Dispatch UK-028: A Report on the Case of Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov by Jamal

Noble Dust December 16, 2024 at 17:38 600 views 57 comments
  • FOR THE ATTENTION OF THE HOLY CUSTODIAN
  • SECOND CYCLE
  • ON THE FEAST OF THE PROCESSION OF THE PRECIOUS WOOD OF THE LIFE-GIVING CROSS (AUGUST 1st)
  • IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 1999


Further to our reports concerning the disappearances of Russian nationals in Glasgow, Scotland, we present here a supporting narrative based on our own supervisory oversight, specifically regarding the case of Ivanov. We ask that any prideful exercise of poetic license be met with the esteemed Custodian’s gracious understanding.

We shall interpolate the relevant excerpts from the transcript of conversations between the two Observers assigned to the case, Hieromonk Theophanes and Novice Makarios. This is not only for context but also to shine a light on the operation’s failures, and more generally on the privation of monastic commitment and decorum in the earthly Brotherhoods of Holy Orthodoxy.

§

BROTHER OBSERVER MAKARIOS: Where is Father Yuri? I thought he was meeting Ivanov and taking him to the church?

FATHER OBSERVER THEOPHANES: Please be quiet, Brother. I’m seeing a disturbance, and our Ivanov is heading straight for it.

MAKARIOS: I can’t see anything.

THEOPHANES: What a surprise.

MAKARIOS: I just think I’d be able to do a better job if I knew what was going on. Did you send that bulletin yesterday?

THEOPHANES: Your dedication is an inspiration to us all, Brother.

MAKARIOS: Respectfully Father, what I am wanting is a straight answer.

THEOPHANES: Oh, you are wanting all right. Wanting in patience, for one thing.

MAKARIOS: You don’t have to put up with me, Father. I’m happy to ask for reassignment. I want very much to get on with the job.

THEOPHANES: Again, you want. Want want want want want.

MAKARIOS: Respectfully Father, I wonder if you are quite secure in your understanding of the concept of mentorship. From whom can I learn but you?

THEOPHANES: Permit me to suggest a mutually beneficial arrangement. I shall impart to you with good grace the secrets of the Brotherhood, and in return you shall: one, endeavour to conceal your overactive talent for irksomeness; and two, adorn your endless Respectfully Fathers with some actual respect.

MAKARIOS: You are a paragon of fairness, Father.

THEOPHANES: Now, kindly keep your eyes to your Sightglass and allow me to do likewise.

§

And here he is: Ivanov, wandering in quiet business district streets. It is getting close to the close of the twentieth century. It is mostly empty buildings and empty corner cafés, all closed, because it is Sunday in the business district. It has been hot and dry for many days, and the as-yet unswept and unhosed working week’s dust rises and falls with the tabloid pages and bus tickets in the street-funnelled breezes, golden where caught in chinks of sunlight admitted by gaps up high.

But look: an anomalous shop, anomalously open for business, its door wide open to the street. A skateshop, selling skateboards, parts, accessories and apparel—a natural configuration. A shop, then, which is anomalous in context but is in itself coherent, thus resting within the order appointed by Christ Himself.

And listen: they are playing aggressive rock music, which echoes off the street’s high walls of glass and polished cladding, the sound waves unscattered by traffic and unsoftened by pedestrians. Ivanov, buffeted by them, his memory in turn nudged awake by this buffeting, now remembers the scrap of paper in his shorts pocket, and is no longer wandering. With singular purpose, he enters.

Meet the two men within: Crawford and Murdoch. To the rhythm of the music, young Crawford is sawing through a short plank of timber clamped to the counter. Murdoch, a moderately older man on the staff side of the counter, is watching Crawford and smiling.

Now look closer: What neither Ivanov nor our Observers have seen is that there is also a young woman in the shop. Dressed unseasonably in a camel coat several sizes too big for her slight frame, she stares out from behind a display, as alert and furtive as a weasel.

Interrupted by the appearance of a stranger, Murdoch turns off the music and Crawford stops sawing. They watch Ivanov as he walks up to the counter.

“Lost?” says Murdoch.

“Good day. You are very perceptive.”

“Well, my foreign friend, you’re no skater, that’s for sure.”

“Yes, I am hoping you can help me. I would like to know where is this address. It is a church of the Orthodox faith. I know it is near the Russian Consulate, but I do not know where that is.”

He shows the scrap of paper to Murdoch, who reads it and shakes his head and then passes it to Crawford, who reads it and nods.

“It’s hard to get to.”

“Perhaps you can write the directions for me.”

“Nah, I’d have to show you. I’m going that way in a minute, but I’ll be on my board, otherwise you could tag along.”

“I can run.”

“In flip-flops? I don’t think so.”

Murdoch says hold on, goes to another room, and returns with an old skateboard.

“You can borrow this. The deck’s seen better days, but the rest is solid.”

“Oh, are you sure?”

“Skater or not, I know an honest man when I see one.” He turns the board over. “Look, it’s got low trucks so it’s nice and stable.”

“That is ideal, as I am a novice.”

“You want a helmet? Pads?”

“No, I will take the risks.”

“Have it back by five thirty,” Murdoch says, and then adds, “Shred it bro!” He laughs and looks to Crawford for approval.

Crawford laughs too, then gathers up the plank of wood, the saw, and the clamp, puts them in his backpack, and grabs his board.

Out on the street, they mount the boards and head West.

§

MAKARIOS: How do I—

THEOPHANES: He’s moving faster now, so you have to continuously refocus. That’s it. Contrary to expectations, you are making progress.

MAKARIOS: Entirely owing to your solicitous guidance, Father.

THEOPHANES: Now watch. The zone of disturbance hasn’t followed them, which means this skateboard fellow is likely harmless.

MAKARIOS: Must have been the guy in the shop. Better send a bulletin.

THEOPHANES: Not so fast, my tender-footed colt. Consider, first, that spiritual disturbances emanate from places and things as much as from people, also that there might have been people in the back rooms of the shop, and that there are dozens of floors above the shop, containing who knows how many people.

MAKARIOS: It’s just empty offices.

THEOPHANES: It is worse than merely impertinent for a servant of the Lord to lay claim to omniscience. It is just empty offices as far as you know, which is not very far. The Sightglass is limited, and certainty is always elusive. Ivanov is by no means out of the woods yet.

§

The surface is smooth, but Ivanov has never been on a skateboard and struggles to keep up and stay on. He is going as fast as he can, but Crawford is now far ahead.

The business district comes to an end at the edge of a wide urbanized ravine. The ground drops away and the road curves down on stilts into the sprawling highway interchange that occupies the depths below, but Ivanov follows his guide in the direction of Heaven—for Crawford has just reached the high crest of a parabolic footbridge, which traverses the great gap on slender piers. Crawford stops for a moment to look back at Ivanov, then carries on, disappearing over the bridge’s horizon.

Ivanov in this period of his soul’s jeopardy often suffers from both vertigo and sensory overload. On the bridge, a sublimely terrifying view begins to open up around and below. It is as if he is flying, pushing up through the air, further and further from the security of the ground. To take his mind off the vast openness he fixes his eyes on the rising bridge deck ahead, and keeps on pushing.

When he gets to the top he dismounts to rest. The breeze up here is refreshing, and the view is magnificent. The entire Western half of the city is spread out before him: the lush greens of the park and the botanic gardens, the university and its salubrious environs, and the sandstone villas receding into haze. But it is too much for Ivanov. Even with the support of the handrail, which he grips desperately, he is now even more unstable on his feet than he was on the board. To steady himself he focuses on the end of the bridge, and sees Crawford waiting on the sidewalk only half a block beyond, waving to him. He remounts and begins the descent.

