RogueAIDecember 10, 2024 at 20:232825 views28 comments
The shooter should spend the rest of his life in jail, but anyone losing sleep over this CEO being gunned down? I look at it like a mafia don getting assassinated.
Comments (28)
LeontiskosDecember 11, 2024 at 00:23#9528930 likes
The shooter should spend the rest of his life in jail, but anyone losing sleep over this CEO being gunned down? I look at it like a mafia don getting assassinated.
I don't lose sleep over events like this. But that's sarcasm to say it.
In fact, the shooter and his supporters do not understand what causes the health care to skyrocket in price in the US. The insurance companies are not to blame for the high costs, and they're not to blame for denying this or that procedures. Tests, latest technology, astronomical hospitalization, all these contribute to the high costs of health care. And the general public do not bother to look at the charges that hospitals send to the insurance companies.
Reply to RogueAI I refuse to allow a sociopath who committed first degree murder to have any voice or to shape the direction of any conversation regarding anything other than what sentence he deserves, with the objective of silencing him forever.
Let his actions be in vain, for nothing, just so he can die anonymously alone 50+ years later.
Whatever conversation needs to be had about whatever is going on in the world can arise as it would have anyway.
I don't lost sleep over the death of someone so distant, but I don't subtract sympathy based upon Brian Thompson's occupation or standing. That the shooter was also of privilege also doesn't subtract any sympathy by me. My lack of sympathy for the shooter is based upon him being a shooter.
What does infuriate me is any suggestion Brian Thompson deserved the death penalty from a deranged street murderer any more than other random person walking about.
Senator Fetterman said it well:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fetterman-blasts-liberal-magazine-calling-210015478.html
Reply to Tzeentch The doctors refused to provide the care, not him. Why not kill them?
The problem with US healthcare is that insurance is unaffordable for many, not that the claims process for those insured is more burdensome than would exist in a nationalized healthcare system. It's not like nations with national free healthcare approve every procedure and efficiently provide service.
In fact, the reason the US has rejected public healthcare is due to fears of not being able to choose one's own doctors and having their healhcare decisions made by beurocrats.
Reply to Hanover I live in a country with nationalized healthcare and it's awful too, but perhaps that's just a question of who bears final responsibility.
Like I said, I don't know the details of this case. If the CEO was some form of paragon who did nothing to deserve such a grizzly end, then it's a shame.
Somehow I doubt that, though.
If one sets up an enterprise that's meant to ensure people's health, and one does a shitty job at it, one is destroying lives, and then someone might come along and destroy yours in revenge.
I live in a country with nationalized healthcare and it's awful too, but perhaps that's just a question of who bears final responsibility.
While there's plenty we could do better in the Netherlands, describing it as awful is a gross exaggeration. Healthcare outcomes are still superior to 95% of other countries.
Reply to Hanover There's a simple two word term for such ridiculous stances: victim blaming.
You know the underlying psychological process is that people want to distance themselves form the victim due to fear of becoming a victim themselves. So they would never be a victim because:
1. they'd be nice and accept insurance claims
2. would not walk around at that time at that place
3. would not walk around alone
4. would pack a gun and shoot him first
etc.
It indeed says a lot about people blaming the victim and that's that they are fundamentally scared.
They have not done so. They havent been given the option.
Anyway, fuck this guy. Im not in favor of murdering people you dont like, but people are murdered every day its only when its a rich dude that theres a national manhunt. Thats whats irritating.
The issue isnt with the CEO, its with the corrupt, immoral, profit-over-people system that leads to his existence.
Reply to Hanover Is it possible other health insurance executives in the industry might reevaluate their companies' denials of coverage policies in light of the murder? If one thinks that every denial of coverage could result in one's murder, wouldn't that be an incentive to reduce those denials a bit?
It reminds me a little of how societies used to round up and behead monarchs who misbehaved.
Obviously that was extrajudicial, but at the same time, perhaps it is good that powerful people are reminded every once in a while that there a limits to how far one can push innocent people.
Admittedly, this is assuming the CEO was a crook. Maybe he wasn't, and this killer was just some deranged person. But that wouldn't make for an interesting philosophical discussion.
The murderer did not address the issue, clarify the issue, or make the world in any way a better place.
Actually, Im not sure about that. That sounds good its what you hear all the time by guys like Josh Shapiro. Its conventional and comforting. But theres been a LOT of talk about the healthcare system this past week, and particularly the jubilant/indifferent response in many circles.
Whether that spotlight ends up making the world better, who knows. Imagine if it led to even something like a public option that would be better indeed.
Is it possible other health insurance executives in the industry might reevaluate their companies' denials of coverage policies in light of the murder? If one thinks that every denial of coverage could result in one's murder, wouldn't that be an incentive to reduce those denials a bit?
