A new home for TPF
TPF is currently closed to new members as we prepare to move to a new software platform early next year. This move is essential for three reasons:
The groundwork is underway. I will have to be in the UK to set up a limited company for the forum, and as I won't be there until February, the new platform is scheduled to launch around March 2026.
For legal compliance and technical reasons, we will not be migrating the content from this site (the current one). Instead, we will start fresh, and the current site will become a permanent, read-only archive, which I will host myself.
A look at the new features
The new platform will introduce many improvements, including:
The new platform: Discourse
We will be using Discourse on their managed Pro plan (NOTE: not Discord, which is something else). I've chosen a managed solution again to ensure high performance and reliability, freeing me from server maintenance duties. Although this means I don't have low-level code access, Discourse offers a rich set of features and configurations. If there's a specific feature you'd like, let me know.
This upgrade represents a substantial investment in the forum's future. Running costs will be $100/month for Discourse hosting, in addition to the costs of setting up and running a company. Because of this, we'll need more subscribers to keep things going. TPF will remain free of advertising.
Anyway, I'm committed to making this transition as smooth as possible. Stay tuned for further updates.
- Better features and tools: To give us a more modern interface, robust moderation tools, and greater customization for everyone.
- A future-proof platform: To ensure the forum runs on thriving, actively maintained software.
- Legal security: To make the forum legally secure and sustainable, in line with new UK online safety laws.
The groundwork is underway. I will have to be in the UK to set up a limited company for the forum, and as I won't be there until February, the new platform is scheduled to launch around March 2026.
For legal compliance and technical reasons, we will not be migrating the content from this site (the current one). Instead, we will start fresh, and the current site will become a permanent, read-only archive, which I will host myself.
A look at the new features
The new platform will introduce many improvements, including:
- Customization: Switch between light and dark mode, change colour schemes, adjust font sizes, and customize your menus.
- Better moderation: Select specific reasons when reporting a post for faster, more effective moderation.
- Enhanced composing: Write posts in a composer window that remains in view while you navigate the thread, with an optional full-screen, distraction-free mode.
- Flexible formatting: Use Markdown, BBcode, or a visual (WYSIWYG) editor to write posts.
- Live chat: Join real-time chatrooms (The Shoutbox will return as a live chat).
- Email integration: Reply to discussions directly via email.
- Data control: Download an export of your posts and private messages.
- Emojis: Lots of searchable emojis.
- User Control: Mute other users by adding them to your "Ignore" list.
The new platform: Discourse
We will be using Discourse on their managed Pro plan (NOTE: not Discord, which is something else). I've chosen a managed solution again to ensure high performance and reliability, freeing me from server maintenance duties. Although this means I don't have low-level code access, Discourse offers a rich set of features and configurations. If there's a specific feature you'd like, let me know.
This upgrade represents a substantial investment in the forum's future. Running costs will be $100/month for Discourse hosting, in addition to the costs of setting up and running a company. Because of this, we'll need more subscribers to keep things going. TPF will remain free of advertising.
Anyway, I'm committed to making this transition as smooth as possible. Stay tuned for further updates.
Comments (48)
Understood. I appreciate that you will keep the site as a read-only archive. There are many memories here, and it would be a pity to lose them forever.
Quoting Jamal
I guess we have to wait until you set up the new TPF to create our profiles in this new software, right?
Quoting Jamal
I'm in. I hereby agree to the costs, investment and other features to keep things going.
Quoting Jamal
:up:
Existing members will have to sign up to join the new site. This is essential for legal compliance, because this is where you will agree to the new Acceptable Use Policy.
So far I don't have a definite plan for how to get existing members over to the new site. Probably I'll make a list of members who have been active over the past year or so, and send an email. Otherwise, there will probably be a permanent announcement on the archive site.
And yes, I think we should probably open up the new site, to allow anyone to sign up, though with admin approval to activate accounts.
Indeed :up:
Quoting javi2541997
Well, I've made progress in setting it up already, but unfortunately I can't open it up until everything is sorted out legally, I have a business bank account connected to the subscription system, and stuff like that.
Quoting javi2541997
Thank you for the support Javi. :up:
If I am not mistaken, I believe Discourse doesn't count the contribution of each member with the post number. However, everything will depend on how it is set up, I guess.
The number of posts will be visible on the user's profile, but not within discussions.
Incidentally, aside from the number of posts we will have other things like badges, trust levels, and upvotes, though I'm not sure how we'll use them yet.
Does this mean there will be an entirely new domain name as well? Or something like a https://thephilosophyforum.com/archive link that will point to the soon-to-be-archived forum we're on now?
This is a good domain name. A private browser window Google search for "online philosophy forum" shows TPF as #1 result for me. 10+ years of search relevance is worth keeping /utilizing as the access point for the new forum, if you ask me.
I want the sites to be separate so I'll transfer thephilosophyforum.com to the new site and use something else for the archive.
Interesting!
@180 Proof will be very happy!
, The Oldies have been there before - My count was over twenty thousand in the previous incarnation.
True. You were also in the old PF, so the transmigration is not something new to you, Banno. :wink:
Metempsychosis?
Yeah.
I don't get it. How could a live chat not function as a "community posting room"? Granted, I don't really know what it means.
et @Outlander
It is a great discovery to know how the shoutbox was born. :up:
I think it is one of the most relevant threads, and that most of us are fond of it because this is where we grow our online friendship. I understand Outlander's concerns, but we have to trust Jamal, and if he states that the shoutbox will still be the same but with a live chat function, then that is what will truly happen. However, if for different reasons, we are not satisfied, we can always ask Jamal to set it up in a different manner until it fits our preferences. I think we will have to be patient. The first months will be about getting used to the new platform. Yet it is very important to admit that some things will indeed be different because we are moving from PlushForums to another software. Like when we move to another neighbourhood.
Keep in mind one important thingwe are actually the ones who make the things. Whether the next version of the shoutbox is funny and entertaining is dependent on us, nothing else.
The Shoutbox won't be the same, but in my opinion it won't be worse. It never really belonged among the discussions, and this has caused problems.
Here are some screenshots of the Shoutbox, one expanded and one floating in the bottom right corner.
As you can see, it's pretty lonely there at the moment.
OK it will have a different aspect, but I do not see any problem at all. It seems we will be able to interact as we used to do, and the dark mode is very refreshing. The current light mode strains my eyes when I use it at night.
Perhapsanother different feature I am thinking ofeach thread would not be ordered with pages, as in PlushForums, but just a single page where all the comments and replies are posted. Then, if I wanted to reread a response from you, I would have to scroll until I found it; not go to page 261 as we do here.
Quoting Jamal
There are three Jamals. That's enough. :grin:
Yeah :grin:
Quoting javi2541997
Yep, no paging, either in chat or in regular discussions. But there are other ways of navigating within a discussion, and you can easily search within it too (for chat as well):
Cool! :cool:
First and foremost, it's not that big a deal. Though I feel impassioned enough to make this reply, as I do think, as someone who is not advanced, that is to say, not intimately acquainted with the ins and outs of higher philosophy, the Shoutbox is a joy to visit, peruse, and respond to. Probably an easy second favorite part of my experience with this website, behind reading threads, of course.
In my experience a traditional Shoutbox or "live chat" is generally at the very top of the forum index (though this canusuallybe altered and even "collapsed" or outright hidden per user preference) and is roughly 5 - 10 lines of text "tall". Though it can be scrolled up. This discourages all but simple pleasantries and spontaneous "what's everybody up to" or perhaps the occasional "thoughts on today's topic of XYZ?", which is wholly sufficient, sure..
But what about @jorndoe's ever popular news updates? These take up a good amount of screen real estate in the context of a live chat that encourages more spontaneity thus encourages more "fun" or "social" or otherwise "unsubstantial" replies.
As it is now, sometimes the Shoutbox takes a few days to reach a new page (10 replies), sometimes it creates more than one page in 15 minutes. From my experience live chat permanently truncates a certain number of older replies based on however many new replies are made. It's nice to be able to go back and see what was said a day or two ago.
Again, it's not that big a deal. Just my 2 cents on the matter. Which a mod did agree with as far as making something of the sort, I might add. It seems like a 2 second thing you can make or not make at any time so again try and not read too far into it.
I actually only just realized that you can search within a discussion here on PlushForums, I mean without going to the Advanced Options page. Doh!
See the above. Chatrooms can be expanded to fill the main page panel.
Quoting Outlander
We can configure this. Right now I've got it saving the chat messages forever.
:up:
Out of curiosity, why did you opt out of your former idea of going with Communiteq hosting?
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Also, "form and content in philosophy," I would suggest "zen mode reading" (and not just composing), where one can devote their entire screen to the topic at hand (example). Although I think Discourse allows this modification on a user level by default...?
This is good timing given the way that Chrome Manifest V3 has killed 's extension (which is nevertheless still temporarily available in Brave, Edge, Vivaldi, and probably some others).
