Sound great but they are wrong!!!

BC February 02, 2024 at 23:50 4450 views 42 comments
The purpose of this thread is to collect true-sounding falsehoods and false-sounding truthhoods and thus free the world of great sounding quotes that seem helpful but actually, probably, or possibly ARE NOT TRUE. No matter what quote you think is kind of stupid, somebody else will think it truth fresh from the divine oracle.

"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

We may wonder whether there is such a thing as a "happy family", no one questions the abundance of unhappy families. What with oedipal conflicts, penis envies, death wishes, and run of the mill neuroses, one might say that "happy families" are merely simmering pots that haven't boiled over yet.

Comments (42)

javi2541997 February 03, 2024 at 08:24 #877627
Reply to BC Interesting.

Here goes one from Mishima: German philosophy lacks a valve scape.

I read that quote in one of their essays - or novels, I can't remember quite well - about the post-nuclear attack on Japan.

Basically, Mishima argued that Japan was wrong to be very influenced by German philosophy. Although they are very important for the development of human knowledge, they lack praxis and that's why they lost WWII against more practical nations.

Now, I guess that quote should be included in "false-sounding truthhoods"
Sir2u February 03, 2024 at 17:06 #877702
It must be true, I found it on the internet. :rofl:

No need to explain this one.
Paine February 05, 2024 at 01:21 #878043
Hats off for the Tolstoy starter kit. My problem with it is that styles of 'happiness' cannot be reduced to a known set of characteristics.

"Same shit, different day." The reverse is true.

"You couldn't be more wrong." That remains to be seen.

"if it was possible, it would have happened already." Trust, but verify. Oh wait, that might be another problem.....

AmadeusD February 05, 2024 at 03:21 #878061
"Could care less" is both wrong and incorrect.
Outlander February 05, 2024 at 04:16 #878067
There's no such thing as a free lunch. (Tell that to the guy in school I bullied)

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings (though perhaps the one I had in mind simply was not fat enough)

Lightning never strikes twice. (if that were the case anyone with the towering symbol of ignorance that would be a lightning rod should be tested for mental illness)

You reap what you sow. (perhaps I planted a very long-term flowering plant at a second home a squatter dug up shortly after and planted something else and, after having him shot by police on my return, I reaped something else)

It's best to let sleeping dogs lie. (Perhaps they were friendly and joined me on my daily walk and ended up mauling a would-be robber to death)

I could go on really.
L'éléphant February 05, 2024 at 04:29 #878069
"What goes around comes around". This doesn't always happen. Some bad actions never got consequences.
Jamal February 05, 2024 at 08:57 #878086
Quoting BC
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."


Finding happiness requires a whole bunch of circumstances to align just right, but there are infinitely many ways that it can remain unattained.

Or, unhappy families are more interesting to hear about from a storyteller, whereas happiness or contentment is always similarly boring from the outsiders' perspective. Every unhappy family's unhappiness has a unique drama.

I think we can say that there is truth to Tolstoy's opening line, although it may not be true without exception and without qualification. This is true of a lot of things you find in literature. Nietzsche and Oscar Wilde are full of stuff like that but they were not being stupid. Even just simple metaphors sound good but are in some sense false, at the same time as being good metaphors. As you get older, time flies, but it doesn't literally fly.

But here is my contender, which I think is truthful despite being false:

[quote=Adorno, Dialectic of Enlightenment]Only exaggeration is true.[/quote]
Hanover February 05, 2024 at 12:24 #878112
When you tell someone their work is below par, that should mean it's good because you want to be under par. Birdies and eagles are good.

If you sleep like a baby, that should mean you get up every two hours really pissed off.



Tom Storm February 05, 2024 at 21:41 #878299
Quoting BC
The purpose of this thread is to collect true-sounding falsehoods and false-sounding truthhoods and thus free the world of great sounding quotes that seem helpful but actually, probably, or possibly ARE NOT TRUE.


Most of what's cited so far are true some of the time or are poetic truths. Are there any that are never true?

Paine February 05, 2024 at 22:32 #878318
Reply to Tom Storm
"With all due respect"?
Tom Storm February 05, 2024 at 22:39 #878319
Reply to Paine Never true? I've used it and meant it.
Outlander February 05, 2024 at 22:46 #878323
Quoting Tom Storm
?Paine
Never true? I've used it and meant it.


Interesting for sure. Perhaps, where respect that is due, mentioning it superfluously becomes a mockery. Does it not? My kind, smart, sir, @Tom Storm :joke:
Tom Storm February 05, 2024 at 22:56 #878325
Quoting Outlander
Perhaps, where respect that is due...


Exactly.
Paine February 05, 2024 at 22:59 #878327
Reply to Tom Storm
I guess 'never' is too much to claim. Strike it from the list.

I have seen a lot of the dark side of it, though.
BC February 05, 2024 at 23:00 #878328
Quoting Tom Storm
Are there any that are never true?


Like, "The check is in the mail"?

No, that doesn't work because sometimes the check actually is in the mail.

How about "the United States is a democracy"? We have and have had a one-party state controlled by an oligarchy since the get-go. That the Republicans and Democrats are different parties is true every now and then, but mostly it's not true.

"Any American can be President." I would say this is obviously not true, but then there is Trump.

"Peace-loving nation"? Obviously a false platitude no matter which nation one is describing.

"You can be whatever you want to be." False, in ever so many ways.

Paine February 05, 2024 at 23:02 #878331
Reply to BC
That reminds me of a once oft heard slogan: "Army of One."
Tom Storm February 05, 2024 at 23:35 #878346
Nicely done. I think the first three are more factoids which can be contested rather than sayings per say. But I get it.

Quoting BC
How about "the United States is a democracy"?


I'd probably say it is. It may be a dysfunctional democracy, with vested interests predominating, but there is still a vote and, presumably, if the eligible voting public were really motivated and involved, real change could still happen. The problem with many political systems is the quality of the voting.

Quoting BC
Any American can be President


False. :up: Any American within certain parameters - rich, native born, connected, etc.

Quoting BC
Peace-loving nation"?


Is that a saying or just a descriptive term which is almost incoherent? I think, perhaps, you can love peace yet be in constant conflict.

Quoting BC
You can be whatever you want to be.


For some this is true. Obviously the 'whatever' can be interpreted in crazy ways outside, I think, the expression's intention. I cannot be a nuclear power plant, for instance. However, if you are rich and smart the chances are you can be whatever you want to be. Sometimes it just takes one of those.
Tom Storm February 05, 2024 at 23:38 #878347
Quoting Paine
I have seen a lot of the dark side of it, though.


For sure. And that is the issue here. Many of us are so disillusioned that we are almost incredulous at the thought there might be appropriate instantiations of such a sentiment.
BC February 06, 2024 at 00:07 #878359
A watched pot never boils.

Not true. I have personally watched a pot of cold water put over a fire come to a boil.

What is true is that watching a pot of cold water heat up and boil is not very interesting.

Quoting Tom Storm
I cannot be a nuclear power plant, for instance.


This is true.

But I maintain that even a rich and smart person can not not be anything he wants to be. He may be rich; he may be smart. But he can't be the world's greatest lover if he is as sexy as a cold wet dish rag. He might be able to become a saint if he gave up all his wealth. Brains would be helpful, as would not being too sexy for his sandals and shabby clothes. Saint Augustine had to pray to God Almighty for chastity, "just not yet!"

There doesn't seem to be a big trend for rich smart people opting for the sorts of lifestyles that lead to eventual sainthood.

Paine February 06, 2024 at 00:19 #878362
Reply to Tom Storm
That is a tough one and I have not been wearing shining armor enough times to speak with authority about it.

I have found, in work situations, that saying the phrase without saying the phrase has merit. Connecting with what is honored rather than claiming one has done so. Easier said than done, of course. But if it is impossible then it is a conflict, honor should call it that.
Tom Storm February 06, 2024 at 01:48 #878386
Reply to BC I hear you and it has got me thinking that there's a separate aspect to these 'Hallmark' style affirmations.

When someone says - 'You can be anything you want', I don't think it is meant to be taken as a literalist declaration of unlimited possibility. I think the sentiment of the saying is - 'Go after whatever you want, because you never know. Many fights are lost before they begin.'

Quite possibly some of these sorts of sayings are not intended as literalist accounts of potentialities or states of affairs, but rather they are aspirational or 'sketches' of approximate wisdom.

One of my favorites is attributed to Balzac - "Behind every great fortune, there is a great crime." It's by no means entirely true, but it is so rich in aesthetic truth that it might as well be a fact.

BC February 06, 2024 at 04:11 #878430
Quoting Tom Storm
Many fights are lost before they begin.


This accords with my experience of tilting at windmills. It never turned out well. And, I've never read your pithy sentence before, as far as I can recall.

Hallmark sentiments are positive sounding non-inferential statements which are quite harmless as long as we don't take them seriously. I suppose graduation speakers and teachers trying to inspire their students do well to invoke platitudes. It would be bad form for the speaker to say to the 2024 graduating class that "you are lucky to be graduating at all!" or "You people are going to need every bit of underserved good luck you can get!"

The children leaving posh academies and graduating from elite institutions don't really need commencement platitudes. They, privileged bastards born with golden spoons in their mouths, know things will turn out well for them under almost all circumstances.

Which brings me to agreeing how nice is Balzac's "Behind every great fortune, there is a great crime". Only I think it much more true than not. I also like Pierre-Joseph Proudon's formulation, "All property is theft." Is my 100 year old 800 square ft. house on a narrow lot theft? I rented apartments until I was over 50, so I had many years to enjoy the Proudhon without feeling guilty. Was Pierre-Joseph talking about "capital property" or personal property? I don't know. Personal property which greatly exceeds need qualifies as theft, IMHO. A small family does not need a vast McMansion on 5 acres of farm land planted in high maintenance Kentucky blue grass (popular lawn grass) and other landscaping cliches. Don't forget the 4 car garage.

How about "Workers of the world Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!" Is that true? I used to think it was unquestionably and obviously true, but I am less certain that we have nothing to lose but our chains, however chains are defined. And workers of all lands uniting seems quite far-fetched indeed, these days.
Tom Storm February 06, 2024 at 05:07 #878434
Quoting BC
How about "Workers of the world Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!" Is that true?


Wouldn’t have thought so. You may also lose your jobs or your life - depending upon the country. But the sentiment is laudable and we need more of it.

Quoting BC
Personal property which greatly exceeds need qualifies as theft, IMHO. A small family does not need a vast McMansion on 5 acres of farm land planted in high maintenance Kentucky blue grass (popular lawn grass) and other landscaping cliches. Don't forget the 4 car garage.


That’s a tough one. I think one can argue that personal property is fine. Where do we draw the line in terms of what is enough for one family? My biggest gripe with McMansions is the aesthetic crime. The vulgarity and banality of the architecture. Appalling ‘entertainment’ rooms and the like. In Australia, all the new money favours French Provincial ‘architecture’ - which is neither French nor provincial. It’s the brutal tastelessness and cultural soup of a Disney Company style guide.






Lionino February 07, 2024 at 00:48 #878679
Basically any Mark Twain quote.
baker February 08, 2024 at 21:46 #879182
Quoting BC
We may wonder whether there is such a thing as a "happy family", no one questions the abundance of unhappy families. What with oedipal conflicts, penis envies, death wishes, and run of the mill neuroses, one might say that "happy families" are merely simmering pots that haven't boiled over yet.

There really are happy families, with no end to their happiness in sight. There really are such people. I don't know how come, but there really are such people. I guess they just lack all sense of drama.


As for "sounds great but is false": fake Buddha quotes. There's a whole website dedicated to them:
https://fakebuddhaquotes.com/all-fake-buddha-quotes/
baker February 08, 2024 at 21:46 #879183
Quoting Lionino
Basically any Mark Twain quote.

How can you tell, since most of them are ironic or sarcastic anyway?
BC February 08, 2024 at 23:36 #879224
Reply to baker The Buddha misquote site is quite a rich vein. For instance, “Chaos is inherent in all compounded things. Strive on with diligence.”

I thought it was DECAY is inherent in all compounded beings.
Lionino February 09, 2024 at 00:06 #879245
Quoting baker
How can you tell, since most of them are ironic or sarcastic anyway?


Not sure where you got that sample from, Google shows me otherwise.
Tom Storm February 09, 2024 at 00:41 #879261
Quoting baker
Basically any Mark Twain quote.
— Lionino
How can you tell, since most of them are ironic or sarcastic anyway?


Yes, he was a primarily a humorist, so most of his quotes were intended as provocations or quips.

Hence -

'Never put off till tomorrow what may be done day after tomorrow just as well.'

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.”'

'God created war so that Americans would learn geography.'


LuckyR February 13, 2024 at 06:57 #880533
"It's a free country".

"The meek shall inherit the Earth".
Agree-to-Disagree February 16, 2024 at 06:31 #881461
Cheats never prosper.
Agree-to-Disagree February 16, 2024 at 10:02 #881486
The Golden Rule

Treat others as you would like others to treat you.

Bullies love this rule. They don't follow it, but they are protected by the rule from retribution.

A better rule would be "Treat others as they treat you"

Bullies get what they deserve, and nice people are treated nicely.
Christoffer February 16, 2024 at 10:31 #881492
Reply to BC

"It's freedom of speech"
BC February 16, 2024 at 20:04 #881608
Reply to Agree-to-Disagree Or, do unto others before they do it to you.

Reply to Christoffer Yes.
unenlightened February 16, 2024 at 21:34 #881622
"All you need is love."

(But I need a whole lot more.)
Benkei February 17, 2024 at 15:17 #881759
Reply to BC I actually loved that quote from Tolstoi. :rage:

Edit: I also disagree it's untrue actually. The point is that happy families share a set characteristics but each unhappy family has their own reason for being unhappy. Happy families laugh, treat each other with respect, love each other, show interest, etc.

Unhappy families might be unhappy by lacking a single one or even because of reasons outside of their control. So each "reason" is unique.
Benkei February 17, 2024 at 15:28 #881761
"practice makes perfect"

I don't like it because there's no such thing as perfection.

I much prefer the Dutch version, which translates closer to "practice begets art" with "art" in the sense of "craftsmanship".
BC February 17, 2024 at 20:00 #881816
Reply to Benkei There is the idea that 'family' is a naturally happy arrangement. I suppose in many cases it is, though 'happiness' in human affairs tends to be fleeting. A happy family today might be an unhappy family tomorrow.

I agree with your take on practice making perfection.

Hey, here's another one: True or False? This was quoted in an article about keeping the Parisian booksellers in place during the Olympics. Why book stalls on the street would pose a threat to security is beyond me.

"Anything that degrades culture shortens the paths that lead to servitude." Albert Camus





Benkei February 18, 2024 at 13:50 #881953
Quoting BC
A happy family today might be an unhappy family tomorrow.


Yes, agree with this.

Quoting BC
"Anything that degrades culture shortens the paths that lead to servitude." Albert Camus


Too vague to really mean anything, I guess? The article you refer to includes book stalls as "culture" but maybe it's just another shop? Never seen zoning laws, temporary or otherwise, as an attack on culture.

And how do you degrade culture? Outright book burnings seems rather obvious. And if it's particular or systemic? Pulling down racist statues was a hot topic. I'm not a fan of destroying heritage but rather would want to put it in context. But then a lot of people didn't and I'm not sure they were wrong.
BC February 18, 2024 at 20:08 #882018
Quoting Benkei
The article you refer to includes book stalls as "culture" but maybe it's just another shop?


Yes. Book sellers are, after all, engaged in business. They are not unique 'culture agents'. None the less, one may be very fond of the shops. Business, after all, is as much a part of Parisian culture as the Louvre.

A book store sells "cultural goods" in the same way a record store, an art store, or a haute couture store does. Presumably Parisians who peruse the various specialist book stalls and buy a book every now and then are consuming culture. Presumably people who peruse the pages of Amazon.com and buy a book (new or used) every now and then are also consuming culture.

I have never been to Paris and so have no experience of book stall culture. Their temporary closure was "for security" at the up-coming Olympic events. The Olympics are both culture and business -- probably more business than culture.
L'éléphant March 11, 2024 at 02:15 #886917
"Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

It's not always true that it's better to stay in a difficult situation than to venture out there in the unknown because it could be worse. If you have become comfortable in a situation where you have to deal with a toxic person, it is worth trying out something else because the flip side is, you could find something better.
Tom Storm March 13, 2024 at 21:13 #887737
"Make America Great Again"