We’re Banning Social Media Links

Benkei March 28, 2025 at 13:15 5475 views 71 comments
Hi all,

We're introducing a new rule effective immediately: no social media links or embeds outside of the shoutbox, the news thread or in your profile.

We understand that social media is where a lot of news breaks and conversations happen—but it's also where a lot of toxicity, misrepresentation and manufactured outrage originates. It's also no substitute for making an argument. Too often, posts consist of links or embeds without any additional effort, often just to shock or illicit predictable responses bordering on trolling. This isn’t what the forum is for.

This rule is about keeping the forum grounded in original discussion. We want to encourage thoughtful posts, not just quote-tweet pile-ons or viral clips with no substance.

You can still share links in the shoutbox or news thread, where they’re more appropriate. Full feature videos, if relevant to a discussion, are acceptable but not tiktoks or similar shorts.

Going forward, any post that includes a link or embed from social media outside these areas will be deleted in full. No partial edits. No warnings. If you’re not sure whether something counts as “social media,” err on the side of caution.

We’re doing this to keep the forum healthy, focused and worth reading.

—The Mod Team

Comments (71)

flannel jesus March 28, 2025 at 14:26 #979203
What counts as social media?
fdrake March 28, 2025 at 14:26 #979204
Good.
Benkei March 28, 2025 at 14:48 #979207
Reply to flannel jesus Apart from the obvious?

Quoting Benkei
If you’re not sure whether something counts as “social media,” err on the side of caution.


flannel jesus March 28, 2025 at 15:01 #979214
Quoting Benkei
Apart from the obvious?


The boundaries are a little fuzzy. Facebook is the poster child of social media. Then Instagram. Twitter, but that seems a bit less strong. Reddit even less strongly still, because the majority of Reddit is anonymous. Reddit is arguably as much social media as this site is.

Some people say any site with a comment section is social media, but that would include many news sites.
Benkei March 28, 2025 at 15:03 #979216
Reply to flannel jesus Yes, the concept is indeed fuzzy. We therefore encourage posters not to explore borderline cases.

Edit: scrolling through your post history it doesn't really look like this will be a problem for you. I suppose it wouldn't be thephilosophyforum.com if someone didn't argue for the sake of argument...
T Clark March 28, 2025 at 15:06 #979217
Quoting Benkei
no social media links or embeds outside of the shoutbox, the news thread or in your profile.


I hope this doesn't include YouTube. I embed a lot of short clips from there.

Also, please add this change to the site guidelines page.
Benkei March 28, 2025 at 15:11 #979221
Quoting T Clark
I hope this doesn't include YouTube. I embed a lot of short clips from there.


It certainly covers YouTube shorts. For other videos it will be context dependent. I will delete any video embedded where you say "oh lookie, this guy really argues my point well for me". People not willing to make an effort to create original content should stick to regurgitating other people's ideas on X.

Quoting T Clark
Also, please add this change to the site guidelines page.


That was updated almost simultaneously but thanks for double checking.
T Clark March 28, 2025 at 15:14 #979223
Quoting Benkei
It certainly covers YouTube shorts.


I suggest also allowing it in the Lounge.
Benkei March 28, 2025 at 15:17 #979225
Mikie March 28, 2025 at 15:18 #979226
There goes the Donald Trump thread.
Tzeentch March 28, 2025 at 15:34 #979232
Good call.
T Clark March 28, 2025 at 15:34 #979233
Quoting Benkei
?T Clark No.


This is clearly part of Trump's Project 2025 program. Did Musk set you up to this?
Benkei March 28, 2025 at 15:52 #979236
Reply to T Clark For anthropological, or possibly psychological, reasons I'm interested in your reasoning steps from "no social media" to being "part of Trump's project 2025 program".
praxis March 28, 2025 at 15:55 #979239
Quoting Mikie
There goes the Donald Trump thread.


Most of NOS’s posts anyway.
T Clark March 28, 2025 at 15:56 #979240
Quoting Benkei
For anthropological, or possibly psychological, reasons I'm interested in your reasoning steps from "no social media" to being "part of Trump's project 2025 program".


Here in the US, and I assume elsewhere in the world, everything we don't like is Trump's and Musk's doing.
praxis March 28, 2025 at 16:09 #979245
Reply to T Clark

Did you learn that on social media?
Joshs March 28, 2025 at 16:24 #979247
Reply to T Clark

Quoting T Clark
This is clearly part of Trump's Project 2025 program. Did Musk set you up to this?


I believe Project 2025 states that all facts must be derived exclusively from social media sources.
boethius March 28, 2025 at 16:40 #979251
Thanks for this, on the Ukraine discussion one poster mostly just spammed links, without even summarizing them and when he did do so he'd make his point in the form of a question with an emoji, to avoid making an actual point. Really annoying.
J March 28, 2025 at 17:11 #979271
Reply to Joshs Reply to Joshs Actually, I believe the Project 2025 citation puts "facts" in quotes.
DasGegenmittel March 28, 2025 at 18:00 #979294
Deleted User March 28, 2025 at 19:46 #979323
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Benkei March 28, 2025 at 20:58 #979337
Reply to tim wood If it's "just news", then it's not philosophy and it goes into the Shoutbox or the News thread. If there's a philosophical point to be made, then it can be included in a thread if it's also accompanied by original content.
jorndoe March 28, 2025 at 23:40 #979364
I'm thinking there are some cases where social media messages can be evidence.
This was posted on a verified account (I added the embedded link):

Elon Musk · Mar 22, 2025:Exactly.
My son, Xavier, died. He was killed by the woke mind virus.
Now, the woke mind virus will die.


I think Musk's rationale for what he says/does came up in this thread.
The above message could serve as evidence.

But, moderation is a thankless, tedious job; going into that detail could make the job unreasonably time-consuming. :)

Vera Mont March 29, 2025 at 00:16 #979371
It's possible to quote something that was posted on social media without including a link.
As for You Tube contributions, it's not that hard to post the title of a documentary or commentary and let those who are interested search You Tube for it.
Since so much of social media content these days is toxic, and so many platforms are controlled by what we naively refer to as 'bad actors', avoiding links with them seems a sound decision.
Wayfarer March 29, 2025 at 00:38 #979380
Quoting Benkei
It certainly covers YouTube shorts.


Shorts are a subset of YouTube content. So are we to presume that this doesn't apply to the remaining YT content?
Shawn March 29, 2025 at 00:55 #979384
There go my pig videos.

:meh:
Metaphysician Undercover March 29, 2025 at 02:21 #979407
Quoting Shawn
There go my pig videos


This little piggy went to market...
Wayfarer March 29, 2025 at 03:02 #979418
Reply to Vera Mont Agree in general but of note the Australian legislation to put age restrictions on social media use exempted youtube.
T Clark March 29, 2025 at 03:24 #979425
Quoting Shawn
There go my pig videos.


No. Those will be allowed in the shout box.
Shawn March 29, 2025 at 03:41 #979429
Quoting T Clark
No. Those will be allowed in the shout box.


Yes, this.
Benkei March 29, 2025 at 06:03 #979459
Reply to Wayfarer The main concern is quality. Embedding YouTube without original content will get it deleted. "hey, check out David Harvey explaining das Kapital" will be deleted but, "at 3.28 David Harvey explains the concept of use value. I'm still having trouble understanding the different types of value and why the distinctions are necessary. Aside from use value there are exchange and labour value but he also distinguishes price from exchange value. Why? "
Wayfarer March 29, 2025 at 06:15 #979461
PoeticUniverse March 29, 2025 at 06:35 #979467
Quoting Benkei
Embedding YouTube without original content will get it deleted.


I make my own videos posted that pertain.
fdrake March 29, 2025 at 06:44 #979470
Reply to PoeticUniverse

Uh. Are you sure that's not publishing previously published work? Repeatedly? You've read the site rules right?
flannel jesus March 29, 2025 at 07:45 #979479
Reply to Benkei too right. I've seen this pattern too, people just posting videos (sometimes hours long videos) without explaining anything about why they're posting it, how it's relevant to the topic, anything.

Like they think they're so important that other people should dedicate hours of their life just to find out if this video this random person posted online might be worth watching. The conceitedness of it... exhausting.
Baden March 29, 2025 at 11:23 #979485
Reply to Benkei

Significant + for site quality.
ssu March 29, 2025 at 12:32 #979494
Quoting Benkei
The main concern is quality. Embedding YouTube without original content will get it deleted.

I'd hope at sometimes when the actual primary source is a Facebook posting or heck, a Signal-posting, then the actual source could be referred than to a news article concerning this. I find it good that moderator discretion is used.

For example, if Trump announces that the US is leaving NATO in a post in X with Elon applauding the act, would it still be OK to post this?

I totally understand the concern of dis/misinformation and usually I try always check everything I refer to that it's not fake. And I try to put at least the link to the source, even if it's very easy simply to copy paste the quote and find the actual link.

And if something is deleted, OK, fine. Hope that doesn't mean that people will be banned.


Quoting flannel jesus
I've seen this pattern too, people just posting videos (sometimes hours long videos) without explaining anything about why they're posting it, how it's relevant to the topic, anything.

This naturally shouldn't be done. And if you have a video, please explain in written just what it says or tells or what is the meaning for you to post it. If it's a longer one, good way is to give actual time when somebody says something that you think is so important.
Hanover March 29, 2025 at 12:40 #979495
The general idea is in requiring reference to original sources of information as opposed to hearsay or entirely fabricated accounts found on social media and they repeating it as fact.

Quoting ssu
example, if Trump announces that the US is leaving NATO in a post in X with Elon applauding the act, would it still be OK to post this?


This would be an exception it seems because it's not hearsay. It's from the horse's mouth.
ssu March 29, 2025 at 12:41 #979496
Quoting Hanover
It's from the horse's mouth.

Good.

There's a lot of that in our world today. (And refraining to put some whacky picture of a horse's mouth here)
Vera Mont March 29, 2025 at 13:40 #979501
Reply to Wayfarer
Now, how do you legislate the viewing age of people in their own home?
My only issue with links to You Tube is that video content can be embedded. Sometimes I don't want great big moving pictures cluttering up my bandwidth; I prefer the option to follow a link or not.
Otherwise, this doesn't affect me either way, since I already avoid certain platforms.
PoeticUniverse March 29, 2025 at 18:31 #979541
Quoting fdrake
Uh. Are you sure that's not publishing previously published work?


I put it on YouTube so I can show it here.
AmadeusD March 29, 2025 at 22:23 #979567
My feedback is that this isn't a good move.
kazan March 30, 2025 at 05:02 #979602
Quoting Hanover
he general idea is in requiring reference to original sources of information as opposed to hearsay or entirely fabricated accounts found on social media and they repeating it as fact.

example, if Trump announces that the US is leaving NATO in a post in X with Elon applauding the act, would it still be OK to post this? — ssu


This would be an exception it seems because it's not hearsay. It's from the horse's mouth


Legal brain in action.

"The intention of the legislation should hold sway over nitpicking its wording." If no judge has said that yet, it's about time one did.

Opening a can of good intentions, the moderators were presented with a can of worms.

sad smile
Benkei March 30, 2025 at 08:01 #979616
Reply to AmadeusD Coming from you, I'm now confident it's a great move.
Christoffer March 30, 2025 at 12:34 #979636
Reply to Benkei

Thanks! This is a good decision.

Just for clarification, if wrapped in an elaborated explanation and relevant context, with an actual argument, what then? Is it something like “use common sense” for when it is relevant? And longer YouTube videos are sometimes something else than social media opinion pieces, so what are the definitions on that? Is it mostly to get spamming twitter and other short form stuff that is forbidden?
javi2541997 March 30, 2025 at 13:12 #979640
First of all, it is obvious that banning social media links is a wise and nice decision.

Whenever I read the replies to this thread, I can't avoid laughing about some folks. I think it can't be clearer: Going forward, any post that includes a link or embed from social media outside these areas will be deleted in full. No partial edits. No warnings. If you’re not sure whether something counts as “social media,” err on the side of caution.

But what counts as social media?
But what about straight news?
But what about long videos?
But what about YouTube?
But what about YouTube Kids?

:lol:

Only those who allow AI to think for them ask such foolish questions. Jesus, it will be worse than I expected.
T Clark March 30, 2025 at 14:29 #979648
Quoting javi2541997
Only those who allow AI to think for them ask such foolish questions. Jesus, it will be worse than I expected.


I like your new feistiness, but many of the questions were reasonable.
javi2541997 March 30, 2025 at 14:46 #979651
Quoting T Clark
I like your new feistiness,but many of the questions were reasonable.


User image
Benkei March 30, 2025 at 15:25 #979661
Reply to Christoffer I don't want this to turn into a major burden for moderators; so personally I'm going to be really "dumb" with this rule and not spend more than activating two braincells to consider a post. If it isn't necessary to make an argument, I'm going to delete it. I don't even see the point to link to a Musk post on X just to prove he actually said something. I can rely on charitable interpretation that my interlocutor isn't lying. And if he is, someone will probably point it out.

@General: Since this is a new rule, there's not a 100% alignment between moderators yet as every moderator agreed in principle but they might still apply it differently.

If this level of uncertainty is too hard to deal with for some, I suggest those people put on a straightjacket and sit in a corner of a cushy white room and never engage with another person ever again.
Baden March 30, 2025 at 16:22 #979667
Quoting Benkei
. I don't even see the point to link to a Musk post on X just to prove he actually said something


Me either. It wouldn't make sense to lie about something anyone can go and check for themselves in seconds if they are in doubt.
Quk March 30, 2025 at 16:25 #979668
I think the ban is a very wise decision.
Christoffer March 30, 2025 at 17:33 #979680
Reply to Benkei

Yeah, I don’t think anything from such social media is of any relevance. But YouTube has a lot of quality channels that has really good material. But I agree that there has to be relevance to an argument being made, not instead of an argument.
Jack Cummins March 30, 2025 at 17:39 #979682
I am extremely pleased that such links are being banned as people kept posting them to me. I think that it led to some viruses on my Software and this has been one of the reasons I have steered away from the forum a bit because there has been so much linking to other sites and to 'You Tube' recently. I didn't come here to watch 'You Tube' and videos, especially as some take a while. It feels like an obligation to watch it before replying and I prefer reading.

Also, I prefer if people can summarise ideas as part of an argument, as opposed to just including what appears to be a chunk of undiigested ideas Sometimes, people don't back them up with an argument and it feels mere chunk of undigested information.

As far as links to other threads, including much older ones, I am unclear whether links to this site will be acceptable or not. I have never done this, but I do know people often do this because they don't wish to repeat themselves. Of course, it is possible to refer to threads by name and give the page number of a specific post. If someone is interested enough, it is easy to search for past threads.
Mikie March 30, 2025 at 21:55 #979732
It’s a great move and I applaud it. :clap:
flannel jesus March 30, 2025 at 22:04 #979734
Reply to Baden ease of access to referenced information is actually pretty important I think. There's a reason academic journals require cited sources.
Hanover March 31, 2025 at 02:55 #979777

Generally, social media posts carry a low level of reliability because anyone can post anything without limitation and footnoting it here then elevates it to a supposedly meaningful source.

If someone uses a social media post as a method of formally presenting their position and that is what is being debated, you have no reliability issue, so it should technically pass (like if Trump informs the world of his Greenland invasion on X).

However, I get that nuanced rules can quickly become impossible to enforce and moderation shouldn't require every mod to sit as a judge and sort through arguments. It's easier with a hard and fast rule, even if the net thrown is occasionally too wide.

In any event, I would think the necessity to cite to social media would be very rare. If this rule can eliminate without objection 99% of those cites, the objective has been accomplished. We'll deal with those rare moments when they occur, but generally, no one cares what Bob from Peoria thinks of climate change
AmadeusD March 31, 2025 at 06:23 #979790
Reply to Benkei The exact level of discourse I'd like to avoid. This isn't Twitter.
Baden March 31, 2025 at 08:10 #979799
Reply to flannel jesus

I agree, but checking the work in an academic source would likely be laborious. Checking that Elon Musk tweeted something on X would not be.

Quoting Hanover
In any event, I would think the necessity to cite to social media would be very rare. If this rule can eliminate without objection 99% of those cites, the objective has been accomplished. We'll deal with those rare moments when they occur, but generally, no one cares what Bob from Peoria thinks of climate change


:up:



frank March 31, 2025 at 14:41 #979858
Does this mean I can't post a Spacetime video to explain what energy is? I've posted that thing about 5 times already.
Benkei March 31, 2025 at 15:11 #979859
Reply to frank Not any longer indeed.
frank March 31, 2025 at 15:23 #979863
alleybear March 31, 2025 at 17:17 #979879
Howz bout dis'...if it ain't yer original thought, or yo' original thought about somebody else's thought, don't post?
Benkei March 31, 2025 at 17:25 #979881
Reply to alleybear That's only true for full length videos. We still don't care you have an original thought about Trump's latest social truth rant. It will be deleted. ;-)

Actually, we do, just without the link to truth social.
AmadeusD March 31, 2025 at 21:48 #979931
Reply to Benkei Do you/we though? This isn't meant to be inflammatory - sure you still don't care?
jgill April 01, 2025 at 03:36 #979969
Quoting alleybear
Howz bout dis'...if it ain't yer original thought, or yo' original thought about somebody else's thought, don't post?


I wonder how many original thoughts have been posted on this forum? Fifty years ago my math advisor said, "You might think you have an original thought, but it's likely someone has had that thought before, perhaps in another context".
T Clark April 01, 2025 at 17:28 #980063
Quoting jgill
someone has had that thought before


Probably 2,500 years ago.
Hanover April 01, 2025 at 21:12 #980092
It might be true that every thought thunk has already been said, but everytime you open a banana, you are the first person to ever see it.
jgill April 01, 2025 at 22:38 #980110
Quoting Hanover
. . . but everytime you open a banana, you are the first person to ever see it.


How exciting. Be sure and post its image on TPF. :cool:
Benkei April 02, 2025 at 06:37 #980158
I've realised that an exception for the learning centre makes sense as well, to allow people to share online resources. I will update the guidelines accordingly.

Edit, it now reads:

Social media

We want to encourage thoughtful posts, not just share quote-tweet or viral clips with little to no substance. As a result, posts containing links and embeds to social media are deleted, shorts as well. Full feature videos, if relevant to the discussion and accompanied by original content of the posters, may be left standing. This is at moderator discretion.

Carve outs:
  • In the Learning Centre and its subcategories, when sharing resources, original content is not required.
  • The Shoutbox and The News Discussion are exempt from this new posting guideline.

Wayfarer April 02, 2025 at 06:51 #980159
Reply to Benkei :cheer:
Benkei April 02, 2025 at 14:37 #980218
I'm closing this thread for now and unpinning it.