I want to say it will be better, and will more properly distinguish the chat from the forum.
It's also worth noting that once web pages and forums became asynchronous the distinction between live vs. non-live chat was largely superseded. Older forum software which was not asynchronous (and required a page re-load after submitting a post or PM) is now gone. It was that page load that made it feel "non-live." Of course, that model was nice insofar as it felt more "long form" (like sending a letter), but the current Shoutbox is this weird amalgam between short-form and long-form media. An instant message style UI would simply be better for the TPF Shoutbox (although the non-paginated Discourse format is already more "live" than a paginated format). It would also help discourage short-form bleed into the main forum.
Relatedly, I would propose time limits on editing. The perpetual editing of TPF leads to careless composition, in my opinion.
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Quoting Jamal
You can, but the search is wonky. It isn't thread-indexed, but rather functions via a search on common words in the thread title. So it will return results for any thread with similar titles. There are other problems too, such as the fact that threads containing special characters are unsearchable, and users with special name formats are not present in the mentions dropdown.
Thank you for all of your time and talent that you have generously given to the current (and future) ThePhilosophyForum.
I say this in response to @Outlander, who is concerned that the Shoutbox as we know it will necessarily disappear with the introduction of a live chatbox. I would think (or suggest) that if there were a desire to start a thread that was lounge-like and not chat-like, that could be done?
If the two turned out the same, there'd be no need for both, but if there were an important difference, maybe have both, but that to be determined as we go along.
During the transition, is keeping the email info current critical to rolling over to a new account? I have just have been relying on messages once signed in to communicate.
Fair question.
I'm sure Communiteq is good but I think we're better off long-term with Discourse.org. My strategy is to go with the official premium product and see if we can afford itwe can always move to Communiteq or self-hosted later on if it proves to be too much. But I don't see why we couldn't cover $100/month. We've just been too relaxed about subscriptionsif we'd made a bigger deal about it I'm sure we could have got more members to subscribe.
This is a serious website and we want it to keep going for a long time. It deserves the real thing, not just a cheaper third party alternative. I realize this might seem shallow or impressionistic but I think it's significant nonetheless. Discourse.org seems like the professional option.
On Discourse.org we're dealing with the people who develop the software. They know what they are doing. Updates and plugin compatibility and what-have-you are handled by those who know the code most intimately. Support is fast and definitive, and the service is extrememely reliable.
It also has better performance due to differences in their server infrastructure, apparently.
Incidentally, I tried NodeBB for a couple of weeks and XenForo for a couple of days, and some other more Enterprisey things like circle.so. I was almost ready to go with NodeBB but then I tried Discourse again and the experience was substantially better than NodeBB.
Quoting Leontiskos
I can't see this functionality anywhere but I just tried the Firefox reader-view and it worked fine, so I presume other browsers can achieve the same thing. Anyway look:
When the sidebar is collapsed it's pretty distraction-free, no?
Quoting Leontiskos
Yes, good points. The difference is partly in how the functionality is presented: in the long-form discussion, the big serious composer window is obviously for long posts, whereas it's just a small bare-bones textbox in live chat. Also we can implement minimum post length in the discussions.
Quoting Leontiskos
Yes, I'll be looking into that. I might make it subsciber-based. I'm pretty sure it can be implemented in Discourse anyway.
Quoting Leontiskos
Yeah, the search here is seriously defective.
:cool: :up:
Quoting Paine
You can use a new email address at the new site, and you can change your email address here as well if you like.
Fear not. I will pretty much be with you till death do us part. Or, until something else happens, like bankruptcy and homelessness, having both hands cut off by Islamic extremists, or being run over by a gang of electric tricycle-riding senior citizens, putting me in a coma.
Well, I'm planning on having a Lounge at the new place too, although I want it to be different:
NOTE: This is not final. It's also a bit confusing because it says "chat," and there's already live chat for that.
Otherwise, I'd like to know precisely what "lounge-like and not chat-like" means. For example, some people might not like chat because the textbox is so small: they might want a large box to compose a wee story with multiple paragraphs. They might be unaware that you can do paragraphs in chat using shift+return. In Discourse the textbox gets bigger when you do that. It never gets as big as the composer in the long-form discussions, but big enough for most Shoutbox posts, I would think.
Anyway, the community will decide. If a long-form discussion in the Lounge turns into an effective Shoutbox I might consider letting that continue. But I'm heavily into turning the Shoutbox into a chatroom so I'll resist such developments.
I didn't expect otherwise, dear friend. We are going to talk a lot about Spain's mussels in the next home/chapter of TPF. I promise!
Opera browser has a forum and it is set up on NodeBB. I had a look at it because I wanted to solve some doubts. I'm glad you chose Discourse because NodeBB is a bit [s]plain[/s] dull.
Yes, I had a look at that when I was researching NodeBB. To be fairand because I'm reflexively argumentativedull isn't necessarily bad for a forum, and NodeBB can be customized extensively. What matters more to me is how smoothly everything works. Discourse in my opinion just runs better, always looks nicer due to better all-round design and compatibility of themes and colour schemes, and setup is less of a struggle.
I now understand why phpBB is the main software used for the forums in my country. :razz:
Even if they're on old-fashioned software I think we should celebrate the continuing existence of independent discussion forums. Not everyone wants to discuss everything on Reddit.
Had some problem receiving emails from this site when changing passwords. If the move over to the new site requires an email invite for the current account, what happens if it fails?
Wouldn't there be an email list for all current members? So that taking that list into approved members for the new site will work and when signing up the email is already registered on an approved list there.
Meaning, using the email you registered on this site will let you into the door of the new site when registering.
And if there are any trouble, the new site should have a way to contact moderators if there are any trouble transferring over.
Also, what happens to stuff hidden on this site from people not logged in? Like the short stories? If there's stuff like that disappearing from view, maybe that should be moved over to the new site?
It won't be invitation-only and you'll be able to just go to the site and sign up yourself. I'll be making an announcement when it's open for new sign-ups. As I say, around March.
Quoting Christoffer
It's essential that all users of the new site have read and explicitly agreed to the new Acceptable Use Policy. New users confirm that when they sign up. So there won't be any pre-approved accounts.
Quoting Christoffer
Since I have to write some code that turns the existing site into a static site (based on the data export), I can make everything visible (obviously not private messages).
EDIT: Actually you'll need to verify your email when you sign up. If emails from info@thephilosophyforum.com are not reaching you, that will be an issue.
Absolutely--I dislike Reddit, by the way.
I really don't know yet, so I think we probably just have to let things develop and see. I guess what I think of when I think of a chatbox is an ongoing text group conversation, where the comments are brief and move back and forth quickly. That does describe the Shoutbox as it currently exists, although the comments can become longer and more involved, sometimes being used as a place to test out discussions as opposed to starting a thread. It's the longer conversations I wonder if will get lost under a chatbox feature. But, as you're describing the chatbox, it sounds like it might not have the limitations I've brought up.
The role of the Shoutbox has been discussed in the past (as in putting it on the main page versus relegating it to the Lounge where it had to be searched out), with some seeing it as an important feature to build and maintain community and others maybe seeing it as too much a diversion from real philosophy. I fall obviously into the former group, and so as long as the new site maintains that, it's really not that important how it looks and feels.
I also know that nothing is ever set in stone and that if something isn't working we can always discuss it later and figure it out. The Shoutbox as it currently exists was actually a work around after we lost the chatbox feature available under the old software. Click on the Shoutbox and go to the first page and you'll see a discussion of how we were trying to create what we lost.
I also thought the layout from the old site was better in certain ways (although it had countless bugs and unreliability problems) because it showed the categories and the posts by recency by each category and not just everything at once. What happens under our current system is that if 10 people come up with new religion posts (for example), the main board is overwhelmed with that and it looks like that's the ony thing being discussed. If posts are divided by category, that doesn't happen because you can just not pay attention to those categories you're not interested in. I don't know if the new software addresses that or not though.
I've made the home page of the new site show topics from all categories ordered by most recent, just like here. But unlike here, if you go to the "All categories" page the categories are ordered by most recentso that page would fit what you'd like to see as the home page (Philosophy of Religion would show at the top but wouldn't overwhelm the page). Personally I wouldn't want that as the home page. Maybe I'll do a poll.
On the old site I always went to /latest or whatever it was, which was the same as our home page here.
Anyway in Discourse it's all configurable.
I like how it's implemented here. There are topics that don't interest me and are an eyesore, but I go into them and learn something new or interesting. That's great for me.
On the other hand, could you tell me if there will be a way to fine-tune the settings to hide topics I don't want to see (in case I want to create an echo chamber and not know what people think about certain things?)
I also wanted to suggest, if appropriate, adding more sectionsfor example, metaepistemology or axiologyso that I could narrow my choices a bit more.
Yes, on the new platform you'll be able to mute topics and whole categories, so that they don't appear on the /latest page.
Quoting Astorre
We can always make subcategories but I don't think those ones would be used enough to merit that.