Finding a Suitable Partner

Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 00:14 5900 views 54 comments
I have recently began my search for my soulmate; and started exploring dating apps. Man, I was in for a shock! Apparently, the average person (at least my age) does not know what they believe, in any substantive sense, nor why they believe it; and pretty much everyone is interested in only the superficial, hedonistic, hookup culture that (apparently) has successfully infiltrating the dating arena (for at least people my age). So, as I lie here perturbed and dismayed, thinking my suitable partner may only spawn once every 1000 years, I wonder: are there any good ways to meet an intellectually substantive partner (viz., perhaps a philosopher)?

Does anyone know of any dating apps or places to be, where people seeking a deep, long-term relationship with an intellectually substantive partner go?

Comments (54)

Outlander June 06, 2024 at 00:29 #908802
I must say this is surely a Lounge topic.

Also, stop giving me lucrative business ideas. It stirs a very troublesome aspect of my persona I have yet to reign in proper.

Hm. Actually. It looks like "intellimeet.com" is available for the dirt cheap bargain price of only $5,799 USD. Perhaps @Jamal can organize a community fundraiser. From there, it would be a pleasure, nay, the highest of honors, to be able to help make your dream a reality.

That or try either Barnes & Noble or your local library. Worth a shot, eh? :smirk:

Edit: Sadly, "intelligents.com" commands a bit more of a premium, sitting at a cool 15,000 USD. But surely they can be persuaded toward a lower, more reasonable number. Still a bit beyond my purchasing power at the moment, I'm afraid. Another day, perhaps. :meh:
Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 01:00 #908805
Reply to Outlander

I must say this is surely a Lounge topic.


That is fair: I wasn't sure what to categorize it as.

Also, stop giving me lucrative business ideas. It stirs a very troublesome aspect of my persona I have yet to reign in proper.


Is it lucrative? Everyone on the other dates seemed perfectly happy chasing fleeting sensual and sexual pleasures...and that's the real problem. I guess my soul is much older than my body (;

Hm. Actually. It looks like "intellimeet.com" is available for the dirt cheap bargain price of only $5,799 USD. Perhaps @Jamal can organize a community fundraiser.


That's entirely too much money for a domain: there's way cheaper one's than that. If you go with an odd TLD, it can even sometimes be free (e.g., '.tk', etc.).

That or try either Barnes & Noble or your local library. Worth a shot, eh? :smirk:


I guess......
T Clark June 06, 2024 at 01:07 #908809
Quoting Bob Ross
I have recently began my search for my soulmate; and started exploring dating apps.


My son met his girlfriend on Tinder. They've been together for 3 years and seem like a very good match in personal values and life plans. She's a wonderful person and we've forgiven her for the fact her father voted for Trump. I just provide this to let you know it can be done.
Outlander June 06, 2024 at 01:12 #908812
Quoting Bob Ross
I guess......


My reasoning is that you're looking for someone who is not only intelligent but content with themselves as a person, developed well beyond the child-like inner mentality and core persona of many "adults" that you seem to have little interest or connection with. My line of thinking is such a person would likely not be busying themselves trying to find a partner online but exploring the world or enriching themselves mentally in the flesh, as opposed to waiting idly by on a lackluster one-dimensional platform of lust and vanity, wouldn't you agree?
RogueAI June 06, 2024 at 01:43 #908816
Reply to Bob Ross What is your age?
Fire Ologist June 06, 2024 at 04:17 #908836
Maybe take a philosophy class. Night class. It’s a win/win opportunity. Could be cheaper than the sites Outlander found too.
Wayfarer June 06, 2024 at 04:23 #908837
Reply to Bob Ross I'm one of those totally anachronistic people who's never signed up to Tinder. Mainly, I guess, because at age 70, I was lucky enough to meet my life's partner 40 odd years ago at University, before apps were even a thing. So - I don't really have any recommendations. Although I do recall hearing a radio interview with a guy in his 40's who had made a huge amount of money in tech and didn't have to work. He was lonely, but then he got a dog. The dog itself, apart from being a companion, also allowed him to strike up conversations with other dog-owners at the park, and that's how he found some who went on to become his nearest friends. (I will add, like @T Clark above, my son too met his dear one on Tinder and they've been married 4 years. There's nothing the matter with that, but I imagine Tinder has, let's say, a poor noise-to-signal ratio.)
Deleted User June 06, 2024 at 04:31 #908838
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
LuckyR June 06, 2024 at 05:49 #908852
Reply to Bob Ross

Well first of all, the "average person", isn't on dating apps. And depending on what the app specializes in, it may actually select against what you're looking for. Better to meet up with the types of people who have the qualities you seek in a nonromantic situation, then among that group, start a romance yourself (without an app).

Good luck.
javi2541997 June 06, 2024 at 05:55 #908855
Ironically, this pompous thread is on the main page while 'Kant's ethic is protestant' is in the lounge. Sometimes you will never know how TPF will work. Like the future 'suitable partner' you are looking for, @Bob Ross
fdrake June 06, 2024 at 08:48 #908867
Quoting Bob Ross
Does anyone know of any dating apps or places to be, where people seeking a deep, long-term relationship with an intellectually substantive partner go?


Dating as a philosophy enthusiast:

Principle A) Your candidate partners, matches and dates will almost certainly not care about philosophy. At least as much as you. People are good to talk to regardless. You're picking one of your most extremely exemplified traits and filtering on it, just raw statistics filters out most of the people you could get on well with. It's the same principle as the fact that someone who's 190cm tall looking for someone taller will not find many.

Principle B) Asking philosophical questions can count as asking intrusive questions. Be careful.

Principle C) This place of enlightened intellectual hook up culture and romance doesn't exist, never has and never will. It would be a special sort of hell. If you want to do philosophical dating, go and think about the experiences and norms you encounter. But don't talk about them on dates as it's a horrible faux pas.

Principle D) people still want to be approached and talked to. Even though maybe 1-10% of women (depending on your age) might think approaching them in public means you're a sex offender (only a mild exaggeration). If you're looking for women, default to the idea that people you approach will look at you like a threatening wild animal. Would you want a wild animal to corner you in a night club? No. Or approach while you're walking home through a side street? No. But in a public place, especially if they're with others? That's more ok.

Principle E) If you make an advance on someone, be direct with your intentions but tell them that it's okay if they refuse. When in doubt, imagine what an English stereotype would do then do the opposite.

Good luck!
unenlightened June 06, 2024 at 11:50 #908887
Be yourself in a public place. If you are unusual but not creepy you will attract the interest of those who might be interested. It might take more than 5 minutes. Hey look Mum, that guy's reading a book/ feeding the birds,/playing the mandolin/whittling a spoon/doing tai chi. Anything you fancy apart from "searching for a soulmate" That's too creepy and predatory!
fdrake June 06, 2024 at 12:10 #908888
Quoting unenlightened
If you are unusual but not creepy you will attract the interest of those who might be interested.


These days people don't approach others in public I'm afraid. Despite most people desiring to be approached more.
Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 12:15 #908889
Reply to T Clark :heart:

I will keep trying then...
Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 12:16 #908890
Reply to Outlander That's entirely fair: I do think I am more likely to find a partner in the world as I am merely doing what I normally do; but that may take some serious time, as I am introverted and do not go out much. I will have to start getting out more.
Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 12:20 #908891
Reply to RogueAI

Lower 20s: how about you?
Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 12:32 #908895
Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 12:34 #908897
Reply to LuckyR That is definitely worth a shot.
Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 12:34 #908898
unenlightened June 06, 2024 at 12:35 #908899
Quoting fdrake
These days people don't approach others in public I'm afraid. Despite most people desiring to be approached more.


Sure they do, but you have to look up from your book occasionally and look around and smile at anyone who's looking at you. If they smile back, you say "I love this book..." and then they want to know what book, and...
Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 12:38 #908900
Reply to fdrake

You're picking one of your most extremely exemplified traits and filtering on it


I am realizing more-and-more that you are right: I didn’t think it would be rare to find someone who at least has thought through their positions, but apparently that is a lot to ask…


Principle B) Asking philosophical questions can count as asking intrusive questions. Be careful.


Yeah, I figured that out the hard way.

Principle C) This place of enlightened intellectual hook up culture and romance doesn't exist,


I am not looking for an intellectual hook up culture: I want out of the hook up culture altogether.

Principle D) people still want to be approached and talked to.


This one is the area that I need to work the most on. I usually avoid women in public places (: It is time to get thrown to the wolves.
fdrake June 06, 2024 at 13:22 #908907
Quoting unenlightened
Sure they do,


I was exaggerating.

The norms changed into a massive clusterfuck. Over the past few years I've talked about it with straight woman friends and acquaintances my age-ish quite a lot. I'd say about 30 people. There were two broad camps.

The first camp believed that being approached by a man (first) in public at all is creepy or predatory in principle - the overwhelming preference for them was not to have it happen at all ever. This was about 25% of the women I talked with. NB, this wasn't framed as a strong personal taste, it was framed as a moral wrong on the approacher's part.

