so becomes a habit, because Christianity is about being saved by the Savior, instead of being saved by our will to develop virtual habits.
But it's not like it's a hard dichotomy, where either you get to be a success or you fail, as if you either get accepted into Harvard or you work a menial labor job. There are a thousand points between, and sometimes success is obtaining your GED or getting the small promotion at work. Competition need not be a contest of keeping up with the Joneses, but an internal competition of trying to acheive whatever it is you aim for. You do have a choice in those matters, and you can do what you can to try to fulfill that goal and to interpret your succes.
I also don't agree that for every winner there is a loser, and we should just accept that some of us will lose so others can win. There aren't a limited number of winning tickets that you just have to hope you will land, but it's possible that all can win but there is a significant component up to you.
Luckily my loaded question has no efficacy as to affecting someones life as compared to the reality of our social existence, oui?
Yet, that's the main problem of my generation. Most of them do not seem to be motivated in learning something and they waste a lot of valuable time in wacky acts. The line of understanding what is worthy or not has become more and more blur. Paradoxically, our generation which has more opportunities for learning than the previous, are at the same time the most vague or ignorant.
I do wonder about this sometimes. I have been struck by the number of Christians on this board who have expressed similar sentiments, and it was foreign to me as a non-Christian to hear. That is, the virtue of humility rooted in the idea of being born into failure and requiring self-abandoment to a savior to pull you from damnation I would think could engender a feeling a meekness and helplessness.
Counter this with a view of being born into perfection and holiness with a charge to seek justice and I think you end up with a very different psychology.
My background is the latter, and the things people say in the religion threads regarding religious fear and whatever else isn't something I was used to hearing.
@Baden
The problem too is you probably had something specific happen and rightly, you dont go into detail, thus any advice is also going to be largely vague and just general positive redirections. You can do it, its not as bad as you think, and dont let em get ya down type of thing.
But @Hanover had some point that life is not necessarily a zero sum game of winners and losers in terms of the possibility of making a living. However, it is setup a certain way that is basically intractable. You were born, in this world you have to survive, and history has its contingent ever present constraint along with the cultural artifacts of what came from it.
It's not luck that your loaded question satisfies you. It satisfies you because it satisfies your story. No more. And what validates or invalidates our stories is our experience of the behaviours that manifest them. If your story satisfies you in terms of how you live your life to its demands then that is your justification for maintaining it. The pretence to objectivity fails. Your pills are for those who like prisons. And that's fine for those who do.
I actually agree here about objectivity to an extent. I understand the mindset of self-help is to look within for coping better with the external restraints. Why is my redirecting the lens as to focus on the external restraints not allowed? That itself is suspicious and not uncommon for people to be hostile towards. And I dont think because we cant help what we cant help answers this.
Au contraire, I've told you twice: Quoting Baden I am not one to stand between someone and their pleasure. I'm merely holding the flashlight.
Sure, and you were forced to say that by these constraints and me to say otherwise, which is the meaninglessness of determinism and which is even more meaningless to suggest we've figured it out, considering whatever we figured out was what we had to think regardless.
Or, we have free will and despite these contraints can make our lives better or worse based upon how we decide.
How does determinism make it meaningless to learn? It just means that you were always going to learn x at time y.
Christianity is a platform for a multitude of outlooks. One of my favorites is the kind that Abraham Lincoln grew up with. It dictated that every person is born for some reason. It's up to the individual to discern what that purpose is by listening for the voice of God in the events that unfold around one. Lincoln was apparently sustained by this belief, I'd say in a way an atheist couldn't be.
Wonderful. Yes, yes, yes. Thanks for making it so I don't have to post.
I also agree with this.
Well, Im not referring to determinism. Im referring to literally how our scoop-economic cultural system is setup and how it is near impossible to work against these larger forces, so the usual advice is as you and others are doing which is the self-help mindset of change yourself so you can try to fit the system better.
It means you were going to do X. You have know way of knowing what you did, why you did it, or whether it was learned or always known.
The impossibility of knowledge under determinism: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3327972
Why couldn't you know what you did and why you did it? Determinism just means there was always a 100% chance you would do x, realize y, etc.
Look at you with your JSTOR access. I can't read that until I go to work.
If you you say that you know you're going to work because you're in the car, my response would be that you know what it's in your head and you're barking at me whatever sounds you might be, but the idea that you think you can judge how you know things doesn't exist in a predetermined world.
Taking this to an actual judge. Let's say you go before the court and argue your case and provide all the reasons why the judge should find you not guilty, but he then finds you guilty. You then ask the clerk why that happened, and she tells you, "Oh, his decisions are predetermined."
You're saying that knowledge requires judgement, and judgment requires freedom to choose a direction.
The determinist would say that though the judge may sway back and forth, giving each account a fair hearing, being devoted to rendering judgement with no prior bias, he can ultimately only make one choice.
That choice is what he or she was always going to conclude.
Success pertains in the degree to which we can resist the system's conception of success in preference for our own. Success lies neither in being appropriated by some arbitrary cultural notion of success nor by giving in to helplesness and misery. E.g. The best free climber in the world, Alex Honnold, was, initially, virtually unknown, had no money and lived out of his car. He neither dumped his passion to pursue more traditional forms of success nor spent his time fretting over useless self-defeating philosophies. And I very much doubt he stole his desire from a self-help cookie jar.
Assuming determinism is true, the determinist will say whatever the determinist says, and he might say the judge exercised a completely free will, but he'll say that because he had to, and there's a good chance he'll even believe it because most do believe in free will, or at least that's what I'm led to think.
The point here is that free will is a necessary prerequesite for the organization of our thoughts and our understanding of the world, without which nothing makes sense. So, it's not as if we all act as if we have free will although are otherwise determined, but it is that we have free will or else we're all just barking things thinking we're meaning something but are instead just doing whatever we have to do.
Because morality is fundamental to identity, I agree. But note that here, we're focusing on the way we're bound to think.
If you were open to it, I could show you why hard determinism is also indubitable (I'd stick to Schopenhauer).
What's left is to just be amazed that there is an insurmountable conflict within our intellectual make-up. I'd leave it Schopenhauer again, to point to what this implies.
But at the end of our Schopenhauer journey, we'd have to face the fact that we never strayed beyond noticing what we're bound to think. What does the way we have to think have to do with the way the world is? For that, we'd turn to Wittgenstein and become mystics.
Why do you ask if I'm open to it unless you think I have a choice in the matter?
Say whatever you will, as you must, and speak of Schopenhauer.
While determinism might demand that there be just one possible world, I don't see why it must demand that that one world consist only of that that who don't doubt determinism.
And more broadly, everything occurs for a reason.
I don't know whether you're open to it, though I suspect not. I don't see how choice is involved here.
Quoting Hanover
You're free to believe whatever you like. You can't choose what you like, though.
Yes.
No. The idea that life is a competition just sounds like the dull and inchoate musings of advertising folk. Life is whatever you make of it. Don't overthink it and avoid harming others, Son. You'll be fine.
COMMENT ON ABOVE
I read over my response above and your OP again after the stern words of @Frank. On reflection I also think what I wrote here was not very useful and glib. Sorry.
What I should have said is that the idea that life is a competition is unhelpful and stress making. It's the chief myth of our times, thanks mainly to marketing, advertising and social media. Trying to beat other people in happiness, wealth or power is likely a zero-sum game.
It may sound banal but the best we can do in life is not judge ourselves by the standards of others and not over analyse our situations. We can only do the best we can with what we have and try not to harm others along the way. The experience of living is unjust and unequal - to a great extent this is out of our hands. Some people find Stoicism helpful on this subject.
It's in keeping with what a Korean guy told me about life there. Maybe the same is true in Indonesia.
Yeh, pretty sure they have advertising in Indonesia. Very nice this time of year.
Yeah, your experiences of life are likewise some bullshit off the television, I'm sure.
Me? You're the one spitting on other people's experiences.
Really? There was no intention to 'spit' on anyone.
Yeah, actually you did intend that.
Quoting frank
I would venture this is an example of some considered abuse, while my response to the OP was sincere. If it was taken as insensitive or blunt, I apologise.
Yeah, so I'll ignore you from on. :up:
Herodotus, book 1, from 30:
Perhaps it would be wise not yet to judge your fortune nor your happiness. There's still time to change the road you're on.
I am not sure about your generation being so different from mine even though I argue a lot about how the 1958 National Defense Education Act ruined education. Maybe you would like to know, before the Act we educated for good moral judgment and good citizenship. That education had its faults, but I think the complete change following the Act was a big mistake and set everyone up for being dependent on the "experts" and obeying rather than being one's own authority and leading. We have experienced a cultural change, but youth are youth, the same as they have been since a Sumerian father lamented on how he gave his son everything and instead of his son building on the benefits his father gave, he was irresponsible and wasted his time. Athenians thought it was pointless trying to teach the young how to think because they would not be capable of understanding until they were 30 years of age.
Wow, that first paragraph was strong and well stated. Our democracy comes for Athens and the notion that we can be noble, and should strive for arete (excellence). It is not compatible with the Christian understanding of being born in sin and needing to be saved.
But Christianity is not the same for everyone. Starting with Calvinism, is the notion that God has a chosen few who will entered the after life and nothing they do will change that, nor will a the masses have a shot at the after life. Everything being God's decision, not our human effort, but not knowing who is a chosen person and who is not, everyone competed to appear as a chosen person, and this branch of Christianity befitted our economic growth. However, in the colonies they lived in tightly controlled small communities and I don't think a young person would have dared to be slovenly or rebellious. Some of the beliefs are very paradoxical. :roll:
I grew up with the Christian teachings and began pulling away when I was 8 and a Sunday School teacher could not give me a good explanation of why Christians and Catholics are divided. I made a complete and total break from Christianity when fear of being possessed by Satan tormented me. I had to chose either I was going to be superstitious or I was not. I strongly believe it was the Greek gods and philosophy that saved me. They taught how to be my own hero.
The idea that we are born for a reason can echo back to Aristotle. Birds fly, horses run, man reasons. But what you said is also true about having a great benefit if one believes Jesus answers our prayers and takes care of us, unless we anger Him and then He punishes us. Both sides of the Civil War in the US believed God was on their side. The bible can be used to justify slavery or argue against it, and when people believe they are doing the will of God and God is on their side, the commitment to the colony, the war, the move west, will be intense.
What is happening in the world today that can give the young a sense of purpose? I feel like we are free falling into chaos and desperately need to restore order and social purpose.
True. But you've scooted from "Christianity makes people passive" to "it's a two edged sword."
Quoting Athena
Climate change should do it.
I like it when specific examples are given to cut through endless dialogues about abstractions. I know Alex and have done a podcast with him. He would shy away from "best free climber", but he could not dispute the fact he has done the most amazing climbing in the history of the sport. His sponsorships, now, I'm sure are substantial, but he certainly didn't set aim for monetary riches. However, I don't think he started out being helpless and miserable.
I've known quite a few "dirtbag" climbers over the years and for most their way of life is not the result of cultural conflicts, but rather a calling. Another friend, a "dirtbag" living on less than a half dollar a day, when I had the luxury of a dollar a day, eons ago, pursued somewhat different goals and ended up a billionaire who recently formed a foundation to protect the environment. But climbing reaches deep within you and you find a way to make a life that at least includes it.
Nevertheless, there is always one form or another of competition underlying the lifestyle. And most have to do with exploring the unknown or pushing boundaries, either by advancing one's credentials by identifying with a certain quantified level of difficulty - a little like a Karate student reaching Black Belt levels - or making a first ascent, or doing something else seen as admirable by the community.
Oui! :rofl:
Oh yes, religions can bring out the best or the worst in people. Actually, I think the God of Abraham religions are worse when it comes to being divisive and wars. The basic mythology of a God having favorites is just wrong. And we can't get much more paradoxical that a superstitious religion that opposes superstition. :lol:
It could be a truly wonderful thing if climate change brought the world together and we used our intelligence for creating paradise. As I see that, it would be much more organic than high-tech. If we loved our planet as much as we love our technology, I think that would be a good thing. Imagine creating the most beautiful habitats instead of the most deadly weapons and fearing our own mistakes more than the will of a God or other humans. Our reality just does not make sense for intelligent beings. Blowing up millions of dollars and having nothing but destruction to show for all that money, instead of creating paradise. That is really dumb!
The question may be to what extent is the idea of winners or losers based on outer measurements of success. It is a dicey issue because validation, especially in the context of the social contexts may be important, especially in relation to ego identity. To what extent does it come down to social estimations. For example, does the esteemed philosophy professor and successful author have ultimate authority in knowledge. What about the person who may have explored deeply but is unknown or socially rejected? Life is competition, and probably unfair, and what may be important is how a person perceives one's value in this scheme.
Are those who deemed as losers or failures simply measured according to the social measures, especially as these may change? However, an important aspect may be that competition may make or break a person's sense of self-worth, as well as competition having a significant impact on economic survival. There is the question as to what extent one may sell one's soul to achieve the world. However, equally one may lose the world, materially and socially, which may drag the soul to destruction, making competition a trickster dimension in the search for ego integrity.
Sometimes I wonder too, what if it's true that some people are just born to lose? What if it's true that it's just their 'fate' or 'destiny' (or whatever it is) to be a failure/loser? What if it's true that some people are just not meant for this world? But then, why born? Well, because Life is random, isn't it? Even if there is some type of "god" or something like that, I'm afraid it's probably just the bad/evil one, playing & toying & experimenting around, at least with some of its creations. Or again, everything is random, & pointless, meaningless. Anything can happen, including any type of bad things unthinkable. Yes, even the random stupid shits, like me & my life for example. Things happened. Shits happened. That's life. For the winners, of course they're happy. But for the losers like me, it's seriously making me severely/heavily depressed & suicidal.