Considering someone is immoral enough to kill someone else for only having allegedly denied a valid insurance claim, it is entirely possible that someone else will exercise the poor judgment to modify his claims processing based upon fear of murder. That is, sure, someone might make a bad decision. It happens all the time.
To the actual possibility that claims handling will be impacted by some murdering thug, that's pretty doubtful. The driver of corporations is profits and if claims payments are going to be increased, premiums will as well. What you make is the case for stricter police enforcement and greater protection of corporate decision makers if you actually believe decisions are now going to be made literally at gunpoint.
This idea of villifying corporations to the extent you actually believe the murder of their leaders is understandable and should give pause to reconsideration of current policy is a considerable part of the reason the left saw the election results they did. You can't expect to hold any moral high ground if you're going to insinuate that murder is an acceptable response to a health insurance denial and then somehow condemn the relative child's play of infractions committed by those across the political aisle.
That anyone has any hesitation to fully condemn the shooter and to refuse to use his actions to promote any outstanding agenda reveals someone just terribly misguided without any moral compass.
This is just to say that if rising heathcare premiums and increased healthcare denials lead to more murders, we don't need reduced premiums and higher claims approvals. We need more police and more jail cells. Whatever you might think of jails and law enforcement, consider yourself in the tiny minority if you think first degree murderers should be granted leniency.
Obviously that was extrajudicial, but at the same time, perhaps it is good that powerful people are reminded every once in a while that there a limits to how far one can push innocent people.
You're arguing that this instance of first degree murder was perhaps good?
You're arguing that this instance of first degree murder was perhaps good?
Yes, thats exactly what were saying. If thats too much for your delicate sensibilities and black-and-white moral compass, so be it.
As adults, however, its worth looking at the reasons why people do things. Even things we wouldnt do and dont agree with. Whether its the decisions of a leader of a business that is directly/indirectly responsible for thousands of deaths, or a man who is more directly responsible for one death. Whether its Hamas terrorists or Israeli terrorists. Or United States terrorists.
Or we can be children and only do so when its our side doing the killing. Then, suddenly, the killing is more nuanced and done with the best of intentions.
We should all be hoping that this mans death leads to something as good as a radical change in the US healthcare system this way his demise wouldnt be in vain. Or maybe even better gun control laws.
As for Brian Thompson the man who knows? Probably was a nice guy. May have even disagreed with the BS system we have in place, but was hamstrung by it. His murder is in many ways a result of the corrupt, morally vacuous system he was a leader in.
If you assume theres no wrongdoing on the corporate side which is obvious here then theres no need for nuance. Its black and white: a business dude was murdered. Unacceptable.
Denying people medical coverage to further line your pocket just fine. Why? Because its indirect. Or done with good intentions or something.
L'éléphantDecember 12, 2024 at 05:52#9531580 likes
I'm just glad he was caught with no further incident.
Thank the people at the fast food for reporting to the authority.
The shooter spiraled down to nonsense due to the social media, ended up writing a manifesto.
That anyone has any hesitation to fully condemn the shooter and to refuse to use his actions to promote any outstanding agenda reveals someone just terribly misguided without any moral compass.
Trump is the president elect. A wonderful magnetic pole for the calibration of our moral compasses.
Comments (28)
That is prima facie contradictory. "This crime deserves a maximum sentence, and also we shouldn't lose any sleep over crimes like this."
I don't lose sleep over events like this. But that's sarcasm to say it.
In fact, the shooter and his supporters do not understand what causes the health care to skyrocket in price in the US. The insurance companies are not to blame for the high costs, and they're not to blame for denying this or that procedures. Tests, latest technology, astronomical hospitalization, all these contribute to the high costs of health care. And the general public do not bother to look at the charges that hospitals send to the insurance companies.
Let his actions be in vain, for nothing, just so he can die anonymously alone 50+ years later.
Whatever conversation needs to be had about whatever is going on in the world can arise as it would have anyway.
I don't lost sleep over the death of someone so distant, but I don't subtract sympathy based upon Brian Thompson's occupation or standing. That the shooter was also of privilege also doesn't subtract any sympathy by me. My lack of sympathy for the shooter is based upon him being a shooter.
What does infuriate me is any suggestion Brian Thompson deserved the death penalty from a deranged street murderer any more than other random person walking about.
Senator Fetterman said it well:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fetterman-blasts-liberal-magazine-calling-210015478.html
Now someone came along and destroyed his.
It's obviously not justice. It's what happens to people who play dangerous games.
The problem with US healthcare is that insurance is unaffordable for many, not that the claims process for those insured is more burdensome than would exist in a nationalized healthcare system. It's not like nations with national free healthcare approve every procedure and efficiently provide service.
In fact, the reason the US has rejected public healthcare is due to fears of not being able to choose one's own doctors and having their healhcare decisions made by beurocrats.
Like I said, I don't know the details of this case. If the CEO was some form of paragon who did nothing to deserve such a grizzly end, then it's a shame.
Somehow I doubt that, though.
If one sets up an enterprise that's meant to ensure people's health, and one does a shitty job at it, one is destroying lives, and then someone might come along and destroy yours in revenge.
That's karma.
While there's plenty we could do better in the Netherlands, describing it as awful is a gross exaggeration. Healthcare outcomes are still superior to 95% of other countries.
You know the underlying psychological process is that people want to distance themselves form the victim due to fear of becoming a victim themselves. So they would never be a victim because:
1. they'd be nice and accept insurance claims
2. would not walk around at that time at that place
3. would not walk around alone
4. would pack a gun and shoot him first
etc.
It indeed says a lot about people blaming the victim and that's that they are fundamentally scared.
Psychologizing is easy, and so is projecting.
They have not done so. They havent been given the option.
Anyway, fuck this guy. Im not in favor of murdering people you dont like, but people are murdered every day its only when its a rich dude that theres a national manhunt. Thats whats irritating.
The issue isnt with the CEO, its with the corrupt, immoral, profit-over-people system that leads to his existence.
The issue is that there was a murder.
The healthcaee crisis is a non-sequiter to that.
The murderer did not address the issue, clarify the issue, or make the world in any way a better place.
Obviously that was extrajudicial, but at the same time, perhaps it is good that powerful people are reminded every once in a while that there a limits to how far one can push innocent people.
Admittedly, this is assuming the CEO was a crook. Maybe he wasn't, and this killer was just some deranged person. But that wouldn't make for an interesting philosophical discussion.
Health execs reckon with patient outrage after UnitedHealthcare killing
Actually, Im not sure about that. That sounds good its what you hear all the time by guys like Josh Shapiro. Its conventional and comforting. But theres been a LOT of talk about the healthcare system this past week, and particularly the jubilant/indifferent response in many circles.
Whether that spotlight ends up making the world better, who knows. Imagine if it led to even something like a public option that would be better indeed.
Considering someone is immoral enough to kill someone else for only having allegedly denied a valid insurance claim, it is entirely possible that someone else will exercise the poor judgment to modify his claims processing based upon fear of murder. That is, sure, someone might make a bad decision. It happens all the time.
To the actual possibility that claims handling will be impacted by some murdering thug, that's pretty doubtful. The driver of corporations is profits and if claims payments are going to be increased, premiums will as well. What you make is the case for stricter police enforcement and greater protection of corporate decision makers if you actually believe decisions are now going to be made literally at gunpoint.
This idea of villifying corporations to the extent you actually believe the murder of their leaders is understandable and should give pause to reconsideration of current policy is a considerable part of the reason the left saw the election results they did. You can't expect to hold any moral high ground if you're going to insinuate that murder is an acceptable response to a health insurance denial and then somehow condemn the relative child's play of infractions committed by those across the political aisle.
That anyone has any hesitation to fully condemn the shooter and to refuse to use his actions to promote any outstanding agenda reveals someone just terribly misguided without any moral compass.
This is just to say that if rising heathcare premiums and increased healthcare denials lead to more murders, we don't need reduced premiums and higher claims approvals. We need more police and more jail cells. Whatever you might think of jails and law enforcement, consider yourself in the tiny minority if you think first degree murderers should be granted leniency.
You're arguing that this instance of first degree murder was perhaps good?
Yes, thats exactly what were saying. If thats too much for your delicate sensibilities and black-and-white moral compass, so be it.
As adults, however, its worth looking at the reasons why people do things. Even things we wouldnt do and dont agree with. Whether its the decisions of a leader of a business that is directly/indirectly responsible for thousands of deaths, or a man who is more directly responsible for one death. Whether its Hamas terrorists or Israeli terrorists. Or United States terrorists.
Or we can be children and only do so when its our side doing the killing. Then, suddenly, the killing is more nuanced and done with the best of intentions.
No thanks.
Then it is.
Cool. Hope you grow up eventually.
As for Brian Thompson the man who knows? Probably was a nice guy. May have even disagreed with the BS system we have in place, but was hamstrung by it. His murder is in many ways a result of the corrupt, morally vacuous system he was a leader in.
Well, capital G 'Good' is a big word. Probably not that. It's not an example I would seek to emulate, or want others to emulate.
But when people play stupid games they win stupid prizes. Both people involved seemed to have won their stupid prize.
Maybe they can both serve as an example.
If you assume theres no wrongdoing on the corporate side which is obvious here then theres no need for nuance. Its black and white: a business dude was murdered. Unacceptable.
Denying people medical coverage to further line your pocket just fine. Why? Because its indirect. Or done with good intentions or something.
Thank the people at the fast food for reporting to the authority.
The shooter spiraled down to nonsense due to the social media, ended up writing a manifesto.
Trump is the president elect. A wonderful magnetic pole for the calibration of our moral compasses.
[sup] The Onion · Mar 5, 2018[/sup]