People Are Lovely
Generally we tend to focus more on the negatives in fellow humans than on the positives.
Do you believe the balance between our focus on the positives and negatives has an optimal state or are we necessarily in various states of flux regarding how we regard others?
As an additional and more personal question, do you find it hard to be nice to people?
As this is a personal question I should probably answer it myself. My answer is YES. I do find I can be quite blunt with people and cause offense without even knowing I have. For this reason I do try, and find it hard sometimes, to be nicer to people (and often fail! :D)
Do you believe the balance between our focus on the positives and negatives has an optimal state or are we necessarily in various states of flux regarding how we regard others?
As an additional and more personal question, do you find it hard to be nice to people?
As this is a personal question I should probably answer it myself. My answer is YES. I do find I can be quite blunt with people and cause offense without even knowing I have. For this reason I do try, and find it hard sometimes, to be nicer to people (and often fail! :D)
Comments (40)
For various reasons, some people can become sexist, homophobic, racist, jingoistic, and many other negatives one can find in an individual or a group of people. This short list of negatives, which could be significantly longer, should answer your first question.
Quoting I like sushi
Despite the negatives I find it easy to be nice to people. There is a hidden truth that by being nice you can also be rewarded for, well, being nice. Being nice can also be viewed as kindness, which when professed constantly can be viewed as a good trait. I also find niceness, a sign of innocence when professed sincerely.
Humans quite frankly don't live that long, and as they age can become quite ugly.
Do you see this as a persistent trend or one that has waxed or waned over time?
Is this not the natural consequence of having a generally positive attitude? I assume everyone is amenable, cooperative and kind, and so it is remarkable when someone is unpleasant, and that is noteworthy, or newsworthy. I don't mention or even notice that every slice of bread is delicious and satisfying, but the odd mouldy crust gets my attention.
This is how I go on here; mostly i assume posters are friendly and want to arrive at the truth and a better understanding together, and when there are accusations and unpleasant comments, they stand out as something that has to be thought about in an entirely different way. What is this person trying to do, here? Have I upset them?
In what sense 'lovely'? Beautiful, attractive, pleasant, enjoyable. In a social situation are we easy-going and pleasing in manner? Loved and appreciated for being kind? Careful and caring.
I note this has been placed under 'Ethics', so is it a case that our behaviour to others reflects, is related to our taste and liking (aesthetics)? Are we more forgiving of friends than those we perceive as being hostile to us. Happier when we find beauty within and give expression to that in a smile, laughter and hope. Compared to feeling bad when we sense an ugly, mean spirit expressing hate?
Quoting I like sushi
I think humans are necessarily in a state of flux, depending on mood and circumstances. And what we digest - reading, listening, looking and learning, eating and drinking. If there is an intake imbalance, then our output might likewise be affected. The more we can be open to another perspective, no matter our 'likes/dislikes', the more we might understand and less likely to become unlovely, narrow-minded bigots.
People seem to be attracted to, angered or swayed by, extreme stories in the media. Or just plain celebrity gossip. A daily, if not hourly fix of woe, angst, vicarious excitement.
Quoting I like sushi
Sometimes but not generally. It's about caring - not about yourself or what people think or how they look.
Start by being good to yourself. Not giving yourself too much of a hard time. Still that unbeautiful internal voice. Take good care of yourself.
But it's clear that even if we have a lovely garden, it might be a single weed that gets our attention. It stands out from the rest...and needs to be pulled.
Not that weeds are bad! And some wilder gardens can be just as beautiful in their own way.
Quoting unenlightened
Yes, I think that is true. And one of the reasons I try to counterbalance any negativity by at least doubling the positive. Being aware of the pull of negative emotions. Accepting there will be 'low' moods but not dwelling there too long, when possible. Not always easy...
I think that through ratiocination, over the many years, we have actually recently been able to identify negative traits or even personalities in people. Much of this is done through the rearing of society through even the ideology of natural laws and rights of a group of people under a common banner. This banner has mostly been the concept of life without undue duress and the privilege of freedom provided by a government through a social contract, upon birth.
As ChatGPT concluded, which I think is also correct, is the notion of empathy. Whether one likes it or not, people are diverse on most statistical spectrums. Your welcome to derive your own conclusion based on opinions and thus confirmation bias based on them. Some of this is highly self-reinforcing...
Well, of course! Ain't that what I just said? :wink:
From which perspective?
Sure. Then read Plato.
Plato rarified the fact that Socrates death was due to bias professed towards him.
People never stop scrapping I guess :)
Except the fact is he did not say this.
To the degree they are interesting (i.e. unfamiliar), I agree.
Quoting 180 Proof
Well, that's an interesting perspective :chin:
The unfamiliar certainly holds its attraction, as can the familiar. Like attracts like. Why we want who or what we want can be a magical mystery.
A bizarre and beautiful spider can be interesting. Right up until it exudes its venom through its fangs.
Your words had a strange effect. I thought: 'strangers across a crowded room'. First Love?
The shimmering image of the South Pacific (50's film) with its themes of romance, prejudice and war.
Some enchanted evening - South Pacific
Lovely. :flower:
Familiarity breeds ... "bizarre and beautiful spider" bites.
Or mistaken identity shock of recognition (like "seeing a ghost"). Btw, I don't care for musicals. :meh:
Contempt with familiarity. I can see this in close long-term relationships when boredom sets in. Or everyday life with no obvious heroism. But the ordinary can be extraordinary.
Do you find that the more you know about someone/something that it leads to a loss of respect? Not valued as much as the initial impact on senses and intelligence?
Would you look for more excitement - an exotic bite that could kill ya'?
What about the closeness of family? Your Mum. She might bore you to death with her memories and repetition of stories but does that lead to contempt? Perhaps just fleeting if love still there...
Just as in philosophy, we read and respond to the same old questions and responses. But a love persists. We can re/engage by using imagination/creativity, building on tradition to think outside the box. Make it interesting by a turn of the head or eye-swivel.
Quoting 180 Proof
:smile: A ghost did appear - my ex-husband! Love's sweet dream :smirk:
Musicals. I used to enjoy. Tastes change.
Sorry if I assaulted your (and others') senses with a negative aesthetic experience. But you probably didn't even watch the clip. Cringing is allowed. Without pain, there is no...
BTW, I think more men enjoy musicals than would care to admit - same with love stories :razz:
Our lives and communication with each other would become unnecessarily difficult or impossible if we'd focus on negatives only. In fact, it is irrational to focus on negatives when positive interpretations are available (this is basically the principle of charity).
To focus on negatives enables us to avoid negatives. To focus on positives enables us to enjoy positives. They're not mutually exclusive, so I'm not sure there's anything to balance here. Both are functions of our interest, both increase our fitness.
Quoting I like sushi
And this --
Quoting Tom Storm
I do not find it hard to be nice to people. But, like Tom, I don't have real expectations of people -- in general. Except when it's within a context:
If I am talking to a professional adviser, I expect them to be, well...competent and professional in demeanor.
I do expect people to be chill when in a stressful time or situation. For example, during covid, I still tried to be friendly even though everyone was on edge for fear of getting sick.
I learned the hard way that the quality that I add to my work wouldn't necessarily be reciprocated by others I work with. Some will have varying degrees of aptitude or willingness to be good themselves.
Accepting people as they are is good. But accepting people as they are unconditionally would destroy me. If I couldn't bring myself to be nice to them (rarely happens), I just avoid them.
I figure our response is something we do not know ourselves.
This is somewhat along the lines of what I was considering when I wrote the OP. Do we think we are what we perceive ourselves to be? How does this relate to the overall balance regarding negative and positive perspectives?
All too often in my life I have expressed certain opinions about myself to others and they have strongly disagreed.
I do think it is pretty clear that negative experiences drive us harder than positive ones, yet we are also overly optimistic and that this most probably balances out our higher attentiveness to negativity (threats and such).
It is interesting to see how the American "Can do" attitude has, to some degree, also bled over into arrogance. Is the American "Can do" attitude only a vestige of the previous generations now or is it still alive and kicking?
Yes. Most think they have boundaries - drawing the line - which they would not cross in any event. Certain long-held positions and beliefs in place ready and waiting to be tested. Including bias and prejudice. I agree we might not always know how we would actually respond to sudden events. You would think that we might come prepared by exercises in 'What if...?' Or having perspectives/judgements when reading stories, real life or fiction.
Intuition or instinct often takes over when there is no time to think. What to do when you see someone in trouble in fast-flowing river or a wild sea. Would you jump in to save a dog, your dog?
We have patterns of thought, ways of looking at the world and judge ourselves and others. So, usual responses are pretty well known. Even if a white, male, American Christian does not act like we might expect or hope...
Earlier, I wrote:
Quoting Amity
The more we read of 'Americans' and their political/judicial system, the more we shake our heads.
But there is more than one kind of 'American'. Some voices are never heard or aren't recognised. It's scary to see the anger and violence that results. Always simmering under the surface. With guns, loved, polished and used. Beautiful to some, they symbolise individual control and believed to be a God-given right.
Back to the underlined above. @I like sushi, you didn't respond. There seems to be a path from aesthetics to ethics. Seeing people as 'lovely', or not. Loved or hated. The basis of how well they are treated. How practices are unjust towards those not favoured. The unforgiving good v bad.
I am not entirely convinced by this distinction, but on the surface it seems like a reasonable enough demarcation (if for convenience only). I am probably more inclined to view 'ethics' as an offshoot of 'aesthetics' if that is what you are asking. It is still pretty much an unformed thought as I have only relatively recently begun to look more carefully at ethics and morals in general.
Thanks for your response. :sparkle:
Negative feedback has made me less stupid about what is happening. I do not know enough about this life to weigh that against the nurturing that has benefited me and others. Soft power is less visible than the hard kind. We remember the hard better. I celebrate the better acts, but it is mostly what I regret which follows me into dreams.
Being less punitive to oneself is not the same exchange of information that being less of an asshole to other persons is. Kafka put it well when describing a door made for us that we are convinced cannot be entered. A peculiar asymmetry. We are stuck with ourselves but have limited agency.
The culture "war" happening here is happening everywhere.
We solve it together or fall under the same sword.
Well, it could be argued that so-called 'culture wars' have been happening since time immemorial.
Quoting Paine
Poetically drastic. How 'together' can the human race be?
Societal and religious divisions are all part and parcel of political battles as to who is right or best to lead a country. Even the term 'cultural war' is disputed:
Quoting Guardian - Social History - Culture wars
I think it is just called Culture ;)
Thanks for opening another can of worms: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/culture
Culture is what animals (humans) do when they are together. It is our common understanding and/or regulatory scheme (axis mundi).
The best definition I have seen is from Geertz (even though it is actually a definition of religion) as it sums up humanity pretty darn well ;)
Guilty, as charged and point taken. As another poet said, "the more that things change, the more they stay the same."
Ach, I knew ye were being a playful wee deil :naughty:
Quoting Paine
Hey, steady on! We're in danger of falling into the hole of transcendental unity. :monkey:
Quoting Socratic-method - Alphonse Karr - quote meanings and interpretations
I can agree with Karr while entertaining Baudelaire:
Quoting Baudelaire, Le Peintre de la Vie Moderne
Not exactly nostalgia.
Section 1, Beauty, Fashion, and Happiness. Third paragraph.
Here is a link:
Baudelaire, Le Peintre de la Vie Moderne