The second camp believed that being approached by a man (first) in public is okay so long as they're not creepy, predatory or intrusive about it. Those situations differed. Some people saw it as creepy, predatory or intrusive if men approached them in public when they were with friends. Some would need friends there for it to be ok. The norms were also very different regarding approach strategies - some people found it creepy/predatory if the guy didn't declare their intent almost immediately (eg trying to make it fully explicit that they're attracted), some people found it creepy if the guy declared his prior to socialising for quite some time. This broad group was 75% of the women I talked with. Broadly speaking they distinguished personal preference from morality, unlike the first group. Some things just gave them the ick which others would require. Such is compatibility.

Both of groups on average would not approach men even if interested (one person I talked with would and has). And both saw the kind of situation you described as a male entitlement to assume it means you can approach them for a conversation at all, never mind an amorous one! Different people have different "clear signals" of their interest, which aren't clarified beforehand.

Of all the guy friends I have, I only know one other bloke who actually talks with women they don't already know (when they have any amorous or sexual intent) in public regularly. The remainder have seen the above and opt out of the clusterfuck, either because they fear the peculiar rejection of being seen as a creep in an unpredictable fashion, or because they don't want to ruin the first camp's day.

People in Camp 1 still engage in the Camp 2 social invitation graces, but they do so as social graces and nothing more.

The overall shift I've seen with these norms over time is the emergence of the first group and those norms getting absorbed by blokes I speak with.

Camp 2 is kind of business as usual for me, what I grew up with, and the norm you're expressing in your post. The default assumption being that if someone meets your eyes, smiles at you, or otherwise engages you in niceties in public that means trying to start talking with that person can be assumed (in principle) to be ok. It's also overwhelmingly what I see when I talk with older people (like 35+) about romantic norms. The Camp 1 people were younger.

It's also very much class coded. Working class dive bars have the camp 2 social norms among the young 'uns. And straight coded - I go to a gay bar and any bloke who behaves like camp 2 is an absolute prude.

Quoting Bob Ross
This one is the area that I need to work the most on. I usually avoid women in public places (: It is time to get thrown to the wolves.


Good luck! Try going out with your friends and approaching women who have other friends there. You get moral support and so do they. Rejection is the default. It always stings a bit but you get used to it.
RogueAI June 06, 2024 at 13:48 #908916
Agree-to-Disagree June 06, 2024 at 14:06 #908918
Quoting unenlightened
Sure they do, but you have to look up from your book occasionally and look around and smile at anyone who's looking at you.


Sure they do, but you have to look up from your [s]book[/s] phone occasionally and look around and smile at anyone who's looking at you.
unenlightened June 06, 2024 at 16:55 #908949
Quoting Agree-to-Disagree
Sure they do, but you have to look up from your
phone occasionally and look around and smile at anyone who's looking at you.


Nobody ever looks up from a phone, and no one who is on a phone in public is likely to be noticed at all except as an arsehole talking to someone who isn't there like a schizo. The point of being in a public place in this context is to be present to the world, and engaged in an activity, but open to the presence of others. I gave many options apart from a book, and none of them was a phone for good reason.

Bob Ross June 06, 2024 at 17:18 #908954
Leontiskos June 06, 2024 at 21:44 #909001
Quoting Bob Ross
I wonder: are there any good ways to meet an intellectually substantive partner (viz., perhaps a philosopher)?


Quoting fdrake
Principle A) Your candidate partners, matches and dates will almost certainly not care about philosophy. At least as much as you. People are good to talk to regardless. You're picking one of your most extremely exemplified traits and filtering on it, just raw statistics filters out most of the people you could get on well with. It's the same principle as the fact that someone who's 190cm tall looking for someone taller will not find many.


I tend to disagree with fdrake. There are philosophers and there are philosophers. By "intellectually substantive partner" I suspect that Bob is thinking of someone who is philosophical in a sense that is not exclusively academic. It is worth noting that intellect is not merely one of Bob's traits, but specifically one of his values, and I believe it is worth taking the effort to try to find someone who shares that central value. Intellectual mismatch is not a minor problem in relationships.

Of course, it is likely that his conception of "intellectually substantive" is overly narrow, and in that way I agree with your point. If so, the criterion should be broadened but not abandoned.
Bob Ross June 07, 2024 at 00:43 #909028
Reply to Leontiskos

Fair enough. I am not looking for an actual philosopher (in an academic sense) nor do they need to be overly interested in the various branches of philosophy that I am; but I would like to be with someone that I can intellectually resonate with. I value people who have put in the intellectual work, even if I disagree with them, to hash out their worldview and be able to explicate it (adequately); and I value critical, genuine, and creative thinking.

I am not shocked that most people don't study philosophy on their own time; but I am kind of shocked how little these women (I have talked to) know about what they believe (in any substantive sense). Some of them even boast that they are "apolitical"......
fdrake June 07, 2024 at 16:45 #909146
Quoting Bob Ross
know about what they believe (in any substantive sense)


People in general don't enjoy the kind of thinking that inclines you toward philosophy. My impression is that it usually feels some combination of pedantic, combative, frustrating and destabilising. None of which are pleasant feelings.

Thinking philosophically isn't full of pleasant feelings anyway is it? Even when you get something out of it. It's work.
BitconnectCarlos June 07, 2024 at 17:42 #909156
Reply to Bob Ross

Quoting Bob Ross
This one is the area that I need to work the most on. I usually avoid women in public places (: It is time to get thrown to the wolves.


My advice: Work on establish comfort, connection & rapport before diving into the "what is your worldview and is it rationally coherent" discussion. :wink:

If you're serious about it pick up the gospels and emulate the character that Jesus describes down to the T.
Bob Ross June 07, 2024 at 22:13 #909203
Reply to fdrake

That's fair. I guess I just value it strongly. I don't like people that are just regurgitations of their society's norms, like a leaf getting blown in the wind.
Bob Ross June 07, 2024 at 22:14 #909204
Reply to BitconnectCarlos

That is fair. Although I am not a Christian.
BitconnectCarlos June 07, 2024 at 22:46 #909210
Reply to Bob Ross

Doesn't matter. Jesus is a character in a book.
RogueAI June 08, 2024 at 17:31 #909318
Reply to Bob Ross You might meet some intellectually stimulating/philosophical people volunteering for a (liberal) political campaign.
Bob Ross June 09, 2024 at 18:15 #909453
Reply to RogueAI Probably, but I am conservative.
jgill June 09, 2024 at 23:15 #909497
Quoting Bob Ross
?RogueAI
Probably, but I am conservative.


Go to a Republican fundraiser and see what happens. Do not mention anything philosophical. Complement a young lady on her MAGA cap.
Bob Ross June 10, 2024 at 01:12 #909516
Reply to jgill

Lol. Maybe.

I do agree that not mentioning philosophy is better at attracting women. I am pretty sure philosophizing is a turn-off for the vast majority of humans (to my shock and dismay).
L'éléphant June 10, 2024 at 03:02 #909528
Reply to Bob Ross
You'll find your partner unexpectedly.
javi2541997 June 10, 2024 at 04:54 #909533
Quoting L'éléphant
You'll find your partner unexpectedly.


I agree. But that might mean @Bob Ross would have to stop finding a suitable partner. So, the only way to meet a suitable person is to stop looking for her (him), because she (he) will show up unexpectedly.

Hmm... is this a paradox?
Mikie June 10, 2024 at 04:56 #909534
Quoting Bob Ross
my search for my soulmate


Mistake.

Quoting Bob Ross
I wonder: are there any good ways to meet an intellectually substantive partner (viz., perhaps a philosopher)?


No. There are no philosophers anymore. And if there are, you won’t find them.

Both are silly mistakes. No soulmates; no philosophers. Who would even want that?

Looks like you need a nerdy girl. They’re probably the best ones anyway, in the scheme of things.

Good luck out there.

Benkei June 10, 2024 at 07:00 #909542
Nature has an excellent process for this; it's called attraction. It's worked for millions of years. If you're attracted to him/her, go for it. If not, ignore. From personal experience, people overthink the whole process. It doesn't require deep analysis. Some people will throw themselves at you and we're all only human and might have sex or one-night stands. Nothing wrong with that but don't confuse sex and lust with attraction. They're not the same. The second can lead to love, the first won't.

Also, "soul mates" is an overromantisation. Like any relationship, communication is key as well as recognising other people's moods as well as your own to avoid feeding negative feedback loops. How a discussion about doing the dishes will lead to divorce is because people just keep adding oil to the fire.
Benkei June 10, 2024 at 07:01 #909543
Quoting Mikie
Looks like you need a nerdy girl. They’re probably the best ones anyway, in the scheme of things.


Only partially right. She needs to be Christina, because christian girls have never been taught what not to do in bed.
javi2541997 June 10, 2024 at 07:23 #909546
Quoting Benkei
How a discussion about doing the dishes will lead to divorce is because people just keep adding oil to the fire.


Yeah, but what I have never understood is why those kinds of couples are still together despite they keep adding oil to the fire. It seemed to me that they just "love" that. The thorny feeling of constant confrontation...
fishfry June 10, 2024 at 07:41 #909548
Quoting Bob Ross
Does anyone know of any dating apps or places to be, where people seeking a deep, long-term relationship with an intellectually substantive partner go?


Get with the program, man. AI partners are the way to go.

https://romanticai.com/

ps -- I played around with this. It's an uncanny chatbot. Once they get this tech into the life sized love dolls, nobody will need real people. We're all simulations anyway, so I'm told. Here you go, $577 on Amazon. Searching "sex dolls" brings up lady dolls, must be more demand for that, not assuming anything about anyone's sexual preferences.

https://www.amazon.com/Realistic-Breast-Silicone-Pleasure-62-2Inch/dp/B0CTJV3BQ1/ref=sr_1_1

Free shipping!

[Now Amazon will remember I looked this up forever]

Also, if you're looking for mentally stimulating companionship, Woody Allen wrote a story about hookers who specialize in intellectual conversation.

Well, I heard of this young girl. Eighteen years old. A Vassar student. For a price, she’ll come over and discuss any subject—Proust, Yeats, anthropology. Exchange of ideas. You see what I’m driving at?

The Whore of Mensa

Bob Ross June 13, 2024 at 13:05 #909982
Reply to L'éléphant

Fair enough.
Bob Ross June 13, 2024 at 13:06 #909983
Reply to Mikie

:up:

I would still like to strive towards finding my soulmate, although I agree it is very unlikely, while maintaining an open-mind to those who may not fit the exact description.
Bob Ross June 13, 2024 at 13:06 #909984
Reply to fishfry

AI girlfriends are wholly inadequate substitutes for real girlfriends.
Moliere June 13, 2024 at 15:26 #910007
Quoting Bob Ross
Does anyone know of any dating apps or places to be, where people seeking a deep, long-term relationship with an intellectually substantive partner go?


I have no tips for partners. Love is a queer thing, which some say is its attraction.


But for intellectually substantive long-term relationships: I can say a little on that. And really, I have a hard time thinking that finding a partner is much different in terms of finding someone compatible. (not sure if there is a method for anything more certain, which is part of the anxiety -- and perhaps even joy -- of the task) -- on that, I find most of my friends from similar interests. Usually there are local groups interested in similar-ish enough things, and really that's what church is basically about: building community together, which happens to include partner-matching in various rituals.

So: commune with people in things you like, keep an open eye, and wait until you feel the moment is right I suppose is my thought. After that: ask someone else.
Benkei June 13, 2024 at 18:22 #910042
Quoting Moliere
Love is a queer thing


Only if you're gay...
javi2541997 June 13, 2024 at 18:34 #910046
Quoting Moliere
Love is a queer thing,


Quoting Benkei
Only if you're gay...


I don't get what you mean, Benk.
Bob Ross June 13, 2024 at 21:11 #910084
Reply to Moliere

See that's the problem: there aren't any congregations for people who think deeply but don't subscribe to a mainstream religion...or at least none that I know of. Where's the aristotelian club??? (;
wonderer1 June 14, 2024 at 11:00 #910178
Looking into what groups can be found through meetup.com might be worthwhile.
L'éléphant June 16, 2024 at 22:33 #910593
Quoting javi2541997
But that might mean Bob Ross would have to stop finding a suitable partner. So, the only way to meet a suitable person is to stop looking for her (him), because she (he) will show up unexpectedly.

Hmm... is this a paradox?


You missed the point. Obviously, he's dismayed at the artificiality of the infrastructure for finding suitable mates. And he's dismayed at the type of people that gather in such platform. Then why go there?

No -- the "suitable partner" is not going to show up unexpectedly. The connection, while he is spending time at some place, is the unexpected one.

Moliere June 18, 2024 at 00:46 #910739
Reply to unenlightened Reply to Bob Ross

My "congregations" were theatre troupes, and I have no regrets.

@unenlightened said the right things. If you connect then that's a good promise, though it may end in disappointment.

Love is more an act of feeling and giving than an act of calculation, though our current world requires us to think in those terms (due to patrilineal laws, etc.)

Even so: I'm certain you can find bookish and contemplative persons who don't just want what seems superficial.

In fact I'd say that's what most people are looking for. (heh, not the "bookish", but the "not superficial")