Worse than the feeling of flying, the feeling now is more like falling, a growing loss of control as he picks up speed. But, as if his body is acting autonomously to overcome his mental weaknesses, he suddenly snaps into a flow state and coasts down the gentle slope in an effortless sinusoidal sweep. It feels good. He wonders if he has just now become an expert skateboarder—and if, despite the shaky start, he has always been a natural, just waiting to be discovered. But as the concrete bollards at the end of the bridge loom, he regains a sense of how fast he is going, and in his resurgent fear he cuts his losses and jumps off the board to avoid crashing.

It was probably a good decision, but he has landed painfully on his knees on the bare concrete. Eager to reach solid ground, he gets up quickly, collects the skateboard, and continues on foot.

Crawford is grinning when Ivanov reaches him.

“Looks like you had a rough ride!”

“It is nothing. Is the church near this place?”

“Down the alley there, through the tunnel to the courtyard, then there’s a wee passageway on the right, leading to another courtyard. That’s where the church is. Last summer I had a job selling stuff door-to-door, used to come around here sometimes. Only good thing about it was finding all the hidden places.”

“I appreciate your help.”

“I know that girl, by the way.”

“Which girl?”

“The one in the shop.”

“I did not see anyone.”

“She was staring at you the whole time. She gives me the creeps. Sounds weird but I think she’s living across the road there, in the library.”

“Well, I must visit the church now.”

“Say hi to Jesus for me.”

“Thank you again.”

Crawford mounts his board and continues West. As he skates away he laughs, and shouts, “Shred it bro!”

Ivanov walks down the alley. Lying on the cobbles at the entrance to the tunnel is a broken wooden box with small Orthodox icons spilling out of it. One of them catches his eye, a cheap reproduction of Our Lady of Kazan, depicting the Mother of God with the infant Christ as a tiny man. He bends down to pick it up.

“Don’t touch that! It’s dirty.”

A woman’s voice from the street behind him. He stands up straight and looks around. She is small, with black hair, a face devoid of colour save for full red lips, and an ill-fitting coat.

“Please come back to the street,” she says.

“I do not understand.”

“I saw you in the shop and have something to say to you. There is nothing down there. You can have no business there.”

“But there is a church here, no?”

“No, there is nothing. Come out of the alley and back to the street.”

“I am sorry, but I must try to find this place.”

“Then just let me talk to you for a minute. Please

As he returns to the street she stands there biting her fingernails, her eyes fixed on him.

§

THEOPHANES: It’s her.

MAKARIOS: Are you sure?

THEOPHANES: She’s at the centre of a large disturbance.

MAKARIOS: She does look weird, I have to admit. Well, since Father Yuri hasn’t turned up, couldn’t we get a message to the priest at the church?

THEOPHANES: Father Alexei is not an Intercessor, Brother. You know the rules. Anyway, he’s busy tending his flock, small though it is. We must trust in Father Yuri’s plan, whatever it is.

MAKARIOS: We don’t even know if he has one. Can’t you request a direct intervention?

THEOPHANES: And by direct you mean...

MAKARIOS: Yes.

THEOPHANES: Your naivety is almost endearing. These days, we and the Intercessors together constitute the standard manifestation of angelic intervention. Only once in a hundred years do they take things into their own hands.

MAKARIOS: I have a bad feeling about this, Father.

§

“Your knee is bleeding,” the woman says.

“Oh. Yes, I fell from the skateboard.”

“It has to be cleaned. Come over to the library with me and I will do it for you.”

“I am not certain it is a good idea.”

“You will have an infection. Come. It won’t take long.”

She takes hold of his arm and leads him across the road, then past the steps that sweep down from the library’s colonnaded portico, stained by black algae and a hundred years of soot. She drags him down a flight of smaller, meaner steps descending to basement level, and then along a mossy sunken passage to the corner of the edifice. Hidden under the foliage and loaded branches of a crab apple tree is a neglected door, where she releases him and rummages for the key in the pocket of her coat.

Inside, it is as cold as a cave, and the air is rancid. Something scuttles to a nook. He follows her along the corridor and into a small room, where light from a frosted window in the adjoining toilet room dimly illuminates a folding bed in a mouldy corner, and piles of clothes and books on the floor.

“You live here? Why?”

“Other parts of the library have cameras now, and nobody comes down here.”

“But why do you live in a library?”

“Why not? I’m a librarian.” She nods in the direction of an orange plastic stackable chair. “Sit down there and I will get something for your knee.”

He does as he is told.

As she heads for the door, Ivanov says, “You sound Russian. Vy russkiy? Ukrainets?”

She turns and stares at him. Her white face, with crimson lips and bloodshot eyes, seems to float in the air, unnaturally bright in the murk.

“Just wait there.”

She goes out and closes the door. Now that Ivanov has been left alone with his thoughts, we shall take a moment to examine his soul. That is what this is all about, after all.

He looks down at his bare arm, where she held him. He does not know if he can really still feel the physical traces (a burning cold and a persistent deformation of the flesh) or if the mental impression left by her touch is so strong that he merely imagines he can—or if there is any difference. He thinks about the last time he felt a woman’s touch. He was back home, sitting on a beach on the Samara Bend after a swim, when Katya came up behind him, put a hand on his wet shoulder, and gave him an enormous wedge of watermelon.

And the sand between his toes. And in the evening, Katya’s look of concentration as she balmed his sunburnt ears with beeswax.

§

MAKARIOS: Father, I’m having trouble seeing inside.

THEOPHANES: On this occasion, it is not just you. She has performed an enchantment on the building to hide it from the eyes of God, which in this case means us.

MAKARIOS: Magic spells? That stuff is real?

THEOPHANES: Of course. Any tradition surviving for millennia contains some genuine wisdom.

MAKARIOS: Then I fear we have lost him. Lord grant rest to his soul.

THEOPHANES: Again, you judge too quickly.

MAKARIOS: He is in her lair. It’s hopeless.

THEOPHANES: I also fear the worst, Brother, but still, I’d like to see with my own eyes, wouldn’t you?

MAKARIOS: See what, his body? Don’t they eat it?

THEOPHANES: Usually just the blood, and sometimes the heart if they’re hungry. But no, I mean we need confirmation from his absence where we’d expect his presence were he alive.

MAKARIOS: What?

THEOPHANES: If he fails to reappear outside the building in the next hour or two, we can conclude with some justification that he has lost his life, and that we may have lost another soul. But let us pray for him, Brother.

MAKARIOS: Pray for what, though? Not only his life, but his soul’s protection, yes? And since you already said that direct intervention is out, it’s up to us!

THEOPHANES: Brother, please remember your title. We are the Observers. We have observed, and we have set down our observations and transmitted them in our bulletins, thus discharging our duty. It is up to the Intercessors now. This, Brother, is the division of labour ordained by the Lord.

MAKARIOS: Right now, I find I am questioning whether we have correctly interpreted His plan.

THEOPHANES: Right now, I find I am needing a drink. There’s nothing to see at the moment. Care for one?

MAKARIOS: Go on then, you’ve twisted my arm.

§

Ivanov hears her approaching. The door opens a fraction, and then there is silence. She is watching him from the corridor, holding her breath. It might be a matter of only a few seconds, but time has become distended, an abyssal dream of temporality.

She enters. But it is not her, not exactly. Her eyes have become milky globes, saccading in pus. In place of her red-lipped mouth there is a gaping orifice, where the tongue writhes in a sheath of slime behind pointed teeth. Her bitten-down nails are now bony hooks. Ludicrously, she is still wearing the coat, now spotted with fresh suppurations.

I love you.

It is her voice in his head, a relict utterance from an age before language.

She—it—charges.

As if he is a spectator, Ivanov finds he is using the skateboard as a shield against the claws. He deflects the first swipe, springs to his feet and pushes the creature back with full force. It falls into a mound of clothes and squirms to right itself, knocking over a pile of books. While it is vulnerable, he swings the skateboard up and back, but before he can bring it down on its head it pounces with an unhinged swiftness. It is going for his exposed chest, its fangs and claws poised to penetrate him, tear him open, and rip out his heart.

