Duct Tape by 180 Proof
The rain had stopped miles before she noticed. 0348 on the dashboard and the highway was empty and dark except for her high beams. The man had finally fallen asleep it seemed worn-out from struggling against the restraints around his arms and legs and a duct taped gag in his mouth that muffled alternating pleas and rage. The driver jonesed hard for nicotine, and the fuel display was less than a quarter tank. She hadn't passed an open gas station or truck stop for hours. Should've chanced it at that last pull off, she thought, despite those two highway patrol cars. Stupid bitch.
The shoulder on this stretch of road widened enough for her to turn off onto gravel that seemed level in the dark. The car idled while she peed. New moon, cloudless velvet sky of stars, high desert rainwater smell rising like steam off the asphalt. Squatting with vehicle and passenger between her and the empty highway, her eyes adjusted to the night world of saguaro silhouettes and sounds of unseen critters seeing her. Buenos noches, viejos, she nodded to them, then whispered as she stood, y putas también. No doubt he also had to pee but was much too heavy for her to lift and get him out and then back in again without incident. The car door slam didn't seem to wake him anyway. She checked her cell again but it was still dead. Gas, smokes and a fucking charger, she cussed as the car rolled slowly back onto the asphalt spitting gravel. Up ahead a coyote dashed through her high beams. Pinche bruja, she sneered, and gunned the engine.
The highway rolled on through the tunnel of her headlights and hours crawled towards false dawn in her rearview mirror. His reflection stared at her's silently. She defiantly met his bloodshot gaze. Nearly out of gas, gas station up a head 15 miles, and then flashing lights of a highway patrol car suddenly filled her rearview. 0613. Dayshift, she muttered, I'm this asshole's first get. The passenger's eyes were still on her. Mierde. She pulled the car onto the shoulder and waited, hoping the cop was a smoker.
Suddenly the car was flooded with white light from behind over her left shoulder. The cop told her to shut off the engine and step out of the vehicle. The driver hesitated not taking her eyes off of the passenger's bloodshots in the mirror. Slowly she opened the door and then stood beside the car blinded briefly by the patrolman's flashlight until he pointed it directly into the backseat also blinding a large, flush faced man wrapped in duct tape. The officer's light lingered a moment and then he pointed it down out of her eyes, illuminating shadows across the bruised and blistered face of a young dark-eyed woman with thick dark hair loosely played with by desert breezes. They both smelled more rain coming though the sky was still clear.
"Well, mam."
"Yes?"
"Apparently you're in a hurry this morning. I clocked you going 77."
"Yes. I'm almost out of gas. And I need smokes."
"License and registration."
"No. It's his car."
She gestured with a slight nod to the car. The patrolman, keeping the heavy duty flashlight pointed down, looked into the backseat again at the man who now agitated and growled through the gag threatening the patrolman with an almost feral look. Killer's eyes, the cop thought and looked back at the way the driver held herself upright against vehicle. The tangled hair over her eyes darkened the beaten swollen face.
"You're not from here."
"No", he said.
"Never seen a black cop near the border."
"My wife's from Yuma."
A tractor trailer blew its horn and then rumbled on by kicking up dust and gravel. It'd been hours since she'd seen a truck going in either direction.
"Deputy", the cop said and switched off his flashlight.
"I'm not from down here either. They brought me here like eight years ago from New York City."
"He's one of them."
The woman nodded.
"Gas station up ahead."
"I was going there now."
She pulled her hair back out of her face.
The deputy walked around the back of the vehicle and then opened the passenger-side back door. She didn't move but thought about running because she had to pee again. She heard the back door slam shut and he came back around the vehicle, a little winded.
"Get back in the vehicle, mam. Go get gas. I assume you've got money "
"His."
"Go fill up your tank," he said looking up and down the empty twilit road. "Smokes and whatever else you need. Then as soon as you can, drive to the nearest bus station and abandon the vehicle."
The woman stared at his dark face and he thought she might have misunderstood him. She faintly smiled then looking away across the desert.
"Leave him be. He's my passenger now. Okay?"
The deputy backed away as she stepped into the car and finally drove away after a couple of false starts, her passenger still agitated with killer's eyes filled with panic on the side of the road.
The shoulder on this stretch of road widened enough for her to turn off onto gravel that seemed level in the dark. The car idled while she peed. New moon, cloudless velvet sky of stars, high desert rainwater smell rising like steam off the asphalt. Squatting with vehicle and passenger between her and the empty highway, her eyes adjusted to the night world of saguaro silhouettes and sounds of unseen critters seeing her. Buenos noches, viejos, she nodded to them, then whispered as she stood, y putas también. No doubt he also had to pee but was much too heavy for her to lift and get him out and then back in again without incident. The car door slam didn't seem to wake him anyway. She checked her cell again but it was still dead. Gas, smokes and a fucking charger, she cussed as the car rolled slowly back onto the asphalt spitting gravel. Up ahead a coyote dashed through her high beams. Pinche bruja, she sneered, and gunned the engine.
The highway rolled on through the tunnel of her headlights and hours crawled towards false dawn in her rearview mirror. His reflection stared at her's silently. She defiantly met his bloodshot gaze. Nearly out of gas, gas station up a head 15 miles, and then flashing lights of a highway patrol car suddenly filled her rearview. 0613. Dayshift, she muttered, I'm this asshole's first get. The passenger's eyes were still on her. Mierde. She pulled the car onto the shoulder and waited, hoping the cop was a smoker.
Suddenly the car was flooded with white light from behind over her left shoulder. The cop told her to shut off the engine and step out of the vehicle. The driver hesitated not taking her eyes off of the passenger's bloodshots in the mirror. Slowly she opened the door and then stood beside the car blinded briefly by the patrolman's flashlight until he pointed it directly into the backseat also blinding a large, flush faced man wrapped in duct tape. The officer's light lingered a moment and then he pointed it down out of her eyes, illuminating shadows across the bruised and blistered face of a young dark-eyed woman with thick dark hair loosely played with by desert breezes. They both smelled more rain coming though the sky was still clear.
"Well, mam."
"Yes?"
"Apparently you're in a hurry this morning. I clocked you going 77."
"Yes. I'm almost out of gas. And I need smokes."
"License and registration."
"No. It's his car."
She gestured with a slight nod to the car. The patrolman, keeping the heavy duty flashlight pointed down, looked into the backseat again at the man who now agitated and growled through the gag threatening the patrolman with an almost feral look. Killer's eyes, the cop thought and looked back at the way the driver held herself upright against vehicle. The tangled hair over her eyes darkened the beaten swollen face.
"You're not from here."
"No", he said.
"Never seen a black cop near the border."
"My wife's from Yuma."
A tractor trailer blew its horn and then rumbled on by kicking up dust and gravel. It'd been hours since she'd seen a truck going in either direction.
"Deputy", the cop said and switched off his flashlight.
"I'm not from down here either. They brought me here like eight years ago from New York City."
"He's one of them."
The woman nodded.
"Gas station up ahead."
"I was going there now."
She pulled her hair back out of her face.
The deputy walked around the back of the vehicle and then opened the passenger-side back door. She didn't move but thought about running because she had to pee again. She heard the back door slam shut and he came back around the vehicle, a little winded.
"Get back in the vehicle, mam. Go get gas. I assume you've got money "
"His."
"Go fill up your tank," he said looking up and down the empty twilit road. "Smokes and whatever else you need. Then as soon as you can, drive to the nearest bus station and abandon the vehicle."
The woman stared at his dark face and he thought she might have misunderstood him. She faintly smiled then looking away across the desert.
"Leave him be. He's my passenger now. Okay?"
The deputy backed away as she stepped into the car and finally drove away after a couple of false starts, her passenger still agitated with killer's eyes filled with panic on the side of the road.
Comments (137)
I had to look up 'to jones for'! Now, I know.
I enjoyed the real-life observation of the desperation to pee. The way she calls herself a stupid bitch, that resonates. She's hard on herself.
Quoting Noble Dust
Ah, all the senses engaged; lovely and fun with the contrasts. Not only high desert rainwater steaming.
'The car idled while she peed'. No rushing her, the car waits patiently.
She answers the call of nature and speaks to it...seems the sensitive sort.
Except she doesn't like coyotes much. Why? Is she superstitious...did she try to run it down...?
Quoting Noble Dust
Love the description of the slow movement of time and motion, on and on:
Quoting Noble Dust
Also, the exact time details. Right from the start: 0348, and then Quoting Noble Dust
She knows cop patterns. A criminal... or just hyper-aware of the dangers of being stopped by them.
Quoting Noble Dust
They seem like kindred spirits; knowing the ways of life, like racism and oppression?
The cop judges the situation by the look of the flush-faced (?white) man duct-taped.
The man's voice removed by the woman, leaving only 'killer's eyes'.
The cop is simpicato with the young bruised dark-eyed woman with thick dark hair.
She engages with him to gain a level of trust; nice quick dialogue:
Quoting Noble Dust
The woman is still anxious, feeling the need to pee or run. Then:
Quoting Noble Dust
Why 'winded'? Is he overweight, out of condition, asthmatic...or has he been engaging in a little exercise...?
Quoting Noble Dust
Unusual advice from a cop and the checking to make sure there are no witnesses.
Quoting Noble Dust
The deputy is now in control of the duct tape. Say nothing. It's our secret.
Quoting Noble Dust
At the mercy of the exercised cop. The man no longer in the woman's car but heaved to the ground.
No wonder he is panicking...
***
An excellent read, thanks! A most definite: 'I enjoyed it' :clap: :fire: :cool:
A simpatico, 'rogue' cop who took control of the situation. Justice served, or not. A bit 'iffy'...
This was a bit of a stretch for my credulity too tbh. Feel like I need a bit more convincing at least. And I'm sure there are ways to do that without disturbing the overall structure..
The story is underwritten with a lot of context missing. Or maybe just too short. I'd like it to be a page or two longer on the front end. I think the ambiguity is overplayed.
Perhaps but that's what I like about it! It leaves room for the imagination...I enjoy a puzzle!
:up:
:lol:
Quoting Jamal
What can I say? I can't puzzle over gaps? :chin:
This describes what I was missing. Thanks!
Quoting 180 Proof
:up:
Given the time constraints, I think the author did exceptionally well.
Quoting Author
Is the patrolman telling the driver his wife is on the force, or is he addressing the driver as "Deputy," either knowing or figuring she's undercover working a hardened case she's going to terminate without due process?
Quoting Amity
The driver doesn't give the hard case a pee break because he's too big and heavy to move in and out of the car. The patrolman, I figure, after moving the big guy, felt a little winded.
Quoting Author
Beautiful line of english prose, capped by anthropomorphized desert breezes.
I was feeling confident this one is a contender, until I looked at the score; maybe there's still time and votes to kick it into the winner's circle.
Funny, this particular one bothered me. "Illuminating shadows"? Shadows are not illuminated. "loosely played with by desert breezes". Is this really what the cop will notice as he is shining his flashlight over her face? He must have the soul of a poet!
Yeah. But I don't read the sentence as "illuminating shadows" per se but, in context, slightly elided ...
Quoting Author
... shadows moving that's what is illuminated as he moves the flashlight down / away. Still bothers me, too impressionistic.
Quoting hypericin
Who author or deputy?
Quoting ucarr
Nice catch.
Yeah, I'm with 180 in how I read that. No issue.
I did wonder whether the woman was a cop, given that she knew the shift patterns.
The 'cop' was making sure the woman knew he was a deputy, so he had more authority.
Quoting Noble Dust
Quoting ucarr
Yes. I hope so. It's right up there!
Just had a look.
10 votes with 60% giving it a mere OK. Really?
Down with the polls, I say, come the revolution...
Quoting Noble Dust
:up:
180's got a bead on it.
Quoting Author
Quoting 180 Proof
Yeah. With the merger of light and shadows, shadows are partially illuminated by the light and they are partially providing illumination to the face, i.e., figuratively denoting the face's battered condition in the noir tradition of the play of shadow and light.
If we had "creating" instead of "illuminating," the meaning would be more clear, but also more simple.
The deputy. Would an a actual cop, shining a flashlight on the face of a battered woman, at night, notice her hair "loosely played with by desert breezes"? To me it feels like a stock literary phrase applied in a context where it makes no sense.
And yeah I guess you can "illuminate shadows" in a impressionistic sense, moving or static. But that usage doesn't seem consonant with the rest of the piece.
Just little details either way, but they matter.
To give the sentence (underlined) context:
Quoting Noble Dust
Reading from the beginning. We follow the woman driver's anxieties as a brilliant floodlight is being shone on the situation.
First, the car was lit up, then after she exited the car she was blinded but only briefly.
The light from the cop's torch turned full focus on the backseat where it blinded the passenger.
Lingered so that the deputy got the picture.
Then back to the woman. This time, there was consideration - no more blinding.
The light played in a less forensic way. 'Down out of her eyes'.
There is a poetry. And this comes from the author not the policeman.
The author illuminates or enlightens the reader.
With a wonderful description. We can see damage to the woman's face 'bruised and blistered'.
And contrast this ugliness with beauty. Of the woman's eyes and hair in the air of the desert.
The feel of the wind and the smell of future rain.
Perhaps a darkness, or a cleansing after the light...
Edit: the story came from both dark and light:
***
Quoting hypericin
For me, the impression is perfect. The picture painted, the senses filled.
The depiction of light and its changing qualities.
All down to the author. To be congratulated.
I think that people understandably have preferences. But in this Event, I think more time and patience could/should be taken to read or re-read. It's someone's 'baby' - handle with care and attention. As if it were your own.
You don't have to be a noir fiction fan to enjoy this story.
For example, dismissing a genre, like haiku, without an understanding of what it is. Not giving it a fair hearing, is that good practice?
Some are in too much of a hurry to comment, cast a vote and be done with it.
Before any discussion has taken place, they've made up their minds on a first impression.
I think polling should wait until nearer the end of the creative competition/event.
Quoting Benkei
It doesn't make sense to me. How is it 'a bit too careful'?
Quoting Baden
Agreed. The story deserves a bit more than "It's OK".
What kind of additions?
I agree.
And that is why the voting system is rubbish.
It doesn't reflect the quality of a story, or poem.
That was only my feeling and as it is merely subjective I may be entirely wrong! As for additions, that would come down to the author's imagination as it is about that particular worldview. But, it may that I like it and, therefore, wish for more...I am not sure whether to vote as liking it, or as it okay,. I may need to read again before voting.
Here's the thing. I have to thank @ucarr and @hypericin for their different perspectives.
It meant I re-read the paragraph and I saw the light, as it were. Also elsewhere. See [*]
It's instructive to me just how important re-reading and discussion are to a better understanding.
Quoting hypericin
***
Quoting hypericin
The word 'impressionistic' led me to consider 'Impressionism'.
I enjoy Impressionistic art but had never really considered the element of light. And yet, that is important for many artists, as you will know. It made me look again at this:
Quoting Amity
Fair enough but I completely failed to fully engage, appreciate and comment accordingly:
'New moon, cloudless velvety sky of stars...' - now, I think of Van Gogh!
The appreciation of the setting by the woman. I had looked up 'saguaro' and thought I could imagine the scene.
The woman was in the moment, 'adjusting to the night world'.
Silhouettes and sounds emerging - light affecting the eyes.
The author's vision and imagery. The desert scene captured in careful, creative use of language.
For an artist's impression:
'Saguro Sherbit':
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/desert-landscape-painting-of-saguaro-cactus-by-impressionist-artist-erin-hanson--402509285439064343/
I re-read the story and revisited its parts several times, more than I thought I would.
Thanks to others leading me to "Aha!" moments.
For me, that's what this Event is all about.
@Jack Cummins: If you conclude that this story is only OK, I don't know what else I can say...
Other than I should re-evaluate your story, so obviously yours!
I won't because I did enjoy reading it, but... this is where the voting system falls down.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Of course, individual interpretations are subjective and are 'right' for them.
However, a critique of a story includes more than a subjective feeling.
Your evaluation asking for 'additions' seemed to demand something more concrete.
To bring out its 'potential'.
What do you mean by it is 'about that particular worldview'? The setting or a way of seeing the world?
Either way, additions don't necessarily lead to improvement.
As the saying goes: 'Less can be more' and, in general, 'Quality is better than Quantity'.
Yes, clearly any additions would be down to the author, but the question is:
What kind of addition would make a difference to you?
To give examples is more constructive than meaningless hand-waving.
I agree that my comment may have been 'meaningless handwaving' and, if anything it shows how difficult writing constructive reviews is. Sometimes, when I read others' writing or listen to it, I find that I don't know what to say. It does not mean that there is anything wrong with it but more may be about the establishment of connection with the writing.
I am not sure that the writing does need more and, definitely, quantity is less important than quality. That may be where the fine art of short stories comes in, as opposed to novels and, I read more novels.
I am also having a little bit of difficulty with the issue of the subjective aspects of appreciation, especially the voting categories of like and okay. That is because I am not sure that it is that simple. There be a recognition of quality independent of liking. For example, I see 'Okay Computer', by Radiohead as a brilliantly crafted album but I am not sure if I like it that much. But, I don't wish to go off into a tangent, so I apologise to the author of 'Duct Tape' for such diversion.
I agree that writing constructive reviews must be difficult.
You were kind not to point out that I don't even attempt a formal critique.
I've reflected on that. It's about different approaches and styles.
Here, there seems to be a good mix in the feedback, including yours which isn't meaningless at all.
Just that here, without examples, it might not mean anything to the author.
I've reflected on my ignorance re Critique.
This was helpful:
https://www.scribophile.com/academy/how-to-write-a-great-critique
Quoting Jack Cummins
Interesting reflection.
But you've written more short stories and have participated in writing groups.
There has been mutual criticism, so you know the score. The criteria.
What can be done, if anything, to improve the quality.
I rely too much on quoting from the text, but that is only to let me examine it more closely.
And give examples. But I know I should cut down on that, and paraphrase.
Always learning.
It is all a learning process and I certainly hope that my feedback has improved from the first competition. In a way, it is easier to give feedback here than in writing groups where everything is in the spontaneity of the moment. I guess that is why I am trying not to rush the process and wait until nearer the deadline to vote.
I'm sure it has we're all learning, Jack except for Amity who's been a brilliant reviewer / reader from the start.
I wish I could restrain myself until I've reread a story at least once but the impulse to respond to my first impression is reflexive. I'm sure I've been "unfair" to some stories which read better a second or third time than the first. My problem is the more I reread my own scribble the less I like it; likewise, I miss whatever qualities which might be uncovered by charitable or nuanced rereading.
Quoting Amity
:flower:
Im the same way.
The art of reading the work of others and self criticism is intricate because it involves projective processes and one's sense of self esteem and self worth. I am not trying to be too psychoanalytic here but thinking of how people differ in their attitudes. It is possible to be have an overinflated ego or lack of confidence in one's abilities, especially regarding writing ability.
So, when writing critiques it is not simply about pointing out ways stories can be improved, although that is important in it's own right. But, what is vital is that the criticism is such that it does not leave someone demoralised to the point where they give up entirely, with a sense of failure. That is where it is a fine line.
Certainly, I hope that I never give criticism in that way. For example, I see so much that is great in this story and think that it may have been better if I had not said the story may need 'additions' because it was an extremely vague remark which was based on my own stream of consciousness while reading. Speaking without having something significant to say may be worse than not saying anything at all. If may go back to Wittgenstein's emphasis on the when on the importance of 'silence' if one is not certain...
To me it's all subjectivity. Different viewpoints can open up new avenues of thought both while interpreting and when writing the next story. I don't like English haiku but I can still consciously tilt away from that dislike and try out a different way of looking at it. I'm the zombie story, several, including you, pointed out it isn't your thing. It can't get more subjective than that.
Writers should just realise there's no pleasing everyone, except maybe yourself in the enjoyment of writing. Negative comments will never stop me from writing.
While taste is subjective it can also depend on one's mood. Actually, it is not that I dislike the zombie story but had loads of stress on the day I read it which coloured my perception. I find that I hop from genre to genre in literature and the music according to inner states. It is as if my perception of colour, sounds and so much more varies according to mental states. I am not saying that there are no constants of identity beyond this, but it may come down to the phenomenology of perception itself.
As for quality and creative expression it is such a complex area. I studied art therapy and did struggle with making art as a therapeutic activity because I did tend to look towards the art as an end in itself. Recently, I have been to some creative writing activities which are 'Writing For Wellbeing' focused. That may be one of the reasons why I am struggling to evaluate the stories (and poems). Writing as expression and writing to be read are separate, but there is a strong overlap. I would say that I think that all the stories here are worth reading and I have more of a block on knowing how to vote than anything else!
Yes. Of course, when it comes to stating personal preferences, subjectivity plays a major role.
That's its very nature.
I try hard not to be caged by habit or fixed ways of thinking. That is the challenge to be met.
As you say, 'tilting away from personal dislike'. Is that not being objective? Keeping a distance to try and make a fair judgment, not influenced by bias.
Quoting Amity
It's about getting over that initial impression or feeling of 'that's not for me'...to let go.
Grab the chance of all on offer. It's free, no cost to yourself...other than time/effort but the gains...
A matter of taste can restrict you to a diet of toast and tomatoes every morning.
There's nothing wrong with that but, hell, there's more to life.
Quoting Benkei
Yes, I appreciate the change in interpretation as a result. The subjective giving way to the objective.
An objective analysis was reached.
The comments brief, no obvious subjective appreciation of the emotions, secreted in the poem.
It's not just different strokes but a way of being.
A subjective feeling can be overruled by cool, detached objective thinking.
Quoting Benkei
So, you identify yourself as the zombie story; you invested time and effort in the writing.
You deserve feedback. That's a subjective feel.
The story to be read. That's text to be analysed, subjectively and objectively.
You are right, I did point out it wasn't my thing. I also said that I would give it a go.
I agree it wasn't much of a go. But it was all I had, at that time.
As a result, my feedback was scant and didn't include all that I felt, including the positive. My bad. Sorry.
Quoting Benkei
I'm glad that you're not put off by negative comments. Sometimes, they can stimulate. It depends.
I hope to return to your story to give it the attention it deserves.
But this is taking over the current story, unfair to the author.
No, that's actually autocorrect. It was supposed to be "in".
:up:
With your attention to detail? I find that difficult to believe but I will.
Anyway, it makes no difference to the argument. It's about 'the author' and the story. Any.
The cop, a transplanted deputy with no skin in the border games, took sides. He arrested the passenger and let the woman go. We can only speculate as to which "them" the big man in the back seat was one of - drug-smuggler, gun-runner, human trafficker, organized crime enforcer? - but we surmise, as the deputy did, that he'd been abusing the woman. Probably over a protracted period: she'd coarsened in the experience, but had retained enough humanity to refrain from killing him when she had the chance. I would have liked a hint as to to how the woman got the better of him, but we never find out. The deputy doesn't ask: he feels, the less he knows, the less he'll need lie. Where she intended to take her prisoner, we never find out. She took a lot of trouble and risk to transport him, so my guess is, to her own people to deal with as a wronged community.
Like the cop, I'm content not to know all sordid details; I'm satisfied with the outcome.
Finally. Worth the wait for this perfect feedback!
Although.... I don't know that the deputy necessarily arrested the passenger in the conventional way.
I get the distinct impression he wasn't taken into custody. That would involve too many explanations and the passenger might have had friends in high places.
I think a kind of rough, frontier justice was meted out.
The way the woman smiled as she looked out over the expanse of desert:
Quoting Noble Dust
I can imagine the passenger's painful, slow death...sunstroke, dehydration, snakes...
Lovely to read this comment. Patient re-reading with reasons for the change of mind.
To be applauded.
I guess it depends. If he's a known gangster - "one of them" suggests this is the case - taking hi in is no problem. His identity would have to be ascertained before the decision was taken. Once in the jail cell, is this big tough guy going to protest that he was hog-tied by an ill-gotten Mexican girl, not the big strong Black deputy?
Quoting Amity
No, this decent, sympathetic policeman wouldn't do that to his worst enemy, let alone some stranger the extent of whole wrongdoing he doesn't even know. He might shoot the guy and lose the corpse out there, but he won't torture.
Good points well made.
Edit:
Then again...after taking a second look, the patrolman does know what this man is capable of. He believes that the passenger will be set free. To kill again.
Quoting Noble Dust
Quoting Vera Mont
Lose how? Guns, bullets, forensics...burying...no, all too much time and trouble to dig or to carry.
Whatever...
It is strange how different times of reading give a different perspective. I don't know whether this applies to many other people or not. However, that is why I waited to vote this time and I do wonder about the suggestion of a reading time initially before voting. This may also be a reading time for reflection, without making comments, because it is hard when reading the stories for the first time not be influenced at all by others' judgements.
Quite so! I never read comments before posting my own. Of course, that means some duplication and I may have to do a couple of edits. (I love the edit feature here! I make so many typing errors and omissions, I hardly ever get a post right in one go.) If I really like story, I know I like it immediately, no hesitation, though I may re-read it for details to comment on, or just for the pleasure of it. If I hate on first sight, that's unlikely to change. But there are some about which I'm undecided, conflicted or confused, and those always require a second reading, maybe a third.
Vigilante readership...
Quoting Amity
Good point. If he was a wife beater, a rapist or whatever other kind of malfeasant, the proof one may have against him is now lost. There will be no other option then setting him free.
Big empty desert, handy rocks, understaffed local police force, no missing person report, coyotes... His car will be found, a long distance in the wrong direction, near a bus depot. It wouldn't be the first corpse mislaid in such fashion, and even if the cop is suspected, his colleagues won't try very hard to make a case against him.
Nor would they make an issue of his method of restraining the prisoner. If the guy is a wanted cross-border criminal and killer (possibly recognized on that second long look), the cop has nothing to lose and reputation to gain. As an east coaster, and Black, collaring "one of them" wouldn't hurt his career.
Quoting Tobias
Why not? It's a story. Don't you make up stories about random people you see at the mall, or little scenes you witness on the street?
In the absence of all the pat answers, readers are free to pick up clues in the narrative and infer the parts that are not explicitly stated. I've decided the passenger is a trafficker who brings Mexican girls across the border to use as prostitutes, and if they try to escape or protest, he metes out harsh punishment. The the blisters on her face? She had been silenced with duct tape (it's significant, yeah?) maybe not for the first time, and beaten. In a moment when his attention was diverted, she took a desperate chance to turn on her attacker and, perhaps with the help of fellow victims, overpower or knock him out. She got his wallet, keys and duct tape. The other girls helped stuff the prisoner into his own car (she obviously couldn't have lifted him in by herself). Then she drove off to deliver him to some form of frontier justice and the others scattered. Illegal in every sense, they were not about to turn to the police, but they're not killers, either.
That's my version; I'm not contesting your.
Yes. I agree she would have needed help to wrap this guy up.
Your story makes complete sense.
Her blistered face. I hadn't thought any more about the significance of Duct Tape.
And I definitely hadn't considered that the car was his.
Your version is by far the most likely. Well imagined!
Exactly this.
There's that about economical prose: you have to read every word and punctuation mark.
Yes. So she does.
Quoting Noble Dust
When I read that, I thought she simply did not want to be identified. Funny how the mind rolls.
Quoting Vera Mont
I can't believe I didn't see all those pieces of the puzzle you picked up.
Well, yes I can. My attention was elsewhere and even with gaps, there is so much there!
A rich and rewarding story along with a most illuminating discussion.
What's not to like...I mean "Enjoy!"
Quoting Noble Dust
'Apparently, you're in a hurry this morning'. Casual almost couldn't care less attitude.
You can imagine a crooked smile with raised eyebrow.
Listening to the response. To ticket or not.
As if needing cigarettes would be an acceptable reason for breaking the speed limit.
As if going faster would help economic fuel consumption.
The driver's casual nod to the car and its owner, all taped up. As if that explains everything.
He might own the car but he doesn't own her, no more.
No obvious response from the deputy.
She's not going to be done for speeding, auto theft or kidnapping!
The deputy chats as if everything is normal.
This, after being looked and growled at by a killer in duct tape.
Then the blare of a horn. A witness. The timing of it...what luck!
Surreal. Cinematic. Do we hear the music?
That's why she was hoping he's a smoker.
Quoting Amity
To what ? A trucker whizzing past saw a car pulled over by a cop. Not front-page news, even if he'd ever connect it to an unidentified body found in the desert, even if he noticed the paragraph on page 4 two weeks later, assuming he was even in the same state again when it appeared.
All true.
But it is what is in her mind. She is scared.
Yes he might be and it may well have been like that. That is what vigilantism is, a judgment passed because we are convinced we know the truth. However you and the cop jump to conclusions where that needed not be the case. The policemen could have radioed for assistance and take his time sorting this all out. That is why I find it hard to make the leap, the actions of the cop are unreasonable, never mind illegal. He could have known the truth, but chose to believe his gut feeling and if they would be proven wrong he would be in big trouble. He illegally got himself into more trouble than the legal course of action would get him in. Why would anyone do that? That ended by suspension of disbelief.
Perhaps it is my legal education talking. I think in alternative scenarios instead of the most likely one. Here there are alternative scenarios a plenty.
Edit: maybe it is not the unbelievability of the actions of the cop that put me off, though it is part of it... it is I think the sympathy for his actions that for me shine through the story and which I find hard to believe. It is the same kind of gut feeling that gets people killed, often innocent people. The writer may have intentionally put it there, but then I would have expected more ambivalence, or in any case a device that would make the reader reflect on her own hasty judgments. That device for me is missing, it does not question those easy judgments.
Quoting Tobias
Often by cops, operating within the law.
Sure. And maybe in real life people wouldn't behave this way.
That's why it's fiction.
Yes, I find the writing was well done in sections before the dialogues, then I got lost. It was presented effortlessly at the beginning.
Could be a scene out of Ozark or Breaking Bad, in which case the woman is not the innocent one and the cop is also corrupt. They're all playing with fire and therefore risk dying by it.
Wish there was more to it as I want to know the truth but the way in which we're forced to project is interesting.
Huh? You think the law is very keen on killing innocent people? It is however beside the point. I said it is the same gut feeling that gets people killed. Whether the law allows it or not is irrelevant. My point is we should not trust it.
Quoting Vera Mont
Yes but fiction requires the suspension of disbelief. Now if we are introduced in a world where we learn people act very differently from normal situations, we of course accept them to act differently in that world. The world that is presented here is in fact hyper realistic. The descriptions in this story are very good and detailed because they actually make clear we are in the here and now. Other descriptions like in 'the tourist' for instance introduce us to a different kind of world.
I want to stress that I liked the story and especially the description of the situation of the woman and her ordeal. It is very well written. What held me back is especially where you say "That is why it is fiction". If that thought crosses my mind some boundary has been crossed. I recognize the story as 'a story', instead of some situation that gets me engrossed, wanting to know how it ends. But hey, we all have different boundaries.
When you say "normal situations" are you referring to locales in (e.g.) Western-Northern Europe? Do you imagine the US-Mexico border is comparable to those locales? I wonder how difficult it is for you, Tobias, to suspend your disbelief when reading (much more harrowing and graphic) 'war stories' or 'frontier stories', for example, which take place somewhere outside the border of 'respectable' civil society. "Duct Tape" may be too short, leaving out some clarifying details, and only absurd enough to resemble an episode from the old, early '60s era The Twilight Zone rather than a wrenching, more visceral gut-punch of a "true crime" story. It's unfair, however, to judge this story on any other terms than on its own, no?
:up:
Maybe too much ... :smirk:
Quoting Amity
:fire: Yes, this is what grounds 'the telling' for me.
Well, I do think I can, although I do not live near the US-Mexican border. I do not think that is a necessary impediment. I had a teacher in Dutch class who kept spoon feeding us novels written by concentration camp survivors about the time they were inmates. Believe me they were harrowing tales of utter lawlessness, random violence, abhorrent sadistic treatment taking place at the fringes of civil society. We all have our trauma's as a people and this episode is ours. I can imagine myself a lawless society, but especially in such a society I have trouble understanding the actions of the policeman. I would if he would extort some sexual favour perhaps, or bribe but just getting himself into trouble for no reason, making himself the owner of a problem that is not his to begin with... I find it odd behavior under such circumstances.
The cop had a number of choices. He could A. play it by the book, call assistance round them up for questioning etc. It would cost him paper work, but he might also have made a stellar arrest finding some notorious criminal or even two. It would have been a logical course of action.
B. He could have let it go, not my problem, see you later alligator, I have seen nothing and heard nothing. Difficult because there may be questions later on, but if you don't feel like it, you do not feel like it.
C. He could offer to 'take care of this problem', but nothing is free in this world young lady... we all know you have been places.... you want to show me around a little bit? Beginning of a bad porn movie, but hey, possible in the lawless place the story describes. Daring of the guy, but a fitting description of the seedy world that is on offer in the story.
D. He could, for no reason or compensation, offer to take care of the problem and possibly make himself an accomplice to a crime, based on his gut feeling that the woman is ok and the guy is a killer. That just seems like an unwise course of action. If his gut feeling is ok then why not choose option A and it will be sorted out. B. is also possible. But D? For me it seems the least logical and therefore not a very fitting course of action especially within on the stories own terms.
I had the same problem with the story 'sports car'. Two cyclists are almost driven to death by a criminally reckless driver, one even slamming into the rock... and then after some mumbling they decide to help the guy out, no questions asked. I would need something more some sort of hint or clue that would make a counter intuitive action believable.
Yes, I've enjoyed our quick-fire and yet thoughtful exchanges. Stuff keeps emerging!
Another thing about the significance of the duct tape.
I seem to recall a picture of a woman with her mouth taped shut.
Symbolising the lack of power. No voice.
Perhaps I'm overthinking this now but...
This story 'Duct Tape' can be read as depicting the woman as a symbol.
For all those deprived of voice, freedom, dignity, and life.
The deputy is a symbol of law. But he is also a human working to promote justice.
If it can't be done or found in the court system; the laws changed from progress to regress then...
What is to be done?
Must it come to lawlessness? People becoming criminals or criminalised to beat the criminals?
The story gives us room to think and consider decisions, actions and consequences.
It goes deeper than a superficial first impression. A not-to-my-taste reflexivity. Try reflecting.
Every time I read I see something different.
This doesn't happen very often...again, thanks to the author and others.
Have you been able to give this a re-read or a re-think?
If you have followed the discussion, then it's clear that it's more than a list of ingredients for a hard-boiler.
I think once the polls close. See OP.
It is not my cup of tea, sorry... I mean, I don't have anything against the story, but this kind of plot is not suitable for what I used to read.
Tomorrow when the polls were closed.
- polls are open until tomorrow at 6.00pm UTC.
YES. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
Quoting Tobias
I trust me more than I trust you. I expect that to be reciprocal.
Quoting Tobias
Yes, it's a very good story. Still fiction.
Quoting Tobias
Evidently.
I'm sorry too.
Yes, exactly this.
You can imagine yourself in a lawless society... but not where the police themselves are the most lawless element. Yet such societies exist, always. I've lived in one.
The woman in the story had been prostituted by the mob.
I get this from the street-smart flow of thought at the beginning, and how, even though she is afraid, she shows a nonchalant attitude. She's had many encounters with police: you brazen it out and look for some common ground to engage their sympathy.
She's been suffering for at least 8 years under the heavy hand of this particular boss; this is explicit in that short dialogue.
You can accept the idea of a bent or opportunist cop; I have no problem with a kind, fair one. He's intimately familiar with racial inequality; he's living in Yuma, a city with a large Hispanic population, very possibly including his wife. Why would he compound the victimization of someone who reminds him of his wife, or neighbours, or friends?
Isn't taking risks for other people's problems the very definition of police? And he wouldn't be in any trouble for bringing in a prisoner, especially a mobster. Quite the reverse; it would boost his career.
Quoting Vera Mont
Yes the death penalty carries the inherent risk of executing the wrong person. Every punishment in fact carries that risk. That punishment carries the inherent risk of punishing the wrong person is a valid argument against the whole practice of criminal law, but by itself does not justify the claim that the law is there to punish innocent people.
Quoting Vera Mont
Because many police officers tend to trust their gut feeling. Not because they follow legal principles like the presumption of innocence.
That is my whole point. One should not trust one's gut feeling.
Quoting Vera Mont
All conjecture. She certainly looks disheveled and beaten and something is amiss, she drives around with a man tied up in her back seat. She is in a tangle surely, but why jump to conclusions?
Quoting Vera Mont
Hmmm, so people who are street smart but still show a nonchalant attitude despite being afraid are prostituted by the mob... a rather special conclusion. Sure she might be, we get all kinds of clues for something like that, but most are from her when she talks to a police man while being in a bit of a pickle.
Quoting Vera Mont
I have to assume you drove around with passengers wrapped duct tape on a regular basis.
Quoting Vera Mont
That is what she says, or better implies. When she is being pulled over by a policeman... with a tied passenger in her back seat... But sure, police man believes and so do you. Even though you said yourself you look for sympathy and common ground. The protagonist has every reason to lie. Cop knows that too. Though she might also well be truthful. Take her in for questioning I'd say because it is a situation that deserves being explored further.
Quoting Vera Mont
Fair? kind? To who? The woman. Sure. But there is a guy wrapped up in duct tape. Evidently crimes have been committed and evidence needs to be obtained. Take her statement. Now you probably cannot find her again and you have lost a valuable piece of evidence against the guy. Fair would be to find out what has happened and then pass judgment.
Quoting Vera Mont
Because the only clear and visible victim is a man obviously robbed from his liberty and in grave peril. Luckily you have a crystal ball though and know exactly what happened...
Quoting Vera Mont
Yes but hasty generalization and covering up the truth instead revealing it is not.
I think we better focus on the story and on how it is built up. The description of the woman for me was great and it also shows because people are rallying to her defense very quickly, so it rouses the emotions which is always a good thing in a story.
Maybe, for me at least, the cop as a character could be more elaborated on. If I would know his shift, what he has seen, where he has been his actions could be read more in context. If there are hints for instance that his wife went through a similar ordeal I'd have an easier time making sense of his actions. There is still room I think to elaborate on the cop and make him an independent character, given as much life as the woman.
No, we can't. I have not challenged your interpretation of the story. If you dislike mine, that's unfortunate, but I'll live - unless you indict me of conspiracy to murder in Arizona and can make the case to jury.
Quoting Tobias
I believe it is so finely balanced and economically written that every single word and punctuation is significant. Enough is left to the reader's imagination that we can disagree as to its meaning.
I'm hoping the author will come forward and reveal what was meant.
I am not challenging your interpretation of the story. I think your interpretation is spot on and I think you have very accurately articulated the intention of the author.
Quoting Vera Mont
I think we differ in our style of reading. For me 'meaning' or the intention of the author play no part in how I appreciate a story. I guess it is different for you, which is of course fine. I never look for meaning and try to read a story on its own terms as much as I am capable of. My main question is, can I follow the characters within it and do the events construe a coherent hole? It might be dreamlike or realistic, but in the end for me what is important is if I can imagine the world that is conjured up in the story. If I can and if the story then shows me a certain aspect of the world here and now in a different light, then I like the story, whatever the author intended. In my own stories I also try to do that and I am not attached to what I meant with the story. Usually I mean nothing. It is for the reader to make it meaningful.
My favourite short story ever written here is Felice, written by I am sure the same author as this one. :) For me it worked wonderfully well because it brought to life a situation that is entirely believable and showed me something about sexual encounters that I have not been aware of yet, a certain dejectedness mixed with romance, mixed with sadness and the necessity of human contact. What the author meant I never dwelled on. Of course I might fail in my way of readership. I am of course no literary critic :)
Thanks to everyone for reading my story. I very much appreciate the great responses it's received. Very encouraging! :cool:
:fire: Thank you!
:up:
Quoting Amity
Maybe ...
:fire: :fire:
:cool:
Quoting Tobias
... of "Duct Tape" was to spin a web of words out of two images: (i) a man gagged and hog-tied & (ii) a woman's hoarse voice swearing (to herself) in Español, and then to submit this 'text' four and a half hours later by the 8Aug, 5pm PST deadline. "The intention" was defiance of merciless writer's block, minimum 500 words. With a half-hour to spare, some edits, 2-3 read-throughs out loud, I slapped on a title, then pushed "send" (so to speak) about ten minutes to the hour.
In the twenty or so minutes before I'd pm'd "Duct Tape", I'd reread it as best as I could in two ways simultaneously: as a craftsman and as a reader what works / doesn't work and what story can I tell myself (or somebody else) about these characters, respectively. I'd told myself a 'border story' near enough to my own experiences and absurd sensibility that seemed plausible enough to match other such 'real life' stories I'd heard during my years in both SoCal in the mid-80s and Arizona 00s-10s. Only narrative details which served the feel of the story I'd told myself had survived editing. I agree with you, Tobias (or suspect I do), stories are more about what reading the reader's experience and sensibility can coherently make of them than they are (mere) 'expressions of authorial intent'.
So I'd submitted the 'text' because it's composition had afforded me telling myself a story I call "Duct Tape" because, apparently, there are dangerous loose ends / breakages in bondage which need to be moved around quickly and quietly in the dead of night. Vera Mont's reading is even better, more explicit, than mine I love it! And anyway, as she points out, it's fiction, not reportage. The setting is a dark stretch of desert highway on the border liminal, surreal, absurd, even horrific. Of course, so much more can be written and fleshed-out this is only the first draft, but now I think I like how brief, how concentrated, and sudden the WTF moments are without explanation or any explicit acts.
Anyway, counselor, I'll be more succinct and direct if you wish to further cross-examine the suspects my clients e.g. beaten woman, Deputy & hog-tied passenger or any witnesses e.g. Vera Mont, Amity et al. :smirk:
Hey, I've made my deposition; not sure I can keep defending my version after this ^^ revelation.
Suffice to say it's an amazingly good - intriguing, engaging, challenging - story for having been written in haste. It was quite possibly the cinematic quality that led me to the conclusion I drew. Add about eight words in the right places and it's perfect.
No, thats projection. My experience with police is that theyre self-interested lying bullies who always play it safe and its a bridge far far too far to think that a simple highway patrolman would spontaneously be heroic. Its grossly naive.
Nah, just optimistic.
Yeah, which is why I don't read his actions as "heroic".
He was clearly taking a big risk and that has the character of fearlessness and daring. I suppose whether or not it was virtuous is undetermined. He may have been opportunistically taking advantage of the situation to acquire a prepackaged Hannibal Lecterian entrée. He could pickup some fava beans and a nice chianti on the way home to accompany it.
You don't think there is an aspect of projection in imagining the motives of these characters. We have to fill in the gaps to satisfy ourselves. Though a close reading might uncover the author's intent.
I'd prefer the cop is actually terrified of the man in the backseat and is struck with a dilemma between his duty to the law and saving his skin. He chooses the easiest course of action with the least possibility of dangerous blow back. Better to not get involved.
Like a lot of things in life I guess it's a matter of degrees, though the degree of difference in this case is substantial. A Rorschach inkblot has no meaning so a perceiver is forced to project meaning onto it. A cop and a battered woman both have meaning and we're forced to accept and work with that meaning.
I just reread the story and both characters are rather barebones, or to put it another way, they lack messy details, like the messy meaningless details of an inkblot, so there's little material for our imaginative projection. Is there such a thing as a blank or non-inkblot test?
We don't know what the woman is wearing, how she moves or what her posture is like, what she smells like, etc. From the brief glimpses we get into her emotional life she seems tough. That doesn't make a lot of sense for a victim, particularly if she's supposed to have been a victim for eight years ("They brought me here like eight years ago from New York City"). She's cool as a cucumber with the cop and considering the circumstances that seems almost sociopathic, or perhaps she's just utterly resigned to tragedy by that point in time. I have no experience with this sort of thing but I think the latter would be a rare oddity. Would a highway patrolman have that sort of experience?
The essence of the internal model of a highway patrolman that I've constructed throughout life is basically that of a dumb rule-follower who always plays it safe. Not someone who could accurately assess an unusual situation in an instant with Super-Sherlock-Holmes intuition and instantly take action that could put themselves in jeopardy.
Quoting Nils Loc
Basic damsel in distress narrative if you asked me but 180 seems to be saying no to that.
---
By the way, four hours is a very short time to write a story like this so it's totally understandable that it may lack "messy details". I couldn't write a better story if I had four months.
I'm fairly jaded, but I still keep thinking of police officers as people - capable of good, evil, cruelty, kindness, deception, self-deception, venality, pettiness and heroism.
In this instance, a cop would run no risk in bringing in a prisoner; that's part of his job. If the guy turns out to be a notorious mobster, the cop stands to gain a great deal of prestige, in an environment where he has not really fit in. If the courts eventually set the perp free, so what? If, on the other hand, he brings in a little woman on the charge that she had kidnapped a great big man (he doesn't know how, when or where; the only evidence against her is the trussed-up guy in her back seat.), it gains the policeman nothing, except a long and fruitless interrogation by superiors. And if the guy does turn out to be wanted, he's be a laughingstock (You had a 110lb hooker immobilize him for you!) Either way, she would certainly be abused by the police - even by the most legal procedure of questioning in custody for 24 hour interrogation, while they check her priors, etc. and probably incarceration for crimes she committed under duress.
The story offers no real insight into the cops vices or virtues so I'm left with only my basic conception.
Quoting Vera Mont
Being kidnapped is not a crime and according to the story there's no evidence of any other crime so there would be no reason to arrest the guy. The only thing, or rather person, that could implicate him of a crime drives away, off on a mission to buy cigarettes and gas. So much for the deputy doing his job.
As far as risks, you may be neglecting to consider that guy wearing the duck tape will pursue his own interests after the tape is removed and his interests are at extreme odds with both the woman and the cop. I can imagine various things he could do that would cause trouble for them both. If there's no proof of kidnapping there is proof of a stolen car and that, plus his injuries, would lend credence to an assault charge.
The story leads me to think that the fate of tape guy is either abandonment or death.
Okay. That's a valid option. Quoting praxis
Against whom? The woman is gone. He can accuse the cop of either abducting or assaulting him, but I doubt that would go over big with the cop's colleagues. "Oh, so the officer just pulled you over on the highway, beat you, and taped you up, for no reason? So, where's your car?" "A woman stole it." "What woman?" "The one that beat me up. Her name is ---- " "And where is this mighty woman now?" "She took off in my car." "So, she overpowered you while you were driving the car and then the officer abducted you?" Etc.
His only evidence is back at his place of illicit business, and so are the witnesses, who also happen to be accessories or co-conspirators to his kidnapping. His case doesn't look all that solid.
Good point. However the point that I was trying to make is that it doesn't make sense to arrest tape guy. Without the woman the deputy would need to contrive some charge and that would most likely be more problematic than it would be worth. Once the woman fell into his hands it seems that the goal was to rescue her from an unfair consequence. He could accomplish that by taking the law into his own hands and simply letting both of them go. An elegant, if corrupt in the eyes of the law, solution.
If he were a hardcore vigilante he could murder tape guy and let the vultures dispose of the body.
If he were a modest vigilante he could drop tape guy off at the nearest bus stop.
Once the duck tape was stripped from his mouth his first words could be something like:
I don't think the story is about "the fate of tape guy" or that "the cop's vices or virtues" factor into what happens or doesn't happen, and I don't suppose a second, longer draft would add such telling details. I agree mostly with @Vera Mont's reading, especially between the lines and in the gaps. She imagines her way into the narrative and thereby tells herself / us, IMO, a more compelling story than the one presented. All i know is, as @Amity points out about the driver / captor, she is scared. If anything, praxis, this is a(n underwritten) story about 'running scared'.
Quoting Vera Mont
Okay then. Let's split the difference, Vera you point out those "right places" and I'll find "about eight words". :wink:
Thats funny because I dont get that at all. As I mentioned, the internal emotional glimpse we get is basically toughness and externally shes cool as a cucumber.
Okay. But consider what one can get...
[quote=Vera Mont]The woman in the story had been prostituted by the mob.
I get this from the street-smart flow of thought at the beginning, and how, even though she is afraid, she shows a nonchalant attitude.
She's had many encounters with police: you brazen it out and look for some common ground to engage their sympathy. She's been suffering for at least 8 years under the heavy hand of this particular boss; this is explicit in that short dialogue.[/quote]
:flower:
Quoting Tobias
I like to implicate the reader in moral ambiguities or dilemmas (e.g. "Brother Jake's").
Always funny and interesting to consider our different perspectives and what we glean from the read. There is more than an 'internal emotional glimpse'. Externally, from start to finish, the woman's actions and awareness are plain, communicating a variety of emotions. The author kickstarts the engagement and imagination, if not empathy.
It's 03.48 hrs.
She is driving, not noticing - perhaps numb, the usual mindless driving on a long journey or other distractions. Like the man's struggle against the duct tape, listening to his muffled pleads and rage. Continually checking him in the rearview mirror:
She is still fighting against the man whose killer eyes hold hers.
She is desperate for a cigarette. Why? If she's done without for 8yrs, the physical dependence will have gone. But there is a psychological need - to calm her nerves.
She berates herself for not stopping at a gas station - hard on herself but, of course, she was scared.
There were 2 highway patrol cars there.
She hasn't stopped running.
Until now, for an urgent pee and to check her cell phone. It's dead. No way to communicate with friends or family. After 8yrs, will any family still be around? Uncertainty and anxiety.
With a real need to know and feel love, strength and support. To not be alone. To reunite.
The deputy arrives...and looks at the back seat passenger.
Her stress levels increase:
Her need to pee again so soon - that's about anxiety.
Her thoughts about running - that's about fear.
What's not to 'get' about this woman being scared?
***
Time was spent, quite rightly, on the justice aspect; the various options for the cop.
Quoting 180 Proof
His decision is taken quickly, almost intuitively, immediate action required:
He has taken on the burden of the woman and telling her not to worry. Is that OK? Yes, she is reassured. And yet:
She is nervous. Like a learner driver. Still sees the tape guy as her problem. She doesn't know what the cop is going to do. The readers join in her uncertainty. And that is what makes this story fabulous!
I agree with this:
Quoting 180 Proof
The central character is a woman, 'running scared'.
I wonder if any such story has ever won? Haven't most been about men, or from their P.O.V.?
Where or how can we check? Do we have a 'Rogue's Winning Gallery' anywhere?
@Baden @Jamal ?
Again, @180 Proof - a winning, captivating trailblazer!
Odd - not many dashboards display military time.
[s]for hours[/s] since Parker, or the 86 turnoff, or some location to indicate whether she's on I95 from Los Vegas or across I10 from LA. Can't see where else she could be coming from. She must have had some reason to take a dangerous captive way across Arizona, and she has to have looked at a map or entered a GPS destination before setting off. Alternatively, and with fewer words, insert at X the number of the highway she's on.
I don't see how that's possible. She'd have to be heading west. From where? Albuquerque? Can't think why.
She's familiar with Arizona highway patrol schedule. Therefore, not from LA, and not working a casino or the street. Curious... but not essential to the matter at hand.
We could use a little byplay here, to reinforce the impression of familiarity with highway patrol. A flirtatious gesture, or pleading innocent look - something insincere to elicit male sympathy - which she immediately gives up, realizing how her situation is different this time: nothing for it but to come clean... ish .
[s]car.[/s] The cop doesn't ask how come she has the keys, or anything. I'd expect at least an interrogative eyebrow, or mulling-it-over pause.
"From Yuma" is not definitive. He might add, "I'm stationed there." which would put us close to the border, which would make sense, but where is there east to come from that's many hours away? What the hell kind of syndicate operates out of Albuquerque?
Well, that puts paid to I8! This must be a secondary road, which would also explain the gravel, rather than paved, shoulder. There are not many going east-west.
He knows who "they" are. Therefore, notorious criminals, big enough to reach from Arizona to New York. Some indication here would help. A name? In Spanish, maybe, not too obvious.
Nice try but your argument is weak and unconvincing.
Quoting Amity
Continually checking would show anxiety, but "continually" is your addition and not in the story.
Quoting Amity
Defiantly meeting someones gaze is bold and a sign of confidence, not anxiety.
Quoting Amity
Nicotine is calming, though in the story she [i]"jonesed hard for nicotine"[/I] showing withdrawal and which would occur regardless of the situation.
Quoting Amity
There were 2 highway patrol cars there, she was prudent.
Quoting Amity
Anxious thoughts but not the characters anxious thoughts. Another one of your additions.
Quoting Amity
Another addition.
Quoting Amity
It had been two and half hours since her last pee stop and we don't know if she'd been drinking water or whatever. In any case, she thought about running because she had to pee. Running merely because she had to pee? Not because of the trouble she might avoid by running?
I suspect the author intentionally made this line ambiguous. I suspect the whole story is a set-up and we've fallen for it, analyzing the ambiguities piece by piece, fueled by an ambiguous moral dilemma.
Regardless of 180's trickster status, in the reality presented, I can only conclude that the woman is so traumatized that she's miles past caring and is just going through the motions until she inevitable collides with the next tragedy. That, or she's a sociopath and the villain rather than the victim.
No. It's the underling who defies the one charge, not the other way around.
Quoting Amity
They have cigarettes west of the Mississippi. I have no reason to think she's been kept in a basement: she has the attitude of a working girl; she can drive; she knows the road and where she's going. She's been working for "them" in a capacity that supplied her with a cellphone, cigarettes and familiarity with law-enforcement. I'm thinking a courier of some kind.
Quoting praxis
It was a momentary impulse, not a reasoned response.
How can I convince anyone if they can't even follow a pee sequence?
I've had fun with this. I think you are too. Look forward to your next story...
Yes, hats off and gratitude to 180! I regret not voting for it now.
Thinking about this more, and not by choice which is kind of annoying, what I find interesting is that we may not be forced to project, at least after our initial "fast thinking" assessment that we have no control (besides training ourselves in a particular way) over. Is slow thinking projection a choice? What do our choices say about us? What does not choosing to project say about us if that's a choice?
This is a story in itself I think, the description is aptly vivid. :eyes: Great work my friend. :fire:
It is great storytelling and I loved the description of the woman cursing in Spanish. I met one such woman long ago, she cursed in typical Mexican so she had to explain the words. I will not repeat them here. Especially in hurried writing it is wonderfully succinct.
Quoting 180 Proof
Ohhh no, no more interrogation from me. The story is well written and works well. For me there is just one thing. It is this:
Quoting 180 Proof
I really liked Brother Jake, even though I did not comment I think... It is a fascinating short story and yeah the moral dilemma is felt there. Thing here is that people judged so easily, including the deputy. Anyway, I am glad you overcame your writers block because I will be eagerly awaiting your next story. :sparkle:
Maybe using projection is ill advised, since I couldn't tell you meaningfully the difference between a reader who is and isn't projecting. We're left to imagine the details of the story left out and this differs based upon the sensibilities/capacities of us readers, the details we'd care to ignore or gloss over and those we'd emphasize as keys. Yes, one could be severely analytical, logical but there is a point where this might break the magic (and plausibility) of the story, killing by dissection so to speak. If we weren't enticed to give various explanations for the choices the characters are making the story wouldn't be interesting at all.
The mystery is an unscratchable itch to uncover what can't be uncovered. Personally, I feel that anyone's explanation/expectation should be upended. But there is nothing more. What we read is what we got and it wasn't very much. It was a trick to leave us wanting something we can't have, except by our imaginations.
A reader literally adding details to the story, like Amity saying that the woman was "continually" checking the rearview when that's not in the story, is a meaningful difference to me. I underscore "to me" so no one else need bother.
More general is the view that the woman is 'running scared', despite a lack of evidence to support that view. I would expect someone in the woman's position to be scared, but she shows no sign of being scared in her behavior or inner life.
Her first thoughts after seeing a highway patrol car in her rearview are about patrol scheduling and performance, the shitty circumstance of having a duck-taped guy in the back seat, and the hope that she could bum a cigarette from the officer. Her thoughts are cool and calculating.
And yet the writer favors the running scared view.
Quoting 180 Proof
A truer reading might summarize like:
[i]Running careless
Running hopeless[/i]
or even just Running out of gas
Any suggestions how I can convey the fear behind her "cool and calculating thoughts" more clearly?
her heart raced
But thats not the point. Im just curious if you were deliberately making her emotional state ambiguous.
I didnt mind the spoonfuls that tasted like toughness, in fact they were quite tasty.
Anyway, my cross-examination is complete and I emphatically thank the court for indulging my curiosity!
Her thoughts are all over the place. She didn't notice the rain stop, neglected to keep track of fuel consumption or time; swears at a coyote one minute, looks at her prisoner the next, thinks about gas, thinks about... whatever. There is no cool calculations there. She's facing the cop with equanimity, because she has no escape.
Quoting praxis
Now who is adding details? "She hoped he was a smoker". She doesn't even ask. She just offers that lame excuse for speeding. I read that as: if he's a smoker, he might sympathize with the need.
We didn't add details; we interpreted what was there differently.
I wonder if @Noble Dust will edit the OP by adding another, more polished, draft of "Duct Tape" (when I get around to it) directly beneath the current one ... or will I have to post the new draft here among the comments?
:up: Thanks again, my friend! Chronic writer's block notwithstanding, I'll begin that next story (or stories) soon to give myself the time to rewrite something that'll be worthy of your anticipation.
We agree that she faced the cop with mental calmness, the primary definition of equanimity. Mental calmness does not suggest fear.
Quoting Vera Mont
Yeah, I didnt get that, maybe because Ive never been a smoker. It is no less calculating, however.
With the appearance of mental calmness. Fear is concealed in different ways: some people put up a show of defiance; some, of injured pride; some bluster and threaten; some show equanimity.
Quoting praxis
Well, sure! If you were cornered, wouldn't you be looking for any way out, calculating the odds? Quoting 180 Proof
I hope the OP is not changed, because that would render much of this discussion moot.
What I've found most interesting about the discussion is how much depends, not on the literary merits of the piece: we don't disagree on that. The story is very good, precisely because it does raise that other controversy. It's not a moral one, really, since the moral issues in the story are too vague to take sides on, or even define. Rather it's a legal dispute. We interpret what is not explicitly stated according to our various experiences with law, law enforcement and the justice system. And to some extent, that also obtains across gender lines - how we think women in compromised positions fare at the hands of the system.
I think if you're going to keep posting drafts, it would make more sense to post them as they happen. Or even post them on a third party site. Especially if it's on a "when I get around to it" schedule. :cool:
:up:
That picture is quite spot on Praxis. I do not know how you guys do it, but rendering the images with the stories s really cool! :ok:
Quoting 180 Proof
Ohh it will be. I am jealous of your ability to come up with new stories that rival the past ones. I myself have the feeling I wrote better 15 years ago which is an annoying feeling. Anyway, looking forward to reading. :fire:
Fortunately, Vera has the patience to continue:
Quoting Vera Mont
Exactly this. It's not about adding to, or suggestions for, editing the text.
It is how we imagine things to be. The 'continually checking' was only part of my thought process, reflecting on possibilities.
Quoting Amity
Thanks, Vera, for your perseverance; clear vision and articulation. With this and more.
My patience is limitless. :nerd:
Quoting Vera Mont
Were treated to views beneath her appearance, her actual thoughts, and as Ive argued they dont show fear. They show coolness and calculation.
Yeah, the AI nailed it with the simple prompt: bored woman standing by a car at night on highway
Yeah, only for me she was a dark haired Latina... But well... maybe that says more about me than the A.I. que chinga.
I agree with @Vera Mont. There are obviously different interpretations of a story.
Some are closer than others:
Quoting 180 Proof
Any gaps (deliberate or otherwise) are filled by the reader's imagination. I think it is unusual for people not to look for meaning in a story.
If you are not attached to your meaning, then why is it that you offer an explanation and feel good when a reader 'gets' you?
Where does your story come from, if not a meaningful part of your mind, spirit, or soul? (Psyche).
Of course, it is the reader who tries to understand or make sense of what is written - find any meaning. To write, read, and reflect is to share a world and human experience.
The story has been written by an imaginative author who has felt or seen something to be shared. The intention is to expand and re-create the vision.
Quoting 180 Proof
I disagree. Without the author's intent to write and complete a story in the most creative and imaginative way possible, the reader has nothing, nothing to go on. It's a dance of two minds.
I say more about this, here:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/834176
I feel good when a reader likes it and when he or she offers a thoughtful and caring interpretation. As an author I feel 'cared for'. I feel bad when it is tossed aside as uninteresting without it being given a second glance. I enjoy it when a thoughtful caring interpretation differs because it makes me see my own story again with different eyes.
Quoting Amity
The story may come from many things. Some of mine are from dreams, some are a rendering of real life experiences, some from the research I have done. Sure, you lay bare something personal, but as soon as you do, others are free to reflect in or on it. That is what makes my stories meaningful to me, if it induces some sort of self reflection in the reader, which they project back to me. If they do not see the reflection, I feel I have failed to convey something meaningful, whatever the story may mean to me as an author personally.
Quoting Amity
Yes, find any meaning. Yes, the story has been written by an imaginative author and should be applauded for writing such a story. Indeed, expand and recreate.
Quoting Amity
Indeed and the story is the dance. The minds turn and twist in an eternal recreation.
As I said in the thread on your poem:
Quoting Tobias
At least that is my view on it... I mean no harm.
I appreciate this explanation and clarification of your view.
With regards to any story and the twisting and turning of it, I've responded here:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/834207
Quoting Tobias
Dear Tobias, I know you mean no harm. Your intentions are good.
Midjourney
Haha. I don't do drugs... much.
Btw, the 21st century US Southwest is still 'the frontier' (i.e. mostly uncivilized) ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68137002
... maybe too much Hollyweird vividly haunting my synapses like e.g.
[i]Sicario
Traffic
No Country For Old Men
The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada
Lone Star
U-Turn
The Border[/i]
You too my friend! That is a nice list of movies... Yes, yes, the officer must have considered himself 'The only law west of the Pecos', to quote Stephen King... :death: :flower: