Literary Activity July-Aug 2023 Discussion
Hi all,
We're back. And this time you get to submit stories and poems :party: . For those who aren't familar with all this, we run a (roughly) biannual creative activity where members can submit literary works to be read and commented upon by other members. Though this all started out as a competition and we retain a polling element that indicates which pieces are most liked, the emphasis now is on participation and sharing.
We do need some rules though, which are as follows:
1) Short stories to be PMed to either @Noble Dust or @hypericin
2) Poems to be PMed to @Caldwell
3) Max one short story and one poem per member.
4) Min 500 / max 3750 words for short stories (no exceptions). We do not have official min word limits for the poems but we reserve the right to reject anything that looks like an unserious or otherwise inappropriate attempt, and the max word limit is 1000.
5) No pornography, trolling, or other obviously disruptive content.
6) Submissions are to be anonymous. Please don't advertise what you've written prior to voting.
7) Entries must not be previously available online.
8) Entries will be posted as discussion OPs and may be commented upon.
9) Comments should focus on stories, not authors, and may be moderated.
10) There will be an opportunity to register your opinion of the works via poll (method provided by @180 Proof).
Tentative deadline for submissions is 31st of July.
DEADLINE EXTENDED UNTIL MIDNIGHT UTC AUG 5TH.
(All entries will be posted at the same time after the deadline expires).
Tell me in the discussion if I forgot anything or post any other questions or comments you have.
Enjoy!
STORIES HAVE NOW BEEN POSTED. COMMENTS AND POLLING ARE OPEN.
POLLING CLOSING DATE IS 20th AUG 1800 UTC.
POLLS ARE NOW CLOSED!
Results of voting will be annouced soon. Please feel free to guess who the authors are in the meantime.
Direct links to categories here:
Poetry
Short Stories
The Tourist by @hypericin and this little boy by @180 Proof are our poll winners.
Big congrats! And to everyone who participated, thank you!
Unpinning this discussion now but it will remain open as will the stories and poems.
We're back. And this time you get to submit stories and poems :party: . For those who aren't familar with all this, we run a (roughly) biannual creative activity where members can submit literary works to be read and commented upon by other members. Though this all started out as a competition and we retain a polling element that indicates which pieces are most liked, the emphasis now is on participation and sharing.
We do need some rules though, which are as follows:
1) Short stories to be PMed to either @Noble Dust or @hypericin
2) Poems to be PMed to @Caldwell
3) Max one short story and one poem per member.
4) Min 500 / max 3750 words for short stories (no exceptions). We do not have official min word limits for the poems but we reserve the right to reject anything that looks like an unserious or otherwise inappropriate attempt, and the max word limit is 1000.
5) No pornography, trolling, or other obviously disruptive content.
6) Submissions are to be anonymous. Please don't advertise what you've written prior to voting.
7) Entries must not be previously available online.
8) Entries will be posted as discussion OPs and may be commented upon.
9) Comments should focus on stories, not authors, and may be moderated.
10) There will be an opportunity to register your opinion of the works via poll (method provided by @180 Proof).
Tentative deadline for submissions is 31st of July.
DEADLINE EXTENDED UNTIL MIDNIGHT UTC AUG 5TH.
(All entries will be posted at the same time after the deadline expires).
Tell me in the discussion if I forgot anything or post any other questions or comments you have.
Enjoy!
STORIES HAVE NOW BEEN POSTED. COMMENTS AND POLLING ARE OPEN.
POLLING CLOSING DATE IS 20th AUG 1800 UTC.
POLLS ARE NOW CLOSED!
Results of voting will be annouced soon. Please feel free to guess who the authors are in the meantime.
Direct links to categories here:
Poetry
Short Stories
The Tourist by @hypericin and this little boy by @180 Proof are our poll winners.
Big congrats! And to everyone who participated, thank you!
Unpinning this discussion now but it will remain open as will the stories and poems.
Comments (786)
If you don't submit a story, you can submit a poem.
(Baden, your definition allowed for zero set submissions. While that amounts to no submissions, anyone can boast that they participated in the Literary activity with submissions. If they are cornered, they can say, "I submitted zero submissions, but it still counts as having submitted, as per the rules [if your wording were binding, Baden.])
:gasp:
Basically, all the losers get flayed alive for the arrogance of competing with divinity.
Fine. No flaying.
:grin:
For instance,
"Peter is alive and Peter is dead" will return a false value.
"(Peter is alive and Peter is dead) or (fifty cents equals half a dollar)" is true.
So how Baden worded it, one can submit seventeen short stories and 1 poem, and that would be a valid submission. According to the wording.
This is the nature of basic logic structures. I would not have raised it in a literary site, but this is a philosophy site, and therefore we should behave like philosophers: arrogant, haughty, and precise in our definitions. :-)
I did not. You didn't understand the point of my post. There's an ongoing group discussion in the private conversation.
You can't believe it how much this revelation angers me. Discrimination by exclusion of the majority. Incredible. Elitism. "I am better than thou."
This is the bottom of the pit.
Yes, yes, I know. The usual and customary reply by a clique member is, "Why can't I have developed special friendships in this club?" Sure you can. That's healthy. But to let everyone else know that they are NOT your special friends, is not nice. I know your intention is not to express that. However, the end result is that.
Okay, have your little club within the club. I mean, I am having a difficult time with the concept why you have to rub our noses into it, and why you post words that are meaningful only to the clique members on the public boards, instead of the private board that you mentioned you have (an ongoing group discussion in the private conversation), but you can have your club.
It's not a permission I am giving -- who am I to do that? I am not an influencer of your behaviour, nor do I have a superior position to dictate or allow you things and not allow you things -- it is rather my way of saying I am annoyed.
Simpler than last time, the gist's the same ...
No objections so far (be a mensch, gmba, and don't pee in the pool). :smirk:
It's just a private conversation to organize this activity; it's not just Baden doing it anymore, so a group PM thread is necessary.
Just 'and', surely? 'No more than one' allows for none or one of each already.
I'm glad to see one does not have to be the author of one's submissions though and they can be published in paper form. I'm considering something by Salinger...
One story and one poem
One story and/or one poem
One story or one poem
One story only
One poem only
No stories and no poems
No stories or no poems
No stories only
No poems only
Neither no poems nor no stories
Both one poem and one story
Neither and/or both one poem and one story
Neither and/or both only one story and only one poem and/or both neither no stories nor no poems and/or either one story or one poem.
Seventeen stories and one poem
Anything by J.D. Salinger.
I'm in.
:up:
Dang it!
Are haiku or zappai poems allowed? or this contest only focuses in Western poetic style?
Regards, :smile:
Is this your submittal? I will definitely vote for it.
I have 500 stories and each one is only one word. Can I get grandfathered in?
Thanks. My little poem. It's called "Logic Shmlogic".
Quoting frank
No idea. Who's in charge here?
Hi Javi. The category is poetry so, yes, that includes haiku or zappai. Here's a list of possible entries:
Sonnets
Haikus
Limericks
Ballads
Odes
Free-Verse
Narrative Poetry
:grin:
Quoting Hanover
Not a chipmunk voice? How disappointing.
My voice is so deep that it is inaudible, other than to elephants and whales. I have to speak in falsetto so as to not to be anonymous.
True story.
Excellent! :up:
Thank you for answering my question.
Don't be ridiculous but good idea. Next time, music, audio poetry, and mime. The latter would be especially easy to anonymise when submitted in audio format.
If you have no citation for this, I'll have to just disregard it.
Mutual exclusion,
Looks for other words.
Ginko leaves mat the wet ground.
Woodpeckers interrupt thought.
Jack and Jill preferred buckets.
How should these be filled?
The form dances with nature.
Uncertain of the future.
Yes, true. English haiku it is.
Quoting Baden
:up:
Yes, those are good examples. Thank you.
Sometimes (? always!) my emotions make me act or speak or write before my intellect has a chance to stop it.
But I said enough. Or too much. Because it's not always about me.
Benkei,
Haiku has not to rhyme in the verses. The main objective of each haiku is to show the astonishment of the poet when he is observing the nature. With more simplicity, better the haiku. The classic rule of 5/7/5 is still present, but there is not a problem if you make a haiku with around 18 or 22 syllables.
You are right that whenever we translate them into our languages from Japanese, we could lose the "sense" and "soul" of the poem. Yet, it is not impossible to reach amazement in Western languages if we are lucky to have skilled translators. For example:
Japanese: Koi koi to iedo hotaru ga tonde yuku - Onitsura
English: [b]come here! come here!
I cry, but the fireflies
just fly away[/b]
Spanish:[b]Ven, ven, le dije,
pero la luciérnaga
se fue volando[/b]
A beautiful haiku, right? I guess we all exprencied the amaze of the poet after reading it, which is the main objective. :smile:
You're fluent in Japanese?
Quoting Benkei
Interesting.
I partially agree with you, yet we both should have a big level in Japanese to write them.
It is not a big issue if you write haikus in other languages. For example: International Kusamakura Haiku Competition allows haikus written in Japanese, Spanish, English and Chinese, and I guess those are not "pointless" despite the fact that, yes, it doesn't reach the same perfection when they are written in Japanese.
I wrote a Haiku
But I don't speak Japanese
It was just a fart
Technically speaking, you don't need to SPEAK Japanese to WRITE a Japanese haiku.
Technically speaking, I should have written "Technically writing", instead of "Techincally speaking."
Technically speaking... (infinite regret.)
Quoting Hanover
Quoting Benkei
:sweat: I'm laughing at this. Benk, you missed a beat. haha.
I am aware that you are the Buffon of TPF and one of the coolest members of this site, but I am going to tell you something: you are not funny.
Maybe in your American-biased mind it is funny to disrespect a haiku poem and I guess you consider as "culture" a Hollywood film or "leave it to the Beavers", but the world goes beyond than the USA (fortunately!)
So, instead of disrespecting a thousand years old culture go and do American things like bombing Asian countries or shooting schools up.
Relax.
Rustling leafs dance in
disorderly whispers,
my disquiet grows.
.
Upon further review, I believe my piece might better be described as senry? than haiku, a bit more cutting edge than perhaps my dear readers were prepared for.
Japanese haiku
Works as English poetry
Though not native. Cheers!
Hmm, that was a [s]snooty[/s] snotty post.
Mister Benkei squawks;
He baulks at our haiku talk!
It soils pristine woks.
He thinks it takes low
IQ to like our haiku;
Tempests in tea cups.
The plural of leaf is leaves and is still 1 syllable.
Ik heb een haiku geschreven
Maar ik spreek geen Japans
Het was maar een scheet
?????
???
Kaori no ki
Koada no ueni
Tori utau
A fragrant tree
Upon its branches
Birds sing
___________
If anyone speaks Japanese, do the particles in my haiku make it seem amateur. They are in there as syllable filler.
[i]The old pond
A frog leaps in.
Sound of the water.[/i]
The poem answers the three questions: where, when, and what.
Quoting Nils Loc
So, the two poems above are both happening in the spring (and of course we know the where and the what)
Fantastic and beautiful haiku. Glad to see that someone around here respects this art. It is true that "birds sing" can be related to spring vibes, but it can be a summer haiku depending in the amazement of the haijin.
Quoting Nils Loc
??????: Kaori takai no ki. I guess you skipped kaori takai (fragant) just to fill the syllables. But do not worry that much about this rule. Since Masoaka Shiki haikus with 18 or even 22 syllables are allowed.
??????: Koeda no ue ni. This is well written.
"~ ?" and "? ~" are prepositional locutions.
"? ~" (ri) is used when you are referring to an exact place (branches in your haiku).
???: [s]Tori utau[/s]. Sorry, but this is not well translated or used. You are referring to the birds "sing" not the birds's song.
So, the correct conjugation would be: ?? ??? ?? (Tori utau koto). The last is necessary to express action or acts (sing) in Japanese. If you skip it, it seems that you are referring to a tone rather than the verb.
Oops. Sorry, Benk. I forgot to include in my message to you that all entries will be posted at the same time at the end of July.
Quoting javi2541997
I find that fragrant trees happen in the spring and tall grasses happen in the summer.
Nils Loc's poem is beautiful.
Thanks for feed back. I could be referring to birds song if it could work that way. Can you speak a little bit more about referring to tone rather than action.
???? a man cries versus ?????? a man is crying
???? a bird sings versus ?? ??? ?? a bird is singing
Did leaving out the particle ? make the last line awkward/unclear or would it work then?
Exactly. What I always find a summer vibe is the thunderous song of cicadas. :lol:
Quoting Nils Loc
When you used "tori utau" in your haiku, it seemed that you were referring to the tone of the birds and not the act of "singing", the conjugation goes as follow and maybe you understand it better:
???? (birds's song) infinitive.
?????? (birds sing) present.
????? (birds sang) past.
?? ??? ?? (birds sing) sustantive.
Quoting Nils Loc
It sounds awkward depending on the context (keep in mind that this fact is one of the main aspects in Japanese). All verbs ends up in "u" ("?"???"?"etc...) but you need to use some particles to to clarify the forms and tenses.
Quoting Nils Loc
The particle "?" is used as intransitive verb. There is not direct complement and it fulfills the function of a noun and "?" is added as a suffix.
For example: ??? ??? (neko ga imasu = there is a cat).
You cannot leave "?" because the particle refers to the man in your example. ?? (otoko ga...)
So the conjugation would be: ? (noun) + ???? (verb
I don't think insight is a necessity for haikus. Take these two examples.
Quoting Nils Loc
a frog caught in the filter
a pool of frog tea
True story.
?????
??????
??????
???????
??????
Kudamono-shu
Mizu de usumeta
Asameshi mae
Fruit-infused wine
Diluted with water's touch
Before breakfast (literally "before breakfast", idiomatically comparable to "piece of cake").
Yes, true. Deafening at times.
And an angel's kiss in spring
my sweet summer wine
(Nancy made me do it)
That said, I'll lazily post a haiku I wrote during the pandemic:
Plastic bag pigeons
Billow slowly overhead
The soft city groans
I walk on barefoot
I arrive in the town square.
Eh? I am, see, scared.
Now, this Haiku has both insight and lightness of being. In fact, some physics history experts claim that this 800-year old haiku gave Albert Einstein the impetus to create his by now world-famous equation.
Is creative writing not a fun, relaxing activity on holiday?
As it should be. Enjoy.
Ah, good plan. Have fun, we'll miss your entry.
But now I see there
beyond the sleeping town square
An equation, bare
:cool:
Can tick be corrected? ?
Is toc in opposition?
Tick me or toc to me, time moves on.
Yikes. Time to get to work
Perhaps, we need an exlixir to enable us to speed into the conventions of 'fast' linear time and deadlines! I hope to submit on time and, best wishes to everyone else struggling with monsters which break down the perimeters of time, as known to humans. It may get into going beyond time but returning within the boundaries of clock time in philosophical journeying into unknown dimensions.
It it's just me struggling to meet the deadlines, I may just have to delay replying to the couple of threads which I have started until I submit a story. So, I apologise to anyone who has written on these, and will try to look at them after a story submission, which can be a light interlude from all the heavy thinking of philosophy.
I have written and submitted a story, for better or worse, but I can definitely empathise with 'every word is a struggle'. The blank page can be so daunting. I also wonder about the positives and negatives of deadlines. It can conjure up fear and stress, having strict deadlines, but it may also be about perfectionism and its nagging voice.
Sometimes, deadlines can be about summoning action as opposed to procrastination. Of course, taking risks may involve experimentation and, I am sure that my own attempts may show up my own weaknesses in writing. Nevertheless, the tension between the stress of deadlines and coming up with one's best is a fine one. But, of course, I am not opposed to extensions because writers' block may be the enduring curse against creative expression and its spontaneity.
Yes. My muse is still ghosting me not a single word yet. :sad:
Can fermented spirits help? :snicker:
Good.
there is something out there, trying to get in.
Yes, 12 midnight UTC Aug 5th.
Why the ''Not for me'' option?
I thought that had been discussed. Last time, only first 2 were offered.
From @180 Proof to @Caldwell
I agree. People who vote "Not for me" - should give reasons. Constructive feedback.
Actually, good and fun feedback counts for so much more for every option!
***
If there really must be 3 (why?) Consider:
1. I enjoyed it
2. I liked it
3. It's OK
I agree with your opinion, Amity :up:
Regarding the original deadline. It only gave 2 weeks notice for anyone wishing to write and submit a story. And this is during high holiday season. A real shame if @Benkei and others can't submit or submit before they are quite finished @Jack Cummins.
At least 4 of the regulars whose stories are always enjoyable have now voiced their problems.
I don't know for sure but I think that extensions have always been necessary. Even when the regulars were half expecting and anticipating the 'Grand Announcement'!
If 2 weeks are too short and 3 too long, then... :chin:
You might have considered giving a bit of an early warning to all. For example, in the Shoutbox. The team must have been discussing it, even as people wondered...
Quoting Baden
Again, I thought it was June and December that were considered a good balance...
I know there were difficulties pinning it down. But now that you have a veritable team in place... :cool:
Things were different this time because of the potential Chomsky event. And we have granted an extension. The polling I'll leave to @180 Proof.
Understood. And so sorry to hear about Chomsky's ill health.
Great that TPF is offering so many 'Events'.
Guest Speakers haven't come along every year, and all have different formats. Challenging and exciting.
Quoting Baden
Noted. Hope @Benkei and others make it - or can re-submit after any required editing :pray:
Quoting Baden
Not a Team discussion, then. OK :up:
At this late stage a group negotiation involving 180, you and the rest of the team on polling seems impractical compared to letting him listen and respond to your concerns himself.
:smile:
There's until next Friday 5th before deadline. Is the poll already set-up in the thread structure?
It wouldn't take much of a 'discussion' for the team which includes 180.
PMs are quick and easy, no?
From previous forum discussions, I doubt I am the only one with questions re the polling.
Apparently, just the only one noticing the discrepancy and mentioning it.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
Peace :sparkle:
Well, lets at least give him a chance to respond. If there is more concern about it, I'm sure there will be further queries here, and we can take it from there.
To @180 Proof and others - May The Muse Be With You :flower: :victory: :cool:
Muse - Psycho [Official Lyric Video]
I agree, more nuanced thanks for that. :cool:
Thanks to you too. For being so agreeable :flower: :cool:
Reminds me of three things: "No matter how you slice it, it's still baloney." Meaning if you make a statement kinder to say "it's disagreeable", then that statement will become offensive, no matter how kindly you've worded it. You can ask Yom Chompski to verify this view.
The other thing that it reminds me of is the desperate struggle of making devaluing qualities to become acceptable. In one are of life, it involved changing the devaluing adjective from "imbecile" to "retarded" to "disadvantage" to "challenged" to "whatever." There were more stages to this, even in my own lifetime, but I can't think of them all.
The problem is that we try to use language to alter socially pervasive opinions. It's a problem, only because it does not work. It never occurred to the policy-makers to make undesirable qualities leave as undesirable, but make people realize that 1. the issue is not simple therefore people muse 2. their heads to 3. exercise empathy via understanding, and not immediately exercise 4. hatred.
This process has not been pushed too hard. "Yes, I now Frankovich Etkent is retarded, but it's not his fault, and therefore we ask you to not bully him." Is easier to process and makes more sense, than "Do NOT call Frankovich Etkent a retard. He is an individual with challenged intelligence.
The third thing it reminds me of is the incredibly powerful proof this name-changing does not work to make people forget they are dealing with mutants or the sick. The third thing is that in kindergarten (!!) where name-calling is rampant and spreads like wild-fire, the new, socially acceptable word for retard and its family of devaluating words, will IMMEDIATELY on the day it's introduction become a word of mockery in kindergartens all o'er the land. An exclamation by a toddler, "You retard!! " will be met and destroyed by the response, "You developmentally challenged indivudal!!" uttered by the peer.
Language is a many-splendored thing. You can twist it, turn it, and yet it will find its place in speech and in thought the way culture dictates it, and not the way the powers-that-be intend it will bend culture.
--------------
Sorry. I apologize for not making the above shorter. I like to hear my own keystrokes typing.
--------------
A fourth thing this affair of making the individual wordings of polls, reflecting opinion, kinder, vis-a-vis my argument against it (but agreeing with it because it just simply does not matter what you name poll items): Albert Einstein has been attributed to say, "Stupidity is when you try and try without any changes to it a process that you want to bring a desired effect, but it consistently never does." Or words to that effect.
Oh, please forgive me. I had better rephrase that. "Meekness, or weakness of the mind, manifests when you try and try without any changes to it a process that you want to bring a desired effect, but it consistently never does."
When all is said and done, the poll is a piece of froth.
It's a way to keep the natural sense of competition alive and well and fun, for some.
That's it. 1, 2, 3. And breathe :cool:
Probably overthinking this.
To me it does not matter how the third option is worded. It is the third option, and as such, it can't be positive. That's enough to know for everyone. What I was trying to say is that you can call it "very nice, but not up to par" all the way down to "piece of you-know-what", it will still stay the third option, which, by its position and inherent meaning, is a bad one.
All I was saying you can call the third option anything, it will serve as the third option out of three options. Therefore it is futile to make it sound nicer and nicer and nicer, because by being the third option, only the paraphrases get devalued, which is kind of sad when eventually the third option becomes (if the present trend continues) "brilliant, a masterpiece, a gem of literary genius".
a) It's the best
b) It's extremely forgettable
c) It's fucking terrible
1. Fuckin' Yay
2. Fuckin' K
3. Fuckin' Nay
Cracked it, yay! :cool:
Come on @180 Proof. Make it so! :fire:
Although I like your enthusiasm, I don't see why we don't just use a single category, an upvote. If you don't like it or are indifferent, just don't vote for it. If you care enough, you can still put your opinions in comment posts. The one with the most upvotes wins.
I like poetry, but there is a lot that leaves me cold. That doesn't mean it's not good. I'm more interested in written comments anyway.
I was joking around, Clarky. My feelings on the voting system are well known.
Ohh... I see there is an extension...
Yes, I know. And I was just tweaking you back.
I'm not sure what constitutes my Philistinicity.
Hmmm. I think I've realized your humor is both too complex and too straightforward for me to pick up on. My brain functions somewhere in the sweet spot between your curious blend of subtlety and overtness and @Hanover's overblown tom foolery. In other words, I'm the most complex comedian on the forum. This isn't the shoutbox, though. I'll leave off for now.
Quoting Amity
Let's drop the third option. I'd forgotten we'd dropped it last time. K-I-S-S after all.
[b][ ] I enjoyed it
[ ] It's okay[/b]
And constructive(?) :razz:'s in the comments below.
@god must be atheist
Lordy, lordy, who said anything about 'reading and reviewing'! :scream:
In a reply to @javi2541997, I mentioned my deteriorating brain and other ongoing stuff.
However, given the warm welcome back; rising inspiration and mutual anticipation...
We will see. Either way, I'm looking forward to all the creativity and conversations :cool:
:kiss:
:up:
I enjoyed that
I OK'd it
Here's your dinner. Enjoy! [...] What's wrong?
- Nothing. I'm fine. All good, OK?!
Yeah right!
Ohhh never mind then... *shoves his papers back into the drawer from whence they came*...
Hah. We both know you ain't doing that - scoundrel :naughty:
That said, I would like to have a third option, which denotes a dislike.
This would help would-be readers to decide to read or not read a piece. Some would be encouraged by negative votes; they are the contrarians. Some others would be discouraged from reading pieces with third-option votes; they are those who trust the opinions of others.
I would, however, make it so that no voting would be allowed after the writers' idetntitties are revealed. It is a move by me which is obviously a defensive move, a move that would mainly benefit me, and some others too, but I suspect to lesser degrees.
How the third option, the dislike, is worded, is immaterial. I like both "not for me" and "fucking self-aggrandizing shit, a vomit-inducing miasma of nonsensical stupidity written in an impeccably worded but rather ineffable and diminishingly graduated poor taste." Or anything in-between.
I would also encourage the spirit of non-competitiveness, while tabulating the results in a table at the end of the voting period would give a chance to the general public as readers, by giving their own positive and negative weights to each of the three options, and doing a statistical analysis by using any method of their choosing how to evaluate the data, to create their own findings on the lot. This way everyone can be declared a winner, given that the choices of weighing and math are conducive to that.
Even if this does not help finding the true literary merit of the writings for a given reader, at least his or her math skills will be improved by practice.
So:
[ ] I enjoyed it
[ ] It's okay
[ ] I disliked it
Then, anyone must give reasons and give constructive feedback, right?
If there's something wrong, then suggest how it could be improved.
Is that what you have in mind?
Don't you think that the dislike option is just so negative? It's not as if criticism cannot be given in the feedback, and in more depth than just ticking a box.
My understanding of the voting is simply a way of making it into a competition, in a fun sense. Two categories is so much simpler than three. When there was the third I remember not casting a vote for the ones I disliked, and disclosing that. I was then told that it would skew the voting and I was advised to go back and add dislike votes. I had found the idea of downvoting confusing. Even the Eurovision Song Contest, with its many faults and biases doesn't have downvotes!
:up:
I didn't know that about skewing the vote...
Apparently, it would have skewed it and I was rather surprised when I was told this. It may have been if some people had included the dislikes while others hadn't done so. It may be whether the dislike is voiced or silent and, numerical or statistical impact.
I agree. Apart from being negative, I personally believe that most of the "dislike" votes would be biased. If someone - for whatever reason - doesn't like a story or poem, the user can express his/her opinion with a constructive comment. Just like @Amity proposed.
On the other hand, the story or poem can have the risk of receiving dislike votes afterwards. I mean, when the names are released.
Hmm, interesting.
Quoting Jack Cummins
You got that right!
So:
[ ] Douze points
[ ] Snooze points
Sorry, I can no longer take this seriously... @god must be atheist is yanking our chains.
The names are usually not released until the voting has finished, meaning that comments only can be given in feedback. This makes biases more transparent, if, for example, the winning story suddenly was thrashed as the worst if it was revealed to be written by someone who was extremely unpopular.
Yes, but the voting system remains after the names are released. It doesn't get closed when we discover the authors.
I am sure that the voting does not remain in place, after the authors' identities are made public. It may have been a little different in the summer one. That was it was not a contest as such, was set up by @Caldwell and had 2 stages.
As it is, n this one as with most others, there may be people making guesses at authors but they are meant to not confirm they wrote the stories until afterwards. However, @Proof180 or the moderators may be able to speak about this, to give further clarification.
I think that's a nice, midwestern way of saying you don't think I'm very funny. That's ok, you are forgiven.
Or perhaps that Im not very bright. I need the flagrant bawdiness of Hannys jokes to recognize that something is a joke in the first place.
Thanks for the opening, but on those infrequent occasions when you have something philosophical to say, you say it very well.
Philistine!
This can work, especially because we have the comment section where readers can say what they think.
Voting is I hear anonymous. Opinions expressed as comments are user-identified. This excludes the enforcement (which I would actually like to see, but it's impossible) of tying votes to opinions. The harmony between a reader's vote and opinion I suppose will be strong, but there may be exceptions.
Eh, I'm over-thinking this again.
I think overthinking is better than under-thinking. Of course, the best would be a golden middle: thinking.
You didn't hear that. You participated in all of the contests.
Jack, you need to create a math system in which negatives do not exist.
You need to create a language in which negation, denial and reversal do not exist.
You need to create a society in which beatings, crime, theft, rape, robbery, and fraud never occur.
In other words, kindness is nice, but if carried to excess, it can become just as nasty as ill will.
Alas, no. I didn't see it coming, and when it was announced there were only two weeks to go, and I was extremely busy with less interesting things anyway. Since a few days ago I've had some free time and I'd've been able to write a micro-story, but the lower limit is 500 words. It feels like a conspiracy.
EDIT: But I could offer my thoughts on the voting system if that would help.
Thanks, done.
@180 Proof has given his thumbs up to @Amity's original suggestion and there's no need to change that further. Our volunteers don't need more complications, especially as the ''voting'' is not at all important. What's important is the comments and how they help us understand our own writing. Having people like it or otherwise does not do that. The poll is really just there because, culturally, folks seem to need it.
Disclaimer: My two cents...
Sorry to hear that, bruv.
Gracias amigo. I will be on-hand for criticism.
:up:
Why @Amity justly received so much kudos for her efforts at critique whereas no one was asking who clicked the most "I like it" or "it's OK" buttons. But yes, we do seem to want that too regardless.
I quite enjoy that actually.
I've been very critical of some stories--which you would know if you'd been giving my posts the attention I crave--but I draw the line at insults. If I really dislike a story I just say nothing.
You are not alone in not seeing it coming! Two weeks wasn't enough even for the regulars, never mind any newcomers. Baden has already explained the reasons. Hopefully next time (?December) an early warning of at least 3 weeks.
Such a shame that you are not submitting
.
Regarding the rules:
Quoting Baden
I know it's late in the day but that hasn't stopped a rule change before.
I think the team missed out on the creativity of the micro whose max, if I remember correctly was 200.
The minimum, then, could have been 200, no?
I had been wondering about your silence!
Quoting Jamal
Now that is a major relief. For me, though, it is not so much about criticism ( who am I?) but dialoguing with the text and others. This is the part, along with the author's feedback, which brings it all together.
Sparks fly in all senses of the word :sparkle:
Quoting Jamal
Go on, then! :wink:
Oh, I agree. Gracias amiga.
Quoting Amity
Fair enough. For me it's about criticism. If it's not obvious, I mean it in the literary sense of "the analysis and judgement of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work", rather than just finding fault, attacking or disapproving.
Thank you for that. Again, I shrug off the descriptors of 'critique' and 'review'. They sound too serious!
Of course, I wasn't alone. The discussions were stimulating, offering different perspectives and insights.
I hadn't realised at the start just how much I would learn e.g. checking my assumptions.
It's a good way to reflect and ask questions of self and others.
Thank you and the whole team for enabling this event.
It means a lot :cool:
Of course, you have the experience and ability to do this in an intelligent, sensitive and fun manner.
Your words are just right and bright, so they are :sparkle:
However, allow me to criticize your comment...
Experience and ability are good, but I believe everyone should be encouraged to criticize, no matter what level they're at. The only thing is that one has to be careful, not so much about expressing thoughtful judgements, but about being insulting, hurtful, destructive, and so on.
I think one has to be balanced. For example...
I really hated this story, not only for the lack of imagination, the insipid prose, and the incredible stupidity of the plot, but also for the incompetence of the writing and the obvious contempt it showed for the English language. However, it showed a lot of promise, so well done!
To question with care is to be encouraged, yes.
Also, thinking how best to word/express your thoughts and feelings to lessen the chance of misunderstanding. Before pressing the Send button.
This kind of event is a relatively safe place to practise this.
Positive, negative, positive.
The 'praise sandwich':
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise_sandwich
But it's not the person that is criticised, it is the text, right?!
Even if it is sometimes felt to be a personal insult...the ego bruised.
A non-response can do that too...
Every entry should get at least one!
This is so interesting. This literary activity could be a good place to put it into practice.
Quoting Amity
I agree.
Yes, but there's more to be said, if you're talking about literary evaluation: Quoting Jamal
It is an advantage to know some basic terms and what they mean.
You are highly advanced and could probably write the book: How to Analyse Fiction.
What is your advice for those at the entry stage? Beginners.
So, we might benefit even more from the 'Literary Event'...
I found this:
Quoting 4.5 How to Analyze Fiction - Elements of Literature - Humanities LibreTexts
I appreciate you saying so but I dont think Im advanced. Just opinionated and quite good at reading. I havent read much literary criticism or literary theory, though Im interested.
It is interesting to discover different approaches. The 'praise sandwich' has its critics.
Quoting javi2541997
I thought you might :smile:
Solid advice I reckon.
It's all relative, innit?
Quoting Jamal
That surprises me. But you know how to write a proper review, right?
The language and elements involved. Other than emoticons :up: :clap: :fire: :down:
Good. I might spend time to read more of the articles...
There follows advice from Virginia Wolfe: her essay 'How Should One Read a Book'.
I remember receiving an early and useful guide from @Noble Dust - but not all the details - a simple list.
Most helpful to read, feel and respond to the effect of words on own thoughts and feelings.
And asking the usual 5 W + H questions: Who, What, When, Where, Why and How.
Moral of the story: Don't rush to judge and click on a poll option. Enjoy and Reflect. :flower:
Quoting About Fiction - Short Stories and the Novel - Humaniities LibreText
Wise move, but the writer needs to know, in the spirit of improvement, which everyone has been touting as important.
In other words: if some writer gets 8 critical reviews, and 2 are from the same person, he or she has NO CLUE how many did not leave a comment because of a dislike. Potentially, there could be hundreds on this site alone, if not thousands, because people are denied now a tickmark to let the writer know the readers did not like the story.
This is why I insisted on the third option, but noooooo, you guys are wiser.
Quoting Baden
I actually agree in giving volunteers as little to do as possible. They take away working hours and thus hard, cold cash earned by those who are paid employees. In fact, I hate like hell the entire volunteer movement as much here as everywhere else. It is a ridiculously blindsided miasma "you do good for the community" which aids the capitalist pigs, and further oppresses the proletariat. I am NOT joking. The volunteer movement should be abolished, and only paid employees or else contract workers should be doing work. Period.
I might not agree with you, and might even sometimes suspect youre crazy, but I always read your comments carefully just for gems like this. Very enjoyable.
No Im very much an amateur, but I shall endeavour to improve.
You can start tomorrow, young man.
After your workday, we will hold a holy mass, and you will be told how important it is to serve the king and your masters. You will be told, and you'll no doubt believe us when we say, that all authority derives from God, so you should actually be happy to slave your life away. After all, you believe in the value of volunteerism, so you easily can believe just the same in the value of serving the king. You will accept the reasoning, that working for free and providing pleasure for your kings and overlords paves your way to eternal bliss in heaven after you croak of hunger and exhaustion in your 38th year of age.
I hope that the evaluation of stories is not reduced to Maths entirely, as quantification may not be superior to qualitative analysis.
I am not sure that your ideas are meant to be taken without a certain amount of philosophical sense of humour. As for being 'nice' it may be limited and I would recommend being in touch with the dark and 'shadow' aspects of oneself, not just for ethics but for literary and artistic appreciation. Nevertheless, I am not sure that voting for dislikes would solve this, as opposed to deeper criticism and feedback comments.
Some people, like Jamal, do not leave any comment if they don't like a story. And there is no "dislike" voting. How will the writer know his or her story is disliked? No comment given, no vote given... they will never know.
Any suggestions to counter this conundrum, Jack?
No sweat. I can call you anything you like. Or anything I like. Not on these pages, of course. :-)
To what extent is it helpful to know if a story is disliked? From my own point of view, a certain amount of feedback is useful. However, if a story is said to be disliked, without clear useful feedback what purpose does it serve? It may end up simply breaking one's spirit and creativity, as opposed to critical reflection and the development of one's own writing.
In this respect, writing may be about illumination of one's own thinking and this in an intersubjective context. What purpose does it serve to simply show that a piece of writing is unpopular or disliked, as opposed to discouragement and the breaking of spirit and creativity?
It might not help to know. There will be stories that are just not for me, and it might not be a matter of literary merit, but rather of taste. And if I think a story does objectively have a whole host of problems, and I think this is irredeemable shit, what good can it do to say anything? Its better left to someone who likes it, or likes parts of it.
Quoting Jamal
You really are a contermashus, young man!
You are a damned, skilled wordsmith and...'quite good at reading' (hah!).
You underplay your skills and then present us all with a perfectly winning Plum Pudding.
As an 'amateur' - unpaid, not inept - you will still have a better notion than most of how to write a review.
Perhaps not a 'proper' one but not an 'improper' one either.
Anyway, you could have written a damned book, the time you've spent on all this yabbering :naughty:
Your excuses for not submitting are not holding water.
I look forward to reading your next story (or poem) whenever. Might be sooner, eh? :chin:
That's a bummer. How about a 500 word mini story?
Quoting Amity
I agree.
:up: For love not money.
Come on, Noble Dust! You can do it :100:
Just nimbly side-step, press on, falter but keep pace. There's buried treasure ahead!
:flower:
:sparkle: :flower: :sparkle:
:chin:
Yes! :cheer: :party: SHOW ME THE MONEY, JAMAL! :strong: :fire:
Oh, there is none... Never mind then.
Some treasure is better left buried...
I look forward to your input.
Truth hurts.
By chance, yesterday I bicycled by a church, and the banner in front of it said, "Truth does not hurt." Just like that. It said nothing more. So if they are right (the religious right) then you are wrong.
You have to choose between right and wrong. MBUWUHAHAHA!
Just plug it into Chat GPT and ask it to finish for you.
Wow. You just had to bring that one up again, didn't ya!
Quoting Noble Dust
No, you took on board Jamal's possible improvement of 'solemn'.
Overall, you responded well to other criticism which was not always deserved. I remember it well.
That fact alone says everything about the importance of engaging with text and others; treasured gifts. Thank you, all :sparkle:
From Jamal:
Again, some people are quick to judge and click without careful reading and reflection. What's the rush?
I stand guilty on that score too. We live and learn...
I asked it rewrite Buried Treasure from last December. This was the third iteration. I still like mine better.
"Lorena, come see this!" Henry called, waving from his dig. Leaving her own work, she sprinted barefoot through the yard.
Nimbly sidestepping a bumblebee, pollen filled her head. Her eyes darted to Henry. A crow cawed from the oak above, the late afternoon sun blinding her momentarily. Undeterred, she pressed on, her chest alive with nature's energy. The friendship rock's rays bounced off as she leaped over it with respect. The big anthill caught her attention, but she continued, glimpsing order within the chaos of countless ant paths and errands. A conveyor belt carried two dead flies.
At last, Lorena reached Henry and gasped at the skull he held.
"What is it?" he asked.
"Maybe a juvenile sparrow," she replied.
A new emotion swelled. Silently, they trotted home.
And here it is in the style of Finnegan's Wake by Joyce:
Ah, Lorana, come behold this marvel!" Henry's beckon flung her from her own toil, racing barefoot 'cross the turf.
Sly sidestep of the bumblebee, pollen haze in her head. Eye flashes at Henry, while overhead the crow caws to its mate amidst the noonday sun's gleam. Temporarily blinded, yet undeterred, her pace sustains, her bosom thrumming with life's fervor. The friendship rock's luminous dance witnessed as she leaps with solemn salutation. The gargantuan anthill pulls at her gaze, but resolute, she forges ahead, discerning harmony amidst the chaos of ant travail, a conveyor bearing the gift of two deceased flies.
Behold! Henry's grasp reveals a skull.
"What substance doth it harbor?" he inquires.
"A juvenile sparrow, perhaps," she responds.
A novel emotion swells within. In unison, wordlessly, they amble homeward.
I like it, although the doth was going too far.
Quoting Noble Dust
I agree.
However, it raises the question of how many submissions will be either ChatGPT produced or partly derived. I hate it when that happens - although there is an argument that it can be part of the art...or something.
I agree. "Sly sidestep of the bumblebee" is pure genius, however. I'm going to use that for something somewhere at some point. But it's a bit of a caricature overall, as is this version in the style of The Silmarillion by Tolkien. He would never say "In the days of yore". He also wouldn't use the word "Mayhaps", which isn't even a word.
In the days of yore, Lorena hearkened to Henry's summons, forsook her own toils, and sped barefoot across the verdant expanse.
As a nimble spirit of the woodland, she deftly sidestepped the bumblebee, its pollen's mystique enveloping her senses. Her eyes, akin to elven gaze, met Henry's countenance. High above, amidst the canopy of the oak, a crow's call rang in response to its fellow. The resplendent afternoon sun, a herald of Arien's chariot, briefly hindered her sight, yet unwavering, she persisted in her course, her heart aflame with the essence of living.
The friendship rock, an ancient totem of their bond, glimmered under the sun's caress, and with due reverence, she leaped over it. A mighty anthill, like the industrious folk of Aule's realm, sought to captivate her attention, yet undistracted, she pressed onward, perceiving amidst its labyrinthine trails a symphony of order within the pandemonium, a conveyor ferrying two lifeless flies to their destined end.
Upon reaching Henry's side, a sense of awe filled her bosom, for he bore a precious finda skull.
"What enigma does it shroud?" he inquired.
"Mayhaps, a fledgling sparrow," she answered.
A newfound emotion stirred within her being, akin to the awakening of stars in Ilmen's twilight. Silently, they traversed the homeward path, sharing an unspoken communion with the world around them, as if woven into the tapestry of the Ainulindalë.
Ive seen that plenty, in books of yore.
My Goodness! How blinkin' marvellous :clap:
Where can I get hold of one of them gadgety thingy-things...
What, ChatGPT? Just sign up for an account and ask it any question.
https://chat.openai.com/
I've asked it three times to write it in PKD's style and it's no where close. That's strangely comforting. I might have lead it astray though by telling it to feel free to make it surreal and weird like one of his novels. But by the third time I told it to forget about making it surreal and just write it in his prose style and it still failed miserably. I wouldn't even waste your time with posting them.
No such luck. It seems to be a rather mediocre fiction writer.
Now, if it would only read my 4 course books for me and plug something brilliant into my brain...
Quoting Noble Dust
:chin:
I wonder if you can have ChatGPT proofread stuff.
5th at 12 midnight UTC.
I am sorry for my questions... but ust would be the same as UCT? Even google does not want to answer me what ust is... :yikes: I still submit to @Noble Dust or @hypericin? As you see, I am rushing to make the deadline here :grimace:
47 hours of blank pages still to go.
(Sobriety is a bitch.)
:up:
Yall got this. For some reason inputting that micro story of mine into ChatGPT for awhile helped me relax which helped get re-inspired. Maybe some similar activity would help.
Really? ChatGPT is that g-rated? Seems off.
You absolutely must extend the deadline by 24 hours.
I am halfway through the next great [insert country here] novel.
P. S. This discussion will remain visible on the main discussions page, but to avoid clutter, individual story comments will be hidden from the "all discussions" front page. Remember, everything is easily accessible from the categories menu.
:party:
ChatGPT's a machine. It can't possibly sense all the beauty and grace in a well-executed fuck.
This is serious. I don't get this. Honest. If someone comments on a story, nobody can see it, because it will not be released into a discussion?
Please clarify.
And a discussion can't see a comment anyway. People see the comment.
Please clarify.
I am not trying to be difficult. I have serious problems understanding what you are trying to say.
There won't be a notification on the front page of the site for every comment is all.
Edited above.
You're right. This site is well-organized. I have seen sites, set up by humanities-oriented people, which made no sense in their structures; impossible to navigate; and you never found your way back to whence you came from.
:cry:
True true.
In terms of intelligibility yes, but it doesn't read like Joyce at all really (not that I don't like the bumblebee bit).
Writer's block is the horrible enemy because I suffer with the disease so often. My writing prompt for you is to choose one of your all time favourite songs as a starting point for imagination...I have come across a few books which were a collection of short stories inspired by the songs by the Fall, Sonic Youth and a few other bands.
By the way, it may be the deepest wish to create a 'perfect' piece of art, as a masterpiece, is the real basis of some writer's block. My basis for saying this, is that the first artistic block I had was seeing a blank sheet of paper as fearful before beginning drawing or painting, wishing to create something wonderful out of the blank void.
Well then, you're gonna have to type bloody fast, ain't ya!
Come on. You must have 100's of stories to tell, if not thoosands.
Look at last time. The micros that simply flew from you, landing here, ding, dong, bloody dell :fire:
Read them again and the comments.
I've just had a quick look at one of the four. Perhaps not one of your best, but still :clap:
About Face. I didn't really get it but it was still good to read and thought-provoking.
Here's one of the comments. You inspire people,180. Get on with it, pretty please :sparkle:
I think you are spot on. @180 Proof is a perfectionist. And I don't believe he has 'nada'!
Stop thinking about :100:
[s]Some[/s] Most people would be happy to have even 50% of your talent. If you can't write a story, then transform one of your micros to a love-ly poem. Start right now, or I will be most unhappy :broken:
I want a love letter straight to my heart :hearts: ( no pressure :wink: )
Doing your best is enough. Play music, for the sheer joy...and pleasure.
Alison Moyet - Love Letters (Performance Version)
As we say: El qué nada no sé ahoga.
It means that those who can swim, survive. :smile: or the ones who are tough in difficult moments, go ahead. :yum:
:smile: It reminded me of this.
Swim little fish swim on...
Once upon a time there was a little fish
And he lived in a long, long stream
And to make his way to the great wide world
Was this little fish's dream
But a wise old trout, who'd been about
Advised him what to do
He said "Fishes wishes won't come true
If they dream the whole day through"
So, swim little fish, swim on
Swim little fish, swim on
We're two ambitious fishes, you and I
We'll get our wishes if we try, try, try
Swim little fish, swim on
Swim little fish, swim on
Blow little bubbles all the long day through
Show little troubles that they can't stop you
For everything worthwhile in life
Is hard to get, my friend
So don't give up and don't give in
It's worthwhile in the end...
I'll bet you could get a 500+ worder in. Here's your prompt: pineapples, gin, leather pants. Get on it! :fire: :halo:
:smile:
But, but... we're disturbing him at 03.48hrs...the guy needs his Zzzzzz's, doesn't he?
I never have writer's block when I'm writing non-fiction, e.g. what I write here on the forum or the reports I used to write as an engineer. Poetry is a different thing. With that I have to wait till it comes. I don't even wait, I just don't think about poetry unless the inspiration comes to me. I guess if I were a poet I'd always have writer's block. I've tried to kick-start my muse, but it's never worked. When it comes, it comes from nowhere, unexpectedly.
https://www.nhsinform.scot/long-term-effects-of-covid-19-long-covid/signs-and-symptoms/long-covid-brain-fog/
It can be physical and much more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writer%27s_block
Please don't feel pressurised. Take care :heart:
I'm sure I've said this several times, but I think it's possible to train yourself out of having writers block. As always, my experience is with music more than words, but there was a period in my life where I would essentially force myself to write a song a day. I believe anyone can train themselves to do this sort of thing; I'm not special (this is starting to sound like a self help guru infomercial. For the low price $29.99 a month this can be yours!).
Basically, I think it has to do with what Jack was saying about perfectionism. Writers block and perfectionism are linked. The discipline I'm talking about involves writing something without regard for whether it's good. In other words, writers block is purely psychological. The human capacity for creation is boundless and the only thing that gets in our way is ourselves. It sounds corny but it's true. I actually wrote some songs I'm proud of with this technique.
That said, I understand that it's different for everyone. I was doing this at a point in time where I was going full throttle and trying to make a career out of it. If writing is just a hobby to indulge in once in awhile, maybe what I'm describing doesn't apply.
That would truly be an unpleasant feeling! :wink:
Unless...
Hey now!
Most of the time I don't have writer's block when writing non-fiction, especially on the forum, but I did when I was a student writing essays. When I was writing one on Kantian ethics I kept rewriting the first paragraph over and over again and ended up having to ask for an extension. I can also remember staying up in the nights, on caffeine tablets, doing various written assignments.
Now, I find it easier to write fairly spontaneously on most issues of philosophy but that is probably because I overthink. The creative tasks seem to come from a different place in the mind altogether and I often lose sight of the muses. What I find to be the biggest enemy of creativity is stress upon stress and, unfortunately, life seems to keep churning out more and more stress, which probably drives the engines of overthinking.
What?! :halo:
Not only psychological. See the wiki excerpt above.
Hmmm. I'm just speaking from experience. "Purely" was probably an exaggeration. How about "often".
:up: Yeah, you gotta keep a close watch on them adverbs, lest they lead you astray, bigly :wink:
Adverbs are truly the worst part of language.
I thought your thing was pronouns...
Eh?
I was thinking of the comments, here:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13745/the-hairpin-by-tobias/p1
Oh, the "they" vs. "it" thing?
Yeah, that was memorable. And BC's response to you:
I agree. I am a perfectionist with my writing, but at the end, not the beginning. I tend to let things flow any old which way they want and then fix them during editing.
Quoting Noble Dust
I've thought about your method - just write every day - but I've never done it for more than one or two days. My poetry inspirations are so infrequent and so out-of-nowhere, like lightening striking. A visual image comes first. And that's it. The poem flows directly out of that image, usually with no additional thought, sometimes with no editing required. That's why my poems tend to be short.
tl;dr - I'm too lazy to use your method.
Hoping to read your work soon.
I remember the same things from school, but it hasn't been a problem since then. Maybe it's because since school I've only ever had to write about things I cared about or had a stake in other than just a grade.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Well, I think of the things I write here and those I used to write for work as just as creative as my poetry, but it's true they come from different places. The inspirations and motivations are different. The processes feel different.
I write all my poetry in pig Latin. Iay inkthey Iay illway evernay eesay aay oempay asay ovelyay asay aay reetay.
Speaking of which, here's all of "Trees" translated into pig-Latin by Chat GPT. It took it three tries to get it correct.
Eayhinktay atthay Iayay allshay evernay eesay
Aay oempay ovelylay asay aay eetray.
Aay eetray owhay ungryhay outhmay ishay estpray
Agains'tay ethay earth'say eetsway owflay eastbray;
Aay eetray atthay ookslay atay Ooday allway ayday,
Anday iftslay erhay eafylay armsay otay ayspray;
Aay eetray atthay aymay inay ummersay earway
Aay estnay ofay obinsray inay erhay airhay;
Uponay owhay osemay asway aynlay;
Whoay intimatelyay iveslay ithway aynray.
Oemspay areay ademay ymay oolsfay ikelay emay,
Utbay onlyay Oodgay ancay akeamay aay eetray.
I cannot read that. I will lose my mind.
Ilestinephay.
How many stories and poems were submitted?
13 stories. At least 9 poems; not sure of the final number.
All poems have been posted. Please read and answer the poll. Merci.
2 out of these 10 poems are haikus. Nice! Good job and congrats to the authors. Now it is time to the feedback. :smile:
Quoting Caldwell
It is 06:36 AM here, I am going to read them carefully and answer during the morning.
Thanks @Caldwell for your commitment in publishing the poems.
Also, thanks to @Noble Dust and @hypericin for their commitment towards the short stories.
Cheers, friend. I very much value you getting involved.
Well done and thank you all! :cool:
:cool:
Maybe we are surrounded by poets and we never knew that until this activity! :cool:
I will comment the short stories later on. Now I am getting busy with other stuff.
Two poems were outstanding. I gave an "I enjoyed it" vote to both.
All other poems got no vote from me, because I am not sure of the meaning "It's okay". I did not want to misrepresent my opinion about them. Please note: The voting options have been discussed at length, and any more clarification will be futile.
Two or three poems were not my cup of tea; I said that in the discussion section in posts. This has to do with my personal taste. It is not a judgment on those poems.
Two poems made no sense to me. I gave them a real hard, long look. I read them each several times, beginning to end. I still don't know what the heck they were about. Others obviously understood them -- javi was excellent at that -- but to me they contained no sense. Although I admit that that fact took nothing away from their poetic value -- they looked very nice.
All other poems were very, very good in my opinion.
And all of them were poetic, worthy of the descriptor "poem" in their essence. Even the ones I called "not my cup of tea" and "non senical". Only one excepted, that one had no feeling, only a dry description. That one was fun to read, but it was not what I would call poetry.
Good showing, I have to say. :cheer:
Appreciate you getting involved so quickly. Look forward to your thoughts on the stories.
Just vote everything you didn't think was outstanding with "it's okay", that way votes reflect what people, who actually read them, think the best.
You and @god must be atheist were quick off the marks and making useful comments, thanks!
I've only managed to read and comment on 2 poems and need to take a break.
Won't be able to cover all entries at this rate. Something's gottta give :sad:
Help!! :groan:
@Baden How long have we got until the end of the event?
13 stories and 10 poems. Crikey...
Edit: OK, I know. KISS. Like @Caldwell and others who know how :flower:
Or just pick a few... hmm.
:up:
:up:
By the way, this literary activity is also important to develop the skills regarding comprehension and grammar.
Kudos to all the contributors. Your effort is appreciated.
How did you reach that conclusion?
I note that you and some others don't 'get' certain poems for whatever reasons; personal bias being one of them. It appears that some can't wait for a fuller discussion or dialogue before voting.
I think this rush to vote is unfortunate. We have all the time in the world. Or just under 2 weeks!
You are not the only one that needs a dictionary or thesaurus, even for English speakers!
I've enjoyed your knowledge and sometimes amazing insights.
Unfortunately, you seem reluctant to explain further some of your excellent comments and appraisals.
You mentioned elsewhere that you think it best to wait for the authors to expand and clarify.
But this is too late, isn't it?
For example, I am intrigued by what you consider to be haiku when it might only be a 3-line stanza.
For others not appreciative of (English) haiku, or even short non-rhymes, it can look like an unintelligible sneeze! And perhaps it is. Sometimes it's not about satisfying readers; it can simply be an expression of the way a writer sees, feels and thinks, in the moment.
You are most perceptive and have done so much for this event. It's not over yet. It's just started.
If you've time, I think we could all learn more from you...
Unfortunately, for me, I'm not able to give such careful attention this time around.
Like you, I love and learn from this whole engagement.
Quoting javi2541997
Indeed :flower:
Thanks for your kindness, Amity. :flower:
Quoting Amity
I agree it could be too late. Yet, what I thought in some poems and stories is that they hold a lot complexity or "metaphysics". For example: the poem Protennoia is completely amazing, but maybe I am losing a detail or something relevant to understand it clearly. Benkei asked me: what's the message? And then I replied what I understood, but maybe I am far away from what the real feelings are of the author.
Let's see what happens when the names will be released!
OK. Understood. I might have to return to the haiku question in the relevant thread...
Thanks again :up:
Quoting Benkei
OK, so not the 'last time'.
Your comparison is with short story competition 3. Hmmm...I don't know, being ignorant about the craft.
I wonder if the craftsmen there would agree.
For example @180 Proof, @Tobias @Baden @hypericin...
But I guess you have a point, for someone who enjoys creativity - continual practice to hone their skills, like @Jack Cummins, they strive for improvement. Yeah, I've noticed that...
Why this event is so important :up:
Quoting Benkei
I can't remember that. But this time round, more seemed to be rushed - perhaps their writing suffered. Then again... *shrugs*... I don't know...
No matter. I share your praise - Very Well Done All :clap:
So, at the moment, I am thinking that the best approach here may be to read each piece and, possibly give feedback comments. Then, having read them all to vote for likes and dislikes. I am also unsure whether it is better to vote for all, into likes and dislikes, or not vote for all. I am trying to find the most workable way of going about this and I am interested to know what others see to be the most workable and helpful approach. Obviously, each of us has different reading approaches and amounts of time to spend on it.
I appreciate your appreciation.
Critique the stories? A tough nut for me. I'm getting on with my age. I am losing it. My rote memory is despicably bad, and my attention span is worse than before. I can't read even one short story of the lot from beginning to end. I tried.
The poems were great, there is a huge variety, and they each are a manageable size for me, Except for one, as noted, the longest of the poems. I could not get to the bottom of that, either.
Sorry to let you down. This is old age, and youth misspent with undiagnosed ADHD or whatever the hey it was. I was not over-active physically, but I fidgeted a lot in school, and doodled. In grade four I already found myself unable to read and memorize text that was boring for me. It HURT in some level. It was not a physical hurt, or a psychological one, yet I was unable to continue after a while with boring texts.
NOT to say that the short story entries were boring. I am not a judge of that... I can't read them! Text repulses me.
---------------------------
I wrote the above some days ago,but did not hit "Post Comment" command button because I must have been tired or something.
That is what I am rather confused about. To vote or not vote, and how does it stand? Perhaps, a better way, for future competitions, would be to give each story a mark out of 10 like some of the music press did for albums. However, perhaps there is a danger of it becoming too concrete. However, as with former competitions it would be useful to clarify the distinction between a vote at all or an absence of a vote and how this is quantified. In other words, is an okay better than a lack of numbers in the voting count?
So very true. This event offers an opportunity to recognise other ways of seeing and being.
Reading things we are not usually open to, to get over ourselves; to expand our horizons :cool:
Does this help?
From @180 Proof earlier:
Perhaps, the understanding of 'other ways of seeing and being' is the essential value of poetry, fiction , as opposed to the abstraction and rationality of philosophy. It is about stepping into 'alternative realities'.
I don't see the creativity that exists in fiction or in philosophy (even the rational, abstract kind) as being in opposition when it comes to exploring other ways...it's working with imagination...
Maybe we should let Proof180 work this out. My Maths isn't up to the logistics. It might have been simpler if there was just an 'I enjoyed it', as I am not sure if we are meant to vote for everything else as, 'It's okay'. I don't mean to make an issue out of it, and it may be that the, 'It's okay', is simply better than no vote at all.
It's @180 Proof if you want to catch his attention.
No, I don't see the creativity of fiction or philosophy as being more important. Imagination comes into both. Mythos and logos may be complementary.
:smile: So, how is your reading coming along? Getting there...?
Kudos to the people that can connect words/paragraphs/poems with images or paint. My imagination cannot go that far! :smile:
By the way, the image you posted in Sempre is spooky.
It is fascinating. I remember @Nils Loc's images in @hypericin's 'Three Shittyass Ghosts':
He wrote:
Sheer brilliance :fire:
Quoting javi2541997
Is that how you interpreted the poem?
Quoting Amity
Rather than interpret the poem, I perceived the moment. It is complex to explain, but I felt the same "emotions" of the author. That's what haiku is all about: perception. :smile:
We should really talk about this in the poem's discussion thread. But given that we are now here...
I think you did more than perceive the moment and any 'emotions'. How do you know they were the same? Perhaps, here is a case where an assumption needs to be checked out.
Like any poem, you can have a first read or immediate 'perception' but then usually the brain kicks in to interpret, to make sense of it. I've gone back to see what you wrote. There's more to be said about:
Perhaps an idea to return to the discussion and reply to @Benkei's 'spooky' post, there?
You are right, there is not one single 'correct' interpretation for any piece of creativity. Therein lies the joy.
Yours might well be too complex to explain but worthwhile to try, I think. For everyone's benefit.
You're good at it :flower:
I am pissed off to the max. I had an idea, and I was sternly told "NO!" and now everyone WANTS that same idea I was promoting.
Poss off already.
It is a bit complex to comment on a haiku. It is just a poem of three verses that says a lot (or the basic if it is sophisticated). I was in a haiku activity two months ago. The "masters" taught me that a haiku is written to be perceived rather than understood. For example: if my haiku is about a lemonade, you would feel summer vibes (maybe!) :cool:
"Sempre" is a magnificent haiku because it is "mu-kigo." Thus, a haiku without a reference to a specific season or nature. It is just an ordinary specific moment. Very clever.
It reminds me about one of the favorites of Kobayashi:
[b]I am cold
every time I lean on myself.
House beams![/b]
Maybe the correct word is abstract. That's what I wanted to refer to. :smile:
This and previous replies really and truly need to be copied and pasted to the relevant thread [*]
To further understanding and appreciation. To provide more positivity, currently AWOL.
This gem of yours will get lost in the mist of the murk and fog of a general discussion.
[*]
Please consider doing that. For the sake of the world and all mankind. For balance :sparkle:
Even better if they were in the right place *sighs*
Then you do not get pissed, you smile and applaud all the other for their great insight into the matter at hand. You congratulate yourself for having seen it coming ages ago and pour a glass of your finest liquor. You sit back and enjoy. Contrarian voices have most influence when their name is on everyone's lips in a most unfavorable way, when they are ridiculed and laughed at, but leaders are at their strongest when they are not mentioned at all.
Quoting god must be atheist
And just to chime in, of course a no vote serves something. Some stories are love it or hate it, some middle of the road. The no vote represents the power of the negative, your chance to weigh in and voice your opinion in stark terms. The reason no no-vote is included is because of an atmosphere in which we only want positivity to count and no one dares to say something is just not so great lest he or she jinxes the feel good vibes which everything is demanded to give right now. It breeds a generation of people intolerant to even the mildest of criticism.
That said, I do not care much. The organizers are doing their utmost best and if one is critical one must also be prepared to play a role I think. I know anyway if I am being upvoted or down voted. No amount of sugar will change that.
Not sure what happened there. I've enjoyed your comments though, so if there were a poll on comments. ... Wait, can we put polls on our comments? @Jamal get Plush on the line, please.
Nice. I've read one or two magnificent haikus in my time but I'm not really sensitised enough to the form to comment on anything but the blindingly obvious.
You, Jack Cummings and Amity said that there is no service by negative feedback to help writers to better writing. That is true, I agree.
A lot of people now complain that it is impossible to evaluate where one stands by the voted feedback, and it is also impossible to communicate by vote how much one likes a story or not. It is, some say, a hindrance with this competition.
I understood from the outset that this is not a competition.
Then it is a competition.
Then it is a nice summer reading, without ranking or competing.
I think the basic problem is that there is no consensus whether it's a competition or a friendly show of talent.
The superstructure of the problem is that if it's a competition, then there is no way of evaluating the votes, since they are not defined how to evaluate them.
The other superstructure problem is that if it's a friendly show of talent, then negative comments and negative votes are not conducive for the authors' developing the talent they got.
I understand that you feel I am wishy-washy and self-contradictory. That's fine, I am not going to argue with that, but please consider the problem from the point of view of the flip-flop of nobody knowing or in decision power to make it into a competition or a friendly show of talent. Once that gets settled, everything else will fall in its place.
What happened there is that you declared, rightfully, that this is not a competition but a friendly show of talent (or something to that effect).
Then some people started to talk about the voting options. "Not Liked" was voted out, as it would not help the authors.
Then some people wondered how to interpret "it's okay".
Then some people spread the idea to vote "it's okay" if one does not like the story, and other people spread the idea that if you don't like an entry, show it by not voting.
Then some people assumed that it's a competition.
From then on, mayhem took over. Not an antagonistic mayhem, but people discussing in a friendly way what the hey is happening here. The only animosity coming out of this was done by yours truly here.
I am ashamed of losing my cool, but I must say that it has to be settled or declared or let be known by all whether it's a competition or a friendly show or talent, and it has to be defined what "it's okay" means in terms of like or dislike or neither.
Your instructions to me are not bad in and by themselves, but other people gave me different instructions, and they were not bad in and by themselves.
A definite consensus is not what you, alone, tell me to do.Sorry.
Quoting 180 Proof
What you say there is something I heard in affirmative from other people. Their instructions to me are on the forum, in plain view. You attribute to me something I did not come up with, but heard others believe in and hold as policy.
I am not getting these things out of thin air. If you can't see my point, that there is a consensus needed, first if it's a competition or not, and second what the voting options mean, then the confusion will prevail. I am not against anything concrete. I am against the absurdity of letting it go so far out of hand.
In fact, I think Baden said in the early pages, that it is not a competition. Which is fine. But nobody of the executive said something against the opinion voiced by others that this is a competition. So the decree has been made, but the mistake has been committed of misattributing the exercise. That is fine, but it needs correction.
At present there is no consensus. It can be directed by the executive, or it can be reached some other way. But the nature of the exercise has been bastardized, and that needs correcting.
I like your commitment when you comment in both the stories and poems, but I think you are taking the voting system quite personal. At the end, this is a literary activity, not a competition. This is why there is not a "dislike" option, the feedback of the users already does so.
But this is not an obstacle to choose what story or poem we consider better to simply congratulate the effort of the author at the end of the activity. This election will not be made "diminishing" the stories or poems of the others. :smile:
I am not in the camp of Amity and Jack on this one. I do not believe everything has to be about 'feedback' or 'providing services'. I think that is neo-liberal jargon, which I do not embrace. (I wonder if neo-liberal means the same thing to an American as it does to a Dutchman but that is an aside, I meanthat the emphasis on feedback fts within a culture that is outwardly very positive, but actually demands from its member always to excel and everything is geared to that demand for excelence)
Quoting god must be atheist
I think no such thing. What I was saying was also half and half in jest. Why would you feel the need to say you pointed out something earlier? That was what I was pointing out. ;)
I am in no particular 'camp' with any of you guys :roll:
I think I said it best when I suggested (if 3 options were necessary):
[ ] Fuckin' Yay
[ ] Fuckin' K
[ ] Fuckin' Nay
I believe, along with others, that feedback is of more value to both the writer and the reader.
An intelligent dialogue of thoughts and impressions. Questions and responses. I don't see this as 'providing services'. I don't recognise anything I've said as 'neo-liberal jargon'. @Tobias we've had this disagreement before. Remember 'Cruelty' by @ToothyMaw:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13746/cruelty-by-toothymaw
I think @god must be atheist raised a good point re the ambiguity of 'It's OK'.
Some took this to mean a dislike, some to indicate less than the sheer brilliance of the few. Others hit that option without waiting for further discussion or feedback. They seem almost proud to admit their ignorance or bias...we don't need no understanding...
OK, perhaps that's a bit harsh...but reflects my frustration. I'm with @god must be atheist here.
Whatever...this has been discussed ad nauseam. For someone who doesn't like walls of text, gmba can sure inflict them on others.
The eventual decision was that of pragmatism.
Perhaps ideas of literature evaluation need a good thrashing out in a specific thread.
Quoting Tobias
No more from me, right now... stories and poems to read and appreciate...
I did not read through all of the discussion. Atheist thought you did not want to have a down vote. From this post it appears you did. Well, possible misunderstanding. Misunderstandings abound actually, because my response was to atheist who thought I was holding some position which I did not...
Quoting Amity
Another misunderstanding I guess. Nor do I. I responded to Atheist's "there is no service...". The line of thought I come across very often: "we need to improve each other!". That is all well and good, but I have the suspicion it is always followed by: "we must all become better and remarks cannot be simply remarks but have some edifying value". I do not know if you hold that position or anything. It was not criticism of you, but a response to atheist who apparently thought I was inclined one way whereas I was not.
Quoting Amity
For me the 'it's ok' is an unambiguous "meh". That is because if one would have liked it, one votes it up. Phrases and concepts only have meaning in relation to other concepts they stand opposed to. I do not care much though, whether it is "I hate it" or "it's ok"... I know what is being said and I appreciate to comments more anyway.
Quoting Amity
Indeed, true! Much better things to do. Take care Amity!
:up:
Ah well, I varied (sorry!)...to try and see other points of view. To begin with, it was just a note of the discrepancy from last year to this. I didn't like the ambiguity of the 3rd option - 'It's not for me'.
In general, I don't like 2 absolutes. Black and white thinking.
Quoting Tobias
Yup. Most would see an OK as just plain and simple.
And I said I wasn't gonna talk no more about it :roll:
Quoting Tobias
You too Tobias!
:up:
It's good to hear your thoughts. I know you're genuine. I'm going to take all that in and try to use your feedback positively for the next time. :up:
I had a quick read of all the stories, but need another fuller read. I don't think that I could ever give full reviews like you do, but I do hope to make some comments gradually. I am glad that we have until the 20th and I would like to look at the poems too if I have enough time. I don't think that I am able to multitask enough to read the stories and poems at the same time though.
A lot of people seem to have made votes and made comments already, which is great. I am not going to worry about the voting system any longer, as that may be taking it too seriously rather than enjoying the work for what it is. I can remember when as a teenager I used to care so much what numbers my favourite bands got to in the chance and it stopped being important a long time ago.
Your comments are excellent; thoughtful, succinct and to the point. I don't really give reviews as such. My comments come as I engage with the text; the result of thinking things through... as I go. Usually after a few reads; light to get the sense, then deeper. For me, it is time-consuming and I won't be able to do it for every entry. I kinda go with the flow, following my nose as it were :wink:
After the initial scan of poems and stories, it's a case of which one do I fancy tackling today...depending on brain function.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Wise :sparkle:
I will try to reply to all. Even if I leave a K.I.S.S. or just a vote. It's all good :up:
It is time consuming to comment on everything and I have written less on the forum for a while. All this reading on digital devices rather than paper books is not great for the eyes, so I will read and comment on as many as pieces as I am able to cope with.
It also depends how much stress the next couple of weeks bring too, but I have decided I am on holiday from the philosophy threads until the deadline here. Holiday breaks from philosophy may be good even though the site goes on 24hrs everyday. I am not sure if I get headaches from reading or too much philosophy! Perhaps, some others need a couple of weeks annual leave from philosophy too.
Yes, I seem to remember you have specific eye problems. I hope you're not still reading on a small phone screen. That's got to be a struggle and hurt.
And yeah, it makes sense to take breaks as and when :wink:
I admit to becoming too involved at times, but I know when to leave it!
Take care :sparkle:
Isn't that about when the Guessing Game used to kick off, maybe a bit later ?
Fun, even if I only ever got one or two right...and it does distract from ongoing reading and comments.
Shame we can't use @Noble Dust and his useful list to tick off... :smile:
Anyway I think Ive identified the authors of three or four of the stories so far. One is definite, the others slightly less so.
:lol: Tell me it ain't so.
I have 2 and a half definites but I'm not sharing just yet.
Do you even know the meaning of patience? :roll:
In theory. But dont worry, I wont reveal anything just yet.
Are you always right in identifying the stories? One I was convinced in a previous competition was by Kenosha Kid and it turned out to be Benkai's AI one. One I was convinced was written by the Madfool, and I was so wrong. So, I am not making many guesses, which is probably good because the guesses themselves may colour the reading of the stories.
On the other hand, I feel "worried" that @Hanover didn't comment yet!
No, but when Im certain Im usually right. After several competitions there are maybe three authors I can quickly recognize.
I do think you're making too big a deal about this. I've read some of your comments on people's work. I was impressed by how thoughtful and generous they were. As far as I'm concerned, that should be enough.
I don't know if you have a story or poem submitted. Perhaps that makes a difference.
Actually, from what I have read at this stage I haven't had any strong guesses about the individual authors. It is probably a good thing if people are able to guess correctly who the authors are because it may signify unique writing voices. What I am wondering though is if there are more similarities this time because certain standards and styles have emerged from previous competitions.
I remember when I have been to writing groups certain norms of conformity often develop. However, very different from the ones here, often based on overwritten and exaggerated use of the senses. The funny extreme of this was writing, such as someone kissing and tasting the food the person had just eaten on the lover's lips. I think this was meant to be literary fiction...
Im not sure I see more similarities between stories, but I do think people are writing in certain ways particular to this community, and its quite possible that norms will appear because of that. It would be interesting to carry out an analysis and dig them out.
I wonder about this... all individual pattern recognition. Us writers have been pushed and pulled, we have learned i.e. been fed input. Some of us by Hemmingway, some Borges, some Murakami... We reproduce and derivate much like ChatGPT no? What makes us different is that we do it less well. So, it is the mistakes mistakes that make us who we are. The essence of a thing is not being the thing that it is. It is the failure to be what it is, that makes it a unique something and therefore something real.
:cool: :up:
Mistakes mistakes? Like the (intentional?) irony.
Interestingly, ChatGPT also deliberately makes "mistakes", that is, it chooses words that score less highly than the ones it deems the best and most likely. If it always chooses the best ones, it sounds robotic and inhuman, and also enters repetitive loops. Only by making less predicted word choices does it sound human.
Interesting. :up:
Quoting Jamal
Quoting Tobias
More shall be revealed...
Well, you have a bit less than two weeks to go. This seems to be a theme; we all feel the need to comment ASAP. Not true. If you read and commented one story and poem per day, you would have enough time to read them all.
If you do not comment, you don't get paid! :razz:
Literary labour slavery!
:100:
Not all of us. But grateful to the ones who led the way :sparkle:
Then how much time for the authors' feedback?
Yes, comments will remain open. Posters can talk with the authors about the stories for as long as they want.
Forever + :kiss:
This.
Ive never experienced ham being over powered by pickle; only pure delight.
Indeed.
I'd ditch the red onion to avoid fisticuffs with the wifey but would like it otherwise. Don't understand combining pickled peppers and mustard though. Next time try making a sauce with the tomato, fresh peppers, bit of sugar, garlic, the onion, olive oil, oregano, a dash of salt and leave out the mustard. Ingredients of sauce to be glaced and then simmer for thirty minutes. Let cool. Serve with bread, turkey, lettuce, bell pepper and cucumber. :wink:
At the risk of sounding stereotypically American, the idea of pickles not belonging on sandwiches is wild to me. What do you do with them otherwise?! Are you just eating pickled things out of jars with your hands willy nilly?
Not everyone in the US would approve either, Im just a vinegar fiend.
Im a garbage disposal, so your sandwich sounds good and Id try it, but I do find it quite strange. Cooked tomato sauce on a sandwich thats otherwise not Italian-inspired I find curious. Typical Italian-American sandwiches with red sauce on them are called Parms and are simply a protein or veg, (commonly meatballs or breaded and fried eggplant), the tomato sauce, and mozzarella. Served hot with the cheese melting. No Parmesan to be found, inexplicably.
I approve.
I like them on sandwiches, pastrami comes to mind. They are also good with paté. Pickles with hearty stews are indeed good too. The acid cuts through the fats. Pickles a particularly typical Amsterdam saussage, 'Oxsaussage', is very good too.
See this wiki link for more information on this typically Amsterdam delicacy and the pic features Amsterdam pickled onions too.
Ox saussage
Those pickled onions look amazing.
I hate to be the inquisitor, but if you do not leave your comment on Poetry Aug 2023, you do not have access to breakfast. :rage:
No brekky?
I feel like both stories and poems have gone cold. Maybe there's too many submissions total with this format. I'd actually like to see more story comments; poems seem to be receiving more.
Ah, so you think my American palate is coarse and just wants intensity. Roight.
I disagree. You are all doing a great job in the Discussions. Even if, like here, they can sometimes slide into Shoutboxy Slaverings.
Quoting jgill
They can't help themselves.
This is just another thread where the usual rules are thrown out the window. Anything goes.
I agree! But I think @Amity is doing a good job anyway, and she is trying to comment in each entry.
Folks are doing a good job commenting. But we'd be further along with you, as you know. Don't pretend to be modest.
Again, I know you're busy, so there's no expectation. Whatever you can add will be very much valued.
Quoting Amity
Many of us are foodies. :razz:
You agree yet you don't! Just choose which side you're on. Sometimes being mean is ok. :joke:
Sorry bout that. But saying you'd eat my sammy if the veg was a bit out of date doesn't exactly make me feel good.
I'm not pretending anything. I'm trying to take the spotlight off of me.
As for getting along further:
I encourage others to get on with focusing on the text and responding to it rather than guessing who the author is.
Quoting javi2541997
Yes, I've only a few poems and stories to go. I appreciate our stimulating and encouraging talks
But time spent yattering here would be better spent elsewhere.
Ok, so you're not a pickle guy. I am. I also love the fresh veg that can be applied to a sando. Are we good?
Why should I work for you without any sustenance? Don't bother answering. I'm outta here.
Yes, I agree with this, even though I l love the guessing game and always will. Myself, I've done some work, and plan to do re-reads of everything and then make comments on everything, as I still haven't commented on every entry. But I guess I would love for most people interested to make this kind of effort. But I know this isn't realistic.
What? You good?
This is actually very poetic, what with all those metaphors and stuff. You should have submitted it. I'd vote for it.
Or... Did you actually do so and we are not aware yet? :eyes:
Interesting proposal. I think it would be fine if the stories and poems were locked in their position regarding the alphabetical order of the titles. What do you think?
Done.
Well, sort of. The only sort choices are by last updated, date ascending and date descending*. I chose date ascending. Now they're locked in position (I assume).
*Where the date is the date/time the story was posted.
Thanks! :up: :party:
They'll get over it.
Agreed.
I don't particularly like the new ordering system and don't see the need for it.
It looks like the last one submitted is top of the list. It makes me wonder how many stories were only submitted after the extension was granted. If someone posted about their last-minute dash, then we have an idea of the authors. But no matter...
Quoting Benkei
It's easy enough to keep track. Especially if you've made a special effort with each submission.
You can also check replies under your own 'Comments'.
A lot of song and dance over nothing. Yet another distraction from reading, reflecting and writing.
I like to see the latest live comments. So I'm for the original.
You didn't even wait for others contacted to make their views known.
Quoting Amity
I responded to the question posed by @Benkei.
Quoting Benkei
You still do. The thread title is bolded when you haven't seen the last comment yet.
All good. :up:
Exactly this.
It's boring to see a fixed list. It kills the momentum and any excitement there might be...
Or maybe not? I'm in transit today, so I'll have to leave you to it for now.
That said, to prevent people getting any more upset I can change it back if those who suggested it wouldnt mind.
Nope. It's a simple and honest response to questions.
Warring words strike like thunder
Afterwards kisses and hugs, my lover
I don't think you're giving this deeply significant issue the close attention it deserves. Your cavalier attitude is... well, cavalierical.
I like the one about the rollercoaster and the ham better.
You'll just have to wait and see.
If it helps at all, I did begin posting the stories in the order I received them but that quickly divulged into chaos.
Climaxing finally into a calming eruption.
Your work is appreciated. This new fixed list...
Barring words like God dammit
From my vocabulary
I quickly lose all sense of direction
Both physically
And poetically.
* You can see all the newest comments without scrolling down
* You can see in a visual way where everyone's attention is and has been
* It is unbiased, with the new way stories at the top will get more attention than at the bottom. With the old way you can go out of your way to comment on the bottom ones.
I thought of this as well.
:pray:
Are you using a Nokia from 1999 or something?
Try an actual computer, not some toy phone. But even on my latest Samsung it doesn't all fit.
I see you've read my story and not commented on it!
Im confused. The stories I thought might be written by you all have comments from Benk.
I suppose I shouldn't be giving hints.
Quoting Amity
Quoting Jack Cummins
Quoting 180 Proof
Good points! :up:
And the haikus must be in Japanese the next time as well! :wink:
Excellent word choice. Right up there with its more celebratory cousin, jamboree. A word taught to me by the highly educational children's show Arthur.
Jamboree is a well known word in scouting circles... actually the world jamboree has recently been evacuated in South Korea because of a hurricane.
edit: the jamboree may make a good subject for a future story... the main protagonist will be named Akela.
Typhoon.
Quoting Caldwell
Also @hypericin:
Quoting hypericin
All of this brouhaha, lovely word that, because a few can't keep track using the old method. Why now?
The original has been going on and strong since the Story Competition started. No problems at all!
I am struggling with the new format. The change is not an improvement. Quite the contrary.
I see youve made some good contributions today, so its all good.
If it were all good, I wouldn't have made the point that I struggled.
The contributions continue only because I've started so I'll finish.
It has become more difficult. It is not 'all good'.
Again, neither a drama nor a fuss, just a clear and careful response.
Thanks for listening, reviewing and making the change back.
:up:
Jamal switched to the original posts order because Jack Cummins and you made a big drama yesterday
Nope. Read other posts.
You're right. Sound and fury, signifying nothing. I have appreciated your unwavering enthusiasm for this effort.
Thanks, Clarky.
I really like this activity that only has place one time every six months. I am just trying to give my best. It is an opportunity to keep learning in English grammar and imaginative skills.
Or who could do with more...
Nevertheless, the effect Jamal describes does happen and is a repeat of previous literary activities. Only a few stories garner a lot of interaction and that's because people are like sheep.
It does for me.
No it's because some people having left a comment and ticked the box think that's it.
Done and dusted.
No longer interested.
As I said: like sheep. Nothing to see here! :rofl:
No. Individual boredom levels. And those with better things to do.
I note Caldwell is back and doing a good job!
What do you, and others, think would improve levels of interaction? To maintain the creative flow, motivation and help readers improve their understanding of the stories? Before any sensible voting takes place. If voting is still seen as important.
I think that at some stage the writers should feel able to enter the discussion.*
Especially at points of puzzlement and questions asked.
As things stand,there seems to be an unwritten rule that this is not the done thing.
Waiting until the big reveal means that the topic has gone off the boil.
* Difficult to do while still keeping anonymous but there's another creative challenge!
@Baden and current team>> @Noble Dust @hypericin @Caldwell @180 Proof
Not forgetting @Jamal!
I wish I would know how to improve the level of interaction in this activity. I agree with Benkei. Some stories engage a lot of users while others do not have the same interaction and I personally think that this is unfair. I do not pretend to "force" people to like or comment on the stories, but if at least, someone chimes in those, they should pay respects and give a comment.
On the other hand, I feel a little bit sad regarding the poem section. I don't understand why it doesn't get attention when the poems are beautiful and well written (in my opinion). I hope that this trouble will not hesitate on including or not the poems in the next literary activity. :confused:
Some people just don't like poetry. Full stop. For various reasons.
I wonder if more could be done to sell this way of expressing thoughts, feelings and ideas.
Perhaps there needs to be a PR exercise, relating it to poet philosophers or philosophical poets?
I think poetry is not just for Poets, just as philosophy is not just for Philosophers.
We forget the fun and grow more self-conscious. We only listen to certain things.
Perhaps, for those that don't mind the sound of their own voice, we could have audio as well as text?
Here you can hear and read the poem ( audio only 32secs)
https://childrens.poetryarchive.org/poem/meet-at-the-horizon/
I agree with your points, Amity. What I cannot conceive is the fact that some people don't like poetry... Well, I am not anyone to force others to "like" the same art as me. Yet, I think that this activity (because this is what it is, not a contest) goes beyond than just a "hobby."
When this thread is posted (as well as others of different years) is says that "we run a (roughly) biannual creative activity where members can submit literary works to be read and commented upon by other members. Though this all started out as a competition and we retain a polling element that indicates which pieces are most liked, the emphasis now is on participation and sharing."
I think it is clear. The entries deserve a bit of participation or acknowledgement just to respect the effort of the authors. I am not expecting my poem and story to be liked but at least having some feedback. As a non-native speaker this helps a lot in terms of improving the grammar. :smile:
Yes. Perhaps it's because of what and how they were introduced to it at school.
People like to sing a song or hymn but don't see lyrics as poetry.
It might be the very word that puts them off. Just as people don't identify as being a 'philosopher' it doesn't mean they don't have philosophical thoughts or ways of thinking.
I think some are poets, they just don't know it!
I agree. And I have to thank you for dragging me to the Shoutbox and inspiring me to even take part!
You have done so much to keep this alive and well.
If you, or anyone, feel like it's a plod, then perhaps there's been too much pressure on you to comment.
I comment because I enjoy the whole process of interaction with the text, others and writers.
It's not compulsory to leave constructive criticism on each entry.
Even a simple recognition as @javi2541997 suggests.
Better to enjoy and fully participate in a few than chew your way through a dinner of indigestibles.
Well said, Amity :up:
I mean this is not plodding on, but to enjoy an activity which only takes place biannually. I cannot consider reading a poem or story as a "task to do"
I love poetry but (usually) I'm dreadful at it.
:yawn:
I agree. Good idea! :up:
I don't wish to see the threads and contest as a 'plate of indigestibles'. I probably feel a bit of pressure to comment at times, to the point where I have commented too prematurely.
Somehow, for the creative writing activities to remain an important feature, there is probably a need to make it seem interesting and enjoyable above all else. I really enjoy your reviews because they seem to be in the spirit of appreciation of the fun of writing.
:up:
Not just any poll but a new and improved one, yes?!
In principle it is not difficult. Every writer creates a throwaway dummy account. Then they may interact freely with that.
Only for those who choose to do it. For clarity the account can have a conventionalized name, like AUTHOR~My Third Foot Needs a Hand
:up:
Ive enjoyed reading the stories and giving feedback, and the competition/polling element is cool too. I dont have a problem with anything and the whole thing is simple and well organized, just like last time.
Perhaps, our analytical minds are over working and it can get in the way of aesthetic appreciation. It may be asked does philosophy hinder or help in approaching the arts? I am not wishing to be abstract and come with awareness of my own many weaknesses. I see some tension between the arts and philosophy and some potential synthesis, in symbolism and in stories and poetry, as the tension between logos and mythos. Hopefully, such creative writing threads may restore the balance of philosophy towards logos, and how understanding and its construction is so much more complex, dependent on metaphor and the symbolic.
An interesting topic.
I hope that you have a fantastic break after contributing so much in feedback. Breaks are so important, in order to hold onto psychological integrity, which may be essential for genuine respones and criticism. As human beings, we are not mere machines and this may be important for reading of both philosophy and creative writing.
I do see the tension between the creative arts and philosophy as an essential area for thinking. I wonder about this, but I will definitely avoid creating any thread on this until the present contest is over. What I would say though is that I see my own personal search as spanning the dichotomy between philosophical understanding and creative expression.
So what should a new poll measure that the current poll doesn't?
I am not sure that the concepts of 'like' or 'okay' are sufficient on the spectrum. The downvotes may have been ruled out, but like or not or okay may be too binary and other possibilities not considered. I do seriously wonder about scores out of ten, like in some music reviews, although I am not suggesting that all of this is taken too seriously.
Nevertheless, some kind of continuum measurement scoring system may be more of a way of evaluating stories as far as the contest aspect goes. I am certainly struggling to put my thoughts and feelings into a clear divide between likes and okay for voting.
Specific enough?
It may be a lot better to have such categories. I am still inclined towards the numerical scores, as in music magazines, which don't come with specified conceptual ideas of quality. But, your divisions may be helpful in thinking of creative writing on this particular forum; so the three categories are likely to be more helpful as opposed to the present division of likes and okay votes.
How about this mix of objective & subjective assessments?
reply="180 Proof;830411"]
This may be a useful system and possibility for evaluation too, as a basis for thinking about and giving criticism, especially if if is backed up with feedback too. It may enable people to share what works and what doesn't in such a helpful way for the writing process.
Quoting Noble Dust
I agree. :up:
I personally like pretzel sticks, the large ones. I used to eat them a Mannings drugstore after our Boy Scout meetings. $0.01. With mustard. I'd also get a root beer. $0.05. Cherry smashes were $0.10, a little too rich for my budget. Point being, I think all other sorts of pretzels are terrible and shouldn't be allowed. Now let's have a discussion about that.
When I got older, my family moved to Virginia. Down there, after Boy Scout meetings, we'd get cokes and salted peanuts out of the vending machines. You drink the coke down a bit, and then pour the peanuts in to fill the bottle back up. Apparently that's a southern thing.
Soft pretzels are the only real pretzels.
This actually sounds disgusting.
That is a Southern thing. Not sure why people do that. Gordy used to do that. I wonder what he's up to these days.
I was talking about the kind of pretzels you eat, not metaphysical pretzels.
So was I
Kids will eat anything. And once they do, they'll like it for the rest of their lives no matter how terrible it really is.
You never met my kid.
You're right, but I bet they would eat a corn dog.
Yes, he might; he lived exclusively on mac cheese and wieners* in the last year before moving out and I don't recall a problem with corn; it's yellow. Anything green was anathema.
(* Not catered; he was cooking for himself; we kept eating grown-up food.)
Only three days to go! Are you nervous? :cool:
Good to see you back in the 11th hour with your valuable feedback.
For those who aren't aware, @Vera Mont is a prolific, published author. Check her goodreads page here: https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/9759148.Vera_Mont
The commentary is indeed incredibly helpful, insightful, and an honor, thank you Vera!!
Wow! I didn't know that. Kudos to @Vera Mont. I guess it is very difficult to get a book/novel published. I agree with the mates, thanks for your comments on this activity. They are really helpful.
Not if you're married to the publisher! Self-publishing was a natural next step to editing and formatting service, and it's so easy now; much easier and way less hassle than trying to flog manuscripts by unknowns on the mainstream market. Some of you probably have experience with that. We'll never get rich, but what the hay, no time to spend it anyway; can't keep your coin at the end of the line, so waste it on booze and have a good time.
:clap: :cool:
Nonetheless, I wished to get some recognition rather than digits. That's why I say getting published is complex (at least in my personal experience) rather than just selling the copies through Amazon.
When an editorial board decides to publish your work, it seems that they recognise your effort (or "talent") and that's priceless.
That's certainly true if you are going through a publisher, rather than self-publishing (e.g., Blurb.com)
Quoting javi2541997
So did I, 40 years ago, when I was offered a co-publishing deal for my first novel. I turned it down and decided to hold out for a better one, even though my agent at the time warned me how hard it was to get an unknown even considered. The competition was fierce even then, when paper books were printed and sold by more publishers in more bookstores, to more readers, everyone didn't have a word-processor, and research was done in *gasp* red brick Carnegie libraries.
It's not the same for everyone; motivation and aim can vary. Depends partly on age: Are you trying to start a career in some branch of writing? Are you already committed to the career, have responsibilities and need to make a living? Are you old and have no time to wait for professional recognition? Depends on circumstance: Can you afford to stake your livelihood on the writing, or do you need a day job? Are you hagridden by the muse, eager to communicate an idea, or scribbling for your own amusement? And temperament: Can you accommodate demands for alteration and give up control, or do you have a strong sense of what the work should be? Do you want recognition from a profit-oriented executive, your creative peers or an imaginary reader?
I know one author who left a mainstream publisher because he couldn't abide having his work treated as merchandise. He would rather give it away. I also had a client whose first effort would have benefitted greatly from editing and who was willing to pay for the service - and then rejected every suggestions for change. Creative people are sometimes very possessive of their brainchildren, even to the point of foregoing both gain and praise for its integrity, their personal vision. (That's why I gave up editing: I could improve someone else's work, but not without injuring their pride of authorship.)
I need to make a living, and I have a lot of responsibilities. I do not have enough time to focus on a complex project such as writing a novel or book. It is not about professional issues. I do not want to write novels to make a living but to gain respect intellectually. As I said previously, I think it cannot be bought recognition of others. There are a lot of "bestsellers" flowing around, but when you pick one of those is full of mediocrity.
There is a blurred line on what we consider as a "top" novel. For example: Kawabata is one of the writers who inspired me the most. Nevertheless, it is very unknown for the readers, even though he won the Nobel prize in 1968.
I also think that one of the struggles of a writer is the generation that is currently living while you are publishing your works. If they do not have a clue about basic culture, your work will not be appreciated. Many authors got their deserved recognition after decades of being dead...
I think that it was a terrible mistake to allow literature to join market place. Yet, I also understand that this is another respectful way to make a living anyway...
One of the motivations is peer approval. The mass market is not very receptive to complex, intellectual literature, and consequently, neither are most mainstream publishers, since they have to make a living, too. Small presses that specialize in quality literary fiction usually have short print runs and few titles a year. So, if you're accepted by one of those, you get that coveted recognition.
As i said, motivations and aims vary. I just want to have people read my stories... and if it prompts them to think about their own situation, their own vision of the world, so much the better. I don't expect to get any kudos, and I can take the odd negative comment (The most common one has been "nothing happens" and the harshest: "murdering the English language"). It feels pretty good when a reader, just any old reader, not a professional critic, both gets it and likes it, but it's not what I live for.
On the other hand, yes I can perceive the struggle of not getting frustrated by the criticism around the internet. We live in an opened world, in the best and worst, and everybody now can comment whatever in every place. But I personally believe that if the work is good sooner or later will get its recognition (call me a dreamer here if you want :lol: )
I do understand that feeling. I had a short-short story published in a magazine - online, and doesn't pay, but the editor liked it. It's good to be liked by someone who reads a lot. That's why a good review from a fellow writer means so much. OTH, a bad review - and I've had a really bad one - hurts more than it would from the average reader.
Quoting javi2541997
No, they never answer unless your work is in the top three. One reason I haven't entered a contest or submitted anything to a publisher lately is that they want it in 'Submittable' program format and that's way out of my price range. We blow the odd $50 on entry fees, but that's the limit. I don't know whether they read every ms that comes in. These days, every cat and cockroach has access to word processing and grammar checking (Grammarly is an idiot, but it does catch obvious mistakes. The one I make most often is to leave behind a word or wrong tense when editing out unwanted or altered sentences.). Small presses have limited staff to deal with a huge influx of submissions, so I wouldn't be surprised if they decided on the basis of the cover letter or synopsis whether something interests them enough to continue. Many years ago, I submitted short-short stories to a couple of contests, and was among the 'winners'... the catch being that the story would be included in a beautifully bound hardcover anthology, which I was expected to buy. So: vanity press under an alias.
Quoting javi2541997
It's a big club, The Dreamers; all are welcome!
It's almost impossible to write an excellent poem in a short amount of time. Poems are something you micromanage in your writing. One of the hurdles of writing a poem (or any prose) is cacophony -- disharmonious sounds. It takes time to achieve that euphonious composition -- that, to me, is the gift given by a poet to the readers.
My most heartfelt and profound apologies! It's probable your subjects are among those on which I feel unqualified to comment.
Is it ok for us to start complaining about how this whole thing was run now?
Are you the type of guy who asks at the end of the discotheque if it's time to start dancing? :brow:
Feel free to guess the authors while you're waiting :party:
Not certain, but I think I might have written whichever poem had the highest number of votes.
Jack Cummins
Noble Dust
Amity
Baden
Janus
180 Proof
hypericin
Benkei
Outlander
ucarr
javi2541997
Tobias
God Must Be Athiest
Benkei
Noble Dust
T Clark
god must be atheist
Javi2541997
ucarr
Janus
Amity
Baden
180 Proof
They don't know bad poetry either, it seems, even when it stinks up the joint. :smirk:
:grin:
Kudos to all the authors, and especially @Caldwell @Baden @Noble Dust , @hypericin for their commitment to this activity. I had a lot of fun commenting on the stories and sharing my opinions with other users. Until the next December or any time!
Yes. Thank you all. It's been fun. [joke]If I don't win I'll blame you and criticize you harshly.[/joke]
The Tourist might be @Noble Dust, but Im not certain.
Deodorant or The Museum is @Jack Cummins.
Otherwise Im not sure.
Okay, I see... :lol:
Shaun & Quigley is Baden
The Tourist is Noble Dust or Hypericin...
Dead in the Water is Benkei
Red White and blue... Amity?
The Cross over... Jack or Ucarr?
Deodorant... Amity? ... T Clark?
I am curious about sportscar...
Difficult and I am always wrong :)
Poetry I do not dare to go there...
Poem #19 - @180 Proof
This little boy - @Baden
Nope.
Gonna be bad at the poetry guessing, thats for sure. Most of the poems didnt sound like what I was expecting from this crew.
One step ahead of ya mate :razz:
You got me.
Quoting Jamal
:clap:
Authors do what you will I suppose.
Ah!
The Body of Music - @Janus
Saying Nothing - @T Clark
Sunrise - @Benkei
Nailing a Philosopher - @Amity
Protennoia or Sempre - @ucarr
[b]poems:
1st - "this little boy"[/b] (8, 67%)
2nd - "My Dog" (8, 62%)
3rd - "Poem #19" (7, 78%)
[b]stories:
1st - "The Tourist"[/b] (11)
2nd - "Shaun and Quigley" (9, 69%)
3rd - "Duct Tape" (9, 56%)
:clap: Well done! To all the authors and the readers, let's do it again this December.
Congrats to the winners, if were allowed to use that word. :razz:
I wish there was more participation in the polls. The total number of votes matters! The Poem #19 received the highest percentage of upvotes, but it has a smaller number of upvotes and total votes. So, please, members, volunteer your time to read and vote.
Thank you all!
I guess I should have voted for myself.
When do you plan to reopen the submissions so we can respond to comments?
Theres generally an informal author guessing game before you respond to comments on you entry.
You can vote for your own entry! Oh, T Clark!
Quoting T Clark
In 2 to 3 days. Right now, they want to guess-the-author moment. :grin:
Wouldn't have been right.
:cool:
I need to remove the polls before I open them. So, it's so folks can see the results match up. I'll open them as soon as authors have been identified and I've marked them on each story title.
Theoretically, you can, but I think a lot of us probably didn't as it seems odd to vote for oneself. Anyhow, well done again to all for participating. Regardless of the position in voting, I hope the feedback was useful. Some of my favourites were not all that popular in the polling but that doesn't affect my judgement of them.
If you get bored, you can just tell everyone. I can't figure you out btw. So, how about I guess wrong and then you tell me the right answer. So (taking into account what you wrote above) "The Museum".
Another haiku then since everyone is a fan:
Dear friend
A sparrow falling
Busy street oblivious
but I will miss you
:wink:
The beauty of ephemeral nature. Kobayashi Issa was one of the best haiku poets for mixing up "death" and "life" each season of the year. Here goes one that I always love to reread.
[i]the neighbor expresses
his condolences...
late-blooming cherry tree.[/i]
Ah, extremely poetic man... I am so sensitive with these Japanese stuff.
Oh, really! I hadn't been gonna participate but here's what I got so far: (updated)
Jack Cummins - Deodorant * (verified - V )
Noble Dust - The Sports Car
Amity - Red, White and Blue * (V)
Baden - Shaun and Quigley * (V)
Janus - No, Dave...
180 Proof - Duct Tape *
hypericin - The Tourist *
Benkei - Dead In The Water * (V)
Outlander - The Crossover
ucarr - The Falconer
javi2541997 - The Last Leaf of My Cherry Tree *
Tobias - The Museum *
god must be atheist - The Life of Jesus...
* high degree of confidence!
Well done to all!
Benkei -[s]Nailing a Philosopher [/s]* Sunrise ( verified by @Benkei)
Noble Dust - Protennoia
T Clark - The Body of Music
god must be atheist - Nailing a Philosopher
javi2541997 - My dog * @javi2541997 - Bash? (verified!)
ucarr - Saying Nothing
Janus - Poem #19
Amity - Sempre * (verified, correct guess by @javi2541997 )
Baden - Sunday Creep * ( already informed us)
180 Proof - this little boy *
* high degree of confidence! (Hah!)
Well done to all!
Nailing a Philosopher - @god must be atheist
The Body of Music - @Noble Dust
Protennoia - @Baden
Sempre - @Amity
Poem #19 - @T Clark
Sunday Creep - @Benkei
this little boy - @180 Proof
My dog - Bash?
Sunrise - @Janus
Saying Nothing - @ucarr
Correct.
Correct.
Don't be shy Benkei et al.
After a guess or 2, please come clean! And get the torture over with...before Christmas...
I am very interested that you wrote 'Sempre' after discussion we had. I will continue, but wait until the thread is reopen again so that it doesn't get lost here and others can partake.
You were also right about me having written 'Deodorant' and suspect that you guessed this right from the beginning. I almost made my character try to ring his mother on a mobile phone, but that would have been a giveaway, especially if the battery ran out.
I hope that people identify the authors fairly soon, so that the threads can be open again before the momentum gets lost.
Yes, of course! Who else?
Quoting Jack Cummins
Indeed. Or that they identify themselves.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Thank you.
f I'll try, but if it's Dead in the Water, I have to stick to technical critique. I don't mind dark subject matter, but I have a couple of severe allergies: at the first whiff of a zombie or sadist, I run the other way.
:smile: It seems you have an allergy to Red, White and Blue too!
You did very well to give excellent comments on the majority of the submissions in a matter of days.
However, I admit to surprise and some disappointment when I read of you leaving out 3 or 4.
As far as I can recall, it was either because of subject matter or the first paragraph didn't grab you.
I'd like to say, "Fair enough!" but I'd be lying...I've so enjoyed our discussions.
[s]Like @Benkei, some constructive criticism would be appreciated, if you can bear it.
Thanks.[/s]
Actually, scratch that.
If it really isn't to your taste, then force-feeding and projectile vomit is the last thing I want.
Take care!
Fair enough! My poem Sunrise doesn't hit any allergy, I think, and I have good and fair comments on my short story Dead in the Water. People raised issues that I was actually afraid of when submitting it because it was rushed. The poem had quite a few detractors going by votes but it's a shame those who didn't upvote it, didn't explain why. Only Noble Dust mentioned having a thing against inline rhyming which I can understand as a matter of taste.
No - I started reading it with alacrity, but after about three paragraphs, I just didn't understand it. Similar problem with the poem: I have no frame of reference for the last line. I suspect you're too complex for my linear mind.
There is also a cultural component; I don't always know the language. In the much praised Shaun and Quigley story, I didn't get the context or half the words. I'malike Huh?
Quoting Benkei
No, I liked that one. Maybe a tad longer than it really needs to be, and is a bit heavy on the colours? When it opens for comments, I'll dive deeper.
But I couldn't give fair consideration to the poems, mainly because I never got to them till the very last day, but partly, too, because I don't have much confidence in my judgment of poetry, which is why I left them till after I'd read all the stories.
Appreciate the feedback.
It's a brain-processing thing. Mine is scrambled!
You did extraordinarily, exceptionally, exceedingly well in the few days you had.
I could never have done that. No way, no how. So thank you again...and again!
Nope!
:up:
Thanks. List updated:
Quoting Amity
So, @Noble Dust - you wrote:
No, Dave, The Falconer or [s]The Crossover[/s]... is that right?
And now that means...The Sports Car was written by either @Janus @Outlander
I think...
Correct. :smile:
Woah youre taking quite the deductive approach. I cant argue.
If readers give up guessing and authors never verify...the game must come to an end soon.
Hey, not so quick you two. How about you respond to the guesses, huh?
Or we'll still be here come New Year...
Quoting Tobias
Same for you! There have been 2 educated guesses. Time to come clean, no?
Quoting Amity
ucarr wrote (poem) The Body of Music; (short story) The Crossover
There are still plenty of authors who havent weighed in because theyre not online at the moment. Patience
OK. Mr Dave or the Falconer...
So the poem 'Protennoia' is yours, then?
Update:
Quoting Amity
Guess! Thats the point!
Yes.
Excellent!
There's a building consensus about these being the authors of the above works. If we're correct, it's a good thing for the authors as it indicates a distinctive voice on each of their parts.
If I'm not mistaken, a distinctive voice is what motivates the public to buy books. I think art is rooted in presence. I'm drawn to a particular work because I want to be in the presence of a unique individual whose proximity packs a wallop. After being in proximity of such an individual, a portion of their individuality becomes a part of me, and thus the person stays on my mind.
Baden - The frisson of lived, ethnic experience down in the trenches of the aspiring poor, with some of the fantasia and fuzzy logic of Samuel Beckett, the Frenchified Irishman.
180 Proof - Authentic, hard-boiled street smarts parfaited with a fringe of university on top. It's Raymond Chandler at Oxford.
And now, amongst us, a new, literary voice: Amity!
Amity - With a Joycean grandeur of playful imagination, she, like the Dubliner, reincarnates the bawdy repartee and public jibes of Falstaff. These, however, are but the outer layers as, underneath, lie existential truths worthy of deep cogitation.
I have completed the poem list to my satisfaction. Thanks for all help!
OMG, ucarr - you are the very limit! Killing myself laughing here. But really appreciate your words!
:clap: :clap: In my top two. Look forward to hearing more about it.
Noice. Love me Beckett :cool:
Thank you for writing it!
Thank you for having me! Did that come out right...hmmm...
Em...thanks to you and all the team and everybody else and so on...and so forth...
:lol: You're welcome!
OK. The Falconer.
Correctamundo.
dingdingding!
Ding Dong!
Quoting Amity
Va bene! Ciao cool cat.
@hypericin Congrats on the win. :party:
Yours was one of my favorites. Looking forward to hearing more from you about it.
Kinda bummed I knew all authors going in as I wonder if Id have pegged @hypericin for The Tourist as well. Hes been slippery in the past.
Dude is a master of styleguise.
High degree of confidence. :strong:
Quoting Baden
Thanks!
Quoting Noble Dust
Quoting Baden
I do try to do something different every time. Keeps things interesting. I don't want to start repeating myself.
:up:
Quoting Vera Mont
:chin:
I thought The Tourist had a Hanoverian quality to it, though much of the style was different, like the usage of the ant metaphor and other interesting bits like He gurgled and thrashed, but his struggle felt somehow perfunctory, self-consciously meeting the expectation of how a strangled man ought to behave. Why someone would spontaneously perform their death excites the imagination and is oddly aesthetic.
It's funny. I thought it would be obvious to people it was mine.
Thanks! :victory:
Quoting praxis
I admit I was quite happy with that line, glad you noticed it
@180 Proof or @Baden can answer this.
Quoting Baden
I suppose we can say, there's nothing in the system that prevents the participants from upvoting their entries. As an analogy, the last time I checked, you vote for yourself -- not for the other candidates -- during a job interview (you're the best one for the job). Does this comparison work?
Edit: I'd say upvote your own submission.
In what job interview are you given a vote on the best candidate?
It's sarcasm.
I can't read your sarcasm dammit! :lol:
I know, sorry.
But I mean what I said -- upvote your own submission if you believe in your work.
:chin: Not sure how I feel about this. If I didn't believe in my work I wouldn't submit it. That does't mean I get to cast a vote for my own work against other submissions.
Oh let's talk about this!
Seems kinda pathetic. I mean, what do you win?
Ok, shoot.
First of all, casting your own vote to your own submission is not casting against others -- since you can upvote all of them, too. Nothing is preventing you from upvoting all of the entries.
Quoting Noble Dust
That's a catch 22. You submitted something because you believe that's it's good (or execellent -- doesn't matter). Yet, if I asked you "how would you rate your work?" or "would you upvote your work?" then you say...?
It doesn't seem right for me to do it, but that's personal. I'm not proposing that others shouldn't. It's not a big deal. When I'm up for the Pulitzer Prize, I'm definitely voting for myself.
Actually, if we do poetry again, I propose we dispense with voting. It just clutters up the process. I'm more interested in hearing what people have to say.
Bravo!
Quoting T Clark
Yes!
I hope nothing I've written is construed as criticism of you. I really appreciate how you've run the process.
Not at all! Noble Dust and I agreed to talk about the self-upvote.
So we're now "up" voting and "down" voting? :razz:
Quoting Caldwell
Very different answers. How I would rate my work would depend more on how it squares against my other works. Whether I would "upvote" :razz: my work depends on...how we define the voting system...
Also, the thing preventing me from "upvoting" all of the entries is that some are better than others.
To be clear, I dont understand how to correctly vote in a way that reflects my evaluation of the work. For instance, in this competition I voted for the entries that I liked and didnt vote at all for the entries that I disliked. I suppose its possible that I would have felt that some of the entries were okay but that didnt happen in this round. Should I have marked the entries that I disliked as okay?
Its not that I feel my vote is important. Its that I want your system to work as well as possible and it isnt clear if I voted in the best way to facilitate that.
Same here.
Quoting praxis
I didn't know what that meant at the time either.
Quoting praxis
We are changing it next time. @Janus suggested a rating system using numbers. That might be the case next time. If you have a suggestion please post it here. Thanks.
Quoting Noble Dust
Of course! And yours should be treated similarly and not have a double standard.
Agreed. I think.
My dog got the second position in the poems. What a lovely memory of my Boxer dog. His name was olmo (Elm). Thanks to all who voted and commented.
As soon as Baden opens up the threads again, we could exchange views and explain more deeply why we wrote the story or the poem. I also received good feedback on "The last leaf of my cherry tree", which is surprising because I am aware it is poorly written (well, most of you realised that it needs proofreading!)
Quoting ucarr
Quoting Jack Cummins
Quoting Amity
Quoting javi2541997
Quoting Tobias
Quoting Benkei
Yes, yes! Thanks to you all for reading me well enough to recognize my scribbles. When the threads are unlocked, I'll directly respond to your comments (though maybe not as quickly as I'd like since I'm traveling this week).
Looking back at the results:
Quoting 180 Proof
Coming first in poems, third in stories, didn't you do well!
In fact, some might say you are the overall winner...
Many Congratulations!!
@Jack Cummins suggested something similar a few times now.
The voting system has been discussed ad nauseam; the advice was given to move on and forget about it. The attention quite rightly turned to the main focus - the stories and poems. But still, questions persist. This issue won't go away.
I agree it needs to be improved before the next time, for all the reasons given.
Otherwise, we go through the same old arguments and it detracts from the enjoyment.
Good Luck with that!
Quoting Amity
Winners!
Quoting 180 Proof
Congratulations to all!
Quoting Amity
[ some still to be verified ]
Winners!
1st - "The Tourist" (11) - @hypericin"
2nd - "Shaun and Quigley" (9, 69%) - @Baden
3rd - "Duct Tape" (9, 56%) - @180 Proof
Congratulations to all!
Thanks Amity :up:
I think since the voting system arguments took place.
He made some good points about ambiguity issues. Shame it all got so heated.
Hope all is well. Please take care!
Look forward to further conversations about haiku!
I'm pleased that you're interested in haiku. I will try to express myself and explain it the best I can. :smile:
And well done @180 Proof!
:cool:
Thank you, Baden :up:
No worries. I might be unavailable later and I don't know when the remaining few authors will show up to confirm, so feel free to dive in.
Didnt realize that I was beating a dead horse. Sorry bout that. :zip:
It's not a dead horse, though... please unzip your mouth forthwith!
No need to apologise. Like I said, it needs sorting out.
Quoting Amity
Suggestions aplenty have been made over the years! No different this time round. We've had arguments/discussions at the start, in the middle and at the end.
Right now, I think it's time to celebrate and congratulate the team on what they got right!
Even if the quantitative voting system is rubbish, it still seems to agree with the qualitative comments.
The issue could do with a proper thrashing out by the team first. They know what the software will allow. Then take it to the readers/writers...before the next event starts. Or...
Perhaps in a separate Literary Activities - 'Reflections' thread...
Or even use what is already in place: the 'Feedback' section. Worth a thought?
All the better to see suggestions, past, present and future.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/categories/15/feedback
I don't know.
For now, I say, "Let's Party! Unzip and be merry. Cheers!"
Well, I kinda stepped into @Noble Dust's usual tick list. Glad it helped keep things on track.
But I can't help feeling that in my eagerness to get the guessing game over and done with, I denied other participants the fun of it all. Sorry 'bout that...
I thought that @180 Proof suggested that it should take a day. Perhaps I got that wrong.
[Another question to join the Event 'Feedback' section?]
Sorry, to break this to ya' but it spoke to me twice.
First, as a much appreciated contemplative piece. Silence.
Later, when I tried to listen and respond to particular aspects.
Very well done!
I did actually read the story though.
Lol, thanks! All stories and poems now open!
I have no problem with that - just don't scare the horses.
Congratulations, javi. So it was a boxer! Good job.
No. The Last Leaf was beautifully written. I had no idea you wrote it. But I'm keeping my comment even if it was you. :sweat:
With Dead in the Water criticism were clear and fair and then the score doesn't even mean anything to me because I have feedback I can work with. :up:
Man, I don't know what your experience is like in the creative arts, but you should be shaking my hand, not complaining. What I mean is, you should expect to get fucked in the butt, so to speak, with your creative endeavors. When you don't, you should probably be skeptical. If you really want to subject your work to real criticism, prepare to have your ass destroyed. Seriously.
:smile:
Caldwell, thank you! I am grateful for your honesty and interest in my writings.
For me, the solution is to have no voting, just comments and discussion. Maybe no one would participate if we did that.
Quoting Noble Dust
I'm not afraid of criticism of the stuff I write - poetry, philosophy, or anything else. If I didn't think it was good, that it held together, I wouldn't post it. I'm no Rod McKuen, but I know when what I write has substance and value.
[For those who don't know, Rod McKuen was a crap new agey poet back in the 60s and 70s, although he was more kindly thought of as a songwriter.]
Benk, I'm also devastated that Sunrise got 50%. It was a beautiful, well-written poem. :broken:
I hope there's more planning in voting next time.
If we were not able to vote, your beautiful poem wouldn't have had the recognition it deserves, Clarky. :up:
I don't like it being a competition. As I noted, I'm interested in people's thoughts, not their votes.
More than competition, I think it's recognition.
:100:
I understand you like the voting, and that's fine, but I really don't.
I realize that providing more options would make tabulating the votes more complicated, and I don't wish that on the invigilators.