But then its body begins to jerk incomprehensibly. It is being beaten. Ivanov thinks he might be doing it himself without being aware of it.

“Gimme some help!”

The voice of a fellow human being, it snaps him out of his detachment. And there is Crawford, smashing the thing with his skateboard. His strikes are wild, not all of them effective, and the creature is fighting back, flailing and lunging. Ivanov joins Crawford in the assault, swinging down the edge of his skateboard’s wooden deck, hacking at the grasping talons.

Most of its body is protected by the overcoat, which functions as cushioning armour, so in an effort to do some serious damage, they begin to batter its head and face. It screams and retreats, and they advance and attack harder, forcing it against the wall. The rhythm of their alternating blows builds to a frenzy. Even while they continue to break and mutilate, the two men look at each other and grin, intoxicated with the camaraderie of violence.

It sinks to the floor.

I love you, the primeval voice sounds in his head. He drops the skateboard and picks up the plastic chair, then drives one of the metal legs down into its skull. We shall not make the mistake of saying that it dies in this moment, but whatever power was animating the lifeless clay has gone, leaving a motionless rotting carcass.

A long time goes by before they have recovered enough to speak.

“What the fuck is it?” Crawford says.

“The girl. I think she is an Upyr.”

“Oo-peer.”

“Like a vampire, but they drink only Slavic blood. At least, the legend says so. My grandmother told me the stories.”

“So what now?”

“We must cut off the head.”

“Jesus.”

“If we do not, it can awaken again. Or the spirit could leave this body and enter another.”

The cadaver has begun to move, contracting into a foetal position in a series of spasms—an accelerated rigor mortis. An incidental fact, which the men will at no point become aware of, is that there is a more subtle kind of movement too: a certain agitation, softly undulating the coat where it covers the torso.

Crawford opens his backpack and takes out the saw.

“Here, use this.”

Ivanov finds the beheading more physically demanding than he expects. Crawford, more skilled with the saw, has to take over before Ivanov has even reached the vertebrae. But Crawford himself struggles with the task, the saw being ill-suited for cutting through cartilage, bone, and rapidly stiffening muscle.

When it is done, they go to the sink to wash off the blood, gristle, and splinters of bone that stick to their hands. Then Ivanov covers the corpse, the head, and the saw (which Crawford has decided not to keep) with the blanket from the folding bed.

“I must go to the church now,” Ivanov says. “Perhaps the priest will know what to do.”

“I’ll come with you.”



As they walk down the alley to the tunnel, Ivanov asks, “Why did you return?”

“I looked around and saw you with her. Something didn’t seem right, I dunno. Then I remembered those missing Russians and came back to check you were okay.”

Later, having parted with Father Alexei and Crawford, Ivanov mounts his battered, bloody skateboard—which, being of good quality, is still running smoothly—and heads back to the skateshop, riding now with confidence and grace. There is plenty of time to get to the shop before five thirty, so when he reaches the top of the bridge he stops for a while to enjoy the view.

§

THEOPHANES: One of us should be watching.

MAKARIOS: Don’t worry old man, have another drink!

THEOPHANES: Brother, you forget yourself. You are drunk.

MAKARIOS: No more than you are, Father. The whole thing’s over anyway. The vampire bitch made a banquet of his body, gobbled down his heart and had his balls for dessert!

THEOPHANES: Enough of that. Even if you are essentially right, as seems likely, Ivanov’s passing is not an occasion for gleeful vulgarity. And keep your voice down. I’m the one who will get in trouble with the Igumen. By the way, don’t call it a vampire. An Upyr isn’t quite the same thing.

MAKARIOS: Oh here we go. Theo ... Theopopadopoulos the Sage, regale us with your pagan lore!

THEOPHANES: You should already know the lore yourself. Tell me, my ardent pupil: what are the differences between the Central European vampire and the Eastern Upyr?

MAKARIOS: Is this an exam?

THEOPHANES: No no, entirely informal. Now let’s hear it.

MAKARIOS:

THEOPHANES: Brother?

MAKARIOS: I don’t feel well, Father. I shall go to my repose, with God’s blessing.

THEOPHANES: Well and good. Oh and don’t bother with Vespers or Midnight Office. I’ll tell them you’re ill. Go with God, Brother—but pass me that bottle first.

§

Ivanov has chosen a window seat on the right side of the plane so he can see the Zhiguli mountains during the descent to Samara. But they are no more than hills to him now. Maybe Timur was right. Timur used to annoy everyone in geography class, including the teacher, by insisting that they were not mountains at all, that if they wanted to see mountains they ought to go to the Altai and the Tian Shan. Timur had not been to those places but his father had. Ivanov has now been to those places—and to the Caucasus, the Alps, the Andes and the Rockies—and sees that Timur had a point.

At the airport he calls Katya to say he has landed and will see her in an hour. He tells her to open a window and hang some garlic around the door. She laughs and says he is crazy, but he insists.


FOLLOW-UP ON KEY INDIVIDUALS

We received a bulletin from Father Theophanes late on the day in question, claiming that Ivanov had been killed by the Upyr. Obviously, this was a supposition made without observational support. It hardly needs to be said that this, among many other things, represents a serious dereliction of duty. Father Theophanes has now retired from Observational obediences and Brother Makarios is presently undergoing re-training.

Father Intercessor Yuri, who we later discovered was making an unauthorized pilgrimage to Cyprus during the events discussed, is no longer working as a field operative.

Donald Crawford, though not a member of the community of the faithful, nor even of Slavic heritage, is presently lending his assistance in the role of lay guardian.

As for Ivanov himself, we give praise that his soul was safeguarded on this occasion, and although we shall not take liberties with our role by attempting a full prophecy, all indications are that the couple will go on to be happy and fruitful in a log cabin surrounded on three sides by birch and pine, with Our Lady of Kazan placed over the cradle of their child and a view across the river to the Zhiguli mountains, if they are indeed mountains.


CONCLUSION

We regret that we cannot end on that happy note. This is not a time for complacency. Owing to our swift action on receiving the news from Father Alexei, proper disposal of the Upyr was effected promptly—however, the operation is ongoing. A clean-up team combining Intercessors, Sanctifiers, and lay guardians is taking the work to completion in accordance with the latest supplement to the Manuals of Ritual (see appendix). It is expected that new evidence will conclusively establish that the missing Russian nationals were victims of the Upyr; recovering their remains is the current priority. The possibility that these victims have themselves become Upyrs cannot be ruled out.

Taking a wider view, it is clear that there is much work ahead. The defeat of Soviet atheism has been a mixed blessing. Foreign travel from the countries formerly under its yoke has grown and will continue to do so, with the result that East Slavs will increasingly be exposed, without the syncretic protections operative in their homeland, to those of the enemy’s Slavic minions who remain in exile. And even in the Slavic lands themselves, there are signs of a growth in demonic activity.

Of course, we continue to be confident in the vitality of the faithful and the locally excellent track record of folkloric protection against malefic influence (and critics say we are intolerant of paganism!) But this cannot be a blind confidence. In general and as always, we must remain vigilant lest the children of Holy Rus go the way of their heterodox—or, let us speak plainly, ungodly and profane—Western cousins.

There are matters demanding more immediate action. The shocking series of failures and improprieties apparent in our earthly institutions must be addressed. We recommend a root cause analysis following discussion at the forthcoming Assembly.

By the grace of Heaven, may this report serve in the ongoing protection of the faithful, entrusted to Your vigilance.

In Service and Humility,
Ithuriel, Senior Overseer, Observation and Intervention (UK)


APPENDIX: Proper Destruction and Disposal of an Upyr

Folklore being what it is, there are various myths surrounding this topic. We have established the correct procedure, and we include it here for convenience; it can also be found in the Manuals of Ritual.

Once the creature has been incapacitated by the ordinary methods, the following points must be observed. Note that proper disposal is mandatory, since destruction by itself is not permanent.

Options for destruction:

  1. Decapitation.
  2. Wooden stake through the heart. Contrary to the legends, the type of wood is unimportant: any sturdy pointed wooden shaft will do.
  3. Drowning.*


*WARNING: USE DROWNING ONLY IF THE CORPSE CAN BE RETRIEVED FOR DISPOSAL

Options for disposal, to be performed without delay:

  1. Bury the corpse securely nailed down in a coffin, applying holy water inside and out. For instances of decapitation, first place the head between the legs, facing down.
  2. Burn the corpse (including the head) and bury the ashes in an unmarked pit.

Comments (57)

Noble Dust December 17, 2024 at 17:00 #954139
I really liked this story. The writing is excellent, and I had no problem getting absorbed into the scenes, which isn't something I can say for every story this year. I don't actually enjoy reading fiction on a screen that much to begin with (lol!), so any story with writing vivid enough to make me forget I'm reading on a screen gets high marks from me. I need to re-read this in order to go into more detail. I recall having a few critiques and things I would have done differently. But it was excellent; the freaky Upyr, her attack and subsequent death were all sufficiently nasty without being gratuitous.
Jack Cummins December 19, 2024 at 08:25 #954548
Reply to Noble Dust
I agree that the story was well-written, as to keep me going when it I struggle with reading a story of such length on a screen.The sectioning of it helped and the combination of different forms of presentation. The newspaper reporting style was also a good starting point for a story with a great post-apocalyptic feel.
Christoffer December 19, 2024 at 14:39 #954592
This was fun. Transforming God and the heavens into an almost Sovietian style of bureaucratic agency in which we read a report by sloppy low level half-drunk observers, was a really humorous take on the common church vs vampire (Upyr) tropes from an unexpected angle.

Like Kafka meets Terry Pratchett meets Salem's Lot meets Hitchhiker's Guide meets Monthy Python.

Really enjoyed it and the writing, especially since it's done in a specific form of "report", flows really well.

Laughed at these types of passages.
and although we shall not take liberties with our role by attempting a full prophecy, all indications are that the couple will go on to be happy and fruitful


Good job!
Vera Mont December 19, 2024 at 14:41 #954593
i enjoyed this story. it's a different and interesting perspective on vampires, as well as truly old-time religion. the conversation of the two angels was gently humorous and i appreciate the way in which their relationship developed. i also like the shifting between transcript and the narrator directly addressing the reader.
all of it is lucid and well articulated, but some gems of expression stood out for me :
the as-yet unswept and unhosed working week’s dust rises and falls with the tabloid pages and bus tickets in the street-funnelled breezes,

the sound waves unscattered by traffic and unsoftened by pedestrians

an abyssal dream of temporality

intoxicated with the camaraderie of violence.

now i have to go visit glasgow via google earth.

hypericin December 20, 2024 at 21:52 #954879
A skateboarding priest fighting a Slavic vampire in 90s Glasgow? SIGN ME THE FUCK UP! This is what I want to be reading! The prose was fluid and smooth, even though it was a longer piece it sailed right along. Fun, enjoyable. I loved the descriptions of the cityscape, it felt vibrant and mysterious. The author gave just enough cues to allow the reader to paint it in their head, without overdetermining. And the layered POV: Observers observing observers observing the action. I liked the two observing priests, their sometimes stilted, ironical banter had a humorous, almost Vancian flavor sometimes. What affected me most was:

Quoting Noble Dust
I love you.


I believe this is not a ploy, this is how the Upyr feels. She was watching the priest, biting her fingernails, infatuated. What does she do immediately before? Tends his wounds, taking care of the man she wants to be hers. The story plays on the intersection of horror, need, and eroticism that pervades the vampire mythos, that makes it a metaphor for the dark side of love and lust. The author's take is unusually blunt, and potent.

If I have a criticism, I think the Conclusion and Appendix were too much. The let the narrative steam slowly deflate, instead of ending the story on a high note. I would either severely truncate or eliminate. Just a quibble, however, to a piece I give: :up: :up:, Way Up!!!
Vera Mont December 20, 2024 at 22:54 #954890
yes, the love angle. when and how does desire to be with morph into desire to possess and then desire to consume? she saw him in the store and wanted him - just him, ignoring the other two men. because he's russian?
there is something in folklore that captures the colour and mood of its culture as nothing else does, except perhaps music - which may have been the significance of the rock music.
the relationship of the two young men was also intriguing.
fdrake December 21, 2024 at 17:13 #954990
I don't have any useful criticism to give, other than that I enjoyed it. If someone told me it was an excerpt from a Vladimir Sorokin book, I think I would've believed it. The upyr felt very much like some of the jokes in Day of the Oprichinik. High praise!
Amity December 21, 2024 at 19:08 #955006
I don't think I can add anything to the feedback already given.
It was an excellent read. I loved everything about it. Initially, the length put me off but I shouldn't have worried. The author kept up a wonderful pace, easy to go with the flow, and I didn't fall off the skateboard and my knees and ears aren't bleeding. Excellent humour, horror and pathos.
Some pieces:

Love the fab alliteration:
Quoting Noble Dust
But, as if his body is acting autonomously to overcome his mental weaknesses, he suddenly snaps into a flow state and coasts down the gentle slope in an effortless sinusoidal sweep. It feels good.


Sinuses are still good to go. Even with the flashback to trigonometry. The best giggle I ever had.

Brilliant description. We can see and smell the soot before we slide along the sunken moss:

Quoting Noble Dust
She takes hold of his arm and leads him across the road, then past the steps that sweep down from the library’s colonnaded portico, stained by black algae and a hundred years of soot. She drags him down a flight of smaller, meaner steps descending to basement level, and then along a mossy sunken passage to the corner of the edifice. Hidden under the foliage and loaded branches of a crab apple tree is a neglected door, where she releases him and rummages for the key in the pocket of her coat.


The author likes his sss- sweeps but widnae be one. No' in Glesgae, ony wy.

Ivanov is touched by this woman. And remembers the last time he felt a woman's touch.
We imagine something sweet and seductive. We're not wrong:

Quoting Noble Dust
He was back home, sitting on a beach on the Samara Bend after a swim, when Katya came up behind him, put a hand on his wet shoulder, and gave him an enormous wedge of watermelon.

And the sand between his toes. And in the evening, Katya’s look of concentration as she balmed his sunburnt ears with beeswax.


The author has SO been there. Sand between the toes and in the sandwiches. Yup. Fair-skinned and easily burned. The sensitive sort. Hah!

Quoting Noble Dust
She enters. But it is not her, not exactly. Her eyes have become milky globes, saccading in pus. In place of her red-lipped mouth there is a gaping orifice, where the tongue writhes in a sheath of slime behind pointed teeth. Her bitten-down nails are now bony hooks. Ludicrously, she is still wearing the coat, now spotted with fresh suppurations.


Saccading eyes, suppurations, slime and a slithering snake. Sounds suspenseful:



And an unexpected declaration:
Quoting Noble Dust
I love you.
It is her voice in his head, a relict utterance from an age before language.

She—it—charges.


Masterful. This is where I cover my eyes. :monkey:
A merciless attack follows and the girl/woman/it

Quoting Noble Dust
sinks to the floor.

I love you, the primeval voice sounds in his head. He drops the skateboard and picks up the plastic chair, then drives one of the metal legs down into its skull. We shall not make the mistake of saying that it dies in this moment, but whatever power was animating the lifeless clay has gone, leaving a motionless rotting carcass.


This is terrifyingly sad. The love. Perhaps that of a missing Russian national now turned vampire or...
Quoting Noble Dust
“The girl. I think she is an Upyr.”

“Oo-peer.”

“Like a vampire, but they drink only Slavic blood. At least, the legend says so. My grandmother told me the stories.”


I wonder if the love of the girl lessened the power of the Upyr. It seems to have been (relatively) easily beaten:

Quoting Wiki - Upiór
Upiórs drank human blood, and used their superhuman strength to tear their victims to shreds. They could also kill with their breath or shrieks. They harassed people at night, making them suffocate or sleepwalk. There were claims of husbands and wives becoming upiórs and visiting the widowed spouse after death.


***
The dialogue reminded me of the banter in Pratchett's Small Gods. Loved this:

Quoting Noble Dust
THEOPHANES: Not so fast, my tender-footed colt. Consider, first, that spiritual disturbances emanate from places and things as much as from people, also that there might have been people in the back rooms of the shop, and that there are dozens of floors above the shop, containing who knows how many people.

MAKARIOS: It’s just empty offices.

THEOPHANES: It is worse than merely impertinent for a servant of the Lord to lay claim to omniscience. It is just empty offices as far as you know, which is not very far. The Sightglass is limited, and certainty is always elusive. Ivanov is by no means out of the woods yet.


***
There is so much that could be mentioned. The decapitation. Ouch!
The feelgood folklore (almost) final...
Keeping the garlic handy.

Excellent an' a' that, Jimmy! :cool: :100:































Amity December 21, 2024 at 20:41 #955012
I meant to say. I love the colonic introductions:

Quoting Noble Dust
And here he is: Ivanov, wandering in quiet business district streets.


Quoting Noble Dust
But look: an anomalous shop, anomalously open for business, its door wide open to the street.


Quoting Noble Dust
And listen: they are playing aggressive rock music, which echoes off the street’s high walls of glass and polished cladding, the sound waves unscattered by traffic and unsoftened by pedestrians.


Quoting Noble Dust
Meet the two men within: Crawford and Murdoch.


Quoting Noble Dust
Now look closer: What neither Ivanov nor our Observers have seen is that there is also a young woman in the shop. Dressed unseasonably in a camel coat several sizes too big for her slight frame, she stares out from behind a display, as alert and furtive as a weasel.


Jack Cummins December 23, 2024 at 21:48 #955325
Reply to Amity
You point out some important details highlighted by @Noble Dust, which could be overlooked. There is so much in this short story which needs to be pondered.
Baden December 26, 2024 at 14:44 #955724
A cool, colourful, mad, romp. Very layered and visual. I'm a big fan of the bare dialogue and the cinematic visualizations and cuts.

My favourite bit is probably:

Quoting Noble Dust
Her eyes have become milky globes, saccading in pus. In place of her red-lipped mouth there is a gaping orifice, where the tongue writhes in a sheath of slime behind pointed teeth. Her bitten-down nails are now bony hooks. Ludicrously, she is still wearing the coat, now spotted with fresh suppurations.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Quoting Jack Cummins
There is so much in this short story which needs to be pondered.


Yes, I feel I'm missing a lot despite having read it twice.
Tobias December 26, 2024 at 22:43 #955789
I loved the report style and the bureaucratic wording. I think it is immaculately written. I also liked the figure of the Upyr and the 'I love you' take. The post apocalyptic feel of the city business district reminded me of the place I visited recently, the business district of Brussels North. It is decidedly seedy by the way and could well house some vampires.
There were two things though that snapped me out of the story: The fact that a Slavic priest mounts a skateboard at all. It made it indeed a bit Monty Pythonesque and I must confess I get annoyed when stories are serious but include a humoristic element. It detracted me from the atmosphere of alienation of the city which was in my view masterfully done.
The second was the sudden differing relationship between Theophanes and Makarios. Even when drunk a strict hierarchy does not turn into a rather boisterous sense of familiarity. Theophanes very acutely castigates Makarios for jumping to conclusions and the next thing you know he jumps to conclusions. Seemed out of character to me.
Other then those, I thought it was a great read and I read on. The reporting style worked well and if it were for a bit more consistency it would be for me a very atmospheric vampire mystery.
Vera Mont December 27, 2024 at 04:01 #955834
Quoting Tobias
The fact that a Slavic priest mounts a skateboard at all.

Why do you think Ivan is a priest? My impression was that he's an ordinary guy looking for an Orthodox church. It's Sunday, is why the business district is deserted.
Tobias December 27, 2024 at 10:28 #955853
Yeah that the business district would be closed on a Sunday I saw. That did nit trigger any reaction in me, except I found the scenery beautifully described in a post- apocalyptic kind of way. I do not know why I thought of him as a priest, but you are probably right that he is an ordinary guy. I pictured him that way I guess because he is being watched by clergymen and he is looking for the church. I pictured a somewhat older regular men, not the skater type in any case and that line was from the story. I think though you are right but I was not the only one caught on that foot: Hypericin was as wel: "A skateboarding priest fighting a Slavic vampire in 90s Glasgow? SIGN ME THE FUCK UP!"
Vera Mont December 27, 2024 at 19:55 #955939
Quoting Tobias
I pictured him that way I guess because he is being watched by clergymen and he is looking for the church.


I think the Observers are angels or something supernatural, who are supposed to report higher^^up on the movements of russian citizens being stalked by upyrs elsewhere in the world. i pictured Ivan as a young man, possibly on business in Scotland - on vacation, he would have brought his wife. doesn't know his way around and wants to attend sunday servive in his own religion.
Besides the easy rapport with the guy in the skateboard shop, here's why i think he's young: The Observers report
Quoting Noble Dust
As for Ivanov himself, we give praise that his soul was safeguarded on this occasion, and although we shall not take liberties with our role by attempting a full prophecy, all indications are that the couple will go on to be happy and fruitful in a log cabin surrounded on three sides by birch and pine, with Our Lady of Kazan placed over the cradle of their child and a view across the river to the Zhiguli mountains, if they are indeed mountains.


Tobias December 27, 2024 at 20:34 #955947
Quoting Vera Mont
I think the Observers are angels or something supernatural, who are supposed to report higher^^up on the movements of russian citizens being stalked by upyrs elsewhere in the world.


Hmm, here I think they are clergymen, their titles being 'hieromonk' and 'novice'. They are special of course, in that they belong to a branch observing demonic activity. But the catholic church also employed exorcists. They report higher up in the chain of command. Angels getting drunk makes little sense to me. They are indeed dispatched to be watchful of Upyric activity and have some equipment (perhaps magical), they can detect disturbances and also through walls I think with 'looking glasses'.

Quoting Vera Mont
i pictured Ivan as a young man, possibly on business in Scotland - on vacation, he would have brought his wife. doesn't know his way around and wants to attend sunday servive in his own religion.


I think you are right there. I now think he also just looking for the church as have some of his fellow nationals. The upyr has taken up residence in the library and lures them. I like the detail about the upyr saying "it's dirty" when Ivan picks up a paper reproduction of the Lady of Kazan. Yes, he is probably a young man. I just did not and still do not, picture him as particularly handy. He suffers from vertigo and sensory overload and he does not look like a skater. But hey, these are just prompts that triggered my imagination of him...

Vera Mont December 27, 2024 at 20:44 #955949
Reply to Tobias We should find out pretty soon, when the author comments.
Re which, have I mentioned that i usually run a mile when vampires are mentioned, but this story snuck up on me; i was caught up in the spirit of it before i knew what it was about. Really well done!
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 12:00 #956969
Thank you for the feedback everyone, I appreciate it. I'll split my responses into several posts.

Quoting Vera Mont
have I mentioned that i usually run a mile when vampires are mentioned, but this story snuck up on me; i was caught up in the spirit of it before i knew what it was about. Really well done!


It was a relief to see this comment. I absolutely did not intend to write a vampire story, it just happened.

Quoting Noble Dust
I recall having a few critiques and things I would have done differently.


:cry:

Quoting Noble Dust
But it was excellent


:blush:

Quoting Jack Cummins
There is so much in this short story which needs to be pondered.


Thanks Jack :up:

Quoting fdrake
I don't have any useful criticism to give, other than that I enjoyed it. If someone told me it was an excerpt from a Vladimir Sorokin book, I think I would've believed it. The upyr felt very much like some of the jokes in Day of the Oprichinik. High praise!


High praise indeed! At least, I assume it is: that book's been on my list for years but I still haven't got around to reading it.

Quoting Baden
A cool, colourful, mad, romp. Very layered and visual. I'm a big fan of the bare dialogue and the cinematic visualizations and cuts.


Thank you :smile:
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 12:34 #956981
Quoting Christoffer
This was fun


Quoting Christoffer
a really humorous take on the common church vs vampire (Upyr) tropes from an unexpected angle


Quoting Christoffer
flows really well


Quoting Christoffer
Like Kafka meets Terry Pratchett meets Salem's Lot meets Hitchhiker's Guide meets Monty Python.


Thanks Christoffer. I wasn’t aware that Heaven-as-bureaucracy was such a worn-out trope, until I looked into it later. I don't know if I thought I was being entirely original, but I definitely wasn't aware of things like Terry Pratchett's Good Omens, even though it was made into a TV show recently. I was a bit dismayed when I found out.
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 12:47 #956987
Quoting hypericin
SIGN ME THE FUCK UP! This is what I want to be reading! The prose was fluid and smooth, even though it was a longer piece it sailed right along. Fun, enjoyable. I loved the descriptions of the cityscape, it felt vibrant and mysterious. The author gave just enough cues to allow the reader to paint it in their head, without overdetermining. And the layered POV: Observers observing observers observing the action. I liked the two observing priests, their sometimes stilted, ironical banter had a humorous, almost Vancian flavor sometimes.


Quoting Vera Mont
some gems of expression stood out for me


These comments gave me the dopamine hit I'd been miserably craving for days after the stories went up. Much appreciated.

Quoting hypericin
I believe this is not a ploy, this is how the Upyr feels. She was watching the priest, biting her fingernails, infatuated. What does she do immediately before? Tends his wounds, taking care of the man she wants to be hers. The story plays on the intersection of horror, need, and eroticism that pervades the vampire mythos, that makes it a metaphor for the dark side of love and lust. The author's take is unusually blunt, and potent.


Quoting Vera Mont
yes, the love angle. when and how does desire to be with morph into desire to possess and then desire to consume?


I’m delighted someone picked up on this. I originally wanted to include the Upyr’s point of view, making her infatuation more explicit (and because she's much more interesting than Ivanov). The idea came out of my research: it’s mentioned somewhere that Upyrs, particularly the female ones, can get infatuated with their victims. Now I think about it, this is probably a theme in a lot of vampire fiction and lore.

One thing I hadn’t really noticed but which I now see is important (thanks to your comment @hypericin) is the significance of tending his wound. Although the wound primarily functions to intensify her thirst for his Slavic blood, it’s also an echo of Katya’s loving application of beeswax to his sunburnt ears. Which could make the confrontation with the Upyr a metaphor for a man confronting his fear of marriage, which he conquers and goes home to settle down with Katya. That could fit with what I was vaguely thinking it was about: Russia turning its back on the West.
Christoffer December 31, 2024 at 12:50 #956990
Quoting Jamal
Thanks Christoffer. I wasn’t aware that Heaven-as-bureaucracy was such a worn-out trope, until I looked into it later. I don't know if I thought I was being entirely original, but I definitely wasn't aware of things like Terry Pratchett's Good Omens, even though it was made into a TV show recently. I was a bit dismayed when I found out.


Good job with this, really enjoyable!

I don't think Good Omens is like your vision here. That combo of writers is me trying to form a kind of idea of what it reminded me of, but there's no one of them that really fit the visuals I got while reading this. It had kind of the humor of death in Discworld doing things as if they were normal work grind, and the kind of telling the story through a document like in Hitchhiker's Guide, but the sense of the heavenly characters were of a much more mundane bureaucratic nature, treating this Salem's Lot kind of fight for your life against ancient Upyrs as just a normal sign-the-papers-between-coffee-breaks ordeal, and oh, isn't it beer o'clock?

No, I think yours had enough unique tone and qualities to warrant being its own thing. I even think that compared to Good Omens, the TV-series at least, this had a bit more edge and didn't fall into some sentimental tone that the TV-series unfortunately had. I prefer this more Monty Python-esque sensibility of characters in heaven.
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 13:23 #957003
Quoting hypericin
A skateboarding priest


Quoting Tobias
The fact that a Slavic priest mounts a skateboard


Quoting Vera Mont
the conversation of the two angels


The theology and hierarchy are quite elaborate for a short story, which is maybe why the roles and relationships weren't always clear.

These comments are correct:

Quoting Tobias
Hmm, here I think they are clergymen, their titles being 'hieromonk' and 'novice'. They are special of course, in that they belong to a branch observing demonic activity. But the catholic church also employed exorcists. They report higher up in the chain of command. Angels getting drunk makes little sense to me. They are indeed dispatched to be watchful of Upyric activity and have some equipment (perhaps magical), they can detect disturbances and also through walls I think with 'looking glasses'.


Quoting Vera Mont
he's an ordinary guy looking for an Orthodox church.


In more detail...

The author of the report, Ithuriel, is a guardian angel reporting to an archangel, probably Michael (the "Holy Custodian").

A couple of levels down from Ithuriel, in the mortal human realm, Theophanes and Makarios are Russian Orthodox monks (in real life they often take Greek names when they become monks). Theophanes is a priest as well as a monk, so he's a priestmonk or hieromonk. They're members of the fictional Brotherhood of Observers, which is one of the “earthly Brotherhoods of Holy Orthodoxy” that work for the guardian angels.

Ivanov is not a priest but just a Russian everyman, hence the emblematic, extraordinarily ordinary name. He's in Glasgow, known by Heaven and the church to have become a danger zone for Russians, so they've put the earthly Brotherhoods on the case so as not to lose another soul, and to locate and destroy whatever forces of Lucifer might be lurking there. I’m not sure why he’s in Glasgow or what his profession is; he's kind of an absent centre in the narrative, largely an avatar or archetype.

The background fantasy is that Heaven sees the Russian Orthodox Church as the one true church, the primary inheritor of the Christian mission; and regards the Russian people or East Slavs in general as the only remaining uncorrupted Christians.

I found it amusing and interesting to combine this with Slavophilia and Slavic essentialism, treating them as if they were true. Russian theologians used to refer to Moscow as the Third Rome, and today there's the influential movement called Eurasianism—which is entirely Russia-centric despite the name—associated with ultranationalist thinkers like Aleksandr Dugin and also embraced to some degree by the current Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kirill.

[hide=Bonus paratheological musings]There's a tension here that I find interesting: ethnic exclusivity is technically heretical in Russian Orthodox Christianity (as in other kinds of Christianity) and yet it seems to flirt with it, whether out of a need to protect itself in times of a state-promoted nationalism, or a genuine ethnic chauvinism. In the story, according to the conclusion Slavs seem to be favoured by God and the angels for historical rather than ethnic reasons, but then at the same time there's the significance of "Slavic blood". So maybe Slavs really are the chosen people.[/hide]

Quoting Vera Mont
i pictured Ivan as a young man, possibly on business in Scotland - on vacation, he would have brought his wife. doesn't know his way around and wants to attend sunday servive in his own religion.


Yes. In my mind he's in his thirties, and probably on business. However, my thinking was that Katya was not his wife during the events of the story, that their relationship was on hiatus and that he marries her and settles down only after he has returned home, as predicted in the conclusion.

The reader might wonder why he'd be wearing flip-flops and shorts on his way to Church on a Sunday, but that's a problem I chose not to try and solve.

Quoting Tobias
I like the detail about the upyr saying "it's dirty" when Ivan picks up a paper reproduction of the Lady of Kazan


Great, I'm glad that was noticed. Icons are not made of paper though, at least in my experience; I had wood or plastic in mind. They're often for sale in the shops attached to Orthodox churches.
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 13:45 #957009
Quoting hypericin
If I have a criticism, I think the Conclusion and Appendix were too much. The let the narrative steam slowly deflate, instead of ending the story on a high note. I would either severely truncate or eliminate. Just a quibble


Thanks for this, I'm taking it seriously. It's something I noticed myself, the anticlimax of having to read several paragraphs after the story's over. But I'm in two minds if I really want to change it. I quite like the appendix, so another option would be to sacrifice the verisimilitude of the "report" by removing a lot of the detail from the conclusion. It might be a matter of taste—I tend to go maximalist—but since I'm so close to it I can't be sure.
Christoffer December 31, 2024 at 13:58 #957010
Quoting Jamal
Thanks for this, I'm taking it seriously. It's something I noticed myself, the anticlimax of having to read several paragraphs after the story's over. But I'm in two minds if I really want to change it. I quite like the appendix, so another option would be to sacrifice the verisimilitude of the "report" by removing a lot of the detail from the conclusion. It might be a matter of taste—I tend to go maximalist—but since I'm so close to it I can't be sure.


I actually liked the appendix. It felt like an epilogue that can be read as a fun little end note. If this story was published in book form, there's a nice opening to do proper formatting so that it looks like a paper going around in the heaven bureaucracy. Coffee stains on it, and maybe even lost somewhere like an "oh shit, did we forget to send this info!?" Like, triggering some further thoughts on how the story continues.

In a book form playing around with the format it would be really funny. And if expanded into a long story, more such things intersected between chapters adds a lot to the humor and world building of a story like this. Just imagine such notes and then we can read handwritten commentaries on the edges of their page; "why did I find this in my trash?? Please note name, celestial date and rank next time!"

I'd say, this concept is ripe for such a fun novel if you were ever to expand it. :cheer:
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 14:02 #957012
Reply to Christoffer

Nice idea. :grin:

So the book could be the case file for the Glasgow Upyr, containing a chronological series of reports, each one about a different victim.
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 14:03 #957013
Quoting Christoffer
No, I think yours had enough unique tone and qualities to warrant being its own thing. I even think that compared to Good


Good to know :up:
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 14:09 #957015
Quoting Amity
It was an excellent read. I loved everything about it.


Thank you Amity, I appreciate that.

Quoting Amity
The author has SO been there.


Yes, a Samara Bend beach stop on a hot day in August on the Volga cruise I was on a few years ago.

Quoting Amity
I wonder if the love of the girl lessened the power of the Upyr. It seems to have been (relatively) easily beaten


Good point. I was worried that it seemed too easy to kill her. But it's not a stretch to imagine that the powers of the Upyr have been exaggerated in folklore, that in (fictional) reality they are actually not so powerful as that. But anyway, if it were not for Crawford it would've killed him without much trouble. And—is this an Easter egg?—it's possible that Ivanov did in fact pick up the icon in the alley, and that it protected him. His love of Katya: that works too.

Quoting Amity
The dialogue reminded me of the banter in Pratchett's Small Gods.


@Christoffer mentioned Pratchett too. I haven't read more than a few pages of his work and I find I'm beginning to resent him. :wink:
Christoffer December 31, 2024 at 14:17 #957016
Quoting Jamal
So the book could be the case file for the Glasgow Upyr, containing a chronological series of reports, each one about a different victim.


And to drive the bureaucratic humor even further, have more incompetent or tired "workers" in this heaven hierarchy, reports getting lost, people complaining about formatting etc.

Like, what I found the most funny was that heaven is all present and "could" intervene and help. And the contrast between this life and death struggle fight in the form of a more traditional horror story about fighting ancient Upyrs, against being witnessed from the viewpoint of slightly incompetent observers who rather drink beer than fully commit to their assignment.

As if the chaos on earth is kind of the result of a failing bureaucracy in heaven and there could even be some fun connections between the two; like a report getting lost in one chapter, which affects events happening on earth, then the report gets found later and angels blaming each other for the chaos that happened as a result.

And in the end the two worlds meet and the main character fighting Upyrs might believe to witness the glory of the mighty heavens only to be met by a tired accountant or desk clerk asking "and you had an appointment with... why are you here again?" :lol:

I think all of this would be an absolute hilarious gem of a book!
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 14:22 #957019
Reply to Christoffer

Sounds really cool. My trouble is I sometimes get bored with an idea quickly and want to move on.
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 14:27 #957022
Quoting Vera Mont
now i have to go visit glasgow via google earth.


You might be disappointed. The Glasgow of the story is the Glasgow of my mind, which is not very accurate. The highway traversed by the footbridge is in real life the M8 motorway, but it isn't really in a ravine even if that's how I think of it. The footbridge itself is a combination and exaggeration of two different ones in that rough location, which are not all that high and don't provide magnificent views. (Also, Glasgow has never had a Russian consulate.)

Quoting Vera Mont
there is something in folklore that captures the colour and mood of its culture as nothing else does, except perhaps music - which may have been the significance of the rock music.


That's interesting. Makes me think of the Soviet authorities' suspicion of rock music, so Ivanov could be standing for Russian tradition following the youth culture's embrace of outside influence in the nineties — again, a turning away from the West. And the folklore fits nicely there.

I quite like that, but I can't say the music had any intentional significance. The whole skateshop scene was based on my visit to a record shop in Glasgow in the nineties, where there was a punk rocker sawing a piece of wood in time to the music — an eccentric version of headbanging — while the staff stood around him grinning. It was in the story before it had anything to do with vampires, religion, or Russians (and then without intending to I echoed it later on in the bit where they kill the Upyr in a rhythmic frenzy).
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 14:45 #957026
Quoting Tobias
The post apocalyptic feel of the city business district


As @Vera Mont recognized, I didn't intend anything post-apocalyptic. I was describing what Glasgow's business district was like on a Sunday in the 90s and early 2000s, from my own experience.

Quoting Tobias
The second was the sudden differing relationship between Theophanes and Makarios. Even when drunk a strict hierarchy does not turn into a rather boisterous sense of familiarity. Theophanes very acutely castigates Makarios for jumping to conclusions and the next thing you know he jumps to conclusions. Seemed out of character to me.


Thanks for this. I'm not yet willing to concede the first point, about their relationship (for boring reasons I needn't go into) but your second point is astute: I was already slightly worried about the credibility of Theophanes' contradictory behaviour. My rationale is just that he's a complacent hypocrite, dropping everything he has been teaching Makarios after a few drinks, and content to do the minimum to "discharge his duty". He turns out not to be the wise and upstanding mentor that he might seem at first. I actually had in mind Cephalus from the Republic, Book 1: an outwardly conscientious and moral man who is really just a self-satisfied box-ticker.

Quoting Tobias
The fact that a Slavic priest mounts a skateboard at all. It made it indeed a bit Monty Pythonesque and


I trust that all Pythonesque vibes can be eliminated by putting the image of a skateboarding priest out of your mind.
Vera Mont December 31, 2024 at 14:58 #957031
Quoting Jamal
But I'm in two minds if I really want to change it. I quite like the appendix, so another option would be to sacrifice the verisimilitude of the "report" by removing a lot of the detail from the conclusion.


FWIW, I like the appendix too. For one thing, the monks were funny and I was curious how they fared. I always like to know, after a contest for example, what the participants went on to do. And I'm happy for Ivan - as cypher he may have begun, but I grew rather fond of him.
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 15:09 #957033
Reply to Vera Mont

This pleases me :grin:
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 16:01 #957042
I'd like to know what people think about a problem I had with this story.

There's a crucial point when she becomes it. Originally I didn't have this switch, so the climax of the violence was like this:

Most of her body is protected by the overcoat, which functions as cushioning armour, so in an effort to do some serious damage, they begin to batter her head and face. She screams and retreats, and they advance and attack harder, forcing her against the wall. The rhythm of their alternating blows builds to a frenzy. Even while they continue to break and mutilate, the two men look at each other and grin, intoxicated with the camaraderie of violence.


This might be more powerful and disturbing, but I chickened out. In this version, they're effectively beating a young woman to death and loving it, so it could be read as a misogynist fantasy. But then I thought maybe that's exactly what it needs and it'll be seen as introducing a moral ambiguity, and as a critique of misogyny.

What do yous think?
Amity December 31, 2024 at 16:09 #957044
I think 'it' works well. Because it incorporates the sense or spirit of the woman.

I love you.

I think that is a powerful image. The shifting shape. We can imagine it changing to and fro. Being both. In the struggle.
And the perhaps conflicted feelings of Ivan. But he is fighting for his life.
And the female within the 'it' would want him to survive.

I can also understand re misogyny and violence. Not everybody would be comfortable with that. However, it is a realistic and prevalent issue. Femicide.
I think its introduction would disrupt the flow of the mystical.
Tobias December 31, 2024 at 16:27 #957050
Quoting Jamal
I trust that all Pythonesque vibes can be eliminated by putting the image of a skateboarding priest out of your mind


Yes, getting tid of that image certainly helps! Thanks for your feedback Jamal!
Amity December 31, 2024 at 16:32 #957052
Reply to Jamal Thanks for taking time to give us all excellent and informative feedback. There is much more to think about. Congrats! :clap: :party:
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 16:32 #957053
Reply to Amity

Thanks, I shall ponder on. But one thing occurs to me:

Quoting Amity
I think 'it' works well. Because it incorporates the sense or spirit of the woman.


Surely it does the opposite, almost literally objectifying her? From she, a person, to it, a thing.
Amity December 31, 2024 at 16:33 #957054
Reply to Jamal

In a way, yes. In another way, no.
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 16:34 #957055
Reply to Amity

Ok, I'll think about it.
Amity December 31, 2024 at 16:36 #957057
Reply to Jamal :up: The spirit is strong :strong:
Happy Hogmanay! :party:
Tae yin an' aw. Cheers !
Jamal December 31, 2024 at 16:39 #957058
Reply to Amity

Happy Hogmanay to you, and Happy New Year when it comes. :party:
Amity December 31, 2024 at 16:47 #957061
Reply to Jamal
Thank you! Sam the Embray witch will sweep away ony nasty business ! :wink:
The New Year will bring magic, so it will :sparkle: :hearts:
Or I will be having words...
Take care, y'all! :sparkle:

Jamal January 01, 2025 at 15:03 #957344
Quoting Amity
I meant to say. I love the colonic introductions


Thank you. If I recall correctly, I had those in the story before it was even a story. For no reason, I had a particular kind of narrative voice in mind, with imperative framing, i.e., each paragraph beginning with an imperative directing the reader’s attention so as to describe the scene. I wondered if it would be annoying—being told to look, then listen, then look closer, etc., could generate a “no, get lost” reaction in a reader, at least a reader like me.
Vera Mont January 01, 2025 at 20:38 #957421
Quoting Jamal
This might be more powerful and disturbing, but I chickened out. In this version, they're effectively beating a young woman to death and loving it, so it could be read as a misogynist fantasy. But then I thought maybe that's exactly what it needs and it'll be seen as introducing a moral ambiguity, and as a critique of misogyny.


I doubt most readers would have a problem either way. As soon as she/it attacks Ivan, she/it becomes a monster; I'm not sure anyone stills identifies her/it as a woman. I think it worked and never gave the gender issue any thought. Others may be more sensitive to it.
Vera Mont January 01, 2025 at 20:43 #957423
Quoting Jamal
I wondered if it would be annoying—being told to look, then listen, then look closer, etc., could generate a “no, get lost” reaction in a reader,

Every paragraph? Yes, I think it would become tiresome. But at scene and focus changes, it works.
Jamal January 01, 2025 at 20:46 #957427
Reply to Vera Mont

To be clear, I originally had she/her but changed it to it for the submitted version. The earlier version is shown in my comment above. I was wondering which was best, and if the original version stank of misogynistic clichés. But if it doesn’t matter, or if I made the right choice with “it”, cool :smile:
Jamal January 01, 2025 at 20:49 #957429
Quoting Vera Mont
Every paragraph? Yes, I think it would become tiresome. But at scene and focus changes, it works.


No, I never considered doing it throughout the story, I just meant in that scene-setting passage.
Vera Mont January 01, 2025 at 21:14 #957439
Reply to Jamal
I don't think it matters. You started her as female, and I gather sex is part of the legend, so it would be fine to leave the pronoun in place throughout. I barely noticed the change to 'it' when I was reading the story, and didn't think that change signified anything more than the realization that this is monster.
As I say, I'm not too sensitive to gender-related nuance. Others may differ.

TBH, I really wouldn't tinker much more with this story. It works; it's intelligible; it's entertaining and pleasant to read. It's already very good.
Jamal January 01, 2025 at 21:24 #957440
Reply to Vera Mont

Thank you, I do tend to obsess about details.
hypericin January 01, 2025 at 23:01 #957484
Quoting Jamal
But then I thought maybe that's exactly what it needs and it'll be seen as introducing a moral ambiguity, and as a critique of misogyny.


I distinctly recall receiving the 'it' as permission to relish the savage beating. I think your intuition was correct: 'her' would have been more uncomfortable, ambiguous, and ultimately stronger.
hypericin January 01, 2025 at 23:04 #957488
Quoting Jamal
These comments gave me the dopamine hit I'd been miserably craving


Happy to provide the service!
Jamal January 02, 2025 at 16:08 #957670
Quoting hypericin
I distinctly recall receiving the 'it' as permission to relish the savage beating. I think your intuition was correct: 'her' would have been more uncomfortable, ambiguous, and ultimately stronger.


It's good to have my intuition confirmed by a reader. I suppose uncomfortable + ambiguous + stronger = better, but I'm still undecided if I want to go ahead. This is one of those things it might be good to come back to later, after time away from it.
hypericin January 04, 2025 at 19:50 #958173
Quoting Jamal
I have to shut down this apparently infectious idea that Ivanov is a priest!


Nope, two of us came up with it independently. Come on man, the people have spoken, he's gotta be a priest!
Jamal January 04, 2025 at 20:35 #958182
Reply to hypericin

I'm happy for you to interpret it in your own way so long as you shower it with praise.

But my suspicion—I'm a very suspicious guy—is that @Tobias got it from you, that he saw your comment before reading the story. Same with the post-apocalyptic thing, which he may have got from Jack.

On the other hand, you both gave me some good feedback so...whatever!
Tobias January 05, 2025 at 15:24 #958351
Quoting Jamal
But my suspicion—I'm a very suspicious guy—is that Tobias got it from you, that he saw your comment before reading the story. Same with the post-apocalyptic thing, which he may have got from Jack.


True probably. I do not know what I read first, the comments or the story, but I frequently skip back and forth between them. So I guess you are right and I got the post apocalyptic sense (though I remember having that vibe when reading the description of the city) and the priest interpretation from the comments.
Tobias January 05, 2025 at 15:25 #958353
Quoting hypericin
Nope, two of us came up with it independently. Come on man, the people have spoken, he's gotta be a priest!


This might certainly be true too... Ivanov is certainly toying with the idea of becoming a priest... :wink: