Bidzina Ivanishvili

Reply to Banno Let's hope :pray:

Excellent doco.

Reply to Banno Nicely done. Let's hope the people will soon get to run tours from the glass shark tank.

A supplementary questions comes to mind. Who or what replaces Putin when his time comes? Things could always be worse.

Reply to Banno I thought there was some major development in Georgia in the past few days that I hadn't heard about. But no, the ruling party is still in control and Ivanishvili is still its de facto leader. What's this all about then? Just a speculation about what might happen? (And shouldn't this be in Current Affairs?)

Reply to SophistiCat Since there is also a thread about Syria and al-Assad, I can't see the inconvenience of talking about another rich puppet and his eventual fall from power. There is a lot of pressure on Georgia at the moment, and we should not discard that Ivanishvili might be the next domino tile falling.

Also, Georgian people deserve our care and attention. They are struggling to get a future closer to the European Union. We should not ignore them.

Reply to javi2541997 It's all too tempting to reach for a recent precedent, but Georgia is nothing like Syria. Without an understanding of its specifics, it is useless to speculate about whether "Ivanishvili might be the next domino tile falling," and even then prediction is a risky game.

Authoritarian regimes are often said to be brittle. But brittle doesn't mean short-lived: there have been (and still are) authoritarian regimes that went on for many years and decades even (and some, like Russia, emerged briefly from authoritarianism, only to slip right back into it). They mostly appear to be brittle because when they finally fall, few can see it coming. But that's partly because they are also opaque.

Reply to SophistiCat And hence, Quoting Banno

It will be interesting to see how the fate of this oligarch plays out.

I doubt Putin, who is stretched pretty thin, is in a position to provide support to Ivanishvili. And that Georgia is nothing like Syria is further reason to play it some attention.

Quoting Tom Storm

Who or what replaces Putin when his time comes? Things could always be worse.

Indeed.

Reply to SophistiCat You seem to be hopeless regarding the situation of Georgia and Ivanishvili; it is understandable if we look at the precedents of ex-Soviet republics. But I think it is not useless to debate the fate of that oligarch. Maybe my prediction that he would be the next domino tile falling is a bit risky, but no one is safe in his position in this continuously changing world. We will see what happens, and we will discuss it in this thread. :smile:

Ivanishvili hasn't been and won't be the only oligarch who is booted out.

Reply to javi2541997 Oh, I am not being pessimistic, just saying that the situation there is a lot more complicated and uncertain than the domino metaphor would suggest. Even Georgia insiders don't offer any confident predictions on how the events will unfold.

Gakharia: Attack On Me Is Ivanishvili’s Political Revenge

Giorgi Gakharia, the leader of the opposition For Georgia party, who was attacked on January 15 in the Sheraton hotel in Batumi, said that the attack against him had the semblance of a premediated “political revenge” and was ordered and authored by Bidzina Ivanishvili.

Speaking at today’s briefing he said: “I and, in fact, my team were the victims of a premeditated and pre-organized violent attack, which had the appearance of political revenge, and which was ordered and authored by Bidzina Ivanishvili.”

Gakharia said Ivanishvili had been threatening him and his family “in various forms” for a long time, including publicly. He said he was not focusing on the perpetrators of the attack, but only on the “mastermind behind it” – Bidzina Ivanishvili, whom he described as “the main architect of violence” and “the main root of evil” in Georgia today.

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At the end of the briefing, he again vowed, “I will do whatever it takes to ensure that Ivanishvili loses what he values most – money and power.”

Reply to javi2541997 Thanks for the update. I hadn't seen this on our news.

First trial to our sweet billionaire tycoon: It took place on Monday in London.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/georgian-tycoon-accused-of-economic-destruction-by-former-ally-in-london-court/ar-AA1y05k5

Ivanishvili was accused on Monday in a London courtroom of “economic destruction” by lawyers for Georgian-British businessman Zaza Okuashvili, who is seeking nearly $50 million in lost profits and legal fees to date. Ivanishvili and his associates sought to destroy a string of Okuashvili’s businesses and personal wealth via means of intimidation, deception and conspiracy, taking advantage of his political influence in the country.

“Zaza Okuashvili finds himself unable to seek and obtain justice within Georgia, where due impartiality in any proceedings involving Bidzina Ivanishvili is, to put it mildly, highly questionable,” his lawyers said in court filings.

Oh, and this definitely rings a bell:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RepJoeWilson/status/1883944916323365066[/tweet]

:grin:

Everyone hates Soros.

Reply to Banno Either is Soros's or European bureaucrats' fault when a billionaire is cornered in the justice. :rofl:

Reply to javi2541997 Or, indeed, both!

Whinging about other countries' oligarchs to distract from our own. Oh wait, we call them "billionaire philanthropists" here.

Reply to Tzeentch ?

The main point of this thread is to discuss the current situation and eventual fate of our fella Ivanishvili. We are not distracting ourselves from our own. I am plenty aware that Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates' foundations, etc are also a big threat to our democracy; but they are already very boring. I think Ivanishvili is more interesting though.

Alas, Georgia seems to not be relevant to most people. I am aware that you are not fond of the EU, but Georgia's people deserve to vote on whether they want more proximity to the West or to Russia. Right? As well as we all overreacted towards Ukraine...

Reply to javi2541997 As far as I can tell, this thread hasn't gotten far beyond gloating over the fate of some random oligarch, who is only being prosecuted because of the war in Ukraine and the western effort to erode Russian influence in Russia's (former) sphere of influence.

We have oligarchs too, and they are much more influential (and cancerous) than this small fry. None of them are currently being prosecuted.

Furthermore, I find it highly worrying to observe intelligent people being unable to see what is going on here:

Quoting javi2541997

[...] , but Georgia's people deserve to vote on whether they want more proximity to the West or to Russia. Right?

This is exactly the type of reaction this media spin is meant to get out of you. "Poor Georgians, controlled by corrupt oligarchs, wouldn't it be nice if..."

Aren't you getting a déjà vu moment right about now?

This is exactly how western audiences were warmed up to the idea of Ukraine joining NATO.

So I find myself obliged to mention that we are controlled by corrupt oligarchs too, and that they do not have our best interests at heart, nor that of the Ukrainians, nor that of the Georgians.

Instead of absorbing information uncritically, one should ask "Why?" and "Why now?"

Mmmm. Lizard people.

Reply to Tzeentch Ah, gotcha. You are just another conspiracy nut such as the ones who assaulted the US Capitol building.

First, I don't even consume media at all. If I posted links related to the press, it was just because I was searching for information on the Internet about the current situation of Ivan, because as I said before, Georgia seems to be uninteresting and careless for people. Yet I care, and it seems interesting to me and Banno, who started this thread. This is not about who is the worst, mate. We know all are evil. But, sometimes, we also have to put the spotlight on other examples. The world doesn't start and end with Trump and Musk.

Second, this is not about NATO. At least, it is not how I see it. There is another thread about Al-Assad and Syria. Since folks also shared their opinions in that thread, why can't we do the same towards Ivan? Simple. According to your point, we should never look beyond our wall because we also already have some issues too.

Quoting javi2541997

Ah, gotcha. You are just another conspiracy nut such as the ones who assaulted the US Capitol building.

No clue where you got that idea.

It's 2025. If the idea that media is designed to manipulate you is still news for you, then I don't know what to tell you. Get out from under your rock, I suppose.

Reply to Tzeentch Did you take your time to read the two paragraphs I wrote after that introduction?

You claimed that I am brainwashed by the Western media and that's a fallacy. Then I answered that this thread is about Ivanishvili and that I don't even consume media at all. Yet you decided to play me. I don't want to jump into that rabbit hole.

Anyway, I will keep interested in sharing posts about Ivanshivili. It is obvious that everyone is welcome to share their opinions here too. But, please, don't derail the thread with conspiracy theories, the manipulating media and whataboutism. These belong to Donald Trump and Ukraine Crisis threads, for example.

Everything I wrote in the previous paragraph is implicitly consented by his author, @Banno. Otherwise, he can flag it if he thinks that's not the way we should approach this thread.

Reply to javi2541997 I never said you were brainwashed, nor did I 'play you' (whatever that means).

At most I suggested people in this thread were absorbing this information uncritically, exhibiting the reflexive, emotional response this type of media is meant to get out of them.

Apparently that must have hit a nerve, since you immediately felt the need to label me a 'conspiracy nut' - another typical reflexive response.

Quoting Tzeentch

At most I suggested people in this thread were absorbing this information uncritically, exhibiting the reflexive, emotional response this type of media is meant to get out of them.

Yes, I agree. That's what this thread is about: following the current situation of Ivanishvili. You might have missed some critical points from my side, and I understand it would be another good feature on this thread. Yet my aim was just informative, not reviewing anything. We were expecting if he would have a trial, and the London court is already processing him. I thought it was interesting to post here as well as the rest of the following news about Ivanishvili in the future.

On the other hand, I am sorry for calling you a 'conspiracy nut.' I admit I was way out of line. My apologies.

Reply to javi2541997 All good. :up:

Reply to Tzeentch
Fact is it doesn’t much matter what you think about this thread.

Interesting. Ivanishvili pulling the strings in the field of culture. https://eadaily.com/en/news/2025/01/29/parasites-bregvadze-and-kikabidze-ivanishvili-pays-those-who-are-against-him

3,350 is the number of people working in the field of culture and sports, to whom the founder of the Georgian Dream, entrepreneur Bidzina Ivanishvili, has been paying monthly salaries out of his own pocket for many years.

:rofl:

If you consider Bidzina Ivanishvili a traitor, a dictator, dear ladies and gentlemen, please count how much money you received from this "traitor", "dictator" and "russoblud" as creative help, and return it back to him in full or at least in parts, monthly, exactly as he paid them to you. And then I may believe that you are real patriots and know how to be principled in deeds, and not just in words.

Oh, and his son: a successful musician who was born albino. :cool:

Things are stirring...

Georgian Dream claims victory in all municipal elections in first round

Georgia’s police use water cannons on protesters trying to storm presidential palace

Reply to Banno

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/1016686