Is Symmetry a non-physical property?

Danileo April 27, 2025 at 13:24 4525 views 23 comments
If we observe nature carefully, everything appears as an original form, different from the rest. One cherry blossom can be similar to one another, but never reaches the point to be exactly equal.
Until it gets to the mind, where nature effects do not have longer acquaintance and symmetry could be perfectly imagined.
Could this symmetry affect the world?

Comments (23)

Deleted User April 27, 2025 at 16:43 #984776
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Danileo April 27, 2025 at 18:05 #984789
Reply to tim wood I think I am unsure to know exactly what you mean, could you rephrase what you said please
unenlightened April 27, 2025 at 18:13 #984792
Reply to Danileo Approximate symmetry certainly affects the world.

Consider the uncommon Scottish haggis: it has 2 long legs on one side, and 1 short leg on the other, and this allows them to run around the hills in one particular direction. Nature has contrived that the male and female of the species are complementary such that they run around in opposite directions, thus enabling regular meetings of opposite sexes. And if it were otherwise, the species would be even more rare and exotic than it is.
Danileo April 27, 2025 at 18:21 #984793
Reply to unenlightened yea approximate symmetry rules the world, but pure symmetry is not, as everything is affected by particles symmetry is impossible
unenlightened April 27, 2025 at 18:36 #984795
Reply to Danileo You know particles are just little parts?
Questioner April 27, 2025 at 18:53 #984797
There is symmetry in music. Listen to Bach’s Prelude in C Major (2:44 min) and enjoy the symmetry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frxT2qB1POQ
Deleted User April 27, 2025 at 18:54 #984798
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Danileo April 27, 2025 at 18:58 #984799
Reply to unenlightened yea why you mentioning that?
Danileo April 27, 2025 at 19:03 #984801
Reply to Questioner nature has semi-symmetry like birds singing, maybe batch was copying birds
Questioner April 27, 2025 at 19:12 #984803
Reply to Danileo

There is also symmetry in movement. I love to swim, and when I mentioned to my doctor how good it makes me feel, not just physically but mentally, she said it is because of the symmetrical motion of my limbs in the water, which pleases my brain.
Danileo April 27, 2025 at 19:18 #984804
Yea I like to walk, another symmetrical motion, but I don't do it perfectly. And thinking about myself walking symmetric, brings my unsymmetric body to the equation, breaking the symmetry.
jgill April 27, 2025 at 23:00 #984827
Quoting Danileo
?unenlightened
yea approximate symmetry rules the world, but pure symmetry is not, as everything is affected by particles symmetry is impossible


In mathematics, metric spaces are sets of points and a measure of distance between them: d(x,y)
such that d(x,y)=d(y,x), symmetry. In the real world, is the distance between my front door and my mailbox the same as the distance between my mailbox and front door?
Danileo April 28, 2025 at 17:13 #984906
Reply to jgill how do you know is the same distance
jgill April 28, 2025 at 21:30 #984927
Quoting Danileo
?jgill
how do you know is the same distance


23 steps out, 23 steps back.
Metaphysician Undercover April 28, 2025 at 21:40 #984928
Quoting jgill
In the real world, is the distance between my front door and my mailbox the same as the distance between my mailbox and front door?


If this is a symmetry, then "symmetry" has distinct meanings. I think of symmetry as involving two distinct parts. which are identical. Here we have one thing looked at from different perspectives.
jgill April 28, 2025 at 22:00 #984933
Fire Ologist April 28, 2025 at 22:31 #984936
“What is the sum of 2 plus 2?”

Isn’t the number all of us say in answer to this question not only symmetrical, but identical?

Is it even possible that your answer be the slightest bit different than mine?

So now, does the answer possibly affect the world? What if we asked this question to tally up the parachutes needed on a crashing airplane? Do two minds exchanging symmetrical notions of “4” affect the world in which say three or five people need parachutes?
Moliere April 28, 2025 at 22:33 #984937
Reply to jgill I'm going to remember this as a good example for explaining symmetry.
Metaphysician Undercover April 28, 2025 at 23:54 #984949
Reply to jgill
Like I thought, two different meanings. I think the op uses the word in the following way:
"the quality of being made up of exactly similar parts facing each other or around an axis."
Deleted User April 29, 2025 at 00:41 #984957
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Metaphysician Undercover April 29, 2025 at 00:56 #984961
Quoting tim wood
Lol! It seems to me that "exactly similar" is an oxymoron or close to it.


I think that's exactly the point made by the op. "Symmetry" is a sort of self-refuting idea, which we allow to have existence in our minds, but it is denied from reality. Like many ideals (perfections) we conceive them, but they do not have real independent existence.
Count Timothy von Icarus April 29, 2025 at 01:04 #984962
Reply to tim wood Reply to Metaphysician Undercover

To even have "two potatoes" or "two people" requires that there are similarities between particulars such that there are potatoes, people, etc. If people are not sure if potatoes, ants, or people exist "outside the mind," I don't really know how they are able to avoid full blown solipsism and all-encompassing radical skepticism. Afterall, if there aren't potatoes and ants, then presumably there aren't people either, and all "other people" would also be "generated by the mind."

Plus, if every mind is "constructing its own world," there are either symmetries between these worlds, or else each person effectively lives in their own, isolated world.
Danileo April 29, 2025 at 08:31 #985013
Reply to Fire Ologist addition is quite another controversy, I think when you got two and you add another two the addition is occurring in the world.