Does the idea of incorrect questions make sense?

PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 14:21 5975 views 24 comments
This is an epistemological perspective of the math and computer
science concept of undecidability. The intention here is to show
that there is such a thing as an incorrect question.

[b]An incorrect question is defined as a question that lacks a correct
answer because there is something wrong with the question.[/b]

This simplest example of an incorrect question that I created back in 2004 is:
What time is it (yes or no)?

It is clear that the above question has no correct answer because the
required solution set of {yes, no} has no hours and minutes.

I came up with The logical law of polar questions in 2015
When posed to a man whom has never been married, the question:
Have you stopped beating your wife?
Is an incorrect polar question because neither yes nor no is a correct answer.
Technically the question includes a false presupposition.

A PhD computer science professor came up with this incorrect question in 2017:
Can Carol correctly answer “no” to this [yes/no] question?

[b]The whole point here is the question:
Does this notion of incorrect question make sense?[/b]

Comments (24)

bert1 October 26, 2023 at 14:32 #848516
Not really to me, no. Questions can contain false hidden assumptions, be leading, be rhetorical, be impossible to answer coherently etc. But only answers can be incorrect. Questions are not claims about anything.
PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 15:06 #848530
Quoting bert1
Not really to me, no. Questions can contain false hidden assumptions, be leading, be rhetorical, be impossible to answer coherently etc. But only answers can be incorrect. Questions are not claims about anything.


One of the people doing primary research into the mathematical formalization
of natural language called Montague Grammar proposed that questions are
statements with a piece missing.

The above incorrect question can be translated into its equivalent statement
The current time is "no". This statement is the same kind of nonsense as
this very famous statement.

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously
was composed by Noam Chomsky in his 1957 book Syntactic Structures as
an example of a sentence that is grammatically well-formed, but semantically
nonsensical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorless_green_ideas_sleep_furiously
Rocco Rosano October 26, 2023 at 15:10 #848533
RE: Does the idea of incorrect questions make sense?
?? et al,

Reply to PL Olcott Does this notion of incorrect question make sense?
(RESPONSE)

  • Yes, it is is possible to have an incorrect question. For instance: Any question that is ambiguous. What is the best best color for man?
  • Any question in which the object is beyond description is incorrect. For instance: Who is the Supreme Being? What is the First Cause?
  • Any scientific question that is untestable. For instance: Where is the center of the universe?


etc,
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Most Respectfully,
R
PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 15:33 #848546
Quoting Rocco Rosano
?PL Olcott Does this notion of incorrect question make sense?
(RESPONSE)

Yes, it is is possible to have an incorrect question.

I accepted your answer. You cited many more good examples.

Quoting PL Olcott
An incorrect question is defined as a question that lacks a correct
answer because there is something wrong with the question.


LuckyR October 26, 2023 at 15:39 #848549
Reply to PL Olcott
Uummm... I see a greater problem with the artificial constraint of the set of possible answers than I do with the questions, per sè.
wonderer1 October 26, 2023 at 15:47 #848553
Quoting Rocco Rosano
Any question in which the object is beyond description is incorrect.


Is it incorrect to ask what the value of ? is?
PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 16:32 #848568
Quoting LuckyR
?PL Olcott
Uummm... I see a greater problem with the artificial constraint of the set of possible answers than I do with the questions, per sè.


Every yes/no question only has {yes, no} as a correct answer.

Every yes/no defined such that no {yes, no} answer exists is
probably an incorrect yes/no question.

yes/no questions defined to contradict both yes/no answers
are incorrect questions.
PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 16:33 #848569
Quoting wonderer1
Is it incorrect to ask what the value of ? is?


No, one merely provides the algorithm for obtaining this value.
flannel jesus October 26, 2023 at 16:38 #848571
Quoting PL Olcott
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously
was composed by Noam Chomsky in his 1957 book Syntactic Structures as
an example of a sentence that is grammatically well-formed, but semantically
nonsensical.


It would have a bit more bite to it if he replaced "colourless ideas" with an actual colourless idea.

Green angles sleep furiously
Rocco Rosano October 26, 2023 at 17:15 #848584
RE: Does the idea of incorrect questions make sense?
?? et al,

No... It can be answered as a ratio.

Reply to wonderer1 Is it incorrect to ask what the value of ? is?

(COMMENT)

This is a question related to the cousin • "infinity." ( ? )

No mathematics is perfect. Mathematics is NOT related to truth or some other reality. PI ( ? ) is a ratio [(22:7 or 22/7) or (a geometric ratio of the circumference to the diameter)]. There is no exact equivalent in the decimal form (base 10). A calculator gives you an answer in terms of a never ending line of successive approximations until it exhausts its memory.

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There are entire books written on the subject of "infinity." I tried to understand the Bertrand Russel's (1872-1970) writings (text) when I was studying "idealism." To be honest, I reached my "limit" before I reached the end of the text. ([I]Pun Intended[/i])

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Most Respectfully,
R
PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 17:20 #848586
Quoting flannel jesus
It would have a bit more bite to it if he replaced "colourless ideas" with an actual colourless idea.


His point was that a thing requiring mutually exclusive properties cannot exist.
Do colorless green ideas sleep furiously? No they do not.
PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 17:21 #848587
Quoting Rocco Rosano
RE: Does the idea of incorrect questions make sense?
?? et al,

No... It can be answered as a ratio.


So the question: What time is it (yes or no)? can be answered with a ratio?
Count Timothy von Icarus October 26, 2023 at 17:35 #848592
It seems to me like you can definitely ask bad questions. This gets at problems in the sciences re paradigms and theory ladeness.

Your questions about phenomena are informed by your theories. You examine your data, empirical findings, in light of the existing paradigm.

PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 17:40 #848595
Quoting Count Timothy von Icarus
It seems to me like you can definitely ask bad questions.


The term {bad} has too much subjective leeway of interpretation compared {incorrect} that hss no subjective leeway.

Quoting PL Olcott
An incorrect question is defined as a question that lacks a correct
answer because there is something wrong with the question.


"something wrong" also seems a little imprecise.
A self-contradictory question is a specific kind of {something wrong} here is an example of that:

Quoting PL Olcott
Can Carol correctly answer “no” to this [yes/no] question?


Quoting PL Olcott
What time is it (yes or no)?


Is an example of a type mismatch error.


Count Timothy von Icarus October 26, 2023 at 17:46 #848601
Reply to PL Olcott
Science necessarily entails elements of subjectivity. After all, it's about what we (subjects) think is going on in the world.

Correct/incorrect itself also seems to presuppose some sort of [I]purpose[/I]. What is correct/incorrect "of itself?"

To be sure, you have examples of questions that cannot be answered due to problems of self-reference, but that seems like a subset of bad questions. Same with the examples of "begging the question." It seems to me that questions are bad or incorrect as regards the purposes for asking them.
PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 17:52 #848604
Quoting Count Timothy von Icarus
?PL Olcott
Science necessarily entails elements of subjectivity. After all, it's about what we (subjects) think is going on in the world.


I brought these same ideas up in the logic forum and they stopped getting any replies.

I am referring to the subset of expressions of language that either have no subjectivity
or whatever subjectivity they have is not relevant to the objective determination of correct
versus incorrect.
Rocco Rosano October 26, 2023 at 21:03 #848674
RE: Does the idea of incorrect questions make sense?
?? et al,

Time is not a ratio (per sa). When you say time, you have to think in terms of space-time. The two are inseparable.

There is nothing wrong with the question concept. However it can be criticized as a fallacy known as a "False Dilemma." Then again, my answer might be considered hasty.

My thumbnail answer is probably somewhat difficult to understand.
SHORT ANSWER: YES (Qualified)

Reply to PL Olcott What time is it (yes or no)? can be answered with a ratio?

Time is actually a dimensional coordinate in a space where the 3-dimentional coordinate "x" axis = 0, "y" axis = 0 "z" axis = 0 (a coordinate) shifts in location. Time is on a continuum in which frequency is a difference in location as observed by an outside observer. Time is measured as the inverse of frequency. This is to say that the ??t between the one location (x,y,z) and the velocity (v) to the next location (x' , y' , z').

1/freq = time. and. 1/time = freq

This is done all the because nothing is motionless. When you say three o'clock, you are talking about a single coordinate in the past. If you say one Megahertz (1.0E-6 Seconds), you are talking about traveling in time at this moment.

(Note: [I]Even at the speed of light (c), no outside observer is stationary, The outside observer is always looking into the past, but the frequency shifts due to the doppler effect.[/i])

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Most Respectfully,
R
PL Olcott October 26, 2023 at 23:14 #848701
Quoting Rocco Rosano
There is nothing wrong with the question concept. However it can be criticized as a fallacy known as a "False Dilemma." Then again, my answer might be considered hasty.


When an incorrect question is defined as any question lacking a correct answer
because there is something wrong with the question, the the question

What time is it (yes or no)?
cannot be answered because of the type mismatch error.

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously
is a statement that is nonsense because of type mismatch errors.
LuckyR October 27, 2023 at 08:01 #848763
Reply to PL Olcott
Though one can argue there's no such thing as an inherently "yes/no" question, just askers not interested in the whole truth, instead seeking to artificially constrain answerers with arbitrary "rules" predefining "acceptable" answers.
PL Olcott October 27, 2023 at 14:16 #848863
Quoting LuckyR
Though one can argue there's no such thing as an inherently "yes/no" question,


https://teflpedia.com/Polar_question
If you are in a courtroom and asked a yes/no question and fail to answer
with a yes/no answer you could be cited for contempt of court and sent to jail.
LuckyR October 27, 2023 at 14:52 #848872
Reply to PL Olcott
Exactly my point. Lawyers are almost universally understood to be a prime example of someone uninterested in the truth, and instead seek to manipulate others to give answers that serve the lawyer's best interest.
PL Olcott October 27, 2023 at 15:10 #848876
Quoting LuckyR
?PL Olcott
Exactly my point. Lawyers are almost universally understood to be a prime example of someone uninterested in the truth, and instead seek to manipulate others to give answers that serve the lawyer's best interest.


In the court of law dishonest dodges and deceit land you in jail.
Judge to Bill: Did you murder Mary or not?
Bill: What even does the word "murder" mean?
Bill: Many people are said to "murder" the English language.
Judge: Answer the question or be charged with contempt of court.
LuckyR October 27, 2023 at 16:52 #848895
Reply to PL Olcott
Nah, much more likely to be:

L. Did you strike my client with your fist? Yes or no.
D. Well, he came at me with a tire iron...
L. I asked you YES or NO did you strike my client with your fist?
J. Please answer yes or no.
PL Olcott October 27, 2023 at 18:12 #848904
Quoting LuckyR
Nah, much more likely to be:

L. Did you strike my client with your fist? Yes or no.
D. Well, he came at me with a tire iron...
L. I asked you YES or NO did you strike my client with your fist?
J. Please answer yes or no.


That is an excellent example.