Adventures in Metaphysics 1: Graham Harman's Object-Oriented Ontology

schopenhauer1 May 11, 2023 at 01:20 7300 views 47 comments
Ok, so I'm inspired by some recent threads to dive into some metaphysics. I'd like to start a series of "Adventures" into various ideas of speculative philosophy. I propose the first one as Graham Harman's Object-Oriented Philosophy.

Graham Harman:
Quoting Wiki
Graham Harman (born May 9, 1968) is an American philosopher and academic. He is Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the Southern California Institute of Architecture in Los Angeles.[3] His work on the metaphysics of objects led to the development of object-oriented ontology. He is a central figure in the speculative realism trend in contemporary philosophy.[4]


Object-Oriented Ontology:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_ontology

Highlights (from Wiki article above):
Rejection of anthropocentrism:
Anthropocentrism is the privileging of humans as "subjects" over and against nonhuman beings as "objects". The widespread tendency frequently limits attributes such as mind, autonomy, moral agency, reason, and the like to humans, while contrasting all other beings as variations of "object", or things obeying deterministic laws, impulses, stimuli, instincts, and so on.

Critique of correlationism
Related to 'anthropocentrism', object-oriented thinkers reject speculative idealist correlationism, which the French philosopher Quentin Meillassoux defines as "the idea according to which we only ever have access to the correlation between thinking and being, and never to either term considered apart from the other".[12] Because object-oriented ontology is a realist philosophy, it stands in contradistinction to the anti-realist trajectory of correlationism, which restricts philosophical understanding to the correlation of being with thought by disavowing any reality external to this correlation as inaccessible, and, in this way, fails to escape the ontological reification of human experience.[13]

Rejection of undermining, "overmining", and "duomining":
Object-oriented thought holds that there are two principal strategies for devaluing the philosophical import of objects.[14] First, one can undermine objects by claiming that they are an effect or manifestation of a deeper, underlying substance or force.[15] Second, one can "overmine" objects by either an idealism which holds that there is nothing beneath what appears in the mind or, as in social constructionism, by positing no independent reality outside of language, discourse or power.[16][17] Object-oriented philosophy rejects both undermining and "overmining"

Preservation of finitude:
Unlike other speculative realism, object-oriented ontology maintains the concept of finitude, whereby relation to an object cannot be translated into a direct and complete knowledge of an object.[21] Since all object relations distort their related objects, every relation is said to be an act of translation, with the caveat that no object can perfectly translate another object into its own nomenclature.

Withdrawal:
Object-oriented ontology holds that objects are independent not only of other objects but also from the qualities they animate at any specific spatiotemporal location. Accordingly, objects cannot be exhausted by their relations with humans or other objects in theory or practice, meaning that the reality of objects is always ready-to-hand.[9] The retention by an object of reality in excess of any relation is known as withdrawal.

Article:
I'd like to kick this thread off by analyzing a specific article comparing Harman to Alfred North Whitehead's process philosophy (or "philosophy of the organism").

The article is
"The Actual Volcano: Whitehead, Harman, and the Problem of Relations" by Steven Shaviro on page 279 of the book The Speculative Turn: Continental Realism and Materialism (Open Access)

https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/files/104129715/2010_The_Speculative_Turn.pdf

Page 279-280:

Shaviro 279:Alfred North Whitehead writes that ‘a new idea introduces a new alternative; and we
are not less indebted to a thinker when we adopt the alternative which he discarded.
Philosophy never reverts to its old position after the shock of a new philosopher’.1
In
the last several years, such a ‘new alternative’, and such a ‘shock’, have been provided
by the group of philosophers—most notably, Graham Harman, Quentin Meillassoux,
Ray Brassier, and Iain Hamilton Grant—who have come to be known as ‘speculative realists’. These thinkers differ greatly among themselves; but they have all asked
new questions, and forced us to look at the status of modern, or post-Kantian, philosophy in a new way. They have questioned some of the basic assumptions of both ‘analytic’ and ‘continental’ thought. And they have opened up prospects for a new era
of bold metaphysical speculation. After years in which the ‘end of metaphysics’ was
proclaimed by pretty much everyone—from Carnap to Heidegger and from Derrida to Rorty—these thinkers have dared to renew the enterprise of what Whitehead called Speculative Philosophy: ‘the endeavour to frame a coherent, logical, necessary system of general ideas in terms of which every element of our experience can be
interpreted’.2
In what follows, I will compare and contrast Graham Harman’s ‘objectoriented philosophy’—one of the most impressive achievements of speculative realism to date—with Whitehead’s own ‘philosophy of organism’. My aim is to show both
how Harman helps us to understand Whitehead in a new way, and conversely to develop a Whitehead-inspired reading of Harman.


The author here tries to put this in grandiose terms for what the "Speculative Realists" are doing. It's a neologism for getting back to speculations of metaphysics as a ground of some aspect of seeing the world. He is going to compare and contrast Harman and Whitehead's approach to metaphysics. From my own background, I know that Whitehead is a process philosopher which means contrary to Harman, he doesn't take objects as mere objects, but as processes that network together in various ways.

Shaviro 279-280:The speculative realists all argue—albeit in vastly different ways—for a robust
philosophical realism, one that cannot be dismissed (as realism so often is) as being
merely ‘naive’. They all seek to break away from the epistemological, and human-centred, focus of most post-Kantian thought. Nearly all contemporary philosophy is premised, as Lee Braver shows in detail, upon a fundamental antirealism; it assumes one version or another of the Kantian claim that ‘phenomena depend upon the mind to exist’.3 Such philosophy denies the meaningfulness, or even the possibility, of any discussion of
‘things in themselves’. Modern thought remains in thrall to what Harman calls the idea
of ‘human access’,4
or to what Meillassoux calls correlationism.5
It gives a privileged position to human subjectivity or to human understanding, as if the world’s very existence
somehow depended upon our ability to know it and represent it. Even at its best, such
a philosophy subordinates ontology to epistemology; it can only discuss things, or objects, or processes, in terms of how a human subject relates to them. It does not have
‘anything at all to tell us about the impact of inanimate objects upon one another, apart
from any human awareness of this fact’.6
It maintains the unquestioned assumption that
‘we never grasp an object ‘in itself’, in isolation from its relation to the subject’, and correspondingly that ‘we can never grasp a subject that would not always-already be related to an object’.7
In short, correlationism ‘holds that we cannot think of humans without
world, nor world without humans, but only of a primal correlation or rapport between
the two’.8
As a result, correlationist philosophy ‘remains restricted to self-reflexive remarks about human language and cognition’.9
This is as much the case for recent thinkers like Derrida and Žižek, as it was before them for Kant, Husserl, and Heidegger. In
contrast, the speculative realists explore what it means to think about reality, without
placing worries about the ability of human beings to know the world at the centre of all
discussion. They are realists, because they reject the necessity of a Kantian ‘Copernican rift between things-in-themselves and phenomena’, insisting instead that ‘we are always in contact with reality’ in one way or another.10 And they are speculative, because
they openly explore traditionally metaphysical questions, rather than limiting themselves to matters of logical form, on the one hand, and empirical inquiry, on the other.
In this way, they reject both scientific positivism, and ‘social constructionist’ debunkings
of science. Harman, in particular, cuts the Gordian Knot of epistemological reflexivity, in order to develop a philosophy that ‘can range freely over the whole of the world’,
from ‘a standpoint equally capable of treating human and inhuman entities on an equal
footing’.11 Harman proposes a non-correlationist, non-human-centred metaphysics, one
in which ‘humans have no privilege at all’, so that ‘we can speak in the same way of the
relation between humans and what they see and that between hailstones and tar’.12


This discusses the main problem that speculative realists have with modern philosophy- that it focuses too much on the human subject's relation to objects and processes, rather than on the objects and processes themselves. He explains the SR idea regarding "correlationism", which they believe Kant initiated, and is the view that humans and world (non-human) as inextricably linked. The "great outdoors" of the non-human can never be accessed except by knowing it in the only ways humans know how and therefore are always closed off to other objects and processes. A person cannot "jump over their shadow" in other words. He notes that SR's reject the correlationism of post-Kantian philosophy. Rather, they deny that there is no access to "things-in-themselves" nor do they think humans are only limited to knowledge of logical form or empirical enquiry. They also reject the tendency for social constructivism (it seems alluding to post-modernism and critical theory as well here, where all knowledge is socially biased through that constructed lens). Harman particularly proposes that we need to speculate on how it is objects might interact without the need to for human epistemological considerations.

The discussion is open.
My particular questions are:

1) Can objects be understood without reference to human subjectivity?

2) Is it even wise to try to overlook the human aspect to all knowledge? Is this not only a fool's errand but somehow anti-human or is this just trying to take out a pernicious anthropomorphism that might lead to a more open field of exploration?

I invite @RussellA @creativesoul @Moliere @Metaphysician Undercover @Fooloso4 @Banno @Paine @Janus @Jamal @Tom Storm @Wayfarer and anyone else.

Comments (47)

180 Proof May 11, 2023 at 05:02 #807130
NB: I have thoroughly read Meillassoux & Brassier but immediately lose interest whenever I start reading Harman.

Quoting schopenhauer1
1) Can objects be understood without reference to human subjectivity?

Clarify what you mean by "understood".

2) Is it even wise to try to overlook the human aspect to all knowledge?

"The human aspect" can be deflated (e.g. mathematics, natural sciences).

Is this not only a fool's errand but somehow anti-human or is this just trying to take out a pernicious anthropomorphism that might lead to a more open field of exploration?

Speculative Realists seem to be attempting a more complete and consistent application of the Mediocrity Principle (i.e. anthropo-decentricity) – neither a 'view from being there' nor a 'view from nowhere', but a view from everywhere – in ontology.
Wayfarer May 11, 2023 at 05:12 #807135
Reply to schopenhauer1 My only reaction to reading the above, is that whilst Harman et al wish to depict idealism as 'anthropocentric' or 'human-centred', in fact their claim to be able to dispense with the conditions of knowledge is vain. What they're seeking to arrive at is unconditional understanding, as if from no perspective. But it was just the realisation of the impossibility of that which lead to Kant's 'Copernican revolution' in the first place. And that attitude, by contrast, is actually marked by a kind of humility - a recognition that, as human subjects, our ways-of-knowing are conditioned from the outset, by our intellectual capacity, the kinds of senses we have, the kinds of reasons we understand. So Harman's approach is actually worse than anthropocentrism - it is attempting a kind of omniscience, an all-knowingness. They're all various forms of scientism in my view.
Jamal May 11, 2023 at 08:01 #807148
Reply to schopenhauer1 I'm afraid I haven't read anything except After Finitude, and that's not even object-oriented ontology.

Reply to Wayfarer I found an interesting blog post that partly answers your objection:

[quote=Ontology for Ontology’s Sake;http://aestheticsafterfinitude.blogspot.com/2013/04/ontology-for-ontologys-sake-object.html]Like correlationism, object-oriented philosophy begins with an affirmation of the epistemological limit: we can never know the reality of the objects we encounter. Like speculative materialism, object-oriented philosophy then radicalises the correlationist position, but where speculative materialism pushes finitude into a positive epistemological premise, object-oriented philosophy simply extends finitude beyond the bounds of the human to bestow it democratically upon everything.[/quote]
Wayfarer May 11, 2023 at 08:09 #807149
Reply to Jamal.....leaving the certitude of the cogito bobbing in its wake....
Paine May 11, 2023 at 14:48 #807189
Reply to schopenhauer1
The Speculative Turn essays certainly represent very different views. It seems that much of the conversation concerns the logic of terms and what are actual unities versus arbitrary suppositions. This example by Grant makes sense to me:

Hart, Mining Conditions, a response to Harman, pg 48:Clearly, then, the problem stems from the mutual abstraction of becoming and
thing, a problem whose solution Plato already foreshadowed in coining the principle of immanence in the form of ‘the becoming of being [genesis eis ousian]’ (Philebus 26d8): it cannot be other-than-being that becomes, or becoming would not be at all. In the present context, this means: ‘the mark of all being is power’. Powers are inseparable from their products; if no products, then there were no powers, but not the reverse. It is neither the case that things ground powers, nor the converse; rather, powers unground the ultimacy attributed to substantial being and necessitate, therefore, rather than eliminate, the becomings of objects. Powers accordingly are natural history, in the precise sense that powers are not simply formally or logically inseparable from what they do, but are what they do, and compose being in its becoming. The thoroughgoing contingency of natural production undermines, I would claim, any account of permanently actual substantial forms precisely because such contingents entail the actuality not simply of abstractly separable forms, but of the powers that sculpt them. This is where
Harman’s retooling of vicarious causation will become the focus for discussion, but which must take place elsewhere.


This question relates to the scientific method used in the discussion of linguistics in the Chomsky thread and how to distinguish the "innate" from the 'environment."
Moliere May 11, 2023 at 15:16 #807193
Reply to schopenhauer1

That The Real Volcano essay in the book you linked was pretty great to read. I've been told I should read Whitehead before on the basis of things I've said, and this essay pretty much confirmed that advice.

I'm also happy to see the aesthetic nature of making a choice in metaphysics being expressed --


Harman’s difference from Whitehead,
and his creative contribution to Speculative Philosophy, consists in the ‘translation’ of
the deep problems of essence and change from one realm (that of relations) to another
(that of substances). These two realms, oddly enough, seem to be reversible into one
another—at least in an overall anti-correlationist framework. Given that ‘there is no
such thing as transport without transformation’, the only remaining question is what
sort of difference Harman’s transformation of ontology makes. I would suggest that the
contrast between Harman and Whitehead is basically a difference of style, or of aesthetics.
This means that my enjoyment of one of these thinkers’ approaches over the
other is finally a matter of taste, and is not subject to conceptual adjudication. And this
is appropriate, given that both thinkers privilege aesthetics over both ethics and epistemology.
Whitehead notoriously argues that ‘Beauty is a wider, and more fundamental,
notion than Truth’, and even that ‘the teleology of the Universe is directed to the
production of Beauty’.76 Harman, for his part, enigmatically suggests that, in a world of
substances withdrawn from all relations, ‘aesthetics becomes first philosophy’.77


Interesting stuff!


Quoting schopenhauer1
1) Can objects be understood without reference to human subjectivity?


No.

Next!

:D

I think the way you're phrasing the question makes it hard to answer though. "Understand" clearly invokes an understand-er. And usually we mean at least living things which have the capacity to understand. So the requirement of understanding the object necessitates some kind of subjectivity in the sense of an individual making choices about what to believe.

But do the objects exist without reference to human subjectivity? Yes!

Which objects, though? Oh no. Don't ask me. I can't tell. In the essay I found myself agreeing with Shaviro's exposition of Whitehead more -- I tend to think that there is an over-abundance of being, that being overflows our words, and even our conceptual distinctions like objects with their wholes and parts (a material dualism).

I've mentioned it before on the forums, but where my thinking is is in connecting the absurd to the real -- that the absurd shows how our concepts do not circumscribe all of reality, and so Kant was mistaken that all of reality coheres at all. In a backwards way, coming from the Kantian perspective, if the absurd is real then the entire project falls apart -- we can experience something which is not bounded by the categories, and therefore realism is true because there is more to reality than our conceptual apparatus.


2) Is it even wise to try to overlook the human aspect to all knowledge? Is this not only a fool's errand but somehow anti-human or is this just trying to take out a pernicious anthropomorphism that might lead to a more open field of exploration?


I'm not sure that they can, but I don't think that undermines knowledge of objects either.

Why the fear of "anthropomorphism"?

Wise or not wise, though -- I think it's interesting stuff.
Paine May 11, 2023 at 23:23 #807373
Quoting Moliere
Why the fear of "anthropomorphism"?


My impression from reading the essays so far is that it is not so much a general rejection of anthropomorphism but a response to Heidegger signaling the end of metaphysics. Thus Badiou's remark in the first essay:

Badiou: I have difficulty in understanding Laruelle [laughs] especially regarding the question of the Real. The strength of philosophy is its decisions in regards to the Real. In a sense Laruelle is too much like Heidegger, in critiquing a kind great forgetting, of what is lost in the grasp of decision, what Heidegger called thinking. Beyond this, and not to judge a thinker only by his earliest work, his most recent work has a religious dimension. When you say something is purely in the historical existence of philosophy
the proposition is a failure. It becomes religious. There is a logical constraint when you say we most go beyond philosophy. This is why, in the end, Heidegger said only a god can save us. Ultimately, I do not see an opposition between being qua being (as multiplicity) and the Real, not at all. The Real can be decided except for the event which is always in relation to a particular world.


I guess this can be seen as support for something like Spinoza's criticism of anthropomorphism. but I read it more as a challenge to whether 'post-modernism' is a thing.
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 03:18 #807399
Quoting 180 Proof
Clarify what you mean by "understood".


Yeah I guess, can they be discussed in reference to themselves without it being how humans frame the objects. It seems to be what SR and Harman in particular wants to do.

Quoting 180 Proof
Speculative Realists seem to be attempting a more complete and consistent application of the Mediocrity Principle (i.e. anthropo-decentricity) – neither a 'view from here' nor a 'view from nowhere', but a view from everywhere – in ontology.


How would a view from everywhere look different from either in your understanding?
180 Proof May 12, 2023 at 03:32 #807400
Quoting schopenhauer1
How would a view from everywhere look different from either in your understanding?

"From either" what?
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 03:39 #807403
Reply to Wayfarer Reply to Paine Reply to Moliere
So this started from a discussion I had with @RussellA in the Chomsky thread. The dialogue is below. Basically, we were originally discussing how concepts such as roundness were a priori part of the human understanding of the world. He mentioned the notion of how it is properties/judgements like "roundness" of a ball could be mind-independent. Here is the dialogue (I bolded what I thought was most important):

RussellA:
Who judges the degree of roundness? There is nothing in a mind-independent world that can make judgements about the degree of roundness. Judgements can only be made in the mind.

schopenhauer1:
It isn’t judged, it is an event. Object rolls down a hill. The object interacts with the ground in the way round objects act. It’s manifest in how the object interacts. It’s roundness is manifest in how it rolls. No one needs to label it round to interact as round objects will.

RussellA:
You say the object rolled down the hill. Who is to say that it didn't bounce, slide, skid, glide, skip or skim down the hill.

A judgement must have been made as to the manner of the object moving down the hill.

schopenhauer1:
But that’s what I’m saying, it doesn’t matter how it is labeled- an object manifested the property of rolling by its action with other objects. It may not be judged as round but acts that way.

RussellA:
I may be misunderstanding. You say that the object may not be judged as rolling, but it acts as if it were rolling.

How is it known that the object is acting as if it were rolling rather than acting in any other way, such as bouncing?

schopenhauer1:
It is not known. It is manifested in the interaction of ball with ground. It doesn’t need to be apprehended. The object does as it does in relation to the other object. In this case the object rolls down a hill. Properties of solidity and gravity are manifested in the relation of the two objects.

RussellA:
I can't resist. How do you know the object "rolls" down the hill, if, as you say "it is not known"?

I think this can be answered in various ways, one of them referring back to Harman's Object-Oriented Ontology.

Quoting Blog on OOO
Whether human or non-human, all objects should be given equal attention;
Objects are not identical to their properties;
There are two aspects to any object the ‘real object’ (RO) and the ‘sensory object’ (SO);
Real objects can only relate to one another via their sensory object;
The properties of objects are also divided into real and sensual;
The real object and the sensory object with their distinct properties or qualities (RQ and SQ) create four basis permutations: time, space (the two Kantian constructs), essence and eidos;
Philosophy has a closer relationship with aesthetics than mathematics or sciences.


So from this it appears to me that the idea of OOO might have something to say about the ball and the ground. No human judgement is needed for the interactions to relate in such a way that roundness "manifests" in its interaction with the ground. There isn't judgement of the roundness, but roundness events play out between the two objects. Roundness is not a judgement then in terms of these objects, but nonetheless the properties exist in how they manifest.
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 03:42 #807406
Quoting 180 Proof
"From either" what?


The view from here and the view from nowhere.
Wayfarer May 12, 2023 at 04:00 #807411
Reply to schopenhauer1 I'm with Russell on that. You're arguing from an empiricist viewpoint - that we learn the concept of roundness from the exposure to many instances of it. That is what JS Mill and others would argue.But there are counters to that - that in order to interpret those experiences we have, the idea of roundness must already be present in the mind. Here's one of my cribs about it:

Quoting Edward Feser
Consider that when you think about triangularity, as you might when proving a geometrical theorem, it is necessarily perfect triangularity that you are contemplating, not some mere approximation of it. Triangularity as your intellect grasps it is entirely determinate or exact; for example, what you grasp is the notion of a closed plane figure with three perfectly straight sides, rather than that of something which may or may not have straight sides or which may or may not be closed. Of course, your mental image of a triangle might not be exact, but rather indeterminate and fuzzy. But to grasp something with the intellect is not the same as to form a mental image of it. For any mental image of a triangle is necessarily going to be of an isosceles triangle specifically, or of a scalene one, or an equilateral one; but the concept of triangularity that your intellect grasps applies to all triangles alike. Any mental image of a triangle is going to have certain features, such as a particular color, that are no part of the concept of triangularity in general. A mental image is something private and subjective, while the concept of triangularity is objective and grasped by many minds at once.


Feser, Some Brief Arguments for Dualism

There's also Descartes' argument from the Sixth Meditation, where he uses the chiliagon (a thousand-sided polygon) as an example in his Sixth Meditation to demonstrate the difference between intellection and imagination. He says that, when one thinks of a chiliagon, he "does not imagine the thousand sides or see them as if they were present" before him – as he does when one imagines a triangle, for example. The imagination constructs a "confused representation," which is no different from that which it constructs of a myriagon (a polygon with ten thousand sides). However, he does clearly understand what a chiliagon is, just as he understands what a triangle is, and he is able to distinguish it from a myriagon. Therefore, the intellect is not dependent on imagination, Descartes claims, as it is able to entertain clear and distinct ideas which the imagination is unable to picture. The intellect is able to grasp a perfectly determinate concept, such as thousand-sided object, which is practically speaking imperceptible to the senses.

Finally Kant and Mill on philosophy of mathematics - Kant had argued that the structures of logic which organize, interpret and abstract observations were innate to the mind and were true and valid a priori. Mill, on the contrary, said that we believe them to be true because we have enough individual instances of their truth to generalize: in his words, "From instances we have observed, we feel warranted in concluding that what we found true in those instances holds in all similar ones, past, present and future, however numerous they may be."  Although the psychological or epistemological specifics given by Mill through which we build our logical apparatus may not be completely warranted, his explanation still nonetheless manages to demonstrate that there is no way around Kant’s a priori logic. To recount Mill's original idea in an empiricist twist: “Indeed, the very principles of logical deduction are true because we observe that using them leads to true conclusions" - which is itself ana priori pressuposition!
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 04:04 #807413
But let's move on further. @Moliere, I like your ideas, but you jumped ahead a bit. I want to read this page by page to get all the analysis from it.

Shaviro 281:Harman gives Whitehead an important place in the genealogy of speculative realist thought. For Whitehead is one of the few twentieth-century thinkers who dares
‘to venture beyond the human sphere’,13 and to place all entities upon the same footing. Whitehead rejects ‘the [Kantian] notion that the gap between human and world
is more philosophically important than the gaps between any other sorts of entities’. Or, to restate this in Whitehead’s own terms, Western philosophy since Descartes gives
far too large a place to ‘presentational immediacy’, or the clear and distinct representation of sensations in the mind of a conscious, perceiving subject.15 In fact, such perception is far less common, and far less important, than what Whitehead calls ‘perception
in the mode of causal efficacy’, or the ‘vague’ (nonrepresentational) way that entities
affect and are affected by one another through a process of vector transmission.16 Presentational immediacy does not merit the transcendental or constitutive role that Kant
attributes to it. For this mode of perception is confined to ‘high-grade organisms’ that
are ‘relatively few’ in the universe as a whole. On the other hand, causal efficacy is universal; it plays a larger role in our own experience than we tend to realize, and it can
be attributed ‘even to organisms of the lowest grade’.17


I think most important to this section is "perception in the mode of causal efficacy". This presents to me, a somewhat "radical" view that how entities effect each other, is some sort of low grade "perception".

Shaviro 281:From the viewpoint of causal efficacy, all actual entities in the universe stand on
the same ontological footing. No special ontological privileges can distinguish God
from ‘the most trivial puff of existence in far-off empty space’: in spite of all ‘gradations
of importance, and diversities of function, yet in the principles which actuality exemplifies all are on the same level’.18 And what holds for God, holds all the more for human subjectivity. Whitehead refuses to privilege human access, and instead is willing
to envision, as Harman puts it, ‘a world in which the things really do perceive each
other’.19 Causal and perceptual interactions are no longer held hostage to human-centric categories. For Whitehead and Harman alike, there is therefore no hierarchy of
being. No particular entity—not even the human subject—can claim metaphysical
preeminence, or serve as a favoured mediator. All entities, of all sizes and scales, have
the same degree of reality. They all interact with each other in the same ways, and they
all exhibit the same sorts of properties. This is a crucial aspect of Whitehead’s metaphysics, and it is one that Harman has allowed us to see more clearly than ever before.


So just re-emphasizing that humans don't have privilege to perception. Events large and small perceive. It of course elicits the question, "What is perception?".

Shaviro 282:It is in the context of this shared project that I want to discuss the crucial differences between Whitehead and Harman. Although both thinkers reject correlationism,
they do so on entirely separate—and indeed incompatible—grounds. For Whitehead, human perception and cognition have no special or privileged status, because they
simply take their place among the myriad ways in which all actual entities prehend
other entities. Prehension includes both causal relations and perceptual ones—and
makes no fundamental distinction between them. Ontological equality comes from
contact and mutual implication. All actual entities are ontologically equal, because
they all enter into the same sorts of relations. They all become what they are by prehending other entities. Whitehead’s key term prehension can be defined as any process—causal, perceptual, or of another nature entirely—in which an entity grasps, registers the presence of, responds to, or is affected by, another entity. All actual entities
constitute themselves by integrating multiple prehensions; they are all ‘drops of experience, complex and interdependent’.20 All sorts of entities, from God to the ‘most trivial
puff of existence’, figure equally among the ‘‘really real’ things whose interconnections
and individual characters constitute the universe’.21 When relations extend everywhere, so that ‘there is no possibility of a detached, self-contained local existence’, and ‘the environment enters into the nature of each thing’,22 then no single being—not the human
subject, and not even God—can claim priority over any other.


Prehension is used here. However, it seems to be an overmined term. It can refer to "registers the presence of, responds to, affected by, another entity". He then adds in "drops of experience". Is this not conflating a certain type of phenomena (experience) with a more general idea of interactions in general? How are these two tied?

180 Proof May 12, 2023 at 04:07 #807415
Quoting schopenhauer1
How would a view from everywhere look different from either in your understanding?

For me "view from everywhere" refers to objectivity / perspective-invariance (immanence), whereas "view from being there" refers to subjectivity / perspective (bias) and "view from nowhere" corresponds to a God's-eye view (transcendence).
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 04:21 #807418
Quoting Wayfarer
You're arguing from an empiricist viewpoint - that we learn the concept of roundness from the exposure to many instances of it.


Not quite. Rather, I was trying to show that specific instances (of objects) have their own form of interaction that manifests roundness in a way that bypasses judgements of roundness.
Wayfarer May 12, 2023 at 04:32 #807421
Quoting schopenhauer1
have their own form of interaction that manifests roundness


Of which you have a concept, hence the designation 'roundness' that goes with it.
Wayfarer May 12, 2023 at 10:35 #807460
Badiou:This is why, in the end, Heidegger said only a god can save us.


Perhaps he should have moved to India. They have many.
RussellA May 12, 2023 at 11:41 #807470
Quoting schopenhauer1
Can objects be understood without reference to human subjectivity?


Object-oriented ontology maintains that objects exist independently of human perception.

Taking an object that is round as an example, there is the Real Object RO and the Sensory Object SO.

I agree that there are objects that are approximately round in the world, but my assumption is that no exactly round object has ever existed or will ever exist in the world, if exactly one means within the Planck length, being [math]{10^{-35}m}[/math]

If no round object has ever existed or will ever exist, then any talk about round objects cannot be about Real Objects RO but must be about Sensory Objects SO.
Moliere May 12, 2023 at 12:58 #807481
Quoting schopenhauer1
Moliere, I like your ideas, but you jumped ahead a bit. I want to read this page by page to get all the analysis from it.


Heh. Sorry!

Quoting schopenhauer1
Prehension is used here. However, it seems to be an overmined term.


How so? By overmining I understand there to be no objects. But prehension just puts objects on the same ontological level as humans by smushing perception and effect together. So it seems to recognize the reality of objects, though they are all interconnected -- which I think might speak against your thought here:


It can refer to "registers the presence of, responds to, affected by, another entity". He then adds in "drops of experience". Is this not conflating a certain type of phenomena (experience) with a more general idea of interactions in general? How are these two tied?


If objects are all connected, and perception, response, affect, and register are the relations between entities, then a drop of experience would just be another entity. It's the kind of entity we are -- and I am a little suspicious in general of reifications of experience so I don't think I'd put it like this, but that doesn't seem to be a conflation as much as a different way of looking.
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 22:01 #807568
Quoting Wayfarer
Of which you have a concept, hence the designation 'roundness' that goes with it.


Sure, but the controversial element is whether "roundness" is a thing outside that concept. In this theory, it is, as long as two objects have some "sensory" causal affect with each other. It is neither atoms in a void (undermined), nor an "appearance" to a mind, but something that goes on with how objects themselves interact at their level.
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 22:03 #807569
Quoting RussellA
I agree that there are objects that are approximately round in the world, but my assumption is that no exactly round object has ever existed or will ever exist in the world, if exactly one means within the Planck length, being 10?35m
10
?
35
?


If no round object has ever existed or will ever exist, then any talk about round objects cannot be about Real Objects RO but must be about Sensory Objects SO.


Can you explain that more about why it cannot be the Real Object?
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 22:06 #807570
Quoting Moliere
How so? By overmining I understand there to be no objects. But prehension just puts objects on the same ontological level as humans by smushing perception and effect together. So it seems to recognize the reality of objects, though they are all interconnected -- which I think might speak against your thought here:


I guess I meant, "overused".. used to refer to too many vaguely related but not quite necessarily related things.

Quoting Moliere
If objects are all connected, and perception, response, affect, and register are the relations between entities, then a drop of experience would just be another entity. It's the kind of entity we are -- and I am a little suspicious in general of reifications of experience so I don't think I'd put it like this, but that doesn't seem to be a conflation as much as a different way of looking.


Not sure what to make of this. What do you mean "reifications of experience"?
Moliere May 12, 2023 at 22:15 #807572
Quoting schopenhauer1
Not sure what to make of this. What do you mean "reifications of experience"?


I don't think experience is a thing, so to treat it as if it is a thing -- like a drop, in analogy to water -- is a reification of what is not a thing.

Hypostatization is pretty much what I have in mind. If experience be material, as a materialist must accept if they are not eliminative, it's still not a thing. Experience is of things, and reification is when you treat what is conceptual or experiential as if it were the same as the things it's about.
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 22:19 #807573
Quoting Moliere
Hypostatization is pretty much what I have in mind. If experience be material, as a materialist must accept if they are not eliminative, it's still not a thing. Experience is of things, and reification is when you treat what is conceptual or experiential as if it were the same as the things it's about.


Oh yes, I think I agree with this, but perhaps this choice of words will be explained as I believe I've heard it before in relation to Whitehead.
Moliere May 12, 2023 at 22:19 #807574
Quoting schopenhauer1
I guess I meant, "overused".. used to refer to too many vaguely related but not quite necessarily related things.


Also, fair. It's easy enough to say everything that is is equiprimordial. Things get confusing after that.
Wayfarer May 12, 2023 at 22:22 #807576
Quoting schopenhauer1
Sure, but the controversial element is whether "roundness" is a thing outside that concept.


But that, I suggest, is the fundamental misconception of the role of ideas in Platonic philosophy. It's not as if 'the ball' and 'roundness' are two things. Roundness doesn't exist as a kind of free-floating abstract shape in an ethereal medium which your actual ball is a poor imitation of (which is a popular depiction of platonic ideas). Indeed, ideas don't exist at all in the sense that objects do. I think what makes it hard to grasp - and this really is metaphysics - is that in those forms of classical philosophy, reality was hierarchical, which allowed for degrees of reality. Whereas modern philosophy has tended to 'flatten' ontology such that anything that exists, exists in the same way. This is why there are disputes over platonic realism in philosophy of maths. Numbers, and so on, don't exist in the same way as objects. So the tendency is to declare that they don't exist at all, save as mental constructs; things either exist, or they don't, in other words, existence is univocal, has only one meaning.
creativesoul May 12, 2023 at 22:40 #807581
Quoting schopenhauer1
1) Can objects be understood without reference to human subjectivity?


Thanks for the invite. Not sure how much I can help, or whether or not I can add anything of substantive value to the discussion.

Interesting OP. I may have finally found "my label"... Speculative Realist.

If the notion of understanding is on par with a worldview and/or belief system, and as such need not be true, accurate, or correct, then it seems to me that understanding is nearly identical with/to 'human subjectivity'.

We can and do understand all sorts of stuff without referencing human subjectivity. It's all fraught though. I mean, by my lights, the very distinction between subject and object is inherently inadequate. It cannot take into account anything that consists of both subject and object. Understanding is itself is one such thing. The very same is true of everything ever thought, believed, spoken, written, and/or otherwise uttered. Such things consist of both, subject and object. Hence, neither "subject' nor "object" is capable of taking proper account of thought, belief, and/or anything else consisting thereof, whether just in part or wholly.

Employing the subject/object dichotomy as a linguistic framework to take account of ourselves and 'the world' results in rendering stuff as one or the other. Not all things are one or the other. To quite the contrary, some things consist of both. Hence, I find that it is an inherently inadequate framework to begin with, ontological or otherwise.


Quoting schopenhauer1
2) Is it even wise to try to overlook the human aspect to all knowledge? Is this not only a fool's errand but somehow anti-human or is this just trying to take out a pernicious anthropomorphism that might lead to a more open field of exploration?


Anthropomorphism is to be avoided. What I mean is that it is a fatal mistake to attribute uniquely human capabilities to that which is not human.

Most Western philosophical tradition holds/held that all thought is uniquely human. It has been believed that it was our minds that separated us from the mere 'dumb' animals. Hence, the overwhelming majority of academia will still reject the very idea of non-human thought and/or belief, on pains of coherency alone. That's not entirely wrong, but it is wrong enough to have caused deep misunderstandings concerning thought and belief. It's also made it near impossible for current convention to arrive at a notion of thought and belief that is easily amenable to being explained in terms of evolutionary progression.

The aforementioned mistake was/is the account of human thought and belief. It's nowhere near refined enough, ontologically speaking, to be capable of adequately explaining the different degrees of complexity inherent to human thought and belief. Notably, some is prior to common language use, does not include language, and is not existentially dependent upon language in any way, shape, or form. Such thought and belief can equally be formed and/or 'held' by some language less creatures replete with the biological machinery required for doing so.

Those are the ones current convention and everyday people has/have trouble with. The result of the former is denial of language less thought. The result of the latter is often anthropomorphism.
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 22:40 #807582
Shaviro 282:For Harman, in contrast, all objects are ontologically equal, because they are all
equally withdrawn from one another. Harman posits a strange world of autonomous,
subterranean objects, ‘receding from all relations, always having an existence that perception or sheer causation can never adequately measure … a universe packed full of
elusive substances stuffed into mutually exclusive vacuums’.23 For Harman, there is a
fundamental gap between objects as they exist in and for themselves, and the external
relations into which these objects enter. ‘The basic dualism in the world lies not between spirit and nature, or phenomenon and noumenon, but between things in their
intimate reality and things as confronted by other things’.24 Every object retains a hidden reserve of being, one that is never exhausted by, and never fully expressed in, its
contacts with other objects. These objects can rightly be called substances, because
‘none of them can be identified with any (or even all) of their relations with other entities’. So defined, ‘substances are everywhere’.25 And in their deepest essence, substances are ‘withdrawn absolutely from all relation’.26


Harman posits a dualism of a hidden reality of the object and one of their relations with other entities. The hidden substance he identifies as "substances" as they are wholly unto themselves without sharing relations with other entities.

This seems pretty similar to Aristotle's substance, except that Aristotle didn't have an idea of a "hiddenness". He seemed pretty concerned with their "essence" which is something that I believe can be known, and thus not hidden. But if anyone else has ideas of how this ties to Aristotle, let me know.

The contrast between these positions should be clear. Whitehead opposes correlationism by proposing a much broader—indeed universally promiscuous—sense of relations among entities. But Harman opposes correlationism by deprivileging relations
in general. Instead, Harman remarkably revives the old and seemingly discredited
metaphysical doctrine of substances: a doctrine that Whitehead, for his part, unequivocally rejects. Where Whitehead denounces ‘the notion of vacuous actuality, which
haunts realistic philosophy’,27 Harman cheerfully embraces ‘the vacuous actuality of
things’.28 Whitehead refuses any philosophy in which ‘the universe is shivered into a
multitude of disconnected substantial things’, so that ‘each substantial thing is … conceived as complete it itself, without any reference to any other substantial thing’. Such
an approach, Whitehead says, ‘leaves out of account the interconnections of things’,
and thereby ‘renders an interconnected world of real individuals unintelligible’. The
bottom line for Whitehead is that ‘substantial thing cannot call unto substantial thing’.
There is no way to bridge the ontological void separating independent substances from
one another. An undetectable, unreachable inner essence might just as well not exist at
all: ‘a substantial thing can acquire a quality, a credit—but real landed estate, never’.29
The universe would be entirely sterile and static, and nothing would be able to affect
anything else, if entities were to be reduced to a ‘vacuous material existence with passive endurance, with primary individual attributes, and with accidental adventures’.30


In contrast to Harman, who proposes a "there" there for substances, Whitehead is 180 degrees the other way. There are no substances, but only interconnection of things.

Shaviro 282-283:Harman, for his part, makes just the opposite criticism. He explicitly disputes the
idea, championed by Whitehead (among so many others), that ‘everything is related to
everything else’. In the first place, Harman says, Whitehead’s ‘relational theory is too reminiscent of a house of mirrors’. When things are understood just in terms of their
relations, an entity is ‘nothing more than its perception of other entities. These entities, in turn, are made up of still other perceptions. [b]The hot potato is passed on down
the line, and we never reach any reality that would be able to anchor the various perceptions of it’[/b]. This infinite regress, Harman says, voids real things of their actuality. In
the second place, Harman argues that [b]‘no relational theory such as Whitehead’s is able
to give a sufficient explanation of change’[/b], because if a given entity ‘[b]holds nothing in
reserve beyond its current relations to all entities in the universe, if it has no currently
unexpressed properties, there is no reason to see how anything new can ever emerge’[/b].31
[b]Harman thus turns Whitehead’s central value of novelty against him, claiming that
Whitehead cannot really account for it. If ‘every actual entity is what it is, and is with
its definite status in the universe, determined by its internal relations to other actual
entities’,32 then we will be eternally stuck with nothing more than what we have already[/b].


Does Harman have valid points here? Relations can never really account for the things themselves. All is change, but no "thing" that is reserving these relations into "itself" (this is my way of putting it).

What about him turning Whitehead in on his own novelty and saying if all is novelty, there can be no change as there can be nothing that is being changed.
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 22:46 #807584
Quoting Wayfarer
Whereas modern philosophy has tended to 'flatten' ontology such that anything that exists, exists in the same way. This is why there are disputes over platonic realism in philosophy of maths. Numbers, and so on, don't exist in the same way as objects. So the tendency is to declare that they don't exist at all, save as mental constructs; things either exist, or they don't, in other words, existence is univocal, has only one meaning.


I like the use of "flatten[ed]" ontology. That is indeed what's going on here. Objects and their "relations". It's really the "relations" part that is tripping everything up. "How" can objects really "relate" on "their own" (without interpreters, without perspectives that we normally consider "minds"). But it could be conceived that roundness in humans is indeed "conceptual". Maybe roundness to an object is its manifestation of atomic valence atoms pushing against gravity in a way that roundness acts. This is the flat ontology view. Roundness is one relation the ball is having with the ground. It translates differently than human "roundness". Events then become (as I believe Harman will explain) "vicarious" events of causation between objects, where their "sensory" aspects are interacting, but not their hidden aspects.

This is also where Harman will disagree with Whitehead. Harman thinks the "hidden" aspect of an object is the essential part that makes that object have some sort of "reserve" that is actualized as opposed to Whitehead where "everything is relation" all the way down.
schopenhauer1 May 12, 2023 at 23:08 #807588
Quoting creativesoul
Employing the subject/object dichotomy as a linguistic framework to take account of ourselves and 'the world' results in rendering stuff as one or the other. Not all things are one or the other. To quite the contrary, some things consist of both. Hence, I find that it is an inherently inadequate framework to begin with, ontological or otherwise.


Indeed I think SR would also do away with this distinction as a way of how the world relates. Object-object or relation-relation, perhaps.

Quoting creativesoul
Those are the ones current convention and everyday people has/have trouble with. The result of the former is denial of language less thought. The result of the latter is often anthropomorphism.


Ok, but you are kind of discussing epistemology. We are at metaphysics. That is to say, can objects exist independently and relate to each other without minds? If so, how do objects then relate? Harman says there is a hiddenness that makes the object itself, and that it only has some sort of vicarious causation with other objects. Whitehead says that it is all relations. There is no "hiddenness" or reserve of some substance that makes it itself but all relations prehending other relations.
creativesoul May 12, 2023 at 23:12 #807591
Reply to schopenhauer1

Afraid I won't be of much help.
RussellA May 13, 2023 at 08:15 #807653
Quoting schopenhauer1
Can you explain that more about why it cannot be the Real Object?


A round object is circular, where the boundary of a circle is the same distance from a centre. For a round object, the distance of the boundary from the centre is the same, not similar, otherwise an ellipse, or a square, or a triangle would be a circle.

Plenty of shapes have been observed in the real world that are approximately round, where the distance of the boundary from the centre is similar, but "similar" does not mean "same". 10 metres is not the same as 1 metre, 1 metre is not the same as 1mm, 1mm is not the same as 1 micron and 1 micron is not the same as the planck length.

A round object can exist as a concept in the mind, but no one has observed a shape in the real world where the distance of the boundary from the centre is the same, meaning known to be the same down to the planck length.

There is a clear distinction between round as a concept in the mind and round as existing in the real world.

If I talk about a round object, for my talk to make logical and coherent sense, I must be talking about something that exists. As the concept of a round object certainly exists in the mind, but a round object is highly unlikely to exist in the real world, I must be referring to the concept in my mind, not an impossible object in the real world.
Wayfarer May 13, 2023 at 11:57 #807662
In Phaedo 72b-e, Socrates has Simmias agree that there is such a thing as Equality itself--something that is independent of any particular case of equality such as sticks or stones of equal length or size. We know this Form of Equality, because it comes into our minds every time we see instances of equal objects. However, Socrates points out, equal stones or equal sticks may look equal from one point of view and unequal from another. Nonetheless, we would never be tempted to suggest that Equality itself is unequal. Therefore, the sticks or stones that are equal cannot be the same thing as Equality, since they can sometimes be unequal, and Equality itself never can be. If the equal things are different from Equality and yet can bring Equality into our minds, they must somehow remind us of the Form of Equality. We are aware that the sticks or stones fall short of being perfectly equal, but to be aware that they fall short, we must already have an idea of what it means to be perfectly equal; that is, we must already know the Form of Equality.

Metaphysician Undercover May 13, 2023 at 12:02 #807663
Reply to schopenhauer1

Shaviro 282:For Harman, there is a
fundamental gap between objects as they exist in and for themselves, and the external
relations into which these objects enter.


The important concept here, which is often overlooked, is the "gap". In order to understand objects as individuals, or to understand activities which involve relations, there is a need to assume a gap of separation, and this might be a boundary, or void space, or some such thing. You can refer to Kant's description of pure intuitions here, as the basis for this understanding. Notice that a distinction can be made between the pure intuition of the external (space for Kant), and the pure intuition of the internal (time for Kant).

If the gap is assumed to be spatial, we have external objects to work with, but if the gap is assumed to be temporal, we have internal conceptions, changing relations and associations, interactions and causation to deal with. Whether a person chooses one or the other, as the basis of one's ontology, depends on whether the person is looking outward (Kant's external intuition), or looking inward (Kant's internal intuition). So Harman, as you describe, looking outward, apprehends external, spatial relations, and Whitehead looking inward, apprehends internal, temporal relations.

There is a way to reconcile these two perspectives, and that is to see the person, the individual self, as the gap, or boundary which separates the internal from the external. In a way it is simplistic, as it plunges you back toward the basic Platonic dualism of the internal mind and the external body. But under the modern day terms provided by Kant, the separation, or gap, may be understood as a separation between space and time, where space is external and time is internal, and the gap (being the self) separates these two.
Paine May 13, 2023 at 18:12 #807719
Quoting schopenhauer1
This seems pretty similar to Aristotle's substance, except that Aristotle didn't have an idea of a "hiddenness". He seemed pretty concerned with their "essence" which is something that I believe can be known, and thus not hidden. But if anyone else has ideas of how this ties to Aristotle, let me know.


We encounter the 'essences' each time we come upon a particular being. But there is a tension between this condition and the 'universals' needed to inquire into causes:

Aristotle. Metaphysics, 1038b15, translated by CDC Reeve:But perhaps the universal, while it cannot be substance in the way in which the essence is, can yet be present in it—for example, as the animal is present in the human and the horse. Well then, clearly there is some account of it. And it makes no difference even if it is not the account of everything in the substance. For this [universal] will not be any the less the substance of something, as the human is of the human in whom it is present. And so the same result will again follow, since it (for example, the animal) will be the substance of that in which it is present as something special to it. Further, it is both impossible and absurd for the this (that is, the substance)—if it is composed of something—not to be composed of substances or of the this something but of a quality. For then non-substance (that is, the quality) will be prior to substance (that is, to the this). Which is just what is impossible. For neither in account nor in time nor in knowledge can the attributes be prior to the substance. For then they will also be separable.


From this perspective, the 'essence' is hiding in plain sight.
schopenhauer1 May 13, 2023 at 19:33 #807726
Quoting Paine
From this perspective, the 'essence' is hiding in plain sight.


Well, it looks like Aristotle is railing against his mentor Plato here when he says that non-substance (qualities/attributes) can't be prior to its substance (the instance of the thing). He seems to be describing Plato's ideas that Forms are first and instances come from them. He's also just saying that the universal is contained in similarities of the same substances found in each instantiation. This is his main difference with Plato's notion of universals as some sort of esoteric Form (template) outside the substances themselves.

I don't see anything either way here. Aristotle's essences would be ones where we could determine by human standards of induction the essential form of a substance that determines what that substance is. He does not seem to hold the notion that there are some attributes which are hidden or withdrawn as far as I've seen. It's more of a corollary to Aristotle, not really fixing anything.
schopenhauer1 May 13, 2023 at 19:36 #807728
Quoting RussellA
If I talk about a round object, for my talk to make logical and coherent sense, I must be talking about something that exists. As the concept of a round object certainly exists in the mind, but a round object is highly unlikely to exist in the real world, I must be referring to the concept in my mind, not an impossible object in the real world.


Oh gotcha gotcha. Yeah that's fine and all, but is this contra Harman here? In other words, I can take this to mean that you think there is a Platonic element of perfect Forms, or in Kantian speak, "A priori Synthetic truths" missing from all of this metaphysically? If no human mind existed. If no animal mind existed, could objects have localized "vicarious" interactions that do not need a cognitive stage?
schopenhauer1 May 13, 2023 at 19:39 #807729
Quoting Wayfarer
If the equal things are different from Equality and yet can bring Equality into our minds, they must somehow remind us of the Form of Equality. We are aware that the sticks or stones fall short of being perfectly equal, but to be aware that they fall short, we must already have an idea of what it means to be perfectly equal; that is, we must already know the Form of Equality.


Do Forms (in the Platonic sense) matter for objects to relate to each other? Certainly, I can see it in the Aristotlian sense. Attributes that can be shared between substances can be known by them.

I just realized that attributes may be equivalent to Harman's "vicarious causation". The attributes of the substance is hidden except for the ones that interact with other substances. So for Harman attributes can never fully exhaust the fully essential characteristics of a substance (or object).
schopenhauer1 May 13, 2023 at 19:40 #807730
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Whether a person chooses one or the other, as the basis of one's ontology, depends on whether the person is looking outward (Kant's external intuition), or looking inward (Kant's internal intuition). So Harman, as you describe, looking outward, apprehends external, spatial relations, and Whitehead looking inward, apprehends internal, temporal relations.


Is internal intuition a false category when applied to objects that aren't animals?
schopenhauer1 May 13, 2023 at 20:06 #807733
Shaviro 283-285:In this standoff between Whitehead and Harman, or between the idea of relations
and the idea of substances, we would seem to have arrived at a basic antinomy of object-oriented thought. Whitehead and Harman, in their opposing ways, both speak to
our basic intuitions about the world. Harman addresses our sense of the thingness of
things: their solidity, their uniqueness, and their thereness. He insists, rightly, that every object is something, in and of itself; and therefore that an object is not reducible to
its parts, or to its relations with other things, or to the sum of the ways in which other entities apprehend it. But Whitehead addresses an equally valid intuition: our sense
that we are not alone in the world, that things matter to us and to one another, that
life is filled with encounters and adventures. There’s a deep sense in which I remain
the same person, no matter what happens to me. But there’s an equally deep sense in
which I am changed irrevocably by my experiences, by ‘the historic route of living occasions’33 through which I pass. And this double intuition goes for all the entities in the
universe: it applies to ‘shale or cantaloupe’34 and to ‘rocks and milkweed’35, as much as
it does to sentient human subjects. Where does this leave us? As Whitehead suggests,
we should always reflect that a metaphysical doctrine, even one that we reject, ‘would
never have held the belief of great men, unless it expressed some fundamental aspect of
our experience’.36 I would like to see this double intuition, therefore, as a ‘contrast’ that
can be organized into a pattern, rather than as an irreducible ‘incompatibility’.37 Whitehead insists that the highest task of philosophy is to resolve antinomies non-reductively,
by operating ‘a shift of meaning which converts the opposition into a contrast’.38

Harman himself opens the way, in part, for such a shift of meaning, insofar as he
focuses on the atomistic, or discrete, side of Whitehead’s ontology. Whitehead always
insists that ‘the ultimate metaphysical truth is atomism. The creatures are atomic’.39
And Harman takes the atomicity of Whitehead’s entities as a guarantee of their concrete actuality: ‘Consider the case of ten thousand different entities, each with a different perspective on the same volcano. Whitehead is not one of those arch-nominalists
who assert that there is no underlying volcano but only external family resemblances
among the ten thousand different perceptions. [b]No, for Whitehead there is definitely an
actual entity ‘volcano’, a real force to be reckoned with and not just a number of similar sensations linked by an arbitrary name[/b]’.40[b]For Harman, this is what sets Whitehead
apart from the post-Kantian correlationists for whom we cannot speak of the actuality
of the volcano itself, but only of the problem of access to the volcano, or of the way in
which it is ‘constructed’ by and through our apprehension and identification of it.[/b] But
at the same time, Harman also sets Whitehead’s atomism against the way in which, for
the speculative realist philosopher Iain Hamilton Grant, objects as such do not really
exist, but only ‘emerge as ‘retardations’ of a more primally unified force’.41 For Grant,
as presumably for Schelling, Deleuze, and Simondon before him, there would be no
actual volcano, but only its violent, upsurging action, or its ‘force to be reckoned with’.

The point is that, even as Whitehead’s actualism links him to Harman, so his insistence on process and becoming—which is to say, on relations—links him to Deleuze
and to Grant. Whitehead refers to the ‘“really real” things’ that ‘constitute the universe’
both as ‘actual entities’ and as ‘actual occasions’. They are alternatively things or happenings. These two modes of being are different, and yet they can be identified with
one another, in much the same way that ‘matter has been identified with energy’ in
modern physics.42 (I am tempted to add a reference to the way that the quantum constituents of the universe behave alternatively as particles and as waves; but it is unclear
to me how familiar Whitehead was with developments in quantum mechanics in the
1920s and 1930s).[b]When Harman rejects Whitehead’s claims about relations, he is not
being sufficiently attentive to the dual-aspect nature of Whitehead’s ontology[/b].

This can also be expressed in another way. Harman skips over the dimension of
privacy in Whitehead’s account of objects. For Whitehead, ‘in the analysis of actuality
the antithesis between publicity and privacy obtrudes itself at every stage. There are
elements only to be understood by reference to what is beyond the fact in question;
and there are elements expressive of the immediate, private, personal, individuality of
the fact in question. The former elements express the publicity of the world; the latter
elements express the privacy of the individual’.43 Most importantly, Whitehead defines
concrescence, or the culminating ‘satisfaction’ of every actual entity, precisely as ‘a unity of aesthetic appreciation’ that is ‘immediately felt as private’.44 In this way, Whitehead is indeed sensitive to the hidden inner life of things that so preoccupies Harman.
Privacy can never be abolished; the singularity of aesthetic self-enjoyment can never
be dragged out, into the light.

But privacy is only one half of the story. The volcano has hidden depths, but it also
explodes. It enters into the glare of publicity as it spends itself. Whitehead recognizes
that, in the privacy of their self-enjoyment, ‘actual entities … do not change. They are
what they are’.45 But he also has a sense of the cosmic irony of transition and transience;
and this is something that I do not find in Harman. Whitehead insists that every entity must perish—and thereby give way to something new. Throughout Process and Reality, Whitehead keeps on reminding us that ‘time is a “perpetual perishing”’. For ‘objectification involves elimination. The present fact has not the past fact with it in any full
immediacy’.46 In this way, Whitehead entirely agrees with Harman that no entity can
prehend another entity in its fullness. There is always something that doesn’t get carried
over, something that doesn’t get translated or expressed. But the reason for this is not
that the other entity somehow subsists, beyond relation, locked into its vacuum bubble.
Rather, no entity can be recalled to full presence because, by the very fact of its ‘publicity’ or ‘objectification’, it does not subsist at all; indeed, it is already dead. The volcano explodes; and other entities are left to pick up the pieces. This reduction to the status of a
mere ‘datum’ is what Whitehead calls, with his peculiar humour, ‘objective immortality’.


This is where it really goes deep. If anyone wants to add their interpretation of what is going on here between the dichotomy of Harman and Whitehead, please be my guest!

My interpretation is that Shaviro is saying that Harman's criticism of Whitehead is overlooking aspects of Whitehead that actually make it similar. Whitehead believed in this oddly phrased, "a unity of aesthetic appreciation" that can be immediately felt as private. This confuses me, but I get a sense it is some sort of experience of the object experiencing as an actuality in time? And this accounts for some sort of actuality that is in the equation that Harman is missing. It is not all novelty and change, but occasions of apprehension as well. Is there anything else people find interesting here? There's a lot to unpack it looks like.

Another thing I found interesting was that it says that Whitehead wasn't a complete nominalist. And it wasn't a problem of access for Whitehead. He thought there were actual entities that comprised the volcano, from various thousands of actual occasions. I'm guessing the process of "concrescence" in Whitehead is what makes it a volcano versus just atoms (or individual occasions) doing stuff.

@Metaphysician Undercover @Wayfarer
Paine May 14, 2023 at 00:01 #807760
Quoting schopenhauer1
Aristotle's essences would be ones where we could determine by human standards of induction the essential form of a substance that determines what that substance is. He does not seem to hold the notion that there are some attributes which are hidden or withdrawn as far as I've seen.


Yes, the passage is an objection to Plato's version of Forms. I read it also to say there is a great distance between our grouping by kinds and whatever activity is producing these different beings.

My approval of Grant given earlier in the thread is that he puts the Aristotelian argument that there can be no science of accidents in a particular light. Accidents are obviously the source of actual outcomes, but we do not have a science for it. Is that a problem of overwhelming complexity or the order of the universe coming to some kind of limit?

I am not sure how this lines up with the argument between Harmon and Whitehead but is my attempt to answer what seemed closest to your request for an analogue in the text of Aristotle.
Metaphysician Undercover May 14, 2023 at 01:14 #807774
Quoting schopenhauer1
Is internal intuition a false category when applied to objects that aren't animals?


Intuition is a feature of the subject, and I think it is the basis for one's ontology.

Quoting Paine
Accidents are obviously the source of actual outcomes, but we do not have a science for it.


Isn't statistics and probability the science of accidents? Or would you say that this does not qualify as "science"?
Paine May 14, 2023 at 01:24 #807777
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover
Those techniques may speak to the Aristotelian register of 'things happening for the most part' but does not treat them as a particular being which is treated as primary to all other qualifications.
Metaphysician Undercover May 14, 2023 at 01:27 #807778
Reply to Paine
Are you saying that happenings are not beings, and science only treats of beings?
schopenhauer1 May 14, 2023 at 01:34 #807780
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Are you saying that happenings are not beings, and science only treats of beings?


Reply to Paine

That quote ironically is mimicking the very dichotomy that Shaviro lays out between Harman and Whitehead :grin:.
Paine May 14, 2023 at 01:35 #807781
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover
I was trying to say how I thought Aristotle framed the questions. i don't want to hijack the thread to address your more general question on that basis. I will ponder how to address it in the context of the OP.
schopenhauer1 May 14, 2023 at 01:35 #807782
So what is Whitehead's "a unity of aesthetic appreciation" that can be immediately felt as private"?