The Tale of Jack Doe by Lionino
Once upon a time, there was Jack Doe. Jack Doe was a good boy. He followed the rules, did his schoolwork diligently, treated people with respect and didnt talk back. He watched the news to inform himself, and trusted the advice of nameless experts. He worked hard to get into a good college, possibly into a degree that wont pay him much, but just maybe it will. He graduated after working part time jobs to complement his parents hard work to pay his tuition. Then, Jack got a job it wasnt the job he most wanted, it wasnt the boss he liked, but it was a job that paid. Jack did his job, nine hours a day for five days a week; that left him just enough time to watch a few episodes of the latest commercial garbage that was released to the televisions, to which he mistakenly thought there was some artistical value "the characters were fun to watch and the plot was full of twists!". If he fell asleep at the right time, he would have 7 hours and a half to rest, just right to wake up well in and for the next day.
After that, he was not a kid anymore, time started to go faster, exponentially. Everyday wasn't a new day, but more of the previous. Going out to the bar with his university buddies isn't as exciting after the tenth weekend, and he has mastered the common tasks that his job demanded there was no more challenge. As the days went by, the past increased, the future receded, possibilities decreasing, regrets mounting; time was dripping by his hands, but he had no clue of the fact.
Soon, he longed for something, something human, a deeper connection in his life. To fast forward several years and give a brief summary of what happened since there is nothing that would be lost from lack of elaboration anyway , he started dating someone, then, he married, and he kept working, now harder as the kids were coming. He would be a good dad and teach the defenseless kids how to be good boys and girls as well, and so he did. Then, the kids went to school, to college, which the hard-working dad would pay for and he had been planning for that since long; as a result of his diligence, the kids were raised by a half-present mother and by the television and internet, in the form of whatever cutting-edge gadgets Jack would buy, the latter two would etch in the minds of the children the values of the modern world, not through education or indoctrination, but by effortless endorphin rushes every five minutes injected via cheap entertainment.
Overall, Jack Doe was a really good boy. He didn't wrongthink, watched the Late Night Shows with your favorite host, featuring your favorite celebrity ("Oh, she looks so charming today!") , read the books he should have and didn't peek at those he shouldn't. Then, he had a successful life, worked his job diligently, made his employer richer, never loved his craft (and maybe bent the rules a little bit to further his career), raised his kids well, bought a car, then a house, and travelled a little bit; after all that, Jack eventually had to die. He was of old age already, and lived a happy, but not fulfilling, life. And so ends the Tale of Jack Doe who would be remembered by his kids, then by his grandkids, by his greatgrandkids a little, but besides that , to be forgotten forever.
After that, he was not a kid anymore, time started to go faster, exponentially. Everyday wasn't a new day, but more of the previous. Going out to the bar with his university buddies isn't as exciting after the tenth weekend, and he has mastered the common tasks that his job demanded there was no more challenge. As the days went by, the past increased, the future receded, possibilities decreasing, regrets mounting; time was dripping by his hands, but he had no clue of the fact.
Soon, he longed for something, something human, a deeper connection in his life. To fast forward several years and give a brief summary of what happened since there is nothing that would be lost from lack of elaboration anyway , he started dating someone, then, he married, and he kept working, now harder as the kids were coming. He would be a good dad and teach the defenseless kids how to be good boys and girls as well, and so he did. Then, the kids went to school, to college, which the hard-working dad would pay for and he had been planning for that since long; as a result of his diligence, the kids were raised by a half-present mother and by the television and internet, in the form of whatever cutting-edge gadgets Jack would buy, the latter two would etch in the minds of the children the values of the modern world, not through education or indoctrination, but by effortless endorphin rushes every five minutes injected via cheap entertainment.
Overall, Jack Doe was a really good boy. He didn't wrongthink, watched the Late Night Shows with your favorite host, featuring your favorite celebrity ("Oh, she looks so charming today!") , read the books he should have and didn't peek at those he shouldn't. Then, he had a successful life, worked his job diligently, made his employer richer, never loved his craft (and maybe bent the rules a little bit to further his career), raised his kids well, bought a car, then a house, and travelled a little bit; after all that, Jack eventually had to die. He was of old age already, and lived a happy, but not fulfilling, life. And so ends the Tale of Jack Doe who would be remembered by his kids, then by his grandkids, by his greatgrandkids a little, but besides that , to be forgotten forever.
Comments (47)
I also appreciate how the author keeps connecting the dots of Jack Doe's growth. The story starts with Jack as a child, and we see how life unfolds through the eyes of the main character, and, of course, ours as well.
Lastly, I'm unsure if there's satire in this story, or if that was the author's main point, particularly in paragraphs 3 and 4, where there's a bit of criticism of the current systemmaking his boss richer each year, raising kids, loving his wife. It's a criticism that may directly highlight the ordinary life of millions of citizens while only a few manage to do something different. We'll see when the author responds. I truly enjoyed this story. I believe that when a story has a concise plot and well-defined characters, everything is easier to understand. Congratulations to the author. Great job
It is a narrative for sure. Whether every narrative is a story is a matter of personal preferences.
Good stuff.
Might have been being a bit nitpicky there. I still think there was more that could be done with this but as I said I'm right behind the point.
I suppose one could point to an underlying message along the lines of "if you don't get busy living, you'll soon be busy dying" encouraging the reader to consider trying new things and to not be preoccupied with the mundane and expected social norms lest one end up like poor Jack Doe.
I like to say that a spectacular story needs to be told in a straight forward way and a straight forward story needs to be told in a spectacular way.
Because if a straight forward story; like here with the mundanity of a man's whole life, is told in this extremely straight forward way to the point it's just a list of events without the lyrics and poetry that would make it sing, the experience of reading it just becomes mundane as well.
I can't really give high points to this and I hope my criticism comes off as helpful for the author since it's never fun getting tough criticism. It's a functional concept, but the execution needs much more love to elevate it, and the concept is of the nature that it requires stronger execution to function.
More Does will be practicing the wuwei of lying down flat, waiting to die.
At least we got ours. Did you get yours? :monkey:
Very Hanoverian. Or Badenistic? Whoever wrote 'A Special Christmas'.
A story or an account of an anonymous, ordinary male; Jack derived from John Doe. Female equivalent Jane. Associated with plain. But clearly not all Janes are. The importance of a given name. Do we get the names we deserve; passed down through generations in a transfer of honour or power? Or do we become the name? Jack the Lad.
Jack has become synonymous with strong, fictional characters. Think of Jack Reacher (Lee Child), Jack Ryan (Tom Clancy). Why?
Quoting Cheat Sheet - Entertainment
Men can relate. They can all be heroes in their own minds. Admired by... mostly females. Of a certain kind. Or not. A lot of lazy stereotyping going on...but ain't that what we do? Instant judgement. Of who is good or bad. We tell stories, tales or lies. There is no average. There is black and white. Success or failure. Extremes offer excitement. The drama of soap operas. Families. Struggles.
Surname: Doe. Already sounds stoopid as in 'Duh!'. But wait.
Quoting Ancestry
Also the Grand Old Doe's:
Quoting House of Names
How many Jack or John Doe's among them...now long gone. As we all will be.
What's in a name? The author is about to tell us.
We, the audience, sit back to follow the story. A sequence of events. Starting with the traditional.
stock-phrase of fairy tales. 'Once upon a time...' . At least in English. Elsewhere:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/19/here-is-a-story-story-it-is-how-fairytales-are-told-in-other-tongues
Quoting Noble Dust
We get the picture of 'goodness'. Something to aim for. But questions arise: Should we always follow the rules without question, rely on 'trusted' sources? Is it 'good' so to do...for whose benefit?
As accepted ways of living. Generational values.
A time bubble of illusion. Are we watching this unfold as in The Truman Show?
Quoting Noble Dust
Jack could almost be watching himself. Evaluating his story and main character. Does he really identify with this life as fun? Happy in the delusion that this is all there is. Covered in commercial garbage.
The next paragraph jumps strangely. 'After that': the episode of being an adult John Doe, the author writes 'he was not a kid anymore'. Is this another John Doe, another time? This zooms in to the rushing excitement of the new, followed by boredom of the old. Nothing to challenge him.
Quoting Noble Dust
'More of the previous' sounds like Groundhog Day. Trapped in a time loop to learn some lesson or other.
Is that what this story is about?
But unlike Phil in Groundhog Day, this Jack has not a clue - of 'time dripping by his hands'.
Next episode. Quoting Noble Dust
Does the author introduce the reader to a new Jack? Or the new awareness of a robotic work drone. Looking for a human to connect with. We almost hear the sigh as the author fast forwards the tape or Tale of Jack Doe. Cos this is boring. Life needs to be summed up.
Quoting Noble Dust
The continuing need to be a 'good dad' raising 'defenceless kids to be 'good'. What needs to be defended or guarded against? Standing out or apart. Being out of the ordinary? Having the dangerous ideas of philosophy? Challenging the status quo. Stay anonymous. It's safer that way. And so they did. Progress. Work makes you free.
Arbeit macht frei.
At what cost? Kids raised by a 'half-present' Mum. (a divorced Jane Doe or one who needs to work to pay for the extras) They are not educated, even with if they have graduated. Brainwashed by endorphin rushes. The quick fix to a 'good' life. Any pain blocked to ensure increase feelings of wellbeing.
Then the summary conclusion of Jack Doe. A REALLY good boy. A repetition with some additions:
Quoting Noble Dust
The new 'improved' Jack Doe is bent.
His 'good' life is changed to accommodate the bending of rules for promotion. Corruption in the hierarchy. The stories of power. An increase in audience surveillance? Is Jack now a high-ranking spy of masters in a dystopian future? What is his job anyway - a television reviewer?
'Wrongthink' as in crimethink or thought crime?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime
Quoting Wiki
The tale of a happy but not fulfilling life. The happiness of pigs in mud. Ignorance is bliss.
The average guy remembered but not for long. The name continues down the line.
But not for Jane Doe. Unless she wants to.
It's a wrap for mankind.
***
Interesting take on life as we know it. Can we be brave in this new world?
Thank you, author, for a reminder of how valuable fiction and stories can be.
How free we are to imagine and philosophise. But the votes are stacked against you! No matter.
5. :sparkle:
Yes. The author does a good job of skipping over the human parts; the unseen. Where the ordinary becomes the extraordinary. The stories of a nurse or mother/father whose work goes unappreciated and unrewarded. Significant others. The small heroic acts of giving and not taking. Those who listen and act not just for the benefit of themselves or close family. Those who are single, hopeless or homeless. The sacrifices in war or peace. The lives behind the scenes or snapshots.
It's bleak, stark and unforgiving of those who don't or can't stand up to authority. The rich and powerful.
The author holds up a mirror. Cracked.
This is not just a 'list of events'.
Please clarify, if you will, what constitutes a report (in linguistics). Other than pointing to this story. Thanks.
2. Quoting 180 Proof
In what sense is this a 'statement'?
This is the second story to be called not a story. The first I read was 'Dream of Me'.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/14897/dream-of-me
I wrote in my feedback: If the piece of prose is not considered a story, then it should not have been passed for the competition.
So, this time I'm asking @Noble Dust - how do you define 'story'?
I gave it a 2.
Score to date is 45.
I'm not the right person to ask. I guess theoretically it's just a series of events, hopefully told in a way that's interesting to the reader.
Yeah. Unfortunately, I'm beginning to ask that of a few stories...
We are given a list of authors.
The question arises:
If stories have been 'enhanced', or otherwise, by AI or ChatGPT (whatever) should the readers be told? Sometimes instead of using it as a tool, it is used to fool. Would it depend on the amount of AI input?
OK. I was asking a general question related to what 'passes' as a story to be included in TPF contest.
You are :100: on point.
We can never know for sure if the entries have been enhanced by using an AI. To me that would be cheating. That is why scoring is important to me -- there'd be a consensus of what a good writing is. (This is wishful thinking on my part).
Oh right, I see that now. Obviously I accepted all the story entries, so implicitly thought they counted as stories. This one is certainly a story. It has a clear beginning, middle and end. To me Dream Of Me is less straightforwardly a story, but it does still have a narrative arc I guess.
If the writer or "writer" uses ChatGPT to generate part or all of their story, this is indeed cheating, although technically I guess it is not, since it was not prohibited in the rules. It should be, next time. If they just use it for research, this is absolutely fair, no different than if they had researched on google or anywhere else.
For the record, neither this nor any of the other stories struck me as having been ai generated. There are tools to check for this, though they are not fully reliable.
Thank you :sparkle:
Thank you :sparkle:
It is already implicit in the authorship and submission of an entry. It doesn't have to be explicit in the rules.
I like the 'Turing Test' prospect here: whether or not a purported "piece of prose" generated by a 'machine' can elicit an aesthetic response from can fool me the reader into believing 'the author is human'.
Quoting Amity
I think you may be confusing the submission criteria and the readers' evaluations of those submissions. It seems to me, a reader commenting "the piece of prose is not a story" only amounts to a reader confessing, in this context, not to have any aesthetic response to reading that "piece of prose". No doubt a subjective evaluation and not a critical or an objective assessment, but nonetheless valid, I think, to the degree it's honest.
This "piece of prose" offers a statement of 'an ordinary human life' that is a stereotype (which does not elicit any aesthetic response from my reading ... except indifference).
Quoting Noble Dust
So by that criterion, is this post "a story" too?
I think you know what I meant. What's your definition of a story?
Quoting Noble Dust
works, especially if "interesting" means more or less elicits an aesthetic response ...
Quoting 180 Proof
The term or concept of 'aesthetic response' has been repeated and bolded enough to elicit more than one kind of a response. Intellectual curiosity. How is it defined. Oh so many ways in different contexts philosophy, psychology, literature. Even in business. It is not confined to the arts.
How is it being used here?
I would say that it is a positive or negative appreciation, evaluation or perception which can be subjective, objective or a mix. And also includes indifference: uncaring, impartial, emotionless.
In other words, 'The Tale of Jack Doe' is a story. A series of events which elicits an aesthetic response. And that should have been obvious. In the common sense aspect if nothing else. A submission which has been accepted and published in a 'Short Story Competition' is a story. Otherwise, the contest is ridiculous.
Why does this matter? In general, it is related to how votes are cast. So, any author caring about such things is demeaned by the suggested evaluation criteria.
The vote of 1 - is a nonsense. 2 is not much better.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/868704
***
My appreciation for this story and its author has increased tenfold. Very clever indeed.
The title announces itself as a tale, so it must be. It includes the main character and then the traditional, fairy-tale opening 'Once upon a time...'. The author is having fun already with a myth.
The ordinariness of a 'Jack Doe' can immediately elicit an aesthetic response. Most likely an "Oh, no!"
who wants to know - *shrugs*. But some get over an immediate reaction to discover more.
And so it goes.
And questions arise. As readers, writers and evaluators engage in the discussion.
Is there a narrative? Is it important for a story to follow a traditional arc? Is it valuable to attempt something out of the ordinary - like the email form in 'Dream of Me'.
Is this what the author intended or hoped for with this offering? Does it matter?
Yes. I think so [*]. It worked. The comments attest to that.
Again, many congratulations :sparkle:
Edit: If interpreted as an evolution of humans and progress/regress, then it could be likened to the 'The Story of THING' - OK, a bit shorter with less stirring content - but that reflects the whole monotonous tone of never-endingness - until we all fall down and die...
[*] Of course, I could be quite, quite wrong :chin: :scream: :monkey:
Second, this socially critical narrative does indeed elicit an aesthetic response in me. First, there is a comic feeling, that this is really a parody of a story. There is a feeling of maybe superiority, maybe contempt for Jack, coupled with unease: to what extent is the story about me?
Then there is not just sadness, but tragedy:
Quoting Noble Dust
Jack did "everything right", but died unfulfilled and quickly forgotten. This is the tragedy of the conformist life. So, tragedy, coupled with more unease: will I ultimately fare any better?
At the core, the author is playing the game by not playing it. By omitting all the customary drama, plot points, evocative language, the Author is making a statement, both in terms of genre, by violating the rules, and socially, by presenting such a life, pointedly lacking all the traditional narrative elements, which perhaps is typical of our time. The story suggests that it's the conventional stories which are really getting it wrong, with all their gaudy, dramatic (and mostly conventionalized) embellishments, when this is closer to the reality of typical life.
So, quite a complex bouquet of a response for such a "flat" telling of events.
:smirk:
According to the context in which the phrase was used, "aesthetic response" should be clear. Prima facie. No need to overthink, Amity, my meaning here isn't cryptic.
As you read it; not as I read it, which I've stated. So we disagree without any 'objective' way of determining the true or better reading. Your comments on the "Tale ..." as well as the others have convinced me to read it again though in a different way which still leads me back to my initial impression. Stubborn? Maybe I just need more than what's offered by this "piece of prose".
Quoting 180 Proof
I like to be clear about what is meant. Perhaps not cryptic but I see 'aesthetic response' as including 'indifference'. Not just a positive or negative evaluation. It is important to know what affects people, all the better to gain attention and 'sell' a product. So, from a certain point of view (not overthinking) - your response indicates that particular subjectivity which is as important as objectivity.
Quoting 180 Proof
So, disagreement is fine and needed. It doesn't mean that either of us has a 'true' take or better understanding. I've given some wild interpretations along the way that probably don't chime with the authors' intentions. I enjoy all the perspectives on offer.
Quoting 180 Proof
Me too. I wouldn't have it any other way :wink:
And flexible enough to look again.
I think the author will appreciate the discussion. Indeed, we all learn from it :flower:
I can say however, I did not use ChatGPT, or anything like that at all, no grammar checker, turned off grammar suggestions on my writing software. Pure writing.
You had better reply to at least mine. Otherwise, I have a voodoo doll and a box of pins...
:fear: I guess I have to then.
Hah!
I've never watched it, but I have heard about it, and I would say yes.
[quote=]the past increased, the future receded, possibilities decreasing, regrets mounting[/quote]
I got this segment from Haruki Murakami, and I would call it inspiration and a reference, more than copying. But I promise everything else in the text was original.
Quoting Amity
Surely, the nail that sticks out will be hammered back.
Quoting Amity
Just a corporate middle manager.
Quoting Amity
I agree with 180 proof somewhat. I wrote this originally some two years ago as a parable more than a story and left it catching dust in my doc folder. I saw the contest and that nobody had submitted any story at the time yet, and I guessed Jack Doe could come to use.
Next contest I will come up with something on the spot, something novel perhaps impressionistic.
Brilliant. I think that's allowed. I think it's called 'intertextuality' or something.
Quoting Lionino
Of course... but...he could be more...
Quoting Lionino
Hmm. Close your eyes for the first 30 seconds of this - flickering words on screen.
Your story was great.
Precisely. I intended it as what is called a cautionary tale. Not just for the reader but for the author too, me.
:up: I think you achieved your goal.