Red, White and Blue by Amity

Noble Dust August 06, 2023 at 02:36 925 views 101 comments
This is it. Flying high, he looked down at his land and people. Harvest time. Taxing trouble and toil. Merry Olde England.

Then in the blink of an eye, or the peck of a beak, his world turned upside down. Falling, flailing, failing. What the actual dickens?

Nadar, the epitome of a handsome, spoiled brat Prince lay on his bed. Not just any bed. A polished and plush 4-poster bed. Regally trimmed. Canopied and caged for a night in white satin.

His parents put him there, helped by goodly, goblin Gyvlak who cast a comatising spell, custom-built. Anxious they were, as the commoners cupped and supped their country ale. Penny-a-pint plotters. Philandering princes not welcome. Slumber long and deep in moody blues.

Maid Marianne held her nose and took the money. She could do this. Keep the prince cool, calm and comfy for as long as. What could possibly go wrong? Nadar tossed and turned in sudden fever.
Hell’s Bells!

Nymphy Netja, congratulated herself on a job well done. The Gobby One was not gonna win this time! There would be no peace for the wicked.

The Prince was and wasn’t having a ball.
Throwing one was all for the good. Sycophants danced around. Beauties, artists, actors, acrobats, uglies. Masked for mutual benefits.
Now blinded by the brightness of a beguiling someone or other. A dazzling debutante, no doubt decked out and draped by a fairy godmother if he was not mistaken. Been there, done that. But this, this was different. Nadar was instantly smitten; bewitched, bothered and bewildered.

A magical seduction. Observed only by the masked maid Marianne who had plans of her own for the prince. Doing the rounds, serving drinks. Something wasn’t right.

She followed them through the door. Deep in a dark stairwell, Nadar was pinned against the wall by the winsome beauty. Slender yet strangely tall and strong. Sucking, stroking and stoking the fire of desire.
Growing full and hard, his staff thrust its way through the layered lace and silk of an open-fronted gown. Below it, the prince bucked and recoiled, aroused and wakened to his plight. This could not be. His Royal Highness was being taken by a…a…He! Sucker-punched and gasping he fell to the ground.

Marianne weighed in. The heavy, silver tray crashed down on the attacker’s skull. She hauled Nadar to his feet. Eyes interlocked. Amber meets emerald. Aye, aye.
Contact and connection.

Is she…he, it, the…Other…dead?
No, but that’s not a very good look, is it?
Let’s get rid
And so they did.
The Prince turned to thank Marianne, to raise her hand to his lips, maybe more but…

Marianne cried out in pain. Birthing death, blood and tears. Married by ritual, forced against her will, aged thirteen. A newborn. Killed and still. So young and far away.

Frustrated in his prison, Prince Nadar’s heart pounded dangerously. Netja smiled at the silent scream. Thanks, Gyvlak! You know not what you do. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


Meanwhile, Marianne kept her cool and the prince alive with medication, massage and urine bags. Not exactly sex, drugs, and rock’n’roll but one can dream.

The resurrected Other enters by a back passage.
To finish the job, to capture royalty and their downfall. Click, click, clickety, click.

Marianne spins around mid pee-pouch change. What the…?
The Other catches her. He cajoles and declares his love for the prince. He’s here to help. Nafar needs us both.
How?
The magical power of red, white on blue.

One hand rubs his bulging, velvet codpiece, the other reaches out to a bemused Marianne. What kind of blood, from where? Menstrual? He sniffs the air. No, not that time of the month. Fingertips? Nah, you don’t know where they’ve been.
Time to wake up and smell the roses… and semen, Marianne.

The thorns prick her soft, sensuous lips and tongue. Red rivulets drip down her chin. To the golden cup. So damned appealing. Mad with desire, the Other forgets his mission. He circles and chases the scent of Marianne. Gnashing teeth, growling, tearing and biting. Marianne screams as she fights. Holy fuckin’ fuck!

Prince Nadar ripped from his nightmare can’t do a bloody thing as he watches the pair fight for dominion. Must eat something. Grabs a banana and slurps milk.
Blue blood will out. Gyvlak waves to Netja. Final bout.

The Other looks up as the goblet of red sails through the air.
He howls at the splash in the eyes, his mouth opens in horror.
Wide enough to catch pure gold. The mid-flight spillage of a burst pee bag. It works like a charm, every time.
So, the reborn, heroic prince wins the day, as does the good.
Or so the story goes.

The Other sweats, sobs and shakes in the foetal position.. Germophobia not good. Time to wrap up and warp out.
He holds on to the spool. He is brave. He will save the Universe. All air balloons have been banned. No more human flights of fancy. No space travel. No interplanetary regencies and war. The peasants are seeded. A new harvest to be reaped under full moon II. Vive La Revolution!

If only he knew…the Red, White and Blue.

Comments (101)

javi2541997 August 06, 2023 at 16:00 #827582
Good story. It is well written and I enjoyed all the paragraphs. I think the plot is clear and it is easy to follow it. Congratulations to the author.
It was such a meditative reading experience for me, a chance to learn about new methods. It has passion and consistency.
Benkei August 07, 2023 at 06:01 #827774
It's okay. The disgusting disgusted me, which is good. Make me vomit on the morning, that means your descriptions are spot on (and no, it wasn't because she turned out to be a he). Not everything happening was clear to me and reading it twice I concluded it wasn't me. Too many alliterations for my taste as well, which in any case loses consistency over time (for the better in my view).
Tobias August 07, 2023 at 11:28 #827891
Quoting javi2541997
Good story. It is well written and I enjoyed all the paragraphs. I think the plot is clear and it is easy to follow it. Congratulations to the author


The plot is clear? I have no idea what is going on... except for the glittering of references, nights in white satin, moody blues, hell being paced, the virgin Marianne, Hell's bells. I do think no peace for the wicked should be no rest for the wicked.
Baden August 07, 2023 at 20:22 #828086
Very nicely written. The galloping carefree rhythm and weird fairytale allusions remind me of Coover. Also, how could I say no to a burst piss bag. :party:

Well done. Enjoyed. :up:
Tobias August 07, 2023 at 20:45 #828091
Quoting Baden
Very nicely written. The galloping carefree rhythm and weird fairytale allusions remind me of Coover. Also, how could I say no to a burst piss bag. :party:


Yeah, the story very much reminded me of your entry last year or the year before that. I kinda wish writers would keep their piss bags to themselves... :rofl:
Baden August 07, 2023 at 20:46 #828092
Tobias August 07, 2023 at 21:15 #828094
Quoting Baden
Very nicely written. The galloping carefree rhythm and weird fairytale allusions remind me of Coover. Also, how could I say no to a burst piss bag


Maybe you can help me... I have reread it and for the life of me I do not get it. The plot though should be clear for Javi at least. I do not understand. The prince is first under a comatose spell, but then suddenly he is out and about being seduced by a winsome beauty. How does he get there and who is Netja? The beauty, possibly. Then he gets a pee bag in his face and indeed I find myself thinking "Not again!", without even knowing what it is about! I do need some enlightenment in the world. It is either yours or Benkei's this one.
Baden August 07, 2023 at 21:34 #828097
Reply to Tobias

I said that I enjoyed it not that I understood it :wink: . I'd have to read it over to get a proper grasp of the plot. But it's proper writing in my estimation, unselfconscious and free, which I appreciate as an experience. Most writers, especially beginners, write through a kind of a filter of something else they read and it always looks like there's a better writer in the background trying to break through. But it's not them. So they never get going. Never get a proper rhythm. It's always kind of stop start.

When you get beyond that anything can happen but no matter what it is it's almost always better than being cloaked by your influences. This writer has confidence and a certain flair that I can happily absorb without worrying too much about the details of the narrative. ... If that makes sense.
180 Proof August 07, 2023 at 21:44 #828100
Quoting Baden
... it's proper writing in my estimation, unselfconscious and free ... This writer has confidence and a certain flair that I can happily absorb without worrying too much about the details of the narrative. ...

:100: :up:
Benkei August 07, 2023 at 21:52 #828104
Reply to Baden I think I have more panache than flair.
Tobias August 07, 2023 at 21:55 #828106
Quoting Benkei
Baden I think I have more panache than flair.


It is you isn't it? There is still a lot of rum left, but I better go to sleep. To all writers with flair and panache! :sparkle:
Baden August 08, 2023 at 13:14 #828308
Quoting Benkei
I think I have more panache than flair


I read that as "I think I have more pancakes than hair", which is plausible.
Jack Cummins August 08, 2023 at 13:36 #828316
It's rather unusual, like a fairy tale with sexuality. The characters are well described and with memorable, distinct names. I found that it took me into an alternative universe, with enough intrigue and suspense. If it was a longer piece I would be willing to continue reading it, so I think that it has scope for further development of the characters and the storyline into a longer piece of writing as well.
Noble Dust August 08, 2023 at 17:48 #828368
Reply to Baden

How would you measure that exactly? Seems tricky.
hypericin August 08, 2023 at 19:58 #828404
While clearly not for everyone, I enjoyed it. What I liked best was the sense of limitless, unbounded creativity, and the transgression of the fairytale form. @Baden said it better than I can. I didn't quite grasp the plot beyond its outline, @javi2541997 is no doubt the more astute reader, but ultimately I think that is not the point.

That said, it feels raw, rushed, confused, and unpolished. With some refinement I think the author can be a very good comedic fantasy writer.

Baden August 08, 2023 at 20:34 #828412
Reply to Noble Dust

Yes, it's kind of like "I have more water than pencils".
180 Proof August 08, 2023 at 21:44 #828419
Quoting hypericin
What I liked best was the sense of limitless, unbounded creativity, and the transgression of the fairytale form.

:cool: :up: "I enjoyed it"!
Amity August 09, 2023 at 08:27 #828583
Quoting Tobias
Maybe you can help me... I have reread it and for the life of me I do not get it. The plot though should be clear for Javi at least. I do not understand.


Quoting hypericin
That said, it feels raw, rushed, confused, and unpolished


Yes. I've read this weird fairytale a few times now. The transition points aren't clear. It is confusing.
Perhaps @javi2541997 or someone who even half 'gets it' can help show the way:

Quoting javi2541997
I think the plot is clear and it is easy to follow it. Congratulations to the author.
It was such a meditative reading experience for me, a chance to learn about new methods. It has passion and consistency.


A lovely comment but what 'new methods' are you talking about?
We're all here for constructive criticism. How could this story be improved?


javi2541997 August 09, 2023 at 08:39 #828585
Reply to Amity

I would sound weird, but I tend to love twisted plots or stories. I liked this one in particular because the author is intelligent enough to put a lot of characteristics and situations without a clear "path" to follow. But this is not necessarily something bad, at least for me it is something interesting.

I do not know what should be improved... Maybe the title? :snicker:
Amity August 09, 2023 at 13:41 #828653
Quoting javi2541997
I would sound weird, but I tend to love twisted plots or stories.


So, you didn't get tied in knots then. And you don't worry about being lost.
That doesn't sound so very weird to me :up:

But you still didn't answer my question:
Quoting javi2541997
a chance to learn about new methods


Quoting Amity
what 'new methods' are you talking about?


***

Quoting javi2541997
I do not know what should be improved... Maybe the title?


You don't like the colour scheme? :scream:



javi2541997 August 09, 2023 at 14:11 #828662
Quoting Amity
But you still didn't answer my question:


For example: I never try fantastic plots or connections between different characters. I feel more confident when I write narratives in first person of the singular and the plot is related to the sophistication of nature and melancholy.
For me the first examples are “methods” but it is just my view, I guess.

Quoting Amity
You don't like the colour scheme?


It is the flag of France! I do not see any special on it...
Amity August 09, 2023 at 16:21 #828719
Quoting javi2541997
For example: I never try fantastic plots or connections between different characters. I feel more confident when I write narratives in first person of the singular and the plot is related to the sophistication of nature and melancholy.
For me the first examples are “methods” but it is just my view, I guess.


Ah, OK. I understand now. It's a different kind of story with mixed, interconnected perspectives.
Quoting javi2541997
It is the flag of France! I do not see any special on it...


Do you know how many flags are red, white and blue? 30.
Anyway, the colours also relate to other...em...concepts, substances...
Enough to say, that your special flag - red and yellow - wouldn't fit the UK setting, sorry!

I think the problem with this story is that logical connections are missing. There are no clear directions for how to piece the fragments together in a rational way.

But then again, isn't this all part of a dream world landscape? When you have dreams, do you know where they are taking you to? There's a kaleidoscope of time, place and people.
So, follow the dream or nightmare. Who does it belong to...





Tobias August 09, 2023 at 16:23 #828722
Red white and blue is also the Dutch flag by the way. Perhaps another layer by the author...
Amity August 09, 2023 at 16:26 #828727
Quoting Tobias
Red white and blue is also the Dutch flag by the way. Perhaps another layer by the author...


I didn't know that. But what's the Dutch connection to the story?
Other than you think it is double Dutch? Or written by a Dutchman?

Oh, aren't you Dutch? Hmmm...

javi2541997 August 09, 2023 at 16:42 #828733
Quoting Amity
Do you know how many flags are red, white and blue? 30.


I know but the author wrote in the foot page (at the ending): Vive La Revolution! This is why I thought that the author was thinking in France.

Quoting Amity
Enough to say, that your special flag - red and yellow - wouldn't fit the UK setting, sorry!


I do not understand you now, Amity. Because my special flag is Castile’s not the Spanish one. :grin:

User image

Quoting Amity
But then again, isn't this all part of a dream world landscape? When you have dreams, do you know where they are taking you to? There's a kaleidoscope of time, place and people.
So, follow the dream or nightmare. Who does it belong to...


I agree in your opinion or view. It is difficult to know where the dreams connect us to. But that's one of the most interesting aspects of our life and perception!
javi2541997 August 09, 2023 at 16:46 #828734
Reply to Tobias I agree, it is another connection. Yet the motto “Vive La Revolution!” comes unmistakably from France.
Amity August 09, 2023 at 16:50 #828735
Quoting javi2541997
I know but the author wrote in the foot page (at the ending): Vive La Revolution! This is why I thought that the author was thinking in France.


Oh God, I've had to go look again. I'm getting a severe headache. Thanks very much :groan:
This is what was written:
Quoting Noble Dust
The Other sweats, sobs and shakes in the foetal position.. Germophobia not good. Time to wrap up and warp out.
He holds on to the spool. He is brave. He will save the Universe. All air balloons have been banned. No more human flights of fancy. No space travel. No interplanetary regencies and war. The peasants are seeded. A new harvest to be reaped under full moon II. Vive La Revolution!

If only he knew…the Red, White and Blue.


It seems to be The Other, who is seeding thoughts in the peasants so that a revolution takes place.
The Other says "Time to wrap up and warp out".
Is he an alien time traveller, hoping to change the power system in the future...? Hmm.



Amity August 09, 2023 at 16:51 #828736
Quoting javi2541997
Because my special flag is Castile’s not the Spanish one


Ooops, sorry. Massive blunder :yikes:
Forgive me? :pray:
Amity August 09, 2023 at 16:52 #828737
Quoting javi2541997
I agree, it is another connection.


How so?
javi2541997 August 09, 2023 at 17:02 #828747
Quoting Amity
Ooops, sorry. Massive blunder :yikes:
Forgive me?


Nah! Never mind! Just another weird fact from Spain! We are divided by seventeen autonomous regions and we are more attached to them than the country itself.

Quoting Amity
How so?


Applying your theory of different flags with those patterns of colors!
Amity August 09, 2023 at 17:04 #828748
Quoting javi2541997
Applying your theory of different flags with those patterns of colors!


Given there is a colour connection to 30 countries, why focus on the Dutch?
Amity August 09, 2023 at 17:04 #828749
Quoting javi2541997
Just another weird fact from Spain! We are divided by seventeen autonomous regions and we are more attached to them than the country itself.


Good to know!
Jamal August 09, 2023 at 17:18 #828753
Quoting javi2541997
Just another weird fact from Spain! We are divided by seventeen autonomous regions and we are more attached to them than the country itself.


I question this. When I'm in Spain I see houses and apartments with the Spanish flag flying, very rarely the regional flags.

Off-topic I know.
javi2541997 August 09, 2023 at 17:38 #828757
Quoting Amity
why focus on the Dutch?


I was not focusing on the Dutch! :rofl:

Reply to Jamal Yes, in houses and apartments is more common to see the Spanish flag. Nevertheless, in the public buildings the regional flag is even above of the Spain’s. I remember that you were in Valencia. I guess you perceived an important ratio of regionalism there. Their coat of arms is Jaume the first and not the Bourbon, for example. Maybe you remember that in the most significant buildings of Valencia, there was just the Valencian region flag. This also happens in every province. In Catalonia and Basque Country this practice is even more usual.

Amity August 09, 2023 at 18:00 #828765
Reply to javi2541997
This is becoming quite absurd. We're going way off-topic.
But this is a reminder of the conversation:

Quoting Tobias
Red white and blue is also the Dutch flag by the way. Perhaps another layer by the author...


Quoting javi2541997
?Tobias I agree, it is another connection.


Quoting Amity
How so?


[...]

Quoting javi2541997
I was not focusing on the Dutch!


You agreed with @Tobias that there was a Dutch connection.

Can we bury the flag thing now, please? :pray:
javi2541997 August 09, 2023 at 18:08 #828769
Quoting Amity
Can we bury the flag thing now, please?


Ok! I went off the topic. I am sorry, folks :smile:
Benkei August 09, 2023 at 18:15 #828772
Reply to Amity Burying flags may be a crime in the jurisdiction where you're residing. Please get advice from a local lawyer before committing to such an act.
Jamal August 09, 2023 at 18:19 #828773
Reply to javi2541997 Yes, but the fact is that—

Quoting Amity
Can we bury the flag thing now, please?


Ah, ok.
Tobias August 09, 2023 at 18:26 #828775
Quoting Amity
Can we bury the flag thing now, please? :pray:


The Dutch connection I am thinking of is Benkei having written the story... But it is funny that, if you follow the rabbit hole all the way down, you will find the Dutch. Peeved the British to no end.

However, I think someone pointing out that the author also referenced 'vive la revolution' among all the other references, has somewhat of a point. It is probably the other tricolore...
Benkei August 09, 2023 at 18:38 #828784
Reply to Tobias Royal blue... :wink:
Amity August 09, 2023 at 18:41 #828787
Tobias August 09, 2023 at 18:47 #828789
Quoting Benkei
Tobias Royal blue... :wink:


I know it! It is all about the KLM! I should have known from the first sentence! It was flying high above England upsetting British Airways who thought they were masters of the sky. It has now been bought by the French, hence 'Vive la revolution' and its in flight personnel all look like promiscuous goblins!

Ohhh sorry Amity, I will behave from now on... :zip: I will delete this post after half and hour ok? (Otherwise I might also be sued by the KLM)
Benkei August 09, 2023 at 18:48 #828791
Reply to Amity What? I'm not talking about flags! Plus, you don't get to complain about your faux pas in the other thread! I'm still hurling from that one.
Amity August 09, 2023 at 18:54 #828796
Quoting Tobias
It is all about the KLM! I should have known from the first sentence! It was flying high above England upsetting British Airways who thought they were masters of the sky. It has now been bought by the French, hence 'Vive la revolution' and its in flight personnel all look like promiscuous goblins!


By George, I think he's got it!

Amity August 09, 2023 at 19:04 #828803
Quoting Benkei
What? I'm not talking about flags!


Oh, that! Yes, that was all the work of The Other. :wink:

Quoting Benkei
Plus, you don't get to complain about your faux pas in the other thread! I'm still hurling from that one.


Yeah, you poor sensitive soul. You adore being disgusted:

Quoting Benkei
The disgusting disgusted me, which is good. Make me vomit on the morning, that means your descriptions are spot on




Benkei August 09, 2023 at 19:10 #828808
Reply to Amity I don't adore it, I can appreciate the literary accomplishment of making me wince due to well crafted writing. Cheap thrills like yours don't count. It's the difference between the start of saving private Ryan and a snuff movie.
Amity August 09, 2023 at 19:12 #828811
Quoting Benkei
Cheap thrills like yours don't count. It's the difference between the start of saving private Ryan and a snuff movie.


What cheap thrill?
Benkei August 09, 2023 at 19:15 #828812
Reply to Amity No need to repeat your obscenities I'm sure. :razz:
Amity August 09, 2023 at 19:17 #828813
Reply to Benkei
There was no cheap thrill. You know it :brow:
Benkei August 09, 2023 at 19:18 #828816
Reply to Amity It's called an analogy, lady!
Amity August 09, 2023 at 19:23 #828820
Quoting Benkei
It's called an analogy, lady!


You need to stop this right here, right now.
Unless you point to where I made 'obscenities' which sickened you as in the alleged:

Quoting Benkei
faux pas in the other thread! I'm still hurling from that one.


Perhaps best to return to that one. So I can correct any misinterpretation.
See update in 'The Sports Car'.

***
Can we now please return to this story?

Quoting Benkei
I can appreciate the literary accomplishment of making me wince due to well crafted writing.


Are you talking about the writing here? If so, excellent :up:
Benkei August 09, 2023 at 19:55 #828832
Quoting Amity
Unless you point to where I made 'obscenities' which sickened you as in the alleged:


Quoting Amity
Actually, perhaps it's a foursome. Paul the philosopher carries his Mum and morality everywhere:


:vomit:
Benkei August 09, 2023 at 19:56 #828833
Quoting Amity
Are you talking about the writing here? If so, excellent :up:


Yup.
Amity August 09, 2023 at 20:06 #828837
Reply to Benkei
You just had to bring it here... but without the full context:

Ewww... Let's keep the mums out of the sexual innuendo please.
— Benkei

It wisnae me :scream:
— Amity

I should have corrected your misinterpretation re:

Actually, perhaps it's a foursome. Paul the philosopher carries his Mum and morality everywhere:
— Amity

'Mum and morality' - the 4th element. Paul's baggage.

Nothing to do with Paul, Joanna and the other 'she', the car.

...the descriptions: the 3-way sexual vibrations;
— Amity


Your :vomit: is ridiculous.

However, I'm glad you complimented the writing here. Good on ya' :flower:


ucarr August 09, 2023 at 23:53 #828906
Reply to Baden

Quoting Baden
When you get beyond that anything can happen but no matter what it is it's almost always better than being cloaked by your influences. This writer has confidence and a certain flair that I can happily absorb without worrying too much about the details of the narrative. ... If that makes sense.


Reply to Amity

Quoting Amity
I think the problem with this story is that logical connections are missing. There are no clear directions for how to piece the fragments together in a rational way.


Do you like James Joyce? An olympic imagination at play in words.
Amity August 10, 2023 at 06:13 #829017
Quoting ucarr
I think the problem with this story is that logical connections are missing. There are no clear directions for how to piece the fragments together in a rational way.
— Amity

Do you like James Joyce? An olympic imagination at play in words.


I don't know if I like Joyce. I think I read him when very young with no great understanding.

I do like 'imagination at play in words'.

Can you provide an excerpt of his work or a recommendation? Thanks.


hypericin August 10, 2023 at 18:22 #829222
Quoting Noble Dust
Marianne cried out in pain. Birthing death, blood and tears. Married by ritual, forced against her will, aged thirteen. A newborn. Killed and still. So young and far away.


Does anyone know why this line appears where it does? This is where I really lost the plot I think.
ucarr August 10, 2023 at 18:54 #829240
Reply to Amity

Quoting Amity
I don't know if I like Joyce. I think I read him when very young with no great understanding.

I do like 'imagination at play in words'.

Can you provide an excerpt of his work or a recommendation? Thanks


What is the structure of Ulysses?

Ulysses is divided into three parts: The Telemachiad, the Odyssey, and The Nostos; it has eighteen episodes. The novel mirrors Homer's The Odyssey and is a stream-of-consciousness text with each chapter written in a different style.Apr 11, 2022

Ulysses by James Joyce | Structure, Style, & Characters
https://study.com › ... › Modernism in English Literature

I'll venture to guess "Red, White and Blue" has reverberations of Joyce behind it. In another guess, let me say the narrative features "fragmented stream-of-consciousness." The two elements, being polar opposites, combine to form a narrative that challenges readers vigorously.

The trick to reading stream-of-consciousness narratives (for me at least) is to allow connections between things to be loosey-goosey, far-flung, deeply intuitive connections instead of simple, rational, everyday connections. In short, read the narrative with your guts as much as with your head.

The trick to cottoning onto the modernist voice in narratives (for me at least) is to accept, as in the case of Joyce (I think), an elfin, raffish, snarky point-of-view onto a world of bloomin' creation with minimal explanations of existing things. Things just are. Now, whadda yuh goin' to make a that?


Amity August 10, 2023 at 20:06 #829285
Quoting ucarr
Now, whadda yuh goin' to give as yer response, me lassie?


Do you usually talk like a mongrel Scottie?

Thanks for the Joyce link. I'll take a look when I have the time and energy.
I don't have a problem following this story but others seem to. I don't think it up to me to spoon feed but I wondered if there was a technique to make it more obvious.

For me, understanding a puzzling story is important. And yes, it's good to go with intuitive flow but the head comes into it for an intelligent reading.

I remember reading @180 Proof's 'Felice' where a transition was made from present to past. The shower scene! Not obvious at all but I was delighted to 'get it' when others didn't. I think the challenge and hard won 'Aha' moments are special for any reader.
It's not necessarily intuitive but a thinking out...reading through and beyond the gaps.

But I can't remember how 180 achieved this.
I thought something similar might have helped out here. Not from present to past but from and to something or somewhere else...

I am grateful to you for the term 'fragmented stream of consciousness' and other thoughts.






Jamal August 10, 2023 at 20:33 #829294
Reply to Amity James Joyce’s Ulysses is famous for its stream of consciousness passages. Molly Bloom’s mental monologue is particularly famous, even though these days it might seem to be clichéd, owing to all the contemporary “say yes to life” rubbish. But this was the 1920s. Anyway, it stands up:

[quote=James Joyce]… in the Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets and pink and blue and yellow houses and the rosegardens and the jessamine and geraniums and cactuses and Gibraltar as a girl where I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.[/quote]

It’s an intimidating book though, and I haven’t read it. Probably the way to approach it is with a sense of adventure and an intense but non-academic engagement.

That’s my plan anyway.
ucarr August 10, 2023 at 20:43 #829296
Quoting Amity
Now, whadda yuh goin' to give as yer response, me lassie?
— ucarr

Do you usually talk like a mongrel Scottie?


I offer my apology for the last sentence. I was pleased with myself, thinking I'd given smart advice. Later, I realized my last sentence was forward, presumptuous and inappropriate. I won't be writing one like that again.

I now see, moreover, that my advice is not as smart as I'd previously thought.

Quoting Amity
I don't have a problem following this story but others seem to. I don't think it up to me to spoon feed but I wondered if there was a technique to make it more obvious.


Quoting Amity
Can you provide an excerpt of his work or a recommendation?


You've nailed me again. You said nothing to warrant my spoon-fed, less-than-excellent advice so, another apology.

Quoting Amity
it's good to go with intuitive flow but the head comes into it for an intelligent reading.


Quoting Amity
It's not necessarily intuitive but a thinking out...reading through and beyond the gaps.


Quoting Amity
I wondered if there was a technique to make it more obvious.


Yes to all of the above, and, to sum up, I agree that this story affords readers opportunities to think their way to satisfying aha! moments.

hypericin August 10, 2023 at 20:57 #829303
Quoting Amity
I wondered if there was a technique to make it more obvious.


It is a sad fact that a reader is always less invested, immersed, and knowing about a piece of writing than the writer is. I think the writer has to always be conscious of their unique perspective wrt their work, and bias towards making things more obvious, without spoon feeding. It is a very difficult balance to strike.
Noble Dust August 11, 2023 at 06:28 #829422
In my house cleaning, I see I haven't commented on this story, but I could have sworn I did. Guess I'm getting old.

Unfortunately I have nothing original to say, as I found the narrative impossible to follow, but I found the ebullience of the writing style quite wonderful at the same time. So, a sort of ying/yang of bad/good that left me a bit flabbergasted and confused. I want to say other things that would betray the author's identity, so I'll leave off there. Good job here, but, dear author, I'm still left a bit confused. But thank you for this.
Amity August 11, 2023 at 06:50 #829428
Quoting Jamal
James Joyce’s Ulysses is famous for its stream of consciousness passages.
Molly Bloom’s mental monologue is particularly famous, [...]
It’s an intimidating book though, and I haven’t read it. Probably the way to approach it is with a sense of adventure and an intense but non-academic engagement.

That’s my plan anyway.


The very title intimidates me. I can appreciate that this must be tackled only when ready for it.
Perhaps, to read Homer's Odyssey first - and that means quite the undertaking.
From wiki:

Quoting Ulysses (novel) - wiki
Ulysses is the Latinised name of Odysseus, the hero of Homer's epic poem the Odyssey, and the novel establishes a series of parallels between the poem and the novel, with structural correspondences between the characters and experiences of Bloom and Odysseus, Molly Bloom and Penelope, and Stephen Dedalus and Telemachus, in addition to events and themes of the early 20th-century context of modernism, Dublin, and Ireland's relationship to Britain


How Joyce was able to write this is beyond my comprehension.
Stream-of-consciousness passages are fascinating in small doses. I expect there would be a deliberate choice as to which character, when and why.

But I'd best leave this here. Thanks.

Amity August 11, 2023 at 07:05 #829434
Quoting ucarr
I offer my apology for the last sentence.


I appreciate your apology and I see you've made amends by changing it. So, forgiven for the almighty sin, you can now rise up, head held high!

Quoting ucarr
You said nothing to warrant my spoon-fed, less-than-excellent advice so, another apology.


Please no more apologies, I can't take it. Really, the fault was mine in the ambiguity of my post.
Your attention, intentions and information are much appreciated.

Quoting ucarr
[...] I wondered if there was a technique to make it more obvious.
— Amity

Yes to all of the above, and, to sum up, I agree that this story affords readers opportunities to think their way to satisfying aha! moments.


If there is a 'Yes' to knowing a helpful technique for this kind of transition, then I'd be pleased to hear it.
As things stand, I am blind, standing outside the Magic Circle, members holding close their secrets.
Do y'all have a special handshake?

Quoting ucarr
I agree that this story affords readers opportunities to think their way to satisfying aha! moments.


But not all have the inclination and that's fine. In the grand scheme of things... *shrugs*

'Let it be'. Moving on. Thanks again!










Amity August 11, 2023 at 07:13 #829436
Quoting hypericin
It is a sad fact that a reader is always less invested, immersed, and knowing about a piece of writing than the writer is. I think the writer has to always be conscious of their unique perspective wrt their work, and bias towards making things more obvious, without spoon feeding. It is a very difficult balance to strike.


I appreciate this insight from an experienced writer and reader whose work and engagement is...
words fail me...and I can't reach my emoticons.
I wonder if this consciousness and balance can be taught or if it comes with experience.
Perhaps a bit of both and more...

Now best to move on, I think.






Amity August 11, 2023 at 07:17 #829437
Quoting Noble Dust
So, a sort of ying/yang of bad/good that left me a bit flabbergasted and confused.


Good summation and you are not alone!
Noble Dust August 11, 2023 at 07:19 #829438
Jamal August 11, 2023 at 07:21 #829439
Quoting Amity
Perhaps, to read Homer's Odyssey first


The Odyssey is great, but it’s not required for Ulysses. Joyce used it loosely as a convenient structure but it’s basically irrelevant, so I’ve been told.

Anyway, the Odyssey is not hard, whereas I think Ulysses is.
Amity August 11, 2023 at 07:24 #829441
Reply to Jamal
OK, thanks.
180 Proof August 11, 2023 at 07:47 #829442
Quoting Noble Dust
flabbergasted and confused

yet amused! A Rabelaisian jaunt à la Molly Bloom's run-on stream-of-bawdiness. I'll take a leap here and say this story is about everything. All of it. The great cosmic piss-bag (writ small). Not as nada as Dada but, IMHO, more a fairytale told To an idiot signifying 'a fairytale told By an idiot signifying ...' "Red White and Blue". Eff if I know this interlude – 'the tricolour' doesn't mean scheiße anymore to an American like me – or is the author just pantomemeing a Lennonesque (sans
drawings)? :smirk:
Amity August 11, 2023 at 10:28 #829460
Quoting 180 Proof
A Rabelaisian jaunt à la Molly Bloom's run-on stream-of-bawdiness.

Brilliant!

Quoting 180 Proof
"Red White and Blue". Eff if I know this interlude – 'the tricolour' doesn't mean scheiße anymore to an American like me – or is the author just pantomemeing a Lennonesque (sans drawings)


@Tobias, I should have believed you - about the Dutch being at the bottom of it all!

@180 Proof Why doesn't the tricolour mean anything to you because you're 'Black and Blue' ( song link)
It has a strong meaning related to a fight for liberty, doesn't it?
But I have to say, I'm not a big fan of flags or flying them.

The tricolour flag:

The first tricolour flag, called the Prince's Flag, is the predecessor of the flags of the Netherlands, which is the oldest tricolour still in use and inspired many red-white-blue tricolour flags.

A tricolour (BE) or tricolor (AE) is a type of flag or banner design with a triband design which originated in the 16th century as a symbol of republicanism, liberty, or revolution. The oldest tricolour flag originates from the Netherlands, which successor later inspired the French and Russian flags.[1][2] The flags of France, Italy, Romania, Mexico, and Ireland were all first adopted with the formation of an independent republic in the period of the French Revolution to the Revolutions of 1848, with the exception of the Irish tricolour, which dates from 1848 but was not popularised until the Easter Rising in 1916 and adopted in 1919.[3]


So, not only the colours 'Red, White and Blue'. But still a symbol of power. To be used or abused.

Lennonesque? What did you have in mind?




Sorry, no need to respond. I meant to leave this thread. Going now!










Benkei August 11, 2023 at 10:45 #829464
Red, white and royal blue...
hypericin August 13, 2023 at 01:37 #829977
This one's really grown on me, it is probably my favorite. Bold as hell, creative as all get-out, dense and demanding, unconventional, sexualized, and giving few to no shits about any of it. I will dare the undarable, and give it my best @Amity.

This is it. Flying high, he looked down at his land and people. Harvest time. Taxing trouble and toil. Merry Olde England.


This is it, the reader is plunged headfirst into the air, and the story. Flying high, looking down, both dream and as we see with "his" land and people, princely status. "Taxing trouble and toil", an alliterative prince's meaning of harvest time. "Merry Olde England", time and place succinctly established. This brief paragraph accomplishes a remarkable amount of background work.

Then in the blink of an eye, or the peck of a beak, his world turned upside down. Falling, flailing, failing. What the actual dickens?


The dream is ruptured, perhaps by a peckish dream-beak. More alliteration, culminating in failing: a regal, soaring god-prince? Not quite! The author's tone is quite playful, "what the actual dickens" indeed.

Nadar, the epitome of a handsome, spoiled brat Prince lay on his bed. Not just any bed. A polished and plush 4-poster bed. Regally trimmed. Canopied and caged for a night in white satin.


"Nadar", the "epitome"? Or the nadir? "handsome, spoiled brat Prince", a cookie cutter commonplace, to be used, twisted and exploited by the author. Speaking of, the prince is surely given an effeminate, classic "princess bed". "Night in white satin", where have I heard that line before?

His parents put him there, helped by goodly, goblin Gyvlak who cast a comatising spell, custom-built. Anxious they were, as the commoners cupped and supped their country ale. Penny-a-pint plotters. Philandering princes not welcome. Slumber long and deep in moody blues.


The again alliterative Goodly goblin Gyvlak introduced just like that, a mere helper appearing in a mere helper clause of the sentence. This kind of incidental but rich detail (not merely a goblin, a goody, goodly goblin, with the curious cognomen, Gyvlak) supports the illusion that there is a rich world we are catching a glimpse of. A comatising spell, custom built. No mere spell of sleep, why just use language when you can play with it? Who are these commoners, penny-a-pint plotters? The serfdom, for whom life goes on, crisis notwithstanding? "deep in moody blues", ah, that is where I heard it!


Maid Marianne held her nose and took the money. She could do this. Keep the prince cool, calm and comfy for as long as. What could possibly go wrong? Nadar tossed and turned in sudden fever. Hell’s Bells!



Don't merely introduce Marianne, tell her role, additude, and action, all in 9 words. There is an economy and density of language. As in, "for as long as". "Possible" is 8 letters too long, "necessary" an exhorbitant 9. Away with them!. What could go wrong? A fever, thats what. No beating around the bush. "Hells Bells", another rock 'n roll anachronism, keeping perfectly with the piece's playful and rather rockin' spirit.

Nymphy Netja, congratulated herself on a job well done. The Gobby One was not gonna win this time! There would be no peace for the wicked.



Introducing Nymphy Netja and "The Gobby One", or that is presumably Gyvlak?. Netja, the fever maker, offers no peace (but plenty of rest) for the wicked prince?

The Prince was and wasn’t having a ball.


Admist dense and vivid prose, an abrupt flashback, introduced by more wordplay. A bead of sweat begins to form on the reader's brow.

Throwing one was all for the good. Sycophants danced around. Beauties, artists, actors, acrobats, uglies. Masked for mutual benefits.


Over and above beauty, artisry, etc, these are syncophants. Wonderful economy. Masked for what benefits, though? Anonymous trysts?

Now blinded by the brightness of a beguiling someone or other. A dazzling debutante, no doubt decked out and draped by a fairy godmother if he was not mistaken. Been there, done that. But this, this was different. Nadar was instantly smitten;
bewitched, bothered and bewildered.


Alliteration is on overdrive , 3, then 5, followed by 3. The fiercely clever author can't contain themselves. I love "someone or other", it keeps the tone playful and easy. "Been there, done that", here in a land built upon tropes.

A magical seduction. Observed only by the masked maid Marianne who had plans of her own for the prince. Doing the rounds, serving drinks. Something wasn’t right.


We observed the prince's subjective pov, followed by revelation of its objective reality (as only an author, pettiest of Gods, can provide): this is an otherworldly seduction, witnessed by the jealous Marianne.

She followed them through the door. Deep in a dark stairwell, Nadar was pinned against the wall by the winsome beauty. Slender yet strangely tall and strong. Sucking, stroking and stoking the fire of desire.
Growing full and hard, his staff thrust its way through the layered lace and silk of an open-fronted gown. Below it, the prince bucked and recoiled, aroused and wakened to his plight. This could not be. His Royal Highness was being taken by a…a…He! Sucker-punched and gasping he fell to the ground.


Very bold, here we see what fate awaits becanopied princes, here in the author's fiefdom: they are exploited, transgressed, and not insignificantly, aroused. Just as the author exploits and transgresses the chestnut Fairy Tale, for their literary arousal, and perchance our own.

Marianne weighed in. The heavy, silver tray crashed down on the attacker’s skull. She hauled Nadar to his feet. Eyes interlocked. Amber meets emerald. Aye, aye.
Contact and connection.


Weighed in, with a skull crushing silver tray, the maid rescues the prince. Seeing eye to eye, yes, and yes!

Is she…he, it, the…Other…dead?
No, but that’s not a very good look, is it?
Let’s get rid
And so they did.


She, he, it? Not even "it", "Other", capital 'O'.
And a micro-poem, why not? The author is having too much fun with this.

The Prince turned to thank Marianne, to raise her hand to his lips, maybe more but…


And so concludes our twisted fairytale! But...

Marianne cried out in pain. Birthing death, blood and tears. Married by ritual, forced against her will, aged thirteen. A newborn. Killed and still. So young and far away.


Wait, what? Flashback of a traumatic past?

Frustrated in his prison, Prince Nadar’s heart pounded dangerously. Netja smiled at the silent scream. Thanks, Gyvlak! You know not what you do. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


Back to the prince's chamber, the prince turns out to be in the throes of a sleep paralysis of indefinite duration, inadvertantly inflicted by Goodly Gyvlak's "custom" spell. Just who is Netja??

Meanwhile, Marianne kept her cool and the prince alive with medication, massage and urine bags. Not exactly sex, drugs, and rock’n’roll but one can dream.


Aspiring to be the prince's lover, she winds up his nursemaid, keeping him on life support with above all else, urine bags. Wineskin proto-catheters I suppose.

The resurrected Other enters by a back passage.
To finish the job, to capture royalty and their downfall. Click, click, clickety, click.


"entered by a back passage", as per prior intent?
Click? Talons on marble, the Other's true form?

Marianne spins around mid pee-pouch change. What the…?


A too-funny image!

The Other catches her. He cajoles and declares his love for the prince. He’s here to help. Nafar needs us both.


Nafar? Who??

How?
The magical power of red, white on blue.

One hand rubs his bulging, velvet codpiece, the other reaches out to a bemused Marianne. What kind of blood, from where? Menstrual? He sniffs the air. No, not that time of the month. Fingertips? Nah, you don’t know where they’ve been.
Time to wake up and smell the roses… and semen, Marianne.


Blood and semen on royal, blue-blooded, blues?

The thorns prick her soft, sensuous lips and tongue. Red rivulets drip down her chin. To the golden cup. So damned appealing. Mad with desire, the Other forgets his mission. He circles and chases the scent of Marianne. Gnashing teeth, growling, tearing and biting. Marianne screams as she fights. Holy fuckin’ fuck!

The blood, dripping into "the golden cup" (which now? ) semes to awaken a kind of vampiric lust.

Prince Nadar ripped from his nightmare can’t do a bloody thing as he watches the pair fight for dominion. Must eat something. Grabs a banana and slurps milk.


Hahaha, the prince couldn't be more hapless and ineffectual.

Blue blood will out. Gyvlak waves to Netja. Final bout.

The Other looks up as the goblet of red sails through the air.
He howls at the splash in the eyes, his mouth opens in horror.
Wide enough to catch pure gold. The mid-flight spillage of a burst pee bag. It works like a charm, every time.
So, the reborn, heroic prince wins the day, as does the good.

Or so the story goes.

The Other sweats, sobs and shakes in the foetal position.. Germophobia not good.



The Other, attempting to deflower the prince, got a golden shower in the mouth! Thrown by the prince??


Time to wrap up and warp out.


Indeed! Whew, I'm exhausted, out of steam! Both by the critique and the demanding story itself. Ok, I admit I don't know what the hell happened in the last third. But I'm not the cleverest reader, and it doesn't matter. This was a dazzling debutante of a tale, RICH with wit, creativity, and style. There is raw talent just bursting out. A criminally underrated gem!

180 Proof August 13, 2023 at 01:53 #829980
Reply to hypericin :clap: "Fuckin' Yay!"
Amity August 13, 2023 at 11:23 #830035
Quoting hypericin
This one's really grown on me, it is probably my favorite. Bold as hell, creative as all get-out, dense and demanding, unconventional, sexualized, and giving few to no shits about any of it. I will dare the undarable, and give it my best Amity.


Oh, my giddy aunt! A real, Royal Prince dashing to the rescue. What's not to like?!
You are, I think, the 3rd luminary to do an Amity.
I agree with @180 Proof - top marks for such derring-do. Fuckin' Yay! +++

I'll attempt a response, even as I kill myself laughing. Transfixed and tripping over "Aha!" moments.

Quoting hypericin
"Taxing trouble and toil", an alliterative prince's meaning of harvest time. "Merry Olde England", time and place succinctly established.


Yes. And not so Merry for some. The people down below are dependent on the Princely for pay and tied accommodation. Basic provisions in exchange for hard, physical labour. Hell mend you if you fall ill.
No NHS. But 'Garlic, wine and oxgall for an eyesalve'. If you've the stomach, read on:
https://www.historyhit.com/facts-about-healthcare-in-the-middle-ages/

Quoting hypericin
"Nadar", the "epitome"? Or the nadir? "handsome, spoiled brat Prince", a cookie cutter commonplace, to be used, twisted and exploited by the author. Speaking of, the prince is surely given an effeminate, classic "princess bed". "Night in white satin", where have I heard that line before?


Oh, good catch. A 'cookie cutter commonplace' - this alliteration thing is catching. Is there a cure?
Yes, perhaps exploited due to sheer laziness and incompetence. Descriptive powers fading...
A classic Sleeping Princess bed - what? A Prince can't have one?
In any case, I see this as sturdy, sexy, slippery, manly mahogany...did I mention seductive?
Quoting Noble Dust
A polished and plush 4-poster bed. Regally trimmed. Canopied and caged for a night in white satin.


***
Quoting hypericin
Who are these commoners, penny-a-pint plotters? The serfdom, for whom life goes on, crisis notwithstanding? "deep in moody blues", ah, that is where I heard it!


Male workers who, yes, carry on for the most part, stoically. But is there a plot afoot?
Who is there to lead them out of a depressed haze of beer, Sunday praise and prayer?
Perhaps Robin Hood, his band of brothers and his female companion?
What's her name again?

* breaking away from this breakneck rock'n'roll *



















Amity August 13, 2023 at 14:59 #830061
Maid Marianne held her nose and took the money

Quoting hypericin
Don't merely introduce Marianne, tell her role, additude, and action, all in 9 words


Was her role only that of a maid? Why did she hold her nose? To avoid the smell of piss? Is something rotten in the state of Denmark? To care for royalty goes against the grain...but she took the money anyway. Was it for her or the poor?

Quoting hypericin
The Prince was and wasn’t having a ball.
Admist dense and vivid prose, an abrupt flashback, introduced by more wordplay. A bead of sweat begins to form on the reader's brow.


Yes, I think so. A feverish flashback to a time of lording it over others. The Grand Master of Ceremonies at the seasonal, masked ball where transactions and d/alliances were made.
Secret handshakes, a nod and a wink. No sweat until his bubble burst.

A magical seduction. Observed only by the masked maid Marianne who had plans of her own for the prince.


What kind of plans? Do we ever find out?

Quoting hypericin
an otherworldly seduction, witnessed by the jealous Marianne.


How can you tell she is jealous? Is it just your imagination runnin' away with you?
Cue musical interlude:



Same title, different song.



***

Quoting hypericin
Weighed in, with a skull crushing silver tray, the maid rescues the prince


Sounds like the maid is quite the heavyweight. Physically strong enough to haul the prince to his feet, after presumably shifting dead weight 'Other' out of the way. A fantastic fairy tale?

Phew, this is hard going for what is supposed to be a day of rest. Later...












Amity August 13, 2023 at 16:47 #830082
Quoting hypericin
The Prince turned to thank Marianne, to raise her hand to his lips, maybe more but…
And so concludes our twisted fairytale! But...
Marianne cried out in pain. Birthing death, blood and tears. Married by ritual, forced against her will, aged thirteen. A newborn. Killed and still. So young and far away.

Wait, what? Flashback of a traumatic past?


Qui sait? I've lost the plot and the will to live.
Is it Marianne having a flashback? And is now taking sweet revenge against the system after years of bodybuilding? or is it part of the Prince's nightmare? Taken to an alternate reality, the horror of the poor?
He's lived the sheltered life of the other half. Protected and privileged.
Has he now seen the light? What the dickens?!

Quoting hypericin
Just who is Netja??

The nemesis of good goblin Gyvlak? But is the nymph really bad? or a mix?

Quoting hypericin
The resurrected Other enters by a back passage.
To finish the job, to capture royalty and their downfall. Click, click, clickety, click.

"entered by a back passage", as per prior intent?
Click? Talons on marble, the Other's true form?


Hmm, could be... the sound of claws, the same big bird whose beak burst the hot air balloon?
Or visionary eyes clicking, taking images in camera.

Quoting hypericin
Nafar needs us both.
Nafar? Who??


Ach, these furrin craturs cannae spik right. Who gives a duck?

Quoting hypericin
Blood and semen on royal, blue-blooded, blues?


Yes, that sounds right. The mediaeval NHS with its magic potions, applied to wherever.
To cure (or harm) the Prince.

Quoting hypericin
Prince Nadar ripped from his nightmare can’t do a bloody thing as he watches the pair fight for dominion. Must eat something. Grabs a banana and slurps milk.

Hahaha, the prince couldn't be more hapless and ineffectual.


Don't be so hard on Nadar. A nana'n'milk shakes and shapes him up for action. Look up!



Quoting hypericin
The Other, attempting to deflower the prince, got a golden shower in the mouth! Thrown by the prince??


Aka Superman! Yay Fuckin' Yay! Or maybe not...

Quoting hypericin
Time to wrap up and warp out.

Indeed! Whew, I'm exhausted, out of steam!


Aw, giving up so soon? OK. *shrugs*

Quoting hypericin
I don't know what the hell happened in the last third.


What last third? Did I miss something...

Quoting hypericin
A criminally underrated gem


I have to agree and not the only one...

Glad that's over. Time to rest up, pardner. *rides off into the sunset*











Amity August 13, 2023 at 18:43 #830124
Reply to Benkei And your point is...
Benkei August 13, 2023 at 18:45 #830125
Reply to Amity It's a hint.
Amity August 13, 2023 at 18:47 #830127
***
Nils Loc August 20, 2023 at 04:36 #831978
A weird inkblot spectacular stream of consciousness.

Goblin mage and nymph witch warring for control of Nadar, proxy of the realm.

Maid Marianne put in place to serve and protect. Royal guard extraordinare. Kick ass Marrianne.

The phallus wielding siren in the prince's fever dream, the Other?

Nadar, so flat on his back, fevered, kissing... did it destroy the dream Marianne? Nadar can't marry the cop by parental decree.

There she is again, bleeding crimson by alchemical insanity of a clowned codpieced entity, threaded to you know who. No you don't.

A world seething and bending under the rainbow rods of sorcery and their cardinal colors of red, white and blue.

Too loo too loo, sweet prince. No more piss bags. Mother bless, Marriane. Kick ass cop and wet nurse.

User image
180 Proof August 20, 2023 at 05:27 #831983
Reply to Nils Loc :clap: :cool:
Amity August 20, 2023 at 06:29 #831988
Quoting Nils Loc
A weird inkblot spectacular stream of consciousness.


Alors! Bien joué, mon petit choux!
I think you just passed the Rorshach Test with flying colours - Red, White and Blue!

Your word and thoughts so poetically and yet logically aligned. L'arte magnifique!

Quoting Nils Loc
There she is again, bleeding crimson by alchemical insanity of a clowned codpieced entity, threaded to you know who. No you don't.


You have the magic, mon ami.

Quoting Nils Loc
A world seething and bending under the rainbow rods of sorcery and their cardinal colors of red, white and blue.


And having great fun with it!

Quoting Nils Loc
Too loo too loo, sweet prince. No more piss bags. Mother bless, Marriane. Kick ass cop and wet nurse.


Un résumé royal. You rock'n'rule.
[ ] Fuckin' Yay, yay, yay +++

Liberté, égalité, fraternité !!!
Amity August 22, 2023 at 19:33 #832795
Thanks to all who read and provided feedback on my first ever TPF short story! Yay :cool:
I'll run through some of the comments and then try to explain what happened to my brain.

First off the mark:
Quoting javi2541997
I think the plot is clear and easy to follow. Congratulations. It was such a meditative reading experience for me... It has passion and consistency.


Glad you enjoyed it. Though some don't agree with its ease or meditative quality!
***
Quoting Benkei
It's okay. The disgusting disgusted me, which is good. Make me vomit... that means your descriptions are spot on... Not everything happening was clear and reading it twice I concluded it wasn't me. Too many alliterations for my taste...


Loved the underlined. It's good to be disgusted, but it depends on the quality of the writing and how the reader interprets it. I hadn't noticed all the alliteration but when I read it over again you're right. Even though @hypericin rocked and rolled with them!
I understand the confusion and you are not alone.
***
Quoting Tobias
The plot is clear? I have no idea what is going on... except for the glittering of references, nights in white satin, moody blues, hell being paced, the virgin Marianne, Hell's bells. I do think no peace for the wicked should be no rest for the wicked.


An interesting pick of references. Being picky about the silly. Perhaps a question of not seeing the wood for the trees? Below @Baden talks about not worrying about the details.
***
Quoting Baden
Very nicely written. The galloping carefree rhythm and weird fairytale allusions remind me of Coover. Also, how could I say no to a burst piss bag
Well done. Enjoyed. :up:


You are my inspiration, O Baden! Though I've never heard of Coover. It fascinates me just how often in this Event, a story reminds someone of another writer. In the style of...without necessarily explaining what it is that triggers the response. Glad you enjoyed it.
***
Quoting Baden

I'd have to read it over to get a proper grasp of the plot. But it's proper writing in my estimation, unselfconscious and free...This writer has confidence and a certain flair that I can happily absorb without worrying too much about the details of the narrative. ... If that makes sense.


This is it. Flying high. I could hardly believe my eyes when I read this. Still have to pinch myself.
Thank you. I had a ball when I wrote it but wasn't at all sure that I should submit.
@180 Proof helped me decide. Major thanks to him. Also to @javi2541997 who kickstarted the process.
***
Quoting Jack Cummins
... it took me into an alternative universe, with enough intrigue and suspense...I think that it has scope...the storyline into a longer piece of writing...


Glad it was trippy for you! I think you're right about the potential for the end to be a beginning.
***
Quoting hypericin
...What I liked best was the sense of limitless, unbounded creativity, and the transgression of the fairytale form...
That said, it feels raw, rushed, confused, and unpolished. With some refinement I think the author can be a very good comedic fantasy writer.


Ah, nothing quite like the smell of Transgression First Thing In The Morning.
That said, this continuing confusion is what led me to respond, after 3 -4 days of keeping shtum.
I simply couldn't keep away and anyway @Amity always has her say.
Oh, but as a comedic fantasy writer...hmm...
***
Quoting Amity
The transition points aren't clear. It is confusing...We're all here for constructive criticism. How could this story be improved?


And then all hell let loose regarding the Title and flags, (national) identity and political influences.
All good stuff. The 'Red, White and Blue' can be seen as a symbol of freedom/power.
***
Quoting Amity
...how to piece the fragments of the story together in a rational way.
But isn't this all part of a dream world landscape? There's a kaleidoscope of time, place and people.
So, follow the dream or nightmare. Who does it belong to...


Follow the dream. An important part of the scene. That was supposed to be a hint. Never mind.
***
Quoting ucarr
I'll venture to guess "Red, White and Blue" has reverberations of Joyce behind it. In another guess, let me say the narrative features "fragmented stream-of-consciousness." The two elements, being polar opposites, combine to form a narrative that challenges readers vigorously...
allow connections to be loosey-goosey, far-flung, deeply intuitive... read the narrative with your guts as much as with your head.


Thanks for that. I admit to less than a full understanding but it might come in useful when I come to explain my brain burst. Loosey, goosey. Cool!

Reply to Jamal Thanks for Molly, good golly! Can I say that?

***
Quoting 180 Proof
A Rabelaisian jaunt à la Molly Bloom's run-on stream-of-bawdiness.
I'll take a leap here and say this story is about everything. All of it. The great cosmic piss-bag (writ small).


OMG - OTT or what. But I love it!

***
And then...there's simply too much to take in. Simply overwhelming.
Reply to hypericin I've said it all in my response but this I didn't expect in all my wildest dreams.
I feel so privileged that you spent so much time and effort with Red, White and Blue.
Your wonderful words to be saved and savoured forever. Thank you!

***
Reply to Nils Loc A fabulous ending. It lifted my spirits. Also, it raises questions of who is considered a hero or heroine. When, why and how his-stories influence us. Who writes them, for what purpose.
And so on.

That's it for today. All will become clear...later! (maybe).








































Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 19:34 #832797
Reply to Amity

Congrats on your first entry! And we have a trademark Amity analysis of people's analysis of her own story. :razz: Love it.
hypericin August 22, 2023 at 19:39 #832799
Reply to Noble Dust A meta-Amity, if you will

Jack Cummins August 22, 2023 at 19:48 #832805
It is so different from many of the stories and may be in danger of being disregarded for this reason. I believe that it is a very worthwhile contribution, especially into the dimension of fairytales, their mythic interpretations and its relevance in the twentieth first century. I am interested in how it is regarded in this sense and hope to join in further discussion here.
180 Proof August 23, 2023 at 05:43 #832914
Quoting Amity
A Rabelaisian jaunt à la Molly Bloom's run-on stream-of-bawdiness. I'll take a leap here and say this story is about everything. All of it. The great cosmic piss-bag (writ small).
— 180 Proof

OMG - OTT or what. But I love it!

Thanks for sharing your (joy of words - in French) with us, my friend. :flower: :sparkle:
Amity August 23, 2023 at 09:43 #832938
Reply to Noble Dust Reply to hypericin Reply to Jack Cummins Reply to 180 Proof Thanks, guys, for latest comments!

This story came out of the blue. Coincidentally at the same time as the Event.

The Writing Process. This has always intrigued me. So glad @hypericin started the thread:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/14602/literary-writing-process
We can read posters' insights into just how much planning or otherwise is involved.
A flexible, fly-by-the-pants-of-a-sentence kind compared to a fixed intent, logical, linear type.
Sometimes a bit of both.

It won't come as a surprise to learn that when writing Red, White and Blue, I had no clue!
Some described it as a 'stream of consciousness'. I'm not sure this is correct. From wiki:

In literature, stream of consciousness writing is a literary device which seeks to portray an individual's point of view by giving the written equivalent of the character's thought processes, either in a loose interior monologue, or in connection to his or her sensory reactions to external occurrences. Stream-of-consciousness as a narrative device is strongly associated with the modernist movement.


My story was not planned and I had no idea of using any such 'literary device'.
So many ideas were fast-moving and quite mental. Difficult to pin down; exhausting yet exhilarating.

What were they and where did they come from?

First, the Masculinity thread where questions were asked about gender identity/dysphoria, patriarchy and feminism. The 'lost' women philosophers of Pragmatism. Structural inequalities.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/14427/masculinity/p1

Then, Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver who was inspired by the Charles Dickens novel David Copperfield. This time the boy born into poverty is set in Appalachia. Kingsolver explores issues like drug addiction, identity and systemic institutional failures. Injustice related to power and exploitation.

On a lighter note, the masked ball interlude was inspired by a Bridgerton Regency Romance!

So, what could be easier than an inversion of Sleeping Beauty?
I had no message in mind, no great intention, only a beginning.
Perhaps issues of good v bad. Are they so absolute? Like female v male? Freedom and power.

The Prince's dream transitions were an attempt to follow @hypericin's micro, 'Three Shittyassed Ghosts' - ( again, Dickens - A Christmas Carol, a tale of spiritual redemption).
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13720/three-shittyass-ghosts-by-hypericin/p1
[Also the shower scene technique in @180 Proof's 'Felice', flowing from present to past.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/12322/felice-by-180-proof ]
Well, I tried...partially successful but still confusing. Still searching for the magic trick!

***
The Nightmare Flashback, an alternate reality, designed to shock Nadar to a new awareness:
'Marianne cried out in pain. Birthing death, blood and tears. Married by ritual, forced against her will, aged thirteen. A newborn. Killed and still. So young and far away.'


From 'After Sappho' by Shelby Wynn Schwartz, p20. Related to Article 544 of the Italian Penal Code.

Once Rina's father learned that she had been possessed by that man, there was nothing to do but transfer her to him in name and deed...Rina was handed from one household to another, sallow and dazed...there were no words for what happened...After [she] had been delivered to him, along with some dining room furniture, the curtains were drawn. When in the early months she miscarried in a feverish rush of blood, she did not ask why.

She was 15. Brutally raped and then forced to live with her rapist and have his child.
This left a deep impression, just like other vignettes related to The Patria Potestas, p25.

***

Nearly forgot... the hysterical Prince's pissy fit. Inspired by @Baden's
Baden:Before I know what I’ve done, my arm has swung back, catheter bag in hand, and with a violent jerk slung it forward at her; it tumbles through the air and with a wet slap hits her breast; urine gushes out over her chest and face.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/12323/a-cross-for-maria-by-baden/p1

The Other, a fun character, popped out from: "Is she…he, it, the…Other…dead?"
I had thought of having 2 vying females, but way too much of a cliché. Initially conceived of as a malignant force, the being's only interest or vision was to change the system, the world and everything. Maybe a bit of whatever with Maid Marianne on the side. Such chemistry. Red, white on blue.

Quoting Noble Dust
Vive La Revolution!

If only he knew…the Red, White and Blue.


Quoting Poetry Foundation - To a Mouse by Robert Burns
The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men
Gang aft agley,
An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,
For promis’d joy!



There you have it. All I can think of, right now. If there are any other questions, fire away!

How thoughts seem to flow through the conscious, or unconscious...

So, any suggestions as to how the story could be improved to lessen the confusion?
To better signal the transition points?
Would having an outline have helped? Or what? I'm curious...
Tobias August 24, 2023 at 13:06 #833276
Quoting Noble Dust
Nadar was pinned against the wall by the winsome beauty. Slender yet strangely tall and strong. Sucking, stroking and stoking the fire of desire.


I do recognize something... Yes. Missing the trees for the forest, might well be, It seemed so many trees were there. Thanks for the explanation Amity. Glittering and :sparkle: similarities and dissimilarities. Cheers!
Amity August 24, 2023 at 14:12 #833281
Quoting Tobias
I do recognize something... Yes.


Aye. Yes. The touch and feel of a stand-out tree. I can see how that would work for you.

Quoting Tobias
Thanks for the explanation Amity.


My pleasure.
I look forward to hearing more from you...
How you worked your magic in The Museum?






Jack Cummins August 25, 2023 at 18:36 #833513
Reply to Amity
One thing which I am wondering about is the connection between the story and its idea of the 'other' and your poem. However, I am not suggesting that it is about gender necessarily but possibly about uniqueness and the nature of identity itself.

The whole idea of 'otherness' is about the distinctions of difference and how this arises in relation to the sexual aspects of experiences and how these impact on the construction of human identity in relation to others. Fairy tales may depict this and your chosen form based on this is a basis for constructing this narrative in a way of stripping back to the core archetypal aspects of gender and sexuality.
Amity August 26, 2023 at 09:13 #833662
Quoting Jack Cummins
One thing which I am wondering about is the connection between the story and its idea of the 'other' and your poem. However, I am not suggesting that it is about gender necessarily but possibly about uniqueness and the nature of identity itself.


Lovin' the wondrin'!
Sempre was written before the story. Both include gender issues and reflections on identity.
How society, family and culture can form and sway what or who we think we are or can be.
What does it say about 'heroism' and courage to step beyond the boundaries.

Quoting Jack Cummins
The whole idea of 'otherness' is about the distinctions of difference and how this arises in relation to the sexual aspects of experiences and how these impact on the construction of human identity in relation to others. Fairy tales may depict this and your chosen form based on this is a basis for constructing this narrative in a way of stripping back to the core archetypal aspects of gender and sexuality.


The Other and its role in Red, White and Blue was not planned. Strange how the mind works when it is let loose. The sexual aspect and the interaction I hadn't thought to play with. But that was fun!

It surprised me when I chose the fairy tale but much easier to invert/convert Disney than Dickens.
That reminds me. The character in Kingsolver's novel Demon Copperhead was 'saved' by his own burgeoning talent to draw cartoons of local heroes. Complete with Capows to Capitalism!

Reading and writing stories can have a major impact on people. However, the visual seems to be more attractive and all kinds of everything can be read into them or specifically manipulated.
Right now, I can't get the image of The Orange Person's Mug Shot out of my mind.
Or others making the headlines. That Kiss. It underlined issues of sexism, feminism, patriarchy and inequalities discussed in the 'Masculinity' thread.

Quoting Jenni Hermosa speaks out -The Guardian
Rubiales has faced fierce criticism for days, as well as a Fifa investigation, after he grabbed Hermoso by the head and kissed her on her lips during the Women’s World Cup final trophy presentation.

Hermoso said in a statement on Friday night that she felt “vulnerable and the victim of an aggression”, hours after Rubiales had vowed to stay on at the helm of Spain’s football federation in a meandering speech that railed against “false feminism” and a “social assassination” of his character.

"Unacceptable actions allowed to happen by a sexist and patriarchal organisation. Abuse is abuse and we have all seen the truth,” the England team posted on social media.
“The behaviour of those who think they are invincible must not be tolerated and people shouldn’t need convincing to take action against any form of harassment.



Perhaps, that is the kind of courage that ordinary people can show.
Against the powerful and privileged who think they can do anything they damned well like.
Under the cover of so-called patriotism.

The colours of a flag can give a sense of pride and identity.
These are important but can be too narrow and small-minded. Symbols of power manipulated.
Fairy tales of heroism. Capow!











Jack Cummins August 26, 2023 at 09:47 #833670
Reply to Amity
The relationship between the visual and writing is so important and it is as if they come from different places. However, they crossover and complement each other.

Personally, I used to spend so much time doing visual art, mainly drawing. However, I start to discover that writing is important because it can capture what can't be expressed in images alone. Nevertheless, this year as I was recovering from a broken elbow I have started drawing again and find that it is another category of expression.

What I see as an interesting possibility is the use of visual art and writing to be a complementary process of exploration, with using both to aid the other. The symbols may get to the aesthetic dimension, like drawing or painting in words and the conceptual intricacy can become a basis for developing narrative and reflective understanding. The conceptual aspects of understanding symbols can also enable understanding of social and political dimensions of experience.
Amity August 27, 2023 at 09:31 #833914
Quoting Jack Cummins
What I see as an interesting possibility is the use of visual art and writing to be a complementary process of exploration, with using both to aid the other. The symbols may get to the aesthetic dimension, like drawing or painting in words and the conceptual intricacy can become a basis for developing narrative and reflective understanding. The conceptual aspects of understanding symbols can also enable understanding of social and political dimensions of experience.


Yes. I agree. I've enjoyed the inclusion of images in the stories and poems.
Nils Loc August 28, 2023 at 01:27 #834107
There were too many trees because of generative aspect of the sorcerer's duel. This is an arms race and we expect all the absurdity and explosions it entails. Everything is explained by transmogrifying power of magic its all consuming chain reactions, effects upon effects, runaway processes, lost to the control of reason. Even the story's telling got contorted in the blaze. It's a charged artifact from its own universe. It wants to become a metered poem.

Mayhaps, all of a sudden you're wearing lipstick and high heels and it wasn't you. Your former wardrobe has been replaced and your family jewels have evolved. But you shouldn't worry, it's just fall out from the sorcerers' war.

Gyvlak, Netja, for the love of peace and reason, reign it in. Ukraine could use your combined services to lock away the evil romantic sumasshedshiy, Vmir RasPutin.

:joke: :party:

Amity August 28, 2023 at 08:59 #834174
Reply to Nils Loc
I love this. Everything about it. Thank you. Again. For your sheer brilliance.

Quoting Nils Loc
There were too many trees because of generative aspect of the sorcerer's duel.


Now I know who to blame. I almost forgot about Gyvlak and Netja. How could I?!

Quoting Nils Loc
Gyvlak, Netja, for the love of peace and reason, reign it in. Ukraine could use your combined services to lock away the evil romantic sumasshedshiy, Vmir RasPutin.


Ah, Red, White and Blue II - The Next Generation.
The novel with @Nils Loc as illustrator. Now, about character descriptions...
Who might play the parts of G&N in the film?
john27 November 09, 2023 at 02:28 #851839

Rythmically creative, and lyrically sound. The bounce between formal and casual stylstics seemed to be precise as well; not always landing its mark but definitely chosen with a level of rigor and intent, which sets a very exciting precedent.

I wish I could replicate even one iota of your analytical ability, as I and many others have had the pleasure of experiencing, however I fear given my time constraint this is all I have to offer.

I promise to revisit this later in hopes that I could present a critique that would mirror what you've done for the community.
Amity September 20, 2024 at 09:27 #933377
Reply to john27 Thank you, John, for this - it means so much. I see you haven't been forum active for some time. I hope you are well wherever you are, whatever you are doing. :pray: :sparkle: