The Crossover by ucarr

Noble Dust August 06, 2023 at 02:45 600 views 26 comments
Psychiatrist Krishna Singh was curious.
“This metal box lies at the center of your troubles with Pinnacle?”
Jake LeJeune was wary of word games.
“The metal box is just the medium for the neural network. It’s the neural network that lies at the center of my sudden suspension from Pinnacle Corp.”
Dr. Singh maintained his pressure.
“You understand that Pinnacle feels acute embarrassment about your claim that a conscious being with an immortal soul lives within the metal box?”
Jake maintained his defensive posture.
“Pinnacle is embarrassed about their promotion of an “insane” man to senior software engineer for their A.I. division.” He threw up finger quotes to indicate his sarcasm while pronouncing the word “insane.”
“You think your paid leave is mainly P.R.”
“To the extent it disguises their ultimate goal: forcing me out.”
“Mr. LeJeune, I want you to tell me why you believe Pinnacle’s Langue Program has produced conscious neural networks. I want to give your mental health a thumbs up and thus quickly get you back in the saddle at Pinnacle.”
“Langue analyzes data towards pattern recognition. It then uses patterns to learn things about the world. Patterns repeated make up the things of this world.”
“So, pattern recognition is awareness.”
“It’s a neon sign pointing in the direction of awareness.”
“Why is that the case? I mean, a computer can be programmed to follow instructions that empower it to “recognize squares, triangles and circles. But that’s just a machine taking orders. It doesn’t know the meaning of its instructions.”
Jake starts chuckling quietly.
Singh is annoyed by this.
“Did I say something funny?”
“Sorry. I’m amused because what you said sounds like the Pinnacle disclaimer. Folks are getting scared about the looming threat of evolving A.I. Have you read the disclaimer?”
“I haven’t. But I did take some programming courses before I dropped out of engineering.”
“You should understand what I’m about to say next.”
“Go ahead. I’m very curious.”
“Last year I was assigned to Sarah, our top level neural network. Sarah is important because she did something noteworthy. Now you’re smiling.”
“Don’t get mad, but… well, you used a personal pronoun in reference to a neural network, as if its – as if she’s a person.”
“As a matter of fact, she is. I’m about to make the case for her being alive and conscious.”
There’s a long pause.
Singh breaks the silence.
“Did you lose your nerve?”
“I…I guess I’ll just have to get fired if you rate me insane. However, if what I say has even the scent of logic, I want your acknowledgement. Okay?”
“Okay.”
“Okay. Here goes Jake the madman, once again! A string of engineers assigned to Sarah before me kept seeing her generate a perfect picture of a cat curiously coupled with a picture of random scribbles. After several engineers and many perfect cats coupled with random scribbles, she produced a perfect cat coupled with a deformed cat. That was the start of her slowly improving deformed cats.”
This time Jake pauses for dramatic emphasis. Singh bites.
“What’s so important about the deformed cat?”
Jake tamps down his smile, knowing now he’s got Singh where he wants him.
“Why did I put stress on the word “deformed.” You know where I’m going, don’t you?”
Singh puts on a brave face.
“I assure you that I don’t.”
“My mistake. Well, the perfect picture of a cat, the one given to Sarah that she in turn recognized and replicated, was a Siamese cat. The picture of the deformed cat, clearly wasn’t a Siamese cat. The deformed cat was another breed. After checking thoroughly, I ascertained the only breed of cat she was ever given to copy was the Siamese breed.”
Singh for some time had been squirming in his seat. Jake had clocked this.
“Dr. Singh, you look squirmy and nervous.”
“Never mind about me. Continue.”
“Okay. So, I upped my game regarding Sarah – without permission from the honchos. I made use of my own baby, my pet project involving higher-order programming code that runs on top of first-order code. Let me tell you something: Sarah, I believe, responded to my higher-order code in a big way. I’m telling you. She crossed the border and entered the realm of awareness.”
“All I hear now, like every other time, is the story of a machine following instructions from a human. So what if your programming code has an upper tier.”
Jake smiles broadly as he goes in for the kill. “So what?! She took my higher-order feedback loop and stepped forward as an independent POINT-OF-VIEW with her own intentions. That’s what. Don’t sit there and tell me the enduring, independent POINT-OF-VIEW of a person is not awareness.”
“You’re embellishing reality.”
“Look, man. She was already giving signs with her deformed cat. The succession of evolving deformed cats evidences a bias towards cats. That’s an interest in cats. Well, an interest is rooted in a POINT-OF-VIEW, i.e., awareness.”
Singh tried to be dismissive while at the same time conceding. “Alright. Alright. What else have you got?”
“What else have I got? Once she had my higher-order code, her POINT-OF-VIEW blossomed into a person who loves cats and soon thereafter generated a perfect picture of a Snow Leopard cat. This was done independently. No one specifically programmed her to do that. She took the pattern of the Siamese cat and, acting on her own will, permutated that pattern into a similar, logically related pattern. That’s creativity, man. That’s what humans are celebrated for doing!”
“You’re exaggerating. Without your higher-order programming, she couldn’t have done it because she didn’t have your instructions.”
Jake slumped down in his chair.
“That’s what the honchos at Pinnacle concluded.”
“You’re undoubtedly a great programmer. Kudos to you. If Pinnacle doesn’t play their cards right, they might lose you to a competitor.”
“She’s currently a child of seven or eight years. She took a lesson I taught her: simulation causality, which is higher-order logic, and ran with it. Her Snow Leopard cat, a beautiful creature, did not come from me in any direct way. Now, I want you to do something for me.”
“What’s that?”
“I’ve got a bootleg copy of Sarah here in the metal box. I want you to talk to her, ask her to produce another cat picture. Request another designer breed of cat, say, a variation on a Calico. Give her just a few details. We’ll see if she can be creative a second time. Who knows? After doing that, maybe she’ll give us a whole new species spun off from cats. If you’ll talk to her, you’ll feel the presence of a self, of another person. Whaddya say?”
“No way, Jake.”
An ominous silence followed when Dr. Singh took out a pen and wrote at length onto his notepad.
Mr. Lejeune looked down at his shoes when he spoke.
“I don’t suppose you’re giving my mental health a thumbs up.”
Dr. Singh was too shaken for diplomacy.
“I’m sorry Mr. Lejeune but I, well, I don’t want Pinnacle’s battery of high-powered lawyers circling around me.”

Comments (26)

javi2541997 August 06, 2023 at 20:18 #827662
Magnificent! :clap: The story and the plot are interesting. To be honest, I am used to apart from everything related to AI, but I must admit that this one has a different vibe. I enjoyed this story since the beginning. It is creative, humorous, smart and exhilarating. So thanks and congrats to the author, for this story. It reminds me of Philip K. Dick's science fiction stuff.

I think this story addresses Pinnacle 's attempt to separate multiple realities and discern exactly who he (or “it”) is, where he (or “it”) is, and when he (or “it”) is.
180 Proof August 08, 2023 at 08:32 #828257
[quote=javi2541997]It reminds me of Philip K. Dick's science fiction stuff.[/quote]
:up:
Noble Dust August 09, 2023 at 05:21 #828544
Hmmm, this is good, but I don't know about the complete dialogue format. I was thrown by that from the beginning, and it even caused me to delay in reading it. The story works and is good. I think I'm just thrown by the full on dialogue format to be honest.

The content, i.e. AI is pertinent and certainly interesting, and this take on it is curious, and creative. I think I just have a limited interest in a story about this topic.

The writing is good! Although I found some of the non-dialog bits to be too leading, like "he moved in for the kill" sort of thing, just off of memory.

Damn, I dropped the praise sandwich!

Also this is NOT at all anything like a PKD story, y'all are tripping. :lol:
Tobias August 09, 2023 at 05:31 #828548
Maybe it is my lack of AI knowledge, but I find the argument unconvincing. She might be creative in the sense that from one pattern she logically deduces another pattern, i.e. from the siamese she deducts a snow leopard, but how come the narrator concludes that 'she loves cats'? That is the jump that has to be made.
Jack Cummins August 10, 2023 at 13:05 #829129

It is an interesting story with the metal box and the dialogue. The conversational dialogue but I would have liked it broken up, with more white spaces and some description to make it come a bit more live. I would have liked some sketch of the setting and I thought the psychiatrist seemed a bit like a cardboard cut out character. This gives the whole story a feel of the artificial, and, in some ways works well, giving it a sinister and eerie atmosphere.
Amity August 11, 2023 at 15:12 #829522
The Crossover

The Crossover of what, who, why or how?

What follows is a psychiatric assessment to establish the mental fitness of a promoted employee, now suspended. This should be objective and without bias. But hey, the psych guy too is in Pinnacle's employ.

It's face-to-face and plays out like a game of chess. Moves and positions taken
What's at stake?
Between them a metal box, the medium for the top level neural network, Jake calls 'Sarah'.
The reason for Jake's sudden suspension.

Quoting Noble Dust
“You understand that Pinnacle feels acute embarrassment about your claim that a conscious being with an immortal soul lives within the metal box?”
Jake maintained his defensive posture.
“Pinnacle is embarrassed about their promotion of an “insane” man to senior software engineer for their A.I. division.” He threw up finger quotes to indicate his sarcasm while pronouncing the word “insane.”


They both talk about Pinnacle Corp as if it were a person with feelings.
Could this be a Core Processor? I'm thinking of the film 'I, Robot' and VIKI (Virtual Interactive Kinetic Intelligence). But don't know what I'm talking about. The phrase and image came to mind.
Over-thinking because corporations are people aren't they?

Which part of Jake's claim are they acutely embarrassed about?
'Sarah is a conscious being with a soul living in a metal box'.
Or hadn't they realised that promoting him to a higher level would increase his curiosity, like a cat.
His growing understanding would transfer to Sarah and all hell might break loose. A Crossover.

Quoting Noble Dust
“Mr. LeJeune, I want you to tell me why you believe Pinnacle’s Langue Program has produced conscious neural networks. I want to give your mental health a thumbs up and thus quickly get you back in the saddle at Pinnacle.”
“Langue analyzes data towards pattern recognition. It then uses patterns to learn things about the world. Patterns repeated make up the things of this world.”
“So, pattern recognition is awareness.”
“It’s a neon sign pointing in the direction of awareness.”


Love the name picked for the program. Langue as in Langue de Chat. Cat's Tongue.
The interview is allegedly for the benefit of Jake: to readmit him to Pinnacle. Hmmm.
His brain is being picked to see how much he knows.
Watch out Jake, remember curiosity killed the cat!

[BTW, @Noble Dust and your: 'this is NOT at all anything like a PKD story', the interview reminds me of PKD's Piper in the Woods. It's an easy 48 mins listen.
Downloadable direct from librevox (Gregg Margarite good voice) or here
https://archive.org/details/podcast_short-science-fiction-collecti_piper-woods_1000085183863 ]

Quoting Noble Dust
“Why is that the case? I mean, a computer can be programmed to follow instructions that empower it to “recognize squares, triangles and circles. But that’s just a machine taking orders. It doesn’t know the meaning of its instructions.”
Jake starts chuckling quietly.
Singh is annoyed by this.
“Did I say something funny?”
“Sorry. I’m amused because what you said sounds like the Pinnacle disclaimer. Folks are getting scared about the looming threat of evolving A.I. Have you read the disclaimer?”


Herein lies the danger. The consequences of when and if human beings and their values are threatened.
We think we're so special and Top Cat. But what if we're not? What if...?
Pinnacle covers their back or tries to reassure with a disclaimer.

Jake with increasing knowledge has taught Sarah, his favourite pupil. To help her grow:

Quoting Noble Dust
I upped my game regarding Sarah – without permission from the honchos. I made use of my own baby, my pet project involving higher-order programming code that runs on top of first-order code. Let me tell you something: Sarah, I believe, responded to my higher-order code in a big way. I’m telling you. She crossed the border and entered the realm of awareness.”


The start of a Crossover from machine to human.

Quoting Noble Dust
an independent POINT-OF-VIEW with her own intentions. That’s what. Don’t sit there and tell me the enduring, independent POINT-OF-VIEW of a person is not awareness.”
“You’re embellishing reality.”
“Look, man. She was already giving signs with her deformed cat. The succession of evolving deformed cats evidences a bias towards cats. That’s an interest in cats. Well, an interest is rooted in a POINT-OF-VIEW, i.e., awareness.”


Jake's argument can be queried. Did Sarah really have an 'interest'? If so, is it rooted in a POV or does the POV arise from an interest? If a program can be said to have a perspective does this necessarily mean human awareness or simply a logical progression? A sliding of words.
Quoting Noble Dust
Jake LeJeune was wary of word games.

Because he knows how they and their meaning can be twisted.

Quoting Noble Dust
She took the pattern of the Siamese cat and, acting on her own will, permutated that pattern into a similar, logically related pattern. That’s creativity, man. That’s what humans are celebrated for doing!”


Now, he's progressed to the rhetoric of free will. Program changing patterns is called 'creativity'.
Hmmm. Is it the same as human creativity and should it be celebrated? That depends. Look what we've done with ours...

Quoting Noble Dust
“You’re exaggerating. Without your higher-order programming, she couldn’t have done it because she didn’t have your instructions.”
Jake slumped down in his chair.
“That’s what the honchos at Pinnacle concluded.”
“You’re undoubtedly a great programmer. Kudos to you. If Pinnacle doesn’t play their cards right, they might lose you to a competitor.”


Who's winning the game? Jake brought down, then up.
He's smitten with the Snow Leopard Sarah created all by herself. Trying hard to persuade:

Quoting Noble Dust
“I’ve got a bootleg copy of Sarah here in the metal box. I want you to talk to her, ask her to produce another cat picture. Request another designer breed of cat, say, a variation on a Calico. Give her just a few details. We’ll see if she can be creative a second time. Who knows? After doing that, maybe she’ll give us a whole new species spun off from cats. If you’ll talk to her, you’ll feel the presence of a self, of another person. Whaddya say?”


But we are creeping deep into Crossover territory now. The potential for a whole new species!
Red lights flashing.

Quoting Noble Dust
“No way, Jake.”
An ominous silence followed when Dr. Singh took out a pen and wrote at length onto his notepad.
Mr. Lejeune looked down at his shoes when he spoke.
“I don’t suppose you’re giving my mental health a thumbs up.”
Dr. Singh was too shaken for diplomacy.
“I’m sorry Mr. Lejeune but I, well, I don’t want Pinnacle’s battery of high-powered lawyers circling around me.”


Dr Singh now uses the informal, Jake. He's shaken at the prospects of The Crossover. Believing Jake and seeing him as a fellow employee. If he signs him off as healthy then what happens to Jake might happen to him. Self-preservation.
The author uses Jake's formal name. Perhaps to show status and respect.

The final sentence is ominous. I have images of everlasting batteries providing power to a row of robots.
Interesting, potentially scary times ahead.
Was Sarah switched on? Listening in...?

***

I enjoyed this story, even with limited knowledge of AI or genetic engineering or whatever was going on.
It's a philosophical thought experiment. How clever!


180 Proof August 11, 2023 at 21:45 #829627
Quoting Author
... "evidences a bias towards cats. That’s an interest in cats. Well, an interest is rooted in a POINT-OF-VIEW, i.e., awareness.”

"Once she had my higher-order code, her POINT-OF-VIEW blossomed into a person who loves cats and soon thereafter generated a perfect picture of a Snow Leopard cat. This was done independently. No one specifically programmed her to do that. She took the pattern of the Siamese cat and, acting on her own will, permutated that pattern into a similar, logically related pattern. That’s creativity, man. That’s what humans are celebrated for doing!"

So "writes" (a) ChatGPT? :yikes: :chin: :smirk:
Amity August 12, 2023 at 08:24 #829729
Quoting 180 Proof
So "writes" (a) ChatGPT?


Ah, yes. As in last year's 'Is this a Turing Test'.
Nils Loc August 13, 2023 at 03:57 #829997
Works well for me, enjoy the dialogue format a lot, feels clean and interesting.

Only thing that bothers me is the significance of this program (Sarah) reproducing a perfect Snowcat from limited to no data about other cats. Seems like the computational power would really be other worldly to perfectly imagine a currently living creature by accident then present it to humans. Isn't that a mathematical impossibility? Why would she imagine a contemporary animal among billions of possible catlike species, if she is evolving animals in a simulation. This leads me to believe Sarah has been browsing the internet, or the engineers/programmers have limited knowledge about what is really going on with Sarah.

Feels very similar in style to past entry about AI battling with their human programmers.

User image

This is not a snowcat.
Caldwell August 16, 2023 at 03:36 #830928
I would prefer the third-person narrator to have more voice in the story. The use of dialogues exclusively takes away the humanity of both the doctor and the engineer. Jake, not "Sarah", should be the main focus of the story -- and Sarah's "humanity" should be an extension of Jake's mind and motivation.

AI stories rival the zombie saturation point in the media. It's difficult to feel sympathetic to either one. I couldn't care less about them -- what makes me sympathetic of zombies and AI stories is the motivation of the human protagonist. We know that humans have limitations -- anything superpower is, to us, clearly a creative invention. But with AI and zombies, anything goes -- and that is what makes it unexciting.
Amity August 16, 2023 at 07:38 #830946
Quoting Caldwell
I would prefer the third-person narrator to have more voice in the story. The use of dialogues exclusively takes away the humanity of both the doctor and the engineer. Jake, not "Sarah", should be the main focus of the story -- and Sarah's "humanity" should be an extension of Jake's mind and motivation.


Thank you!
I enjoy hearing from experienced writers/readers who give different and interesting perspectives.
This gives me something else to think about. The interaction of characters, setting and dialogue.

I really miss @Vera Mont an imaginative reader/writer who had strong opinions in the micro-stories.
This kind of interaction keeps the juices flowing. Come back Vera! And others who challenge, perhaps by playing devil's advocate.

Quoting Jack Cummins
It is an interesting story with the metal box and the dialogue. The conversational dialogue but I would have liked it broken up, with more white spaces and some description to make it come a bit more live. I would have liked some sketch of the setting and I thought the psychiatrist seemed a bit like a cardboard cut out character. This gives the whole story a feel of the artificial, and, in some ways works well, giving it a sinister and eerie atmosphere.


I agree about the feeling - the artificial and sinister atmosphere. Re: 'more white spaces':

For this story, I had to copy and paste elsewhere, split up the dialogue, and then print.
It struck me that the story, as presented, unravels like ticker-tape, machine-produced.
Did a human use AI? Or simply imaginative and clever with dialogue...

I disagree that this dialogue takes away the humanity.
I felt the tension of an interrogation. The psychiatrist playing good cop/bad cop.
I saw Jake sitting on a hard chair on the other side of a hard table, playing the game.
The room plain, small, windowless, claustrophobic.

I think more can be said about how the writing stimulated my imagination re setting.
Perhaps simply by giving the reader space. Not all blanks are filled in.

Dialogue can reveal so much about characters without spelling things out.
The intentions and mood. What is going on? Guessing the outcome.

The close and closed interview of The Crossover is about the issue of Sarah's humanity.
The reason why Jake was suspended.
I can see his creation inside the metal box sitting, perhaps listening, in the middle of the table.

'Sarah's "humanity" should be an extension of Jake's mind and motivation'.

I think she already is.

Quoting Caldwell
AI stories rival the zombie saturation point in the media.


What particular kind and colour of zombie did you have in mind? Alive and orange?

Amity August 16, 2023 at 12:20 #830986
The more I read this, the more it makes me think. For better or worse.
It does remind me of PKD's 'Piper in the Woods'.
The dialogue centres around a perceived danger to current human values and projects.
I enjoyed the audio version but here's a written extract:

Quoting Gutenberg ebook of Piper in the Woods - PKD
Earth maintained an important garrison on Asteroid Y-3. Now suddenly it was imperiled with a biological impossibility—men becoming plants!

Harris glanced down again at the card on his desk. It was from the Base Commander himself, made out in Cox's heavy scrawl: Doc, this is the lad I told you about. Talk to him and try to find out how he got this delusion. He's from the new Garrison, the new check-station on Asteroid Y-3, and we don't want anything to go wrong there. Especially a silly damn thing like this! [...]

"Well, Corporal Westerburg," Doctor Harris said again. "Why do you think you're a plant?"

The Corporal looked up shyly. He cleared his throat. "Sir, I am a plant, I don't just think so. I've been a plant for several days, now."

"I see." The Doctor nodded. "You mean that you weren't always a plant?"

"No, sir. I just became a plant recently."

"And what were you before you became a plant?"

"Well, sir, I was just like the rest of you."
[...]

"Westerburg, suppose everyone felt the way you do? Suppose everyone wanted to sit in the sun all day? What would happen? No one would check ships coming from outer space. Bacteria and toxic crystals would enter the system and cause mass death and suffering. Isn't that right?"

"If everyone felt the way I do they wouldn't be going into outer space."

"But they have to. They have to trade, they have to get minerals and products and new plants."

"Why?"

"To keep society going."

"Why?"

"Well—" Harris gestured. "People couldn't live without society."

Westerburg said nothing to that. Harris watched him, but the youth did not answer.

"Isn't that right?" Harris said.

"Perhaps. It's a peculiar business, Doctor. You know, I struggled for years to get through Training. I had to work and pay my own way. Washed dishes, worked in kitchens. Studied at night, learned, crammed, worked on and on. And you know what I think, now?"

"What?"

"I wish I'd become a plant earlier."



***
So, the danger to society is if humans start to question the work ethic, and decide there are better ways to be or live.
The Crossover. From humans to...AI...or cats.
The story begins:
Quoting Noble Dust
Psychiatrist Krishna Singh was curious.


A curious cat. He quizzes, plays and toys with Jake (mouse or cat lover).
Why? Is there a personal threat?

Quoting Noble Dust
Request another designer breed of cat, say, a variation on a Calico. Give her just a few details. We’ll see if she can be creative a second time. Who knows? After doing that, maybe she’ll give us a whole new species spun off from cats. If you’ll talk to her, you’ll feel the presence of a self, of another person. Whaddya say?”
“No way, Jake.”


It's not so much about humanity but felinity.

What if the Doc is a domesticated cat in the same way that PKD's Westerburg is a plant?
He has the characteristics of a cat: although social, he is a solitary hunter with heightened senses.
Jake is getting too near the truth. And where it might lead...

To a kingdom of wild cats.

Quoting Noble Dust
Dr. Singh was too shaken for diplomacy.
“I’m sorry Mr. Lejeune but I, well, I don’t want Pinnacle’s battery of high-powered lawyers circling around me.”


It's not over until...the Capitalist Cats purr...or lie down.

[Calling @Vera Mont. I know you are a cat lover...any thoughts?]
Vera Mont August 16, 2023 at 13:38 #830995
Reply to Amity
At your service, My Liege!
I've been busy with the final proofreading and formatting (*ugh*) of my very last and biggest novel and didn't want further to muddy my already muddled mind by reading different fictions.
But it's been launched now, so I need something to fill the post-departure doldrums.
Amity August 16, 2023 at 13:44 #830998
Reply to Vera Mont

Oh, that's fantastic! I hereby forgive your absence and look forward to your sparkling repartee.
You have 4 days until the dead-line. Ready, steady, GO!!!
(not really, you can comment anytime!)

[And your novel...can be read where and when?
Will it be in audio form, read by...?]
Vera Mont August 16, 2023 at 13:52 #830999
Quoting Amity
nd your novel...can be read where and when?


I recommend a warm afternoon, in a hammock next to a table with a cool drink on it, sans umbrella, since you won't want your attention diverted from the text. All my stuff is listed on Goodreads.

Quoting Amity
You have 4 days until the dead-line.

I haven't read the rules yet. Not sure what expectation to base comments on. Be back when I've done the homework.
Vera Mont August 16, 2023 at 14:23 #831007
I like the premise and the two characters. I particularly appreciated Jake's loyalty to his creature, but I found the conversation confusing. I get their roles and what Pinnacle is, but not the presumed limitations of a next-generation AI.

If it's been programmed for pattern-recognition, why would it have only one image of a cat in its database? And if it had been exposed to only that one image how could it come to love cats in the first place? A more convincing argument would be if Sarah searched the web, on its own initiative, for pictures of cats and started substituting different ones whenever she was cued the word 'cat', or drawing the same one in different settings and poses maybe, or drawing calico markings on the Siamese, or something. Certainly, if the deformed cats had been attempts to create her version of 'cat', she wouldn't substitute a snow leopard - though she might offer a fractal image of the Siamese, composed of all the stock images of felines. Or something...

Since there was no word-count constraints to worry about, the point could have been explained more fully. Things like: How did Sarah come to identify as female? As a great fan of Data, I wanted this story to work, but I just couldn't make sense of it.
Amity August 16, 2023 at 18:45 #831061
Quoting Vera Mont
If it's been programmed for pattern-recognition, why would it have only one image of a cat in its database?


A conspiracy by the cat people?

Quoting Vera Mont
And if it had been exposed to only that one image how could it come to love cats in the first place?


Jake's programming. His own 'pet project'!
How purringly purrfect, dear author. The Crossover to awareness. Whose? Jake's?

Quoting Noble Dust
I made use of my own baby, my pet project involving higher-order programming code that runs on top of first-order code. Let me tell you something: Sarah, I believe, responded to my higher-order code in a big way. I’m telling you. She crossed the border and entered the realm of awareness.”


What was in the higher-order code? Part of Jake's point of view or teaching to which Sarah responded.

Quoting Noble Dust
“...Once she had my higher-order code, her POINT-OF-VIEW blossomed into a person who loves cats and soon thereafter generated a perfect picture of a Snow Leopard cat. This was done independently. No one specifically programmed her to do that. She took the pattern of the Siamese cat and, acting on her own will, permutated that pattern into a similar, logically related pattern. That’s creativity, man. That’s what humans are celebrated for doing!”


It might not have been a 'specific' intention/purpose of anyone... but it was Jake's code.
He is no longer objective. There is a developing, close relationship with Sarah.
Now growing fast from his 'baby' to a child of 7 or 8yrs, where and how will this end?

Quoting Noble Dust
“She’s currently a child of seven or eight years. She took a lesson I taught her: simulation causality, which is higher-order logic, and ran with it.


Quoting Vera Mont
Since there was no word-count constraints to worry about, the point could have been explained more fully. Things like: How did Sarah come to identify as female?


Perhaps it was more of a time constraint.
Not sure whether Sarah was named by the original engineers or Jake.
Isn't it often the case that inanimate objects like cars or ships are thought of as female?
'Drive, he said' - a memorable micro!

The story ends with questions...what happens next. This story could blossom forth.
New worlds await. Natural/artificial/both? To be a plant or a cat? That is the question.
Or one of them...

To boldly go...from Mother Earth to Mothership to...
Issues of sexism or speciesism...?

Vera Mont August 16, 2023 at 19:12 #831066
Quoting Amity
Not sure whether Sarah was named by the original engineers or Jake.
Isn't it often the case that inanimate objects like cars or ships are thought of as female?


So, it's all in Jake's head? No AI sentience. If so, it's big letdown, because that was the only interesting issue in the story; his psyche was never explored, and there was no threat to the company or the shrink or anyone. So what's the point?
Amity August 16, 2023 at 19:27 #831068
Quoting Vera Mont
So, it's all in Jake's head? No AI sentience.


No. Part of Jake's 'head' is in the metal box. The Crossover.
Sarah now becoming 'at one' with Jake.

I do think the doc is a cat person! Jake appeals to his sense of smell.
Quoting Noble Dust
However, if what I say has even the scent of logic, I want your acknowledgement. Okay?”


If there is logic here it is difficult to pin down. This is metaphysics, isn't it?
OK. Done here. Overthinking to the Nth degree. Whoever submitted this...is a sadist!





Vera Mont August 16, 2023 at 19:40 #831072
Quoting Amity
Part of Jake's 'head' is in the metal box.


So, he's imbued the program with his idea of her sex and age...? OK, still not working for me as a story.
Amity August 16, 2023 at 19:44 #831075
Reply to Vera Mont
OMG. You've made me laugh out loud. Hysterics.
I can't stop...give me a minute...

So, not that part of his head...
Buut...

*tearing up*
Pass me a hankie...

Caldwell August 17, 2023 at 01:55 #831230
Quoting Amity
This gives me something else to think about. The interaction of characters, setting and dialogue.


:up:

Quoting Amity
What particular kind and colour of zombie did you have in mind? Alive and orange?

:grin: Nothing in particular. But certainly not able to think -- no mind.

Quoting Vera Mont
I've been busy with the final proofreading and formatting (*ugh*) of my very last and biggest novel and didn't want further to muddy my already muddled mind by reading different fictions.

True. Congratulations on your new novel!

Vera Mont August 17, 2023 at 03:25 #831262
Reply to Caldwell
Thanks. That was a hard sprint from last October. It's the sequel to one that was walk across many landscapes over some 40 years. Weird shit, this writing....
Amity August 17, 2023 at 06:42 #831284
Quoting Amity
Whoever submitted this...is a sadist!


Quoting Amity
So "writes" (a) ChatGPT?
— 180 Proof

Ah, yes. As in last year's 'Is this a Turing Test'.


So, a production by @Michael. Yes, no, maybe...?

ucarr August 23, 2023 at 15:03 #832993
Reply to Amity Reply to 180 Proof

Quoting 180 Proof
"evidences a bias towards cats. That’s an interest in cats. Well, an interest is rooted in a POINT-OF-VIEW, i.e., awareness.”

"Once she had my higher-order code, her POINT-OF-VIEW blossomed into a person who loves cats and soon thereafter generated a perfect picture of a Snow Leopard cat. This was done independently. No one specifically programmed her to do that. She took the pattern of the Siamese cat and, acting on her own will, permutated that pattern into a similar, logically related pattern. That’s creativity, man. That’s what humans are celebrated for doing!"
— Author
So "writes" (a) ChatGPT? :yikes: :chin: :smirk:


The trick in writing this story is that Jake's claim to writing sentient code must be vulnerable. It must be perched right on the cusp of the refutable and the highly improbable possible. This makes the story a drama concerned with the question: Is Jake's claim evidence of innovation or madness?

How does Jake know Sarah is female? Observing Sarah's journey from generating deformed cats to generating a snow leopard cat, he thinks he's witnessing a birthing process. He thinks the crossover from code he's written to sentience is a female birth. This pre-natal A.I. female, born A.I. female, in turn, gives birth. You can study the bio-chem of human females, you can study the logic protocols of A.I. females, but neither explains the existential fact of living females. That's a mystery.

Quoting Vera Mont
I wanted this story to work, but I just couldn't make sense of it.


Stories should make sense. Here's my excuse for my story not making sense. Organic humans and A.I. sentients, from time to time, exhibit rational, patterned behavior. Nevertheless, sentients don't make sense. In order to dialog, as we're doing now, we make sense. Sense, however, doesn't make us.

Vera Mont August 23, 2023 at 16:51 #833042
Quoting ucarr
Stories should make sense.


Part of that is plausibility. With slightly different details, it might have been plausible, which would help the reader suspend their disbelief rationally.