Truth SeekerJune 22, 2025 at 22:242600 views57 comments
I struggle to make choices. I constantly second-guess myself. I often wish I had made different choices than the ones I made. What is the best way to make choices?
Choices can vary in scope, scale and magnitude and consequences should be considered before making them. Consider an individual making a choice of whether to have tea or coffee in the morning or whether to have an abortion or not. One is almost inconsequential the other potentially life changing so more thought and deliberation should be given to it.
Reply to kindred Thank you for your helpful reply. How would one assess whether to have an abortion or not? What if it is not legal where one lives? Should they go to another country where it is legal and have it there? Should they carry the foetus and give birth, then put the baby up for adoption? What is the right thing to do? How would one know?
I've never really given it much thought. I just make choices and go with them. Sometimes I regret a decision, but not often. I'm trying to understand what kinds of choices typically lead to regret. Is it things like having children, getting married, or deciding where to live? But day-to-day choices dont seem to matter much, even if the outcome is disappointing. Maybe I just dont make very important choices very often.
The abortion one is just an example of a type of choice. And yes legalities should be considered or discarded, it depends on the individual if they want to go the legal route in their jurisdiction.
The point is choices should be made on the basis of yielding a positive outcome for oneself and others (if it affects others) this may sometimes mean making difficult choices in the beginning for better rewards later.
There are factors involved when making choices and these are often a matter of personal preference.
I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. My parents told me to ignore the psychiatrist and not take the prescribed medications. I didn't listen to my parents. I trusted my psychiatrist and took the prescribed medications. 27 years and 3 months later, I am still struggling with depression and all the side-effects of the prescribed medications. I have gone from 65 kg to 98 kg as my medication causes weight gain. My mental illness has ruined my physical health, education, career and relationships. I often wonder how my life would be if I had listened to my parents instead of my psychiatrist.
There are factors involved when making choices and these are often a matter of personal preference.
How would I know what personal preference I should have? It's not always clear if the outcome would be positive for me and others. For example, I am on the NHS Organ Donation Register. I have been on it since May 1997. If I were to kill myself, it would end my constant suffering (due to Bipolar Disorder, CPTSD and chronic pain) and save the lives of those who need organs to live. So, should I kill myself? I am certain that my parents would be very upset if I killed myself. That's one of the reasons I haven't yet killed myself.
How would I know what personal preference I should have?
Matter of personal taste. You might have a preference of one thing over the other.
In terms of suicide of why you should stay alive it breaks down to practicality and its something out of my remit to advise on personal choices and circumstances.
In terms of suicide of why you should stay alive it breaks down to practicality and its something out of my remit to advise on personal choices and circumstances.
My goal is to save and improve as many lives as possible. Obviously, suicide doesn't save my life, but it does end my suffering, which is a kind of improvement. Also, my donated organs will save the lives of others. Don't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one? Although my suicide would cause suffering to those who love me. Also, it would prevent any future good deeds by me, e.g. I have donated blood many times.
You should understand that you are not alone in any of this. Not that knowing this makes it any easier, but it might take away some of the stigma.
I very much like the approach set out by Terry Pratchett in Lords And Ladies. I've mentioned it a few times hereabouts. The witch Granny Weatherwax meets her one-time lover, the wizard Mustrum Ridcully. Ridcully is full of "might-have-beens"...
Terry Pratchet:Do you remember
I have a very good memory, thank you.
Do you ever wonder what life would have been like if youd said yes? said Ridcully.
No.
I suppose wed have settled down, had children, grandchildren, that sort of thing
Granny shrugged. It was the sort of thing romantic idiots said. But there was something in the air tonight
What about the fire? she said.
What fire?
Swept through our house just after we were married. Killed us both.
What fire? I dont know anything about any fire?
Granny turned around.
Of course not! It didnt happen. But the point is, it might have happened. You cant say if this didnt happen then that would have happened because you dont know everything that might have happened. You might think somethingd be good, but for all you know it could have turned out horrible. You cant say If only Id because you could be wishing for anything. The point is, youll never know. Youve gone past. So theres no use thinking about it. So I dont.
Counterfactuals are recondite. You cant say if this didnt happen then that would have happened because you dont know everything that might have happened. In your case you can't say how things would have been had you followed your parent's advice, any more than Ridcully could be sure that if he had made a different decision he would have lived happily every after.
More likely, you would be equally discontent but with a different set of issues.
"You cant say if this didnt happen then that would have happened because you dont know everything that might have happened."
Well you can save and improve many lives by staying alive. This is obviously a sensitive topic and I feel Im not qualified to advise given your predicament, and whilst you view the termination of your life as selfless in terms of organ donation I feel its too much responsibility for you to take on by yourself. Instead cherish the good moments in the everyday and if practical with the help of pain reducing medication aim to reduce the pain your going through.
Reply to kindred I use heat therapy (e.g. electric blanket, heat patches, hot water bottle, etc.) to reduce the intensity of the pain, as pain-relieving medications for chronic nerve pain make my Bipolar Disorder worse.
Wouldn't it have been better if I had never existed at all?
Well, if Granny Weatherwax is right, we can't possibly know what the world would be like if you never existed.
It just is as it is.
I suppose the upshot is that choices are about what happens next, not about what happened in the past.
Perhaps the hardest part of living with disability is the constant struggle to improve, to advocate for oneself, to find better ways of doing things. Every small step is so very hard. Sisyphus had it easy in comparison, at least he knew what would happen next.
Stuff that those not living with disability can never grasp.
Seems to me that the key is other people. Keep reaching out. And keep in mind that while you don't know what will happen next, sometimes things get better.
Great topic. This is something that plagues me as well. In fact our stories are not dissimilar, I too took psychiatric medications that have caused me a lifetime of regret. I too wonder what life could have been had i not made this terrible choice.
Sartre said that man is condemned to be free. We, me you and others with these thoughts, feel this condemnation in this way. Life can seem a nightmare welter of decisions. Every moment a decision, both ones we make directly, and the many more we make passively, by omission.
There is a kind of horror to it. Our minds seem woefully inadequate to the task of computing the myriad of factors that are necessary to decide peven relatively trivial things. For instance, you mentioned choosing where to live. A good choice grants relative happiness, thriving, tranquility. Whereas a bad choice can cause discomfort, unease, unhappiness, a relative failure to grow and thrive. A weighty choice, never made with adequate information, nor with a mind capable of accurately extrapolating this information into the future.
And that is mundane and inconsequential. Consider how magnified the decisions of whether to marry, with whom, whether to have kids are. And these are still routine decisions on the scale of individual lives, which most of us must make. All these are lifetime inflection points. On one side lies one life, on the other, another life. One might indeed be vastly better, happier, more fulfilling. But which?
Welcome to the human condition.
While freedom is a curse, it is also life's greatest blessing, and I say this with total sincerity. Llfe truly wouldn't be living without freedom.
Much more to be said, but what do you think of that so far?
I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. My parents told me to ignore the psychiatrist and not take the prescribed medications. I didn't listen to my parents. I trusted my psychiatrist and took the prescribed medications. 27 years and 3 months later, I am still struggling with depression and all the side-effects of the prescribed medications. I have gone from 65 kg to 98 kg as my medication causes weight gain. My mental illness has ruined my physical health, education, career and relationships. I often wonder how my life would be if I had listened to my parents instead of my psychiatrist.
I think any choices you would have made in the past will have been overwhelmed by your condition.
I think you made the correct decision in trusting the psychiatrist even if the outcome was much worse than keeping off meds. (not that you will ever know)
It was an informed decision and the advice was made by professionals that see patients constantly and even give the best care available at the time.
Going forward, I think simple decision making on a micro level would be of benefit.
You say that your physical health, education, career and relationships have been ruined but you are where you are and decisions going forward are the only ones that matter.
You can start on your fitness from today. I'm in my 60s and whilst being relatively fit I wanted to improve. One goal was pressups. My first attempt was 5 and I collapsed. Every day I shower and the water takes a few minutes to warm up. Every day I now do pressups before the shower. I have improved but the lesson I learned was that I need to do it everyday and it is a little win.
I would see your career and education now would be to learn about nutrition and fitness and work at it slowly and incrementally and don't sweat any
You obviously love your parents and you can repay them by being a slightly better person than you were. That is mainly for you though.
Relationships is a hard one, especially the older you get but the relationship most important now is with yourself.
I too wonder what life could have been had i not made this terrible choice.
It seems I may have been wrong about the choice!
I have come through life almost scar free and I have lead an ordinary life but an enjoyable one.
I am fairly passive on most decisions as I see them as almost irrelevant but I think I was just very lucky. Which sometimes is important (even though I'm not superstitious in any way.
Seems to me that the key is other people. Keep reaching out. And keep in mind that while you don't know what will happen next, sometimes things get better.
While freedom is a curse, it is also life's greatest blessing, and I say this with total sincerity. Llfe truly wouldn't be living without freedom.
Much more to be said, but what do you think of that so far?
Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts. I am so sorry that you, too, have the burden of regretting taking psychiatric medications.
I don't feel free. Do you feel free?
Here are some things I have done, currently do or will do even though I don't want to do them:
1. Breathe
2. Eat
3. Drink
4. Sleep
5. Dream
7. Pee
8. Poo
9. Fart
10. Burp
11. Sneeze
12. Cough
13. Age
14. Get ill
15. Get injured
16. Sweat
17. Cry
18. Suffer
19. Snore
20. Think
21. Feel
22. Choose
23. Be conceived
24. Be born
25. Remember some events
26. Forget some events
27. Die
I really want to go back in time and prevent all suffering, injustice, and death and make all living things forever happy, but I lack the capacity to do this.
you are where you are and decisions going forward are the only ones that matter.
I agree because I can't change the past. Thank you for sharing your experience and for your advice. I am exercising daily but it is hard. I have a healthy diet but my problem is that my medication causes weight gain. I am also trying to learn computer programming which I find hard because of my depression and because of my age. I am 47.
I have come through life almost scar free and I have lead an ordinary life but an enjoyable one.
I am glad that you have had an easy life. I had many traumatic experiences from age 4 onwards. I am not going to go into the details of them because it is hard for me, and also I don't want to distress you and others.
This happens because I am haunted by previous errors. If I had known how things would turn out, I would have chosen differently.
Exactly. If you had access to more information you would have chosen differently. So the question is, could it have been at all possible for you to have that information when making your decision? If not, then you can't blame yourself. You made the best possible decision given the information you had at that moment. Now, we could talk about who might be to blame, if anyone, for your limited access to information (and it could be you that is to blame if you chose to live in a bubble) that would have allowed you to make a more informed decision, but that is a different topic.
Wouldn't it have been better if I had never existed at all?
Only if you were Caligula, Hitler or Stalin. But even then, every human is an example of the variety humans come in and permits us to bear witness the scope of human experience and existence that exists.
You made the best possible decision given the information you had at that moment.
It's not just a matter of having access to information. It's also a matter of who to trust. I chose to trust a qualified and experienced psychiatrist over my parents because I thought that was the right thing to do. I can't even come off the 600 mg of Quetiapine XL I take per night because my brain has become dependent on this medication, and I can't function without it. I am depressed even though I take such a high dose.
I meant whether my nonexistence would have been better for me, compared to the life I have lived so far, which has been mostly suffering. Also, my nonexistence would have prevented all of my negative and positive impacts on others and the world e.g. ecological footprint. I am a Vegan, Egalitarian, Sentientist.
I struggle to make choices. I constantly second-guess myself. I often wish I had made different choices than the ones I made. What is the best way to make choices?
I hear ya bro. Most folks try to make the "best" choice, but those who have a significant fear of the "worst" outcome from making choices (typically manifested by second guessing) are best served by making choices that eliminate the worst outcome, even if it also makes the best outcome unlikely, settling for a likely "pretty good" outcome. Obviously you know yourself best, so you're in the position to determine what is driving you to second guess, but this is a very common situation.
More simply, Aristotle's advice would be to identify people who you believe make good choices, and emulate them. Also consult and associate with them if at all possible.
I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. My parents told me to ignore the psychiatrist and not take the prescribed medications. I didn't listen to my parents. I trusted my psychiatrist and took the prescribed medications. 27 years and 3 months later, I am still struggling with depression and all the side-effects of the prescribed medications. I have gone from 65 kg to 98 kg as my medication causes weight gain. My mental illness has ruined my physical health, education, career and relationships. I often wonder how my life would be if I had listened to my parents instead of my psychiatrist.
One way we improve is by identifying mistakes and then resolving to change. What do you see as your mistake in this instance? What is the thing you wish you had done differently?
Ideally you want to identify something that is more than surface-level. So you shouldn't look back and say, "I shouldn't have taken medication, and therefore I now resolve to not take any medications." Or even, "I shouldn't have taken psychiatric medication, and therefore I now resolve to not take psychiatric medication." You want to identify something deeper than that.
The case you give is tricky because you were stuck between the authority of a medical professional and the authority of your parents, both of which have a strong purchase on you. Ideally you should start with smaller changes and less difficult questions if you want to improve your ability to make choices. "Small steps," as they say.
Thank you. CPTSD and Bipolar Disorder make a difficult combo to treat. I also wish I had better treatment than what I had. I have been on so many medications in the last 27 years and 3 months. I wish they had given me EMDR and Schema Therapy back in March 1998. I had EMDR in 2024 which helped. I am waiting to have Schema Therapy.
Be happy with making mistakes, based on moving forward with the best of your current knowledge.
With this in mind, I cannot fault myself for simply 'being wrong'. That's something everyone deals with and is amoral. Every time I do something that requires a choice above the trivial, I asses what information I have to hand, go and get information I know I can get, and make a decision based on this. Action ensues. The outcome will only be relevant to later decisions.
In this way, i've been both better at making choices/pulling triggers, and also better are adjusting my positions or actions based on prior results.
This means I am never "second guessing" myself because everything is done to a framework, applicable at all times.
Reply to Truth Seeker No worries. Think of trying for the best as Offense and avoiding the worst as Defense. It's just a question of knowing when to defend (typically when you're nervous or uncertain) and when to go for the win (typically when you are on familiar territory and are confident).
Naturally one's appreciation of "confidence" can be skewed by a bipolar condition, so adjust for that.
Thank you. CPTSD and Bipolar Disorder make a difficult combo to treat.
I wasn't aware of that diagnosis when I commented, but I did see that you were taking responsibility for a situation you clearly had no responsibility for. What I could see from a few paragraphs of text, your psychiatrist should have been well aware of, and in not consulting and coming to an agreement with your parents (and yourself) about treatment they have set up this further conflict for you, and produced further guilt and shame, that I guess was evoked in you by earlier traumas. Shame on them, therefore! There is no way on earth that you in your distress could have resisted the influence of the socially authorised expert.
Good Will Hunting:It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.
If you haven't, do watch this golden oldie; it is a Hollywood fantasy, but it's a good one. And good luck with what looks to be a much more positive way forwards.
It's not just a matter of having access to information. It's also a matter of who to trust. I chose to trust a qualified and experienced psychiatrist over my parents because I thought that was the right thing to do. I can't even come off the 600 mg of Quetiapine XL I take per night because my brain has become dependent on this medication, and I can't function without it. I am depressed even though I take such a high dose.
Getting a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc opinion would also qualify as getting more information before making a decision. I always try to find natural remedies first and will seek alternate opinions if the first doctors are recommending pharmaceuticals or surgery first. They should always be a last resort. And another suggestion, children should listen to their parents more. Parents are not the ignorant, out of touch people that the media portrays to teens. Parents' motives are not typically related to money where a doctor's can be.
I meant whether my nonexistence would have been better for me, compared to the life I have lived so far, which has been mostly suffering. Also, my nonexistence would have prevented all of my negative and positive impacts on others and the world e.g. ecological footprint. I am a Vegan, Egalitarian, Sentientist.
That is an unanswerable question, and best not to waste time contemplating it as it would just make your depression worse. There is always someone or some animal that is suffering more. It would be more productive to focus on ways to improve your life than to focus on things you have no control over or can never hope to answer.
I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. My parents told me to ignore the psychiatrist and not take the prescribed medications. I didn't listen to my parents. I trusted my psychiatrist and took the prescribed medications. 27 years and 3 months later, I am still struggling with depression and all the side-effects of the prescribed medications. I have gone from 65 kg to 98 kg as my medication causes weight gain. My mental illness has ruined my physical health, education, career and relationships. I often wonder how my life would be if I had listened to my parents instead of my psychiatrist.
First I would like to state that I am in no way qualified to be saying this, however I do have a slight understanding and sympathy for your situation.
Looking through your words in this chat it seems like this one decision is one of your major regrets. Understandably, this one choice has changed your life in ways nobody can absolutely know.
However, today you are still alive, and that is nothing to be ashamed or regret over. As you have said it has been nearly thirty years since that one choice, do you believe you have not changed at all?
Does that one decision, that was possibly wrong, mean that all of your decisions to this day will always be as such?
Though I can't see into your mind, or experience the pain you have. I myself have also had some very self depressing thoughts, and while the effects might be nowhere close to yours they are also a hill that I will stand and defend.
How I came out of my own self depression I would say would be cowardice, doubt, and then bravery and recklessness. I always believed there was an answer out there that could save me.
As for my advice from experience, find one thing that you love, that you can't abandon no matter what. Once I found that thing, any self depressing thoughts became insults against that love.
It is always okay to start anew, to leave some of your mistakes behind.
(Everything prior was just me brainwashing myself into thinking OP needs help from my experience)
Now your main post was about making choices and second guessing yourself. You ask the best way to make choices.
Personally, I think making guesses based on your values is important. If it is merely a choice and not a question then chose so that you don't regret.
I also think this goes beyond simple desires. Obviously choosing something easy now could very likely become something you regret. It is also important to state that I don't follow the completely logical approach to life.
Make a choice that you don't regret choosing. For example, you could choose to gamble or not to. While to me whether you do it depends on the stakes, there might be a time where you choose either.
Would you regret not gambling, maybe. But you would definitely regret it once you lose.
On the other hand, if not gambling means you remain the same, and winning means you gain something that you were missing, then it might be a good choice to gamble. You don't regret wanting what you were aiming for. (It should be obvious , but not only actual gambling.)
The important thing in choice is that you are the one making it, and not others.
Here are some things I have done, currently do or will do even though I don't want to do them:
1. Breathe
2. Eat
3. Drink
4. Sleep
5. Dream
7. Pee
8. Poo
9. Fart
10. Burp
11. Sneeze
12. Cough
13. Age
14. Get ill
15. Get injured
16. Sweat
17. Cry
18. Suffer
19. Snore
20. Think
21. Feel
22. Choose
23. Be conceived
24. Be born
25. Remember some events
26. Forget some events
27. Die
I think this is a misunderstanding of freedom. Freedom does not mean freedom from the constraints of existence. That is death.
Think of it like a game of chess. You are not free to move pawns backwards. You are not free to move bishops sideways. The only way to do these things is to not play the game. And importantly, you are not free to win every game. But within the constraints of the game, you are afforded the freedom to choose any move you wish, so many choices that even the most powerful computer cannot explore them all.
Sometimes I feel free. Even when I do, I am still profoundly constrained by the environment, and by myself. Nonetheless, life affords a vast scope of choices. This can be agonizing, and wonderful.
I think this is a misunderstanding of freedom. Freedom does not mean freedom from the constraints of existence. That is death.
Think of it like a game of chess. You are not free to move pawns backwards. You are not free to move bishops sideways. The only way to do these things is to not play the game. And importantly, you are not free to win every game. But within the constraints of the game, you are afforded the freedom to choose any move you wish, so many choices that even the most powerful computer cannot explore them all.
Sometimes I feel free. Even when I do, I am still profoundly constrained by the environment, and by myself. Nonetheless, life affords a vast scope of choices. This can be agonizing, and wonderful.
Regarding your original post: Why do you wish that you had made different choices? This seems to presuppose that if you had made different choices, things would be better, but this isn't obviously the case. Every decision, has some benefits and some negatives - its only often when we imagine the benefits of having done something else, while ignoring the fact that other choices would have necessarily had other hardships and issues crop up for us to face, that we feel regret. But, truthfully, its what you do with the benefits and negatives of any decision that truly matters. How you play the card that you're dealt. Beauty can come out of struggling, if you accept and strive to move forward and learn along the way.
Each of us has strengths, and weaknesses; things we reflect on, and think we could have done better, but this just presents an opportunity to learn, and adapt, how we choose to respond to future situations. Imagine this:
Imagine the world was such that everyone, always, made the best possible, optimal decision for themselves, leading to no regret, or second-guessing - would our decisions and their outcomes hold the same weight and import to us? What I mean is this, there are many things that, I think I could have done better, and its through reflecting on these things that I feel I've become stronger, and better equipped to deal with the world, and this makes my experiences unique and valuable to me.
Why do you wish that you had made different choices?
Because of all the suffering I have gone through and others have gone through as a result of my choice to trust my psychiatrist instead of my parents. I was a first-year medical student when I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. In September 2002, my psychiatrist instructed me not to attend clinical sessions during depressive episodes. I did what I was told, but the medical school expelled me on the 13th of February 2003 because I had not attended the clinical sessions. Listening to my psychiatrist didn't just cause 27 years of suffering and side effects, but it ruined my career as a doctor. I could go on and on about everything that has happened during the last 27 years, but I don't have the time to do that. Also, I don't think you have the time to read hundreds of thousands of words.
Imagine the world was such that everyone, always, made the best possible, optimal decision for themselves, leading to no regret, or second-guessing - would our decisions and their outcomes hold the same weight and import to us?
Such a thing could only happen if everyone were all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful. How else could everyone make perfect choices? Since all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful beings don't exist, such a scenario will always be imaginary.
What I mean is this, there are many things that, I think I could have done better, and its through reflecting on these things that I feel I've become stronger, and better equipped to deal with the world, and this makes my experiences unique and valuable to me.
That's fine. I am glad your life is not as full of suffering as mine has been and continues to be.
I actually responded because your story resonates with me - so please don't misunderstand. I also have BPD and other comorbid issues that have in fact caused me many, many, issues and have at times been hell for me to manage and deal with. I don't want to get into my personal life, too much, and all the trouble its caused me. I just want to say that, as someone that has and is dealing with, perhaps, similar issues (and many of them do sound similar) I'm sorry that you're struggling. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone, and that I truly believe that we can make the best of our lives.
I just wanted you to know that you're not alone, and that I truly believe that we can make the best of our lives.
Thank you for your kindness. BPD is short for Borderline Personality Disorder. Is that what you have, or do you have Bipolar Affective Disorder, which is shortened to BAD? We are all making the best of our lives, but that doesn't mean our lives are perfect. I want lives to be perfect for all living things. I want the absence of all suffering, injustice and death. I want all living things to be forever happy. I know I will never get what I want, but that doesn't mean what I want is not worth wanting.
I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. My parents told me to ignore the psychiatrist and not take the prescribed medications. I didn't listen to my parents. I trusted my psychiatrist and took the prescribed medications. 27 years and 3 months later, I am still struggling with depression and all the side-effects of the prescribed medications. I have gone from 65 kg to 98 kg as my medication causes weight gain. My mental illness has ruined my physical health, education, career and relationships. I often wonder how my life would be if I had listened to my parents instead of my psychiatrist.
I will presume that your bipolar diagnosis was accurate. Had you ignored the diagnosis, you might have had some serious psychotic episodes or deeper, darker depression. It seems like people with depression or bipolar disorders do much better with medication than without.
Many people -- 10% to 15% of the population -- are clinically depressed. They exhibit the physical, emotional, and cognitive features of depression. No doubt about it, depression interferes with life. Lots of people muddle through it from year to year, but their lives would be better if they were free of depression. I was diagnosed with depression in my mid 40s, and medication helped me carry on. But I wasn't performing well a good share of the time.
The Radical Therapy Group (probably don't exist any more) had a good motto: "Therapy means change, not adjustment." Absolutely! But, change has to be possible within one's ability to bring the desired changes about. I wasn't able to effect those kinds of changes in my life until I retired early (at 63), and that did bring about a liberating change. Early retirement wrecked my finances, but it also lead to a happier life.
I often wish I had made different choices than the ones I made.
Don't we all! It's one thing to think the other toaster might have been a better choice; medical and career choices are a bigger deal. I made a series of choices at 18 that seemed like good ideas at the time, but were major errors. English Literature was not a bad choice for me, but teacher training was a disaster. Should I have stayed at my job in Boston for another year? Don't know; can't tell.
Some of my job choices also looked good at the time but blew up. Sex and relationships? There were some stunning-bad choices, and some very good ones! Religion? Been dithering over that for decades.
Excessive perseverating or ruminating on a decision seems to go with the territory of depression. And it's depressing all by itself. Antidepressants help, and cognitive behavioral therapy might help with that. So I've heard, anyway.
My choice was to let the raspberry plants in the garden increase. Their choice was to take over the whole yard. They are damned hard to get ride of!
I will presume that your bipolar diagnosis was accurate.
This is debatable. My parents think that I have recurrent depression. I have had many depressive episodes. I have never been manic. I may or may not have experienced hypomania - it is not clear. My parents wanted me to stay with them in Aberdeen and study Computer Science. I wish I had done that. My depression began on 29 September 1997, when I moved from Aberdeen to Dundee to go to medical school. My first symptom was insomnia which began on my first night in Dundee. When I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on 5 March 1998, my parents said to leave medical school and Dundee and return to Aberdeen to live with them and study Computer Science. I wish I had done that.
Excessive perseverating or ruminating on a decision seems to go with the territory of depression. And it's depressing all by itself. Antidepressants help, and cognitive behavioral therapy might help with that.
Antidepressants didn't help me. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, which I got in 2024, helped a little. EMDR, which I got in 2024, helped a lot. I am waiting to get Schema Therapy.
I am so sorry that you suffered, too. Ever tried building a time machine so you can go back in time and change the past? I tried, but it didn't work.
Reply to Truth Seeker No manic episodes? Not sure about hypomania? Maybe you are not. Don't know. Mania is unmistakable -- running from abnormally exuberant energy directed at odd projects to auditory hallucinations telling you to jump in front of a car. Hypomania might be fun for a while, but psychotic-level mania is an awful experience. So! Be glad you are not.
I imagine you have talked this over with your psychiatrist? Been rediagnosed?
Antidepressants don't work for you? Actually, there is evidence that they don't work all that well for a lot of people, apparently. I've taken several different kinds, and while they helped some, I was still more or less depressed, still functioning under par. Plus, we develop dependency on antidepressants--not addiction, just dependence. I've tried weaning my self off Effexor -- which has worked the best of all -- and I find the physical challenge too unpleasant. Stuck. Why take them at all?
We don't like being depressed, for one thing. Second, there aren't many alternatives. Beer is safe and effective when used as directed, but we only feel better for a couple of hours. Too much and things can go downhill rather fast. (Maybe you saw the comedy bit posted in the Shout Box about "Slightly Less Than Two Drinks"? It's on YouTube.)
Going back to the past to fix things is, of course, dangerous and extremely difficult to pull off without causing more problems. But, fantasy aside, if you could change your life to whatever you thought would lead to happiness, what would it be?
Let's limit your options to actually doable things! I might have been happier being born into a very liberal secular New York City Jewish family, rather than the very conventional Methodist family in rural Minnesota that I got. Nice idea but not possible.
I used to think that one could have a crappy job, but that after work one could have a fulfilling and interesting life -- in between supper and bed time. Sometimes that worked for a while. Mostly, the crappy job ruined the day and one just didn't feel like undertaking interesting and fulfilling activities at the end of the day. Twice I had a job which was fulfilling and interesting -- 8 years total out of 40 years in the work force. So, "Good Work" is a critical component of the therapy of change.
I first heard of EMDR quite a few years ago, but haven't read much about it. At first I thought it was some sort of esoteric quackery. But it isn't. Hope it works for you.
No manic episodes? Not sure about hypomania? Maybe you are not. Don't know. Mania is unmistakable -- running from abnormally exuberant energy directed at odd projects to auditory hallucinations telling you to jump in front of a car. Hypomania might be fun for a while, but psychotic-level mania is an awful experience. So! Be glad you are not.
I imagine you have talked this over with your psychiatrist? Been rediagnosed?
I was diagnosed with Bipolar Affective Disorder Type 2 on the 5th of March 1998, but my parents said that was a mistake. The diagnosis was changed to Ultra Ultra Rapid Cycling Cyclothymia. Then I had one auditory and one tactile hallucination on 30 January 2011 during a depressive episode. Then they changed the diagnosis to Bipolar Affective Disorder. I have never been manic. Whether I have been hypomanic or not is debatable. I have been depressed most of the time. The depth of the depression varies. Here is a mood scale:
[b]+5: Total loss of judgement, exorbitant spending, religious delusions or hallucinations.
+4: Lost touch with reality, incoherent, no sleep, paranoid and vindictive, reckless behaviour.
+3: Inflated self-esteem, rapid thoughts and speech, counter-productive simultaneous tasks.
+2: Very productive, everything to excess, charming and talkative.
+1: Self-esteem good, optimistic, sociable and articulate, good decisions and get work done.
0: Mood in balance, no symptoms of depression or mania.
-1: Slight withdrawal from social situations, concentration less than usual, slight agitation.
-2: Feeling of panic and anxiety, concentration difficult and memory poor, some comfort in routine.
-3: Slow thinking, no appetite, need to be alone, sleep excessive or difficult, everything a struggle.
-4: Feeling of hopelessness and guilt, thoughts of suicide, little movement, impossible to do anything.
-5: Endless suicidal thoughts, no way out, no movement, everything is bleak and it will always be like this.[/b]
I may have gone up to plus two on the mood scale, but it is not clear.
I have been down to minus five on the mood scale. Right now, I am at minus two. What about you?
if you could change your life to whatever you thought would lead to happiness, what would it be?
I would like to prevent all suffering, injustice, and death and make all living things forever happy. That would make me happy. I know it is not possible to do. What about you?
Twice I had a job which was fulfilling and interesting
What jobs were they?
EMDR is Eye Movement Desensitisation and Reprocessing. It is used to treat PTSD and CPTSD. I have CPTSD due to many traumatic experiences from age four onwards.
Right now I'm at 0. Back between 2000 and 2009 I was at a -2 and -3. I could interact with people and manage 'big picture' thinking OK, but was unable to manage detailed bureaucratic tasks like 'maintain detailed record keeping' and 'learn new benefit systems'. That's what led me to retire -- just couldn't deliver the expected performance. Medication was certainly a factor. It took maybe 3 years to return to something like normal.
In good times I bounced up to +1 or +2. I wasn't manic, but I sometimes took off on half-cocked projects which were doomed to failure.
The first job, after college, was working with college students who were getting failing grades. Some of the men didn't want to be in college (parent's choice) and some lacked basic study skills. It was basically a tutoring job. I also worked with faculty on developing and using media -- this was in 1971; what we were trying to do with difficulty then became routine later on with the internet and personal computers. That job lasted 7 years.
The next good job was 9 years later (1987) where I worked for 7 years at the Minnesota AIDS Project in AIDS prevention. It was basically education work -- getting the message out to men in bars, baths, adult bookstores, cruising parks, and the like to use condoms, and so on. The HIV epidemic got underway in the midwest a little later than on the coasts, so we didn't need to convince gay men about HIV being a threat. I'm gay and was pretty familiar with the sometimes pretty sleazy settings that I worked in. It was challenging and fulfilling work, a lot of it late night. After 4 years of that it was time for a new approach, so I switched to answering calls on the AIDSLINE. That was less exciting, and most of the calls were from the the worried well. Some of the calls presented serious problems and many were about absurd fears and weird behavior, so that was interesting.
I greatly admired men who were effective change agents and critics of the capitalist system. I wanted to be one of those radicals who fit that role, but I really didn't know how to do it -- still don't, for that matter. I was fairly good at the criticism part, but that's the easier half of the job. Getting people to actually think / behave differently (ie, become socialists) is far more difficult. I admired and liked Jeff Miller, a local leader in radical circles in Minneapolis. He was a great speaker / writer and was able to attract a circle of Marxists that endured for... something like 30 years. We published a monthly broadside (a fart in the windstorm) and held weekly classes. Many people passed through the classes, but few stayed on. Jeff endured decades of poverty and privation in order to devote himself to left-political work. It was a choice; he was smart and could have been quite successful at a job. But he chose the better part.
Another group of guys I admire have kept an anarchist bookstore in business (barely) for 40 some years. A lot of the men I admired have died of old age -- you know, you live long enough and the people you knew are dead. And others have moved on or moved away. So not many of these role models left.
I tried to be like Jeff, but didn't have the 'stick-to-it' drive that it takes, and I didn't want to live just a cut or two about sleeping on the streets or in vacant space to do it. I knew several oddball guys who were living that way; they were smart, inventive, free spirits. At least that's what it looked like. That was back in the 1970s and 80s. It would be much harder to pull off that kind of life now.
Reply to BC Thank you very much for answering my questions. You have lived an interesting life and have saved and improved many lives - well done for doing this.
On 24 December 2024, my wife and I got death threats from a Christian man. He smeared our window with blood and tried to knock down our front door. We called the police. He was arrested and was released the next day. We didn't press charges because we thought that was the right thing to do. Did we actually do the right thing?
From my perspective, you did the right thing. The man clearly has problems, and if he might have benefited from therapy, he most likely wouldn't have gotten it in jail--are you all still spelling it 'gaol'? On the other hand, it's possible that pressing charges would have made no difference in the outcome.
I've been robbed at knife point a couple of times. it was a bad experience, and there was no arrest in either case, so I didn't have to make a choice about pressing charges. Robbing people at knife point, gun point, or by way of beating them up is not acceptable in civil society, and is common enough to degrade the quality of life in the urban core, especially.
There is a steady hum of property crime and assault which doesn't quite rise to the felony level in which criminals can expect to do time in prison--too many crimes, police can't be present at most crime scenes as they unfold, and not enough cells to put people in. Juveniles aren't subject to the same punishments as adults, of course. Doing time in prison doesn't seem to improve people. If they were bitter and resentful before they were imprisoned, they are likely to be in a bad mood after release. Plus a criminal record and prison time makes it very difficult for convicted people to return to normal employed life. More crime is sometimes their only option.
We arrest and imprison a lot of people in the United States. Prisons are usually inhumane but still manage to be quite expensive. Small jails run by small cities can be just as bad in terms of quality as the big prisons are.
Jailing prostitutes, for instance, doesn't make sense. Maybe some prostitutes work voluntarily, but for many it's coerced labor or the prostitutes are victims of trafficking. They need an intervention and recovery program, not an arrest. Rather, arrest the pimp.
From my perspective, you did the right thing. The man clearly has problems, and if he might have benefited from therapy, he most likely wouldn't have gotten it in jail--are you all still spelling it 'gaol'?
Yes, he is an alcoholic and does things like this when he is drunk. We asked the police to help him to get on a program to treat his alcoholism and the police did that. I think the man is much better off getting treatment than being imprisoned in a jail for years. Gaol is an old-fashioned word for jail and is not commonly used here any more.
Comments (57)
Do you know why this happens? Are you haunted by previous errors?
Quoting Truth Seeker
What would be an example of this?
Quoting Truth Seeker
I've never really given it much thought. I just make choices and go with them. Sometimes I regret a decision, but not often. I'm trying to understand what kinds of choices typically lead to regret. Is it things like having children, getting married, or deciding where to live? But day-to-day choices dont seem to matter much, even if the outcome is disappointing. Maybe I just dont make very important choices very often.
Quoting Truth Seeker
Is this one you are mulling over, or a hypothetical?
The abortion one is just an example of a type of choice. And yes legalities should be considered or discarded, it depends on the individual if they want to go the legal route in their jurisdiction.
The point is choices should be made on the basis of yielding a positive outcome for oneself and others (if it affects others) this may sometimes mean making difficult choices in the beginning for better rewards later.
There are factors involved when making choices and these are often a matter of personal preference.
This happens because I am haunted by previous errors. If I had known how things would turn out, I would have chosen differently.
Quoting Tom Storm
I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. My parents told me to ignore the psychiatrist and not take the prescribed medications. I didn't listen to my parents. I trusted my psychiatrist and took the prescribed medications. 27 years and 3 months later, I am still struggling with depression and all the side-effects of the prescribed medications. I have gone from 65 kg to 98 kg as my medication causes weight gain. My mental illness has ruined my physical health, education, career and relationships. I often wonder how my life would be if I had listened to my parents instead of my psychiatrist.
Quoting Tom Storm
All of them and many more.
Quoting Tom Storm
This is a hypothetical.
How would I know what personal preference I should have? It's not always clear if the outcome would be positive for me and others. For example, I am on the NHS Organ Donation Register. I have been on it since May 1997. If I were to kill myself, it would end my constant suffering (due to Bipolar Disorder, CPTSD and chronic pain) and save the lives of those who need organs to live. So, should I kill myself? I am certain that my parents would be very upset if I killed myself. That's one of the reasons I haven't yet killed myself.
Matter of personal taste. You might have a preference of one thing over the other.
In terms of suicide of why you should stay alive it breaks down to practicality and its something out of my remit to advise on personal choices and circumstances.
My goal is to save and improve as many lives as possible. Obviously, suicide doesn't save my life, but it does end my suffering, which is a kind of improvement. Also, my donated organs will save the lives of others. Don't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one? Although my suicide would cause suffering to those who love me. Also, it would prevent any future good deeds by me, e.g. I have donated blood many times.
I very much like the approach set out by Terry Pratchett in Lords And Ladies. I've mentioned it a few times hereabouts. The witch Granny Weatherwax meets her one-time lover, the wizard Mustrum Ridcully. Ridcully is full of "might-have-beens"...
Pratchett, Terry. Lords And Ladies: (Discworld Novel 14) (Discworld series) (pp. 162-163).
Counterfactuals are recondite. You cant say if this didnt happen then that would have happened because you dont know everything that might have happened. In your case you can't say how things would have been had you followed your parent's advice, any more than Ridcully could be sure that if he had made a different decision he would have lived happily every after.
More likely, you would be equally discontent but with a different set of issues.
"You cant say if this didnt happen then that would have happened because you dont know everything that might have happened."
I agree with you. Wouldn't it have been better if I had never existed at all?
Well you can save and improve many lives by staying alive. This is obviously a sensitive topic and I feel Im not qualified to advise given your predicament, and whilst you view the termination of your life as selfless in terms of organ donation I feel its too much responsibility for you to take on by yourself. Instead cherish the good moments in the everyday and if practical with the help of pain reducing medication aim to reduce the pain your going through.
Well, if Granny Weatherwax is right, we can't possibly know what the world would be like if you never existed.
It just is as it is.
I suppose the upshot is that choices are about what happens next, not about what happened in the past.
Perhaps the hardest part of living with disability is the constant struggle to improve, to advocate for oneself, to find better ways of doing things. Every small step is so very hard. Sisyphus had it easy in comparison, at least he knew what would happen next.
Stuff that those not living with disability can never grasp.
Seems to me that the key is other people. Keep reaching out. And keep in mind that while you don't know what will happen next, sometimes things get better.
You are welcome to PM me.
Sartre said that man is condemned to be free. We, me you and others with these thoughts, feel this condemnation in this way. Life can seem a nightmare welter of decisions. Every moment a decision, both ones we make directly, and the many more we make passively, by omission.
There is a kind of horror to it. Our minds seem woefully inadequate to the task of computing the myriad of factors that are necessary to decide peven relatively trivial things. For instance, you mentioned choosing where to live. A good choice grants relative happiness, thriving, tranquility. Whereas a bad choice can cause discomfort, unease, unhappiness, a relative failure to grow and thrive. A weighty choice, never made with adequate information, nor with a mind capable of accurately extrapolating this information into the future.
And that is mundane and inconsequential. Consider how magnified the decisions of whether to marry, with whom, whether to have kids are. And these are still routine decisions on the scale of individual lives, which most of us must make. All these are lifetime inflection points. On one side lies one life, on the other, another life. One might indeed be vastly better, happier, more fulfilling. But which?
Welcome to the human condition.
While freedom is a curse, it is also life's greatest blessing, and I say this with total sincerity. Llfe truly wouldn't be living without freedom.
Much more to be said, but what do you think of that so far?
I think any choices you would have made in the past will have been overwhelmed by your condition.
I think you made the correct decision in trusting the psychiatrist even if the outcome was much worse than keeping off meds. (not that you will ever know)
It was an informed decision and the advice was made by professionals that see patients constantly and even give the best care available at the time.
Going forward, I think simple decision making on a micro level would be of benefit.
You say that your physical health, education, career and relationships have been ruined but you are where you are and decisions going forward are the only ones that matter.
You can start on your fitness from today. I'm in my 60s and whilst being relatively fit I wanted to improve. One goal was pressups. My first attempt was 5 and I collapsed. Every day I shower and the water takes a few minutes to warm up. Every day I now do pressups before the shower. I have improved but the lesson I learned was that I need to do it everyday and it is a little win.
I would see your career and education now would be to learn about nutrition and fitness and work at it slowly and incrementally and don't sweat any
You obviously love your parents and you can repay them by being a slightly better person than you were. That is mainly for you though.
Relationships is a hard one, especially the older you get but the relationship most important now is with yourself.
It seems I may have been wrong about the choice!
I have come through life almost scar free and I have lead an ordinary life but an enjoyable one.
I am fairly passive on most decisions as I see them as almost irrelevant but I think I was just very lucky. Which sometimes is important (even though I'm not superstitious in any way.
Thank you for your advice and your kindness.
Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts. I am so sorry that you, too, have the burden of regretting taking psychiatric medications.
I don't feel free. Do you feel free?
Here are some things I have done, currently do or will do even though I don't want to do them:
1. Breathe
2. Eat
3. Drink
4. Sleep
5. Dream
7. Pee
8. Poo
9. Fart
10. Burp
11. Sneeze
12. Cough
13. Age
14. Get ill
15. Get injured
16. Sweat
17. Cry
18. Suffer
19. Snore
20. Think
21. Feel
22. Choose
23. Be conceived
24. Be born
25. Remember some events
26. Forget some events
27. Die
I really want to go back in time and prevent all suffering, injustice, and death and make all living things forever happy, but I lack the capacity to do this.
I agree because I can't change the past. Thank you for sharing your experience and for your advice. I am exercising daily but it is hard. I have a healthy diet but my problem is that my medication causes weight gain. I am also trying to learn computer programming which I find hard because of my depression and because of my age. I am 47.
I am glad that you have had an easy life. I had many traumatic experiences from age 4 onwards. I am not going to go into the details of them because it is hard for me, and also I don't want to distress you and others.
Exactly. If you had access to more information you would have chosen differently. So the question is, could it have been at all possible for you to have that information when making your decision? If not, then you can't blame yourself. You made the best possible decision given the information you had at that moment. Now, we could talk about who might be to blame, if anyone, for your limited access to information (and it could be you that is to blame if you chose to live in a bubble) that would have allowed you to make a more informed decision, but that is a different topic.
Quoting Truth Seeker
Only if you were Caligula, Hitler or Stalin. But even then, every human is an example of the variety humans come in and permits us to bear witness the scope of human experience and existence that exists.
It's not just a matter of having access to information. It's also a matter of who to trust. I chose to trust a qualified and experienced psychiatrist over my parents because I thought that was the right thing to do. I can't even come off the 600 mg of Quetiapine XL I take per night because my brain has become dependent on this medication, and I can't function without it. I am depressed even though I take such a high dose.
Quoting Harry Hindu
I meant whether my nonexistence would have been better for me, compared to the life I have lived so far, which has been mostly suffering. Also, my nonexistence would have prevented all of my negative and positive impacts on others and the world e.g. ecological footprint. I am a Vegan, Egalitarian, Sentientist.
I hear ya bro. Most folks try to make the "best" choice, but those who have a significant fear of the "worst" outcome from making choices (typically manifested by second guessing) are best served by making choices that eliminate the worst outcome, even if it also makes the best outcome unlikely, settling for a likely "pretty good" outcome. Obviously you know yourself best, so you're in the position to determine what is driving you to second guess, but this is a very common situation.
Good luck.
A book that might help, "Prudence: Choose Confidently, Live Boldly."
More simply, Aristotle's advice would be to identify people who you believe make good choices, and emulate them. Also consult and associate with them if at all possible.
One way we improve is by identifying mistakes and then resolving to change. What do you see as your mistake in this instance? What is the thing you wish you had done differently?
Ideally you want to identify something that is more than surface-level. So you shouldn't look back and say, "I shouldn't have taken medication, and therefore I now resolve to not take any medications." Or even, "I shouldn't have taken psychiatric medication, and therefore I now resolve to not take psychiatric medication." You want to identify something deeper than that.
The case you give is tricky because you were stuck between the authority of a medical professional and the authority of your parents, both of which have a strong purchase on you. Ideally you should start with smaller changes and less difficult questions if you want to improve your ability to make choices. "Small steps," as they say.
Thank you very much for your advice.
Thank you very much for the book recommendation. I look forward to reading it.
Quoting Leontiskos
I wish I had listened to my parents instead of listening to my psychiatrist. Sadly, I can't change the past.
I wish you had had a better psychiatrist.
Thank you. CPTSD and Bipolar Disorder make a difficult combo to treat. I also wish I had better treatment than what I had. I have been on so many medications in the last 27 years and 3 months. I wish they had given me EMDR and Schema Therapy back in March 1998. I had EMDR in 2024 which helped. I am waiting to have Schema Therapy.
Be happy with making mistakes, based on moving forward with the best of your current knowledge.
With this in mind, I cannot fault myself for simply 'being wrong'. That's something everyone deals with and is amoral. Every time I do something that requires a choice above the trivial, I asses what information I have to hand, go and get information I know I can get, and make a decision based on this. Action ensues. The outcome will only be relevant to later decisions.
In this way, i've been both better at making choices/pulling triggers, and also better are adjusting my positions or actions based on prior results.
This means I am never "second guessing" myself because everything is done to a framework, applicable at all times.
Naturally one's appreciation of "confidence" can be skewed by a bipolar condition, so adjust for that.
I wasn't aware of that diagnosis when I commented, but I did see that you were taking responsibility for a situation you clearly had no responsibility for. What I could see from a few paragraphs of text, your psychiatrist should have been well aware of, and in not consulting and coming to an agreement with your parents (and yourself) about treatment they have set up this further conflict for you, and produced further guilt and shame, that I guess was evoked in you by earlier traumas. Shame on them, therefore! There is no way on earth that you in your distress could have resisted the influence of the socially authorised expert.
If you haven't, do watch this golden oldie; it is a Hollywood fantasy, but it's a good one. And good luck with what looks to be a much more positive way forwards.
Thank you very much for sharing your system for making choices. I love it.
This is a very interesting idea. Thank you very much for this advice.
I watched this movie many years ago. Thank you very much for reminding me of it and also for your insight.
Getting a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc opinion would also qualify as getting more information before making a decision. I always try to find natural remedies first and will seek alternate opinions if the first doctors are recommending pharmaceuticals or surgery first. They should always be a last resort. And another suggestion, children should listen to their parents more. Parents are not the ignorant, out of touch people that the media portrays to teens. Parents' motives are not typically related to money where a doctor's can be.
Quoting Truth Seeker
That is an unanswerable question, and best not to waste time contemplating it as it would just make your depression worse. There is always someone or some animal that is suffering more. It would be more productive to focus on ways to improve your life than to focus on things you have no control over or can never hope to answer.
I didn't seek a second opinion. I wish I had. Sadly, I can't change the past.
Quoting Harry Hindu
I agree. Thank you for your wise advice.
First I would like to state that I am in no way qualified to be saying this, however I do have a slight understanding and sympathy for your situation.
Looking through your words in this chat it seems like this one decision is one of your major regrets. Understandably, this one choice has changed your life in ways nobody can absolutely know.
However, today you are still alive, and that is nothing to be ashamed or regret over. As you have said it has been nearly thirty years since that one choice, do you believe you have not changed at all?
Does that one decision, that was possibly wrong, mean that all of your decisions to this day will always be as such?
Though I can't see into your mind, or experience the pain you have. I myself have also had some very self depressing thoughts, and while the effects might be nowhere close to yours they are also a hill that I will stand and defend.
How I came out of my own self depression I would say would be cowardice, doubt, and then bravery and recklessness. I always believed there was an answer out there that could save me.
As for my advice from experience, find one thing that you love, that you can't abandon no matter what. Once I found that thing, any self depressing thoughts became insults against that love.
It is always okay to start anew, to leave some of your mistakes behind.
(Everything prior was just me brainwashing myself into thinking OP needs help from my experience)
Now your main post was about making choices and second guessing yourself. You ask the best way to make choices.
Personally, I think making guesses based on your values is important. If it is merely a choice and not a question then chose so that you don't regret.
I also think this goes beyond simple desires. Obviously choosing something easy now could very likely become something you regret. It is also important to state that I don't follow the completely logical approach to life.
Make a choice that you don't regret choosing. For example, you could choose to gamble or not to. While to me whether you do it depends on the stakes, there might be a time where you choose either.
Would you regret not gambling, maybe. But you would definitely regret it once you lose.
On the other hand, if not gambling means you remain the same, and winning means you gain something that you were missing, then it might be a good choice to gamble. You don't regret wanting what you were aiming for. (It should be obvious , but not only actual gambling.)
The important thing in choice is that you are the one making it, and not others.
Thank you for your kindness and for sharing your experience with me, and for your advice.
I think this is a misunderstanding of freedom. Freedom does not mean freedom from the constraints of existence. That is death.
Think of it like a game of chess. You are not free to move pawns backwards. You are not free to move bishops sideways. The only way to do these things is to not play the game. And importantly, you are not free to win every game. But within the constraints of the game, you are afforded the freedom to choose any move you wish, so many choices that even the most powerful computer cannot explore them all.
Sometimes I feel free. Even when I do, I am still profoundly constrained by the environment, and by myself. Nonetheless, life affords a vast scope of choices. This can be agonizing, and wonderful.
I agree.
Each of us has strengths, and weaknesses; things we reflect on, and think we could have done better, but this just presents an opportunity to learn, and adapt, how we choose to respond to future situations. Imagine this:
Imagine the world was such that everyone, always, made the best possible, optimal decision for themselves, leading to no regret, or second-guessing - would our decisions and their outcomes hold the same weight and import to us? What I mean is this, there are many things that, I think I could have done better, and its through reflecting on these things that I feel I've become stronger, and better equipped to deal with the world, and this makes my experiences unique and valuable to me.
Because of all the suffering I have gone through and others have gone through as a result of my choice to trust my psychiatrist instead of my parents. I was a first-year medical student when I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. In September 2002, my psychiatrist instructed me not to attend clinical sessions during depressive episodes. I did what I was told, but the medical school expelled me on the 13th of February 2003 because I had not attended the clinical sessions. Listening to my psychiatrist didn't just cause 27 years of suffering and side effects, but it ruined my career as a doctor. I could go on and on about everything that has happened during the last 27 years, but I don't have the time to do that. Also, I don't think you have the time to read hundreds of thousands of words.
Quoting 013zen
Such a thing could only happen if everyone were all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful. How else could everyone make perfect choices? Since all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful beings don't exist, such a scenario will always be imaginary.
Quoting 013zen
That's fine. I am glad your life is not as full of suffering as mine has been and continues to be.
I actually responded because your story resonates with me - so please don't misunderstand. I also have BPD and other comorbid issues that have in fact caused me many, many, issues and have at times been hell for me to manage and deal with. I don't want to get into my personal life, too much, and all the trouble its caused me. I just want to say that, as someone that has and is dealing with, perhaps, similar issues (and many of them do sound similar) I'm sorry that you're struggling. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone, and that I truly believe that we can make the best of our lives.
Thank you for your kindness. BPD is short for Borderline Personality Disorder. Is that what you have, or do you have Bipolar Affective Disorder, which is shortened to BAD? We are all making the best of our lives, but that doesn't mean our lives are perfect. I want lives to be perfect for all living things. I want the absence of all suffering, injustice and death. I want all living things to be forever happy. I know I will never get what I want, but that doesn't mean what I want is not worth wanting.
I will presume that your bipolar diagnosis was accurate. Had you ignored the diagnosis, you might have had some serious psychotic episodes or deeper, darker depression. It seems like people with depression or bipolar disorders do much better with medication than without.
Many people -- 10% to 15% of the population -- are clinically depressed. They exhibit the physical, emotional, and cognitive features of depression. No doubt about it, depression interferes with life. Lots of people muddle through it from year to year, but their lives would be better if they were free of depression. I was diagnosed with depression in my mid 40s, and medication helped me carry on. But I wasn't performing well a good share of the time.
The Radical Therapy Group (probably don't exist any more) had a good motto: "Therapy means change, not adjustment." Absolutely! But, change has to be possible within one's ability to bring the desired changes about. I wasn't able to effect those kinds of changes in my life until I retired early (at 63), and that did bring about a liberating change. Early retirement wrecked my finances, but it also lead to a happier life.
Quoting Truth Seeker
Don't we all! It's one thing to think the other toaster might have been a better choice; medical and career choices are a bigger deal. I made a series of choices at 18 that seemed like good ideas at the time, but were major errors. English Literature was not a bad choice for me, but teacher training was a disaster. Should I have stayed at my job in Boston for another year? Don't know; can't tell.
Some of my job choices also looked good at the time but blew up. Sex and relationships? There were some stunning-bad choices, and some very good ones! Religion? Been dithering over that for decades.
Excessive perseverating or ruminating on a decision seems to go with the territory of depression. And it's depressing all by itself. Antidepressants help, and cognitive behavioral therapy might help with that. So I've heard, anyway.
My choice was to let the raspberry plants in the garden increase. Their choice was to take over the whole yard. They are damned hard to get ride of!
This is debatable. My parents think that I have recurrent depression. I have had many depressive episodes. I have never been manic. I may or may not have experienced hypomania - it is not clear. My parents wanted me to stay with them in Aberdeen and study Computer Science. I wish I had done that. My depression began on 29 September 1997, when I moved from Aberdeen to Dundee to go to medical school. My first symptom was insomnia which began on my first night in Dundee. When I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on 5 March 1998, my parents said to leave medical school and Dundee and return to Aberdeen to live with them and study Computer Science. I wish I had done that.
Quoting BC
Antidepressants didn't help me. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, which I got in 2024, helped a little. EMDR, which I got in 2024, helped a lot. I am waiting to get Schema Therapy.
I am so sorry that you suffered, too. Ever tried building a time machine so you can go back in time and change the past? I tried, but it didn't work.
I imagine you have talked this over with your psychiatrist? Been rediagnosed?
Antidepressants don't work for you? Actually, there is evidence that they don't work all that well for a lot of people, apparently. I've taken several different kinds, and while they helped some, I was still more or less depressed, still functioning under par. Plus, we develop dependency on antidepressants--not addiction, just dependence. I've tried weaning my self off Effexor -- which has worked the best of all -- and I find the physical challenge too unpleasant. Stuck. Why take them at all?
We don't like being depressed, for one thing. Second, there aren't many alternatives. Beer is safe and effective when used as directed, but we only feel better for a couple of hours. Too much and things can go downhill rather fast. (Maybe you saw the comedy bit posted in the Shout Box about "Slightly Less Than Two Drinks"? It's on YouTube.)
Going back to the past to fix things is, of course, dangerous and extremely difficult to pull off without causing more problems. But, fantasy aside, if you could change your life to whatever you thought would lead to happiness, what would it be?
Let's limit your options to actually doable things! I might have been happier being born into a very liberal secular New York City Jewish family, rather than the very conventional Methodist family in rural Minnesota that I got. Nice idea but not possible.
I used to think that one could have a crappy job, but that after work one could have a fulfilling and interesting life -- in between supper and bed time. Sometimes that worked for a while. Mostly, the crappy job ruined the day and one just didn't feel like undertaking interesting and fulfilling activities at the end of the day. Twice I had a job which was fulfilling and interesting -- 8 years total out of 40 years in the work force. So, "Good Work" is a critical component of the therapy of change.
I first heard of EMDR quite a few years ago, but haven't read much about it. At first I thought it was some sort of esoteric quackery. But it isn't. Hope it works for you.
I was diagnosed with Bipolar Affective Disorder Type 2 on the 5th of March 1998, but my parents said that was a mistake. The diagnosis was changed to Ultra Ultra Rapid Cycling Cyclothymia. Then I had one auditory and one tactile hallucination on 30 January 2011 during a depressive episode. Then they changed the diagnosis to Bipolar Affective Disorder. I have never been manic. Whether I have been hypomanic or not is debatable. I have been depressed most of the time. The depth of the depression varies. Here is a mood scale:
[b]+5: Total loss of judgement, exorbitant spending, religious delusions or hallucinations.
+4: Lost touch with reality, incoherent, no sleep, paranoid and vindictive, reckless behaviour.
+3: Inflated self-esteem, rapid thoughts and speech, counter-productive simultaneous tasks.
+2: Very productive, everything to excess, charming and talkative.
+1: Self-esteem good, optimistic, sociable and articulate, good decisions and get work done.
0: Mood in balance, no symptoms of depression or mania.
-1: Slight withdrawal from social situations, concentration less than usual, slight agitation.
-2: Feeling of panic and anxiety, concentration difficult and memory poor, some comfort in routine.
-3: Slow thinking, no appetite, need to be alone, sleep excessive or difficult, everything a struggle.
-4: Feeling of hopelessness and guilt, thoughts of suicide, little movement, impossible to do anything.
-5: Endless suicidal thoughts, no way out, no movement, everything is bleak and it will always be like this.[/b]
I may have gone up to plus two on the mood scale, but it is not clear.
I have been down to minus five on the mood scale. Right now, I am at minus two. What about you?
Quoting BC
I would like to prevent all suffering, injustice, and death and make all living things forever happy. That would make me happy. I know it is not possible to do. What about you?
Quoting BC
I didn't know about it. Thank you for telling me. I watched the video - it was funny.
Quoting BC
What jobs were they?
EMDR is Eye Movement Desensitisation and Reprocessing. It is used to treat PTSD and CPTSD. I have CPTSD due to many traumatic experiences from age four onwards.
Right now I'm at 0. Back between 2000 and 2009 I was at a -2 and -3. I could interact with people and manage 'big picture' thinking OK, but was unable to manage detailed bureaucratic tasks like 'maintain detailed record keeping' and 'learn new benefit systems'. That's what led me to retire -- just couldn't deliver the expected performance. Medication was certainly a factor. It took maybe 3 years to return to something like normal.
In good times I bounced up to +1 or +2. I wasn't manic, but I sometimes took off on half-cocked projects which were doomed to failure.
Quoting Truth Seeker
The first job, after college, was working with college students who were getting failing grades. Some of the men didn't want to be in college (parent's choice) and some lacked basic study skills. It was basically a tutoring job. I also worked with faculty on developing and using media -- this was in 1971; what we were trying to do with difficulty then became routine later on with the internet and personal computers. That job lasted 7 years.
The next good job was 9 years later (1987) where I worked for 7 years at the Minnesota AIDS Project in AIDS prevention. It was basically education work -- getting the message out to men in bars, baths, adult bookstores, cruising parks, and the like to use condoms, and so on. The HIV epidemic got underway in the midwest a little later than on the coasts, so we didn't need to convince gay men about HIV being a threat. I'm gay and was pretty familiar with the sometimes pretty sleazy settings that I worked in. It was challenging and fulfilling work, a lot of it late night. After 4 years of that it was time for a new approach, so I switched to answering calls on the AIDSLINE. That was less exciting, and most of the calls were from the the worried well. Some of the calls presented serious problems and many were about absurd fears and weird behavior, so that was interesting.
Quoting Truth Seeker
I greatly admired men who were effective change agents and critics of the capitalist system. I wanted to be one of those radicals who fit that role, but I really didn't know how to do it -- still don't, for that matter. I was fairly good at the criticism part, but that's the easier half of the job. Getting people to actually think / behave differently (ie, become socialists) is far more difficult. I admired and liked Jeff Miller, a local leader in radical circles in Minneapolis. He was a great speaker / writer and was able to attract a circle of Marxists that endured for... something like 30 years. We published a monthly broadside (a fart in the windstorm) and held weekly classes. Many people passed through the classes, but few stayed on. Jeff endured decades of poverty and privation in order to devote himself to left-political work. It was a choice; he was smart and could have been quite successful at a job. But he chose the better part.
Another group of guys I admire have kept an anarchist bookstore in business (barely) for 40 some years. A lot of the men I admired have died of old age -- you know, you live long enough and the people you knew are dead. And others have moved on or moved away. So not many of these role models left.
I tried to be like Jeff, but didn't have the 'stick-to-it' drive that it takes, and I didn't want to live just a cut or two about sleeping on the streets or in vacant space to do it. I knew several oddball guys who were living that way; they were smart, inventive, free spirits. At least that's what it looked like. That was back in the 1970s and 80s. It would be much harder to pull off that kind of life now.
So here I am.
On 24 December 2024, my wife and I got death threats from a Christian man. He smeared our window with blood and tried to knock down our front door. We called the police. He was arrested and was released the next day. We didn't press charges because we thought that was the right thing to do. Did we actually do the right thing?
From my perspective, you did the right thing. The man clearly has problems, and if he might have benefited from therapy, he most likely wouldn't have gotten it in jail--are you all still spelling it 'gaol'? On the other hand, it's possible that pressing charges would have made no difference in the outcome.
I've been robbed at knife point a couple of times. it was a bad experience, and there was no arrest in either case, so I didn't have to make a choice about pressing charges. Robbing people at knife point, gun point, or by way of beating them up is not acceptable in civil society, and is common enough to degrade the quality of life in the urban core, especially.
There is a steady hum of property crime and assault which doesn't quite rise to the felony level in which criminals can expect to do time in prison--too many crimes, police can't be present at most crime scenes as they unfold, and not enough cells to put people in. Juveniles aren't subject to the same punishments as adults, of course. Doing time in prison doesn't seem to improve people. If they were bitter and resentful before they were imprisoned, they are likely to be in a bad mood after release. Plus a criminal record and prison time makes it very difficult for convicted people to return to normal employed life. More crime is sometimes their only option.
We arrest and imprison a lot of people in the United States. Prisons are usually inhumane but still manage to be quite expensive. Small jails run by small cities can be just as bad in terms of quality as the big prisons are.
Jailing prostitutes, for instance, doesn't make sense. Maybe some prostitutes work voluntarily, but for many it's coerced labor or the prostitutes are victims of trafficking. They need an intervention and recovery program, not an arrest. Rather, arrest the pimp.
Yes, he is an alcoholic and does things like this when he is drunk. We asked the police to help him to get on a program to treat his alcoholism and the police did that. I think the man is much better off getting treatment than being imprisoned in a jail for years. Gaol is an old-fashioned word for jail and is not commonly used here any more.
Quoting BC
I am so sorry. I am glad you were not killed by the robbers.
Quoting BC
I don't think imprisoning people is a good solution. People need help to change their values and behaviours instead of just being locked up.
Quoting BC
I don't think there is anything wrong with sex work. It should be legalised and treated like any other career. It should not be criminalised.
Well, that's a relief.
Naw. Every age has its challenges and the free spirits are still out there fighting the good fight.