Poem #19 by T Clark

Quoting Caldwell

I can hear him
In the next room tripping over furniture
In the kitchen, searching through drawers

I hear muffled noises through the walls
Flushing the toilet
Slamming down the phone
I hear him mumbling, yelling
Walking on the floor over my head

This is so wonderful. The sounds are so clear. Excellent.

Beautiful poem. I can hear all the sounds in my mind. It can't be considered as a "noise" when it is familiar or lovely and that's the charm of this one.

Quoting Caldwell

“Do you feel the same?”

Definitely a song-inspired poem. (And there is nothing wrong with that.) Someone in the "discussion" did say that their spark to write poetry often comes from a line or mood of a song. This took off very nicely after that initial jumping board.

Very nicely done. Deceptively simple in use of language but effective. Enjoyed.

Poem #19

What's the significance, if any, of number nineteen. Is it to show part of a catalogue...or the 19th draft...
It chimes well with the other '-ing-ings'. The doings.
The present participle hingings.

The feelings of the uncomfortable. The claustrophobia of the cellar setting. It reminds me of another story. Was it a micro?
In the attic listenings, questionings and panickings.
The thought that it might all be in the mind. The mind of one rather than 2 dialoguing:

Quoting Caldwell

You ask me, “Do you feel the same?”
And I answer, ”Well, someone does”

The question: "Do you feel the same?" is often put to a lover. I love you, do you love me?
The answer is not usually "Well, someone does". That's funny.

Quoting Caldwell

I know he does, I can hear him
In the next room tripping over furniture
In the kitchen, searching through drawers

How can people know if their feelings are the same?
By hearing ( or seeing/imagining) what they are doing? Their behaviour? Actions speak louder than.

Tripping and searching. Is this a drug thing going on?
Flushing the toilet - getting rid of evidence after a phone warning?

Sitting in darkness, hugging knees, hiding...waiting in fear and trembling for the next hit.

***

I enjoyed this, thanks! :sparkle:
There's a sound like it's taking place right now; the immediacy of the present. Ongoing angst.

Why am I reading this as a victim tied up in the basement of a serial killer?

I've come to the ridiculous conclusion that discussing literary interpretation with ChatGPT is fantastic.

Here's my discussion with it about Poem #19.

[quote=ChatGPT]"Poem #19" captures a sense of isolation and detachment while also hinting at a theme of emotional distance within relationships. Here's an interpretation of the poem:

The opening lines, "You ask me, 'Do you feel the same?' / And I answer, 'Well, someone does'," set the tone for the poem by suggesting a lack of direct connection between the speaker and the person they are addressing. The response "someone does" implies a level of emotional detachment or ambiguity.

The imagery of hearing noises in the next room, "tripping over furniture" and "searching through drawers," adds a layer of distance and separation. The sounds of someone else's actions in the household underscore the divide between the speaker and the other person.

The repeated phrase "I hear him" reinforces the idea of being distanced from the other person's actions and emotions. The muffled noises through the walls symbolize a barrier that prevents true intimacy or understanding.

The description of mundane actions like "flushing the toilet" and "slamming down the phone" juxtaposed with "mumbling, yelling" paints a picture of frustration and chaos, which contrasts with the quiet contemplation of the speaker.

The lines "Walking on the floor over my head / I hear him as I sit here in the dark" symbolize the weight of someone else's presence, both literally and metaphorically. The dark setting and the speaker's physical posture suggest a sense of vulnerability and introspection.

The ending lines, "Smelling the heating oil, / Dust settling in my hair," evoke a sensory experience that contributes to the atmosphere of solitude and stillness. The heating oil and dust settling serve as metaphors for the stagnation and unresolved emotions within the speaker.

Overall, "Poem #19" portrays a feeling of emotional separation within a relationship, highlighting the disconnect and the sense of being on the sidelines, observing from a distance. The poem captures a moment of introspection and sensory immersion in a setting that reflects the speaker's emotional state.[/quote]

I interpreted this as someone stuck in a basement held against her will. Do you think this is a possible interpretation as well?

Yes, your interpretation of the poem as someone possibly being stuck in a basement against their will is certainly valid. The imagery of being in the dark, with references to the old furnace, floor joists, and the smell of heating oil, could evoke a sense of confinement and captivity. The mention of hearing someone in the next room, the noises through the walls, and the actions like "tripping over furniture" and "searching through drawers" could allude to the presence of another person who may be keeping the speaker isolated.

The feelings of detachment and the focus on sensory experiences could be indicative of the emotional and psychological toll such a situation might take on the individual. Your interpretation adds an element of tension and distress that aligns with the theme of isolation and captivity present in the poem. It's important to note that poetry often invites multiple interpretations, and your perspective on the poem's meaning is a valid and thought-provoking one.

If you take that into consideration how would your interpretation change?

Considering the interpretation of the poem as someone being held against their will in a basement, the themes of isolation, confinement, and vulnerability become even more pronounced. Here's how the analysis could change:

The question "Do you feel the same?" takes on a different tone in this context. It could be seen as a plea for empathy or understanding from the captor, suggesting a desire to connect despite the circumstances.

The sounds of someone else's actions, such as "tripping over furniture" and "searching through drawers," could take on a more ominous quality, implying the captor's presence and activities in the adjacent room.

The repeated phrase "I hear him" might take on an eerie connotation, as it could be the captor's actions that the speaker hears but cannot fully comprehend.

The reference to "walking on the floor over my head" could emphasize the captive's awareness of the captor's movements and actions above them.

The ending lines, with the description of the sensory experiences in the dark, might symbolize the sensory deprivation and emotional turmoil the captive is experiencing in the basement.

Overall, with the interpretation of captivity, the poem takes on a more sinister and unsettling tone. It becomes a portrayal of someone who is physically confined and emotionally disconnected from the outside world, conveying their helplessness and the bleakness of their situation. Your interpretation adds layers of depth and tension that highlight the distressing aspects of the poem's themes.

I thought this interpretation was more likely because this is a numbered poem, as if this is not the first victim. If my interpretation is wrong though, what type of meaning could you ascribe to the title?

Your interpretation of the numbered poem as a representation of a potentially serial occurrence, where the poem might depict a repeated scenario with multiple victims, is a valid and intriguing perspective. The use of a numbered title, "Poem #19," could indeed suggest that this is not the first instance or victim in a series of similar situations. This would align with the darker and more mysterious themes you've described.

However, if we consider an alternative interpretation where the poem is not about captivity but rather about emotional distance within a relationship, the numbered title could imply a collection of separate, emotionally detached moments or experiences. In this context, the title might not refer to individual victims, but rather to different instances where emotional disconnect is explored through various poems.

The ambiguity of the title "Poem #19" allows for multiple interpretations. It could signify a sequential progression of themes or experiences, or it could simply indicate a numbering system used by the author for their poems without necessarily implying a specific pattern or continuity.

Ultimately, the choice of interpretation depends on the context provided by the rest of the poem and the emotional resonance it evokes for the reader. The open-endedness of the title leaves room for various meanings and adds to the intrigue and depth of the poem's themes.

Reply to Benkei

Another disturbing photo. Do not approve.

Quoting Noble Dust

Another disturbing photo. Do not approve.

That pic made me have nightmares, but the one of "Sempre" is even worse! :death:

Quoting Benkei

Why am I reading this as a victim tied up in the basement of a serial killer?

I didn't read it as that extreme, but I did read it as a victim cowering in a hidden corner as a drunk famly member stumbled around mumbling to himself, rifling through drawers, taking a piss, knocking things over, and going on frantically.

The "slamming down the phone" was a throwback line, decipherable only by those who remember when you used to hang up a phone by putting the hand unit back in place. Now if you slam down a phone, it just goes bouncing on the ground and you're like "fuck, I shouldn't have thrown my phone."

Quoting Benkei

I've come to the ridiculous conclusion that discussing literary interpretation with ChatGPT is fantastic.

I dislike literary interpretation and I'm starting to dislike ChatGPT, but I found some value in the first AI interpretation you provided, e.g.:

ChatGPT:"Poem #19" captures a sense of isolation and detachment while also hinting at a theme of emotional distance within relationships.

After reading your post I tried it out with some of my poems with mixed success. One of the things that made me laugh is that, if you provide an alternative interpretation, not matter how goofy, it takes it seriously rather than responding, as it should, "What's wrong with you. Are you on crack or something?"

Quoting Amity

How can people know if their feelings are the same?
By hearing ( or seeing/imagining) what they are doing? Their behaviour? Actions speak louder than.

Yes! A good one. The narrator equates the noises/sounds with how the person in the next room feels.

You ask me, “Do you feel the same?”
And I answer, ”Well, someone does”
I know he does, I can hear him

I'm not sure about the opening line -- I would have loved to know more.

To some extent, I see this an anti-poem. At times, poetry can seem a bit offputting as being the flowery use of language and this poem could be seen as a protest against this with its noise and vibrancy of the senses, especially the 'flushing of the toilet' . l think it works as a postmodern poem.

Quoting Jack Cummins

l think it works as a postmodern poem.

I read that as postmortem because I don't think this poem ends well...

Reply to Benkei
An interesting parallel between postmodernism and postmortem because postmodernism can be viewed as the postmortem of history, with anything but 'everything ends well". Therefore, I am not sure that a postmodern poem should have a 'good ending'.

I have never been attracted to the postmodern in the visual arts on an aesthetic basis but, in a way, the rough edges of a postmodern poem may be a way of expressing philosophy in a broken down mode. The narrator, hugging knees and smelling dusty and oil in hair may involve the juxtaposition of a chaotic inner world and uncertain future.

First, the person who does feel is in the next room, then he's on the floor above. I get the impression that someone has asked the narrator whether he/she agrees with the questioner's conclusion about some vital issue, rather than whether their feelings have altered over time. The narrator doesn't know how they feel, but knows that the cause of the problem has not altered; is still malevolent. And that person is blundering about in a drunken rage, so the narrator escapes to the basement, rather than face him.
It's vague and inconclusive as a story, but I liked the pace, cadence and realism of the poem.

Quoting Noble Dust

This is so wonderful. The sounds are so clear. Excellent.

Quoting javi2541997

Beautiful poem. I can hear all the sounds in my mind. It can't be considered as a "noise" when it is familiar or lovely and that's the charm of this one.

Quoting Baden

Very nicely done. Deceptively simple in use of language but effective. Enjoyed.

Quoting Amity

I enjoyed this, thanks! :sparkle:

Quoting Vera Mont

I liked the pace, cadence and realism of the poem.

Thank you. This means a lot to me.

Quoting god must be atheist

Definitely a song-inspired poem. (And there is nothing wrong with that.) Someone in the "discussion" did say that their spark to write poetry often comes from a line or mood of a song. This took off very nicely after that initial jumping board.

Sorry, no song. But there was a spark. I'll discuss that more in a comment at the bottom. Thanks.

Quoting Amity

Poem #19

What's the significance, if any, of number nineteen.

There is no poetic meaning to the title. If a title doesn't jump out at me, I often just number my poems.

Quoting Amity

The question: "Do you feel the same?" is often put to a lover. I love you, do you love me?

Quoting Amity

Tripping and searching. Is this a drug thing going on?
Flushing the toilet - getting rid of evidence after a phone warning?

Quoting Amity

waiting in fear and trembling for the next hit.

These certainly weren't in my mind when I was writing. I'll discuss how I think about the poem - where it came from - in a post at the bottom.

Quoting Benkei

Why am I reading this as a victim tied up in the basement of a serial killer?

It's certainly not something I had in mind while writing.

Quoting Benkei

I've come to the ridiculous conclusion that discussing literary interpretation with ChatGPT is fantastic.

As I wrote in a previous response to this post, I enjoyed Chat GPT's "thoughts" about the poem.

Quoting Benkei

I thought this interpretation was more likely because this is a numbered poem

As I noted in my post to @Amity, I number poems when I am too lazy to name them, so it has no poetic significance.

Reply to Benkei

I will put my own thoughts about the poem in a post at the bottom.

Quoting Hanover

I did read it as a victim cowering in a hidden corner as a drunk famly member stumbled around mumbling to himself, rifling through drawers, taking a piss, knocking things over, and going on frantically.

I was not thinking about this while I was writing, but in a cockeyed kind of way it has some truth in it. I discuss this more in a summary post at the bottom.

Quoting Hanover

The "slamming down the phone" was a throwback line, decipherable only by those who remember when you used to hang up a phone by putting the hand unit back in place.

Good point. I hadn't thought of it. Let's just think of it a a charming throwback to less complicated times. Or something poetic like that.

Quoting Jack Cummins

To some extent, I see this an anti-poem. At times, poetry can seem a bit offputting as being the flowery use of language and this poem could be seen as a protest against this with its noise and vibrancy of the senses, especially the 'flushing of the toilet' . l think it works as a postmodern poem.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Anti-poem? Hmm... I thought it was a very poemy poem. I never would have thought of it as post-modern. My favorites of my own poems come from visual, sensual, metaphorical images. They don't have much intellectual content. They tend to be stream-of-consciousness. They often write themselves, at least the first drafts.

I'll discuss this more in a final post.

Quoting Vera Mont

First, the person who does feel is in the next room, then he's on the floor above. I get the impression that someone has asked the narrator whether he/she agrees with the questioner's conclusion about some vital issue, rather than whether their feelings have altered over time. The narrator doesn't know how they feel, but knows that the cause of the problem has not altered; is still malevolent. And that person is blundering about in a drunken rage, so the narrator escapes to the basement, rather than face him.

It's vague and inconclusive as a story, but I liked the pace, cadence and realism of the poem.

I think there is some truth in what you've written, although it wasn't going through my mind as I wrote or as I reread it later. Yes, it definitely is inconclusive. I guess I don't really see it as a story at all. More of a snapshot of a moment in time. For me, it has more emotional, sensual content than narrative or intellectual.

I'll write more about this in a final post.

@Noble Dust, @javi2541997, @Benkei, @Caldwell, @Amity, @Hanover, @god must be atheist, @Vera Mont, @Jack Cummins, @Baden,

Again, thank you for your comments. I have written before about my aversion to interpretation or explication of art, including poetry. I don't think poetry means anything. At the risk of sounding high falutin, here's a quote from "The Principles of Art" by R.G. Collingwood that I like.

R.G. Collingwood - The Principles of Art:What is meant by saying that the painter 'records' in his picture the experience which he had in painting it? With this question we come to the subject of the audience, for the audience consists of anybody and everybody to whom such records are significant.

It means that the picture, when seen by some one else or by the painter himself subsequently, produces in him (we need not ask how) sensuous-emotional or psychical experiences which, when raised from impressions to ideas by the activity of the spectator's consciousness, are transmuted into a total imaginative experience identical with that of the painter. This experience of the spectator's does not repeat the comparatively poor experience of a person who merely looks at the subject; it repeats the richer and more highly organized experience of a person who has not only looked at it but has painted it as well.

So, for me and Collingwood, poetry is an attempt by the poet to allow the reader to share the experience he is trying to express in the poem. Obviously, sometimes the poet is successful and sometimes not. So, what was the experience I was trying to share in "Poem #19?" I'm glad you asked.

I don't remember what I was thinking about when it happened, but suddenly I saw this image of myself sitting on a bed in a bedroom, not in any house I recognized. I could hear someone making loud noises from the other side of the wall where I knew the kitchen was just like I described in the poem. And I knew that the person making the noise was me. And that's it. Then the poem wrote itself, at least the first draft.

I don't get any sense fear or threat from the poem. I don't think I was in any danger. I guess maybe I wasn't hiding, more like staying out of the way. The feel of the poem is the feel of sitting in the basement. My back to the old furnace/Looking up at the floor joists/Hugging my knees/Smelling the heating oil/Dust settling in my hair. Noise upstairs but still where I was sitting. I think @Benkei's Chat GPT had that part of it right:

ChatGPT:The opening lines, "You ask me, 'Do you feel the same?' / And I answer, 'Well, someone does'," set the tone for the poem by suggesting a lack of direct connection between the speaker and the person they are addressing. The response "someone does" implies a level of emotional detachment or ambiguity.

The imagery of hearing noises in the next room, "tripping over furniture" and "searching through drawers," adds a layer of distance and separation. The sounds of someone else's actions in the household underscore the divide between the speaker and the other person.

But, of course, that feeling of distance and separation is from myself. That's not really a bad feeling. It's a bit melancholy, but interesting. I've said many times here that my goal in life is to become more self-aware. Watching myself, listening, without judgment. Paying attention, being interested. Maybe a bit humorous. After all, here I am sitting quietly, peacefully, in the basement while he thrashes around like an idiot.

I really like this poem and especially the last verse and especially the last three lines:

Hugging my knees
Smelling the heating oil,
Dust settling in my hair.

That is so evocative, sensual to me.

It is a beautiful poem actually, sorry I did not get around to vote. It is probably my favorite. It is interesting just while I was writing I noticed T Clark's interpretation. To me it does feel like the person searching is the same as the person sitting in the dark. It is like he himself is probing places where the protagonist sitting does not really want to go. He is hiding while he himself also does the searching. Very intriguing.

For somereason I cannot reference you so I will do it like this. Quoting T Clark

I really like this poem and especially the last verse and especially the last three lines:

The three lines close the poem really well I feel. It is a dream like atmosphere a bit child like too like I thought Amity's poem was.

Quoting T Clark

suddenly I saw this image of myself sitting on a bed in a bedroom, not in any house I recognized. I could hear someone making loud noises from the other side of the wall where I knew the kitchen was just like I described in the poem.And I knew that the person making the noise was me

Quoting T Clark

I've said many times here that my goal in life is to become more self-aware.Watching myself, listening, without judgment. Paying attention, being interested. Maybe a bit humorous. After all, here I am sitting quietly, peacefully, in the basement while he thrashes around like an idiot.

Quoting Tobias

To me it does feel like the person searching is the same as the person sitting in the dark. It is like he himself is probing places where the protagonist sitting does not really want to go. He is hiding while he himself also does the searching. Very intriguing.

Yes. That says more than my earlier response, passed over by @T Clark:

Quoting Amity

The feelings of the uncomfortable. The claustrophobia of the cellar setting. It reminds me of another story. Was it a micro?
In the attic listenings, questionings and panickings.
The thought that it might all be in the mind. The mind of one rather than 2 dialoguing:

Listening and questioning self. No panic in this poem, simply keeping a watchful eye.
A semi-detached listener/seeker.

Quoting Tobias

The three lines close the poem really well I feel. It is a dream like atmosphere a bit child like too like I thought Amity's poem was.

Thank you. Your thoughts mean a lot to me.

Quoting Amity

passed over by T Clark:

I didn't pass over your comments. The explication I wrote was intended as a response to you in particular as well several others who had specific comments.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Reply to T Clark To clarify:
In your particular and personal reply to my comments, you excluded the one most relevant. There was no positive acknowledgement, from you, in that post.

I understand your final, general explication, your own thoughts about the poem, was kept until last. It was most revealing.

Thanks for submitting your lovely poem. Also, the time and energy you spent in discussion. Much appreciated.

Quoting Tobias

For somereason I cannot reference you so I will do it like this.

Yes, if you write "T Clark" anywhere, it won't give you a drop down list with my user name in it. If you just type it in, though, I will get the notification. Pain in the ass, but